Episode 46: Susan Landers - Attention Working Moms and Healthcare Practitioners, Prevent that Burnout!

1
00:00:07,100 --> 00:00:10,400
Hello, beautiful humans.
Welcome to another episode of

2
00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:12,800
Role Models.
You see conversations with

3
00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,400
beautiful humans.
I'm Jennifer Norman founder of

4
00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,800
the human Beauty movement and
your host, this podcast thrives

5
00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,100
on your support.
So if you like what you hear,

6
00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:25,100
follow us, radis reviewers and
share this episode with everyone

7
00:00:25,100 --> 00:00:27,900
across your network.
Now, today we're going to talk

8
00:00:27,900 --> 00:00:32,600
about a very important topic.
It is burnout so many of us are

9
00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,300
parents who take care of others.
But oftentimes we forget to take

10
00:00:36,300 --> 00:00:39,500
care of ourselves.
My guest today is dr.

11
00:00:39,500 --> 00:00:44,800
Susan Landers Susan is an author
a speaker, a mom of three and

12
00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:49,400
neonatologist with over 34 years
experience in neonatal

13
00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,400
Intensive, Care Medicine.
Susan suffered through a

14
00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:56,300
difficult midlife period that
caused burn out after the birth

15
00:00:56,300 --> 00:00:59,500
of her third child.
And this propelled her to make a

16
00:01:00,100 --> 00:01:02,800
Choice which included a career
change?

17
00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,300
She has recently released her
new book so many babies.

18
00:01:06,300 --> 00:01:10,400
My life balancing a busy medical
career and motherhood.

19
00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,000
Welcome Susan.
Thank you, Jennifer.

20
00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,700
It's a pleasure to be here,
talking with you.

21
00:01:15,700 --> 00:01:18,900
It's a pleasure to host you.
Now, you're a doctor, you've

22
00:01:18,900 --> 00:01:22,300
worked full-time for over 30
years in a demanding role.

23
00:01:22,300 --> 00:01:26,700
And you raised three, kids tell
us what that was like, oh, well,

24
00:01:26,700 --> 00:01:30,900
it was always a challenge and I
love my Medical career.

25
00:01:30,900 --> 00:01:34,000
I became a doctor and a
neonatologist before.

26
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,900
I got married, and became a mom.
And so my identity was quite a

27
00:01:37,908 --> 00:01:42,200
bit wrapped up in being a NICU
doctor, and I loved that.

28
00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,800
I loved working with sick babies
and mothers and babies.

29
00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:50,000
And then when I got married and
we decided to have children, I

30
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,600
thought I'll be a perfect
mother.

31
00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:56,100
I'm a pediatrician.
I know everything about kids

32
00:01:56,100 --> 00:02:00,400
which was not true.
I learned a lot as I read a

33
00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:05,100
long, we had three children
within the first seven years and

34
00:02:05,100 --> 00:02:08,699
I literally flew by the seat of
my pants.

35
00:02:08,699 --> 00:02:11,800
Working full-time, had a nanny
at home.

36
00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,900
We were very fortunate to be
able to afford that and my

37
00:02:14,900 --> 00:02:19,300
husband was also pediatrician,
so he was very helpful, but you

38
00:02:19,300 --> 00:02:24,600
still have to learn how much
work you can do and how much you

39
00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:29,400
can protect your home life and
does the stress from work spill

40
00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,600
over.
Into raising children.

41
00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,000
And then there's the, what do
your children?

42
00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,300
Throw at you?
You know, my son had some

43
00:02:37,300 --> 00:02:41,800
difficult years in preschool and
kindergarten, you know, things

44
00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:46,200
like that, that you face as you
become a mother, I think as we

45
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:51,100
have more children to and we're
still working each child brings

46
00:02:51,100 --> 00:02:55,000
out different strengths and
different weaknesses in us.

47
00:02:55,100 --> 00:02:59,200
So I'd like to talk about
spending the first Seven Years

48
00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,800
Learning.
How to be a good mom and I'm not

49
00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:07,500
sure I was every minute.
Sometimes I work 24 hour shifts,

50
00:03:07,700 --> 00:03:11,800
and there's no easy way to be
away from your children for that

51
00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,600
many hours.
Even if your husband's there or

52
00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,900
Nanny's there.
Sometimes I brought a lot of mom

53
00:03:17,900 --> 00:03:21,400
guilt home with me.
Sometimes I brought a short

54
00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,200
temper and anger home with me.
If a case wasn't going

55
00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,900
correctly, or there were some
difficult parents and so, in the

56
00:03:28,900 --> 00:03:33,100
beginning of my career, Career.
I literally learned along with

57
00:03:33,100 --> 00:03:36,300
my friends, how to be a working
mother.

58
00:03:36,300 --> 00:03:39,900
I was fortunate.
I had a lot of other doctor

59
00:03:39,900 --> 00:03:43,100
friends who had children at the
same time.

60
00:03:43,100 --> 00:03:47,000
We saw each other at work.
We bounced ideas off each other.

61
00:03:47,100 --> 00:03:50,700
It was so wonderful to have that
support of other women.

62
00:03:50,700 --> 00:03:55,300
Going through exactly the same
challenges we move jobs.

63
00:03:55,300 --> 00:03:59,300
We move to a different city, my
husband got a great job offer

64
00:03:59,300 --> 00:04:03,700
with a Sharon and raised, and my
job was just okay.

65
00:04:03,700 --> 00:04:07,500
We had three little kids.
My youngest was still nursing,

66
00:04:07,500 --> 00:04:09,900
and this is the period of my
life.

67
00:04:09,900 --> 00:04:14,000
I had just turned 40.
So new job, three kids, turned

68
00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:18,800
40, new house, new schools.
Every one of the life stressors,

69
00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,900
you can have.
And I burned out, I became

70
00:04:22,900 --> 00:04:25,500
depressed.
I was still working, still

71
00:04:25,500 --> 00:04:30,600
taking care of my kids, but it
was a very unpleasant time Ntly

72
00:04:30,700 --> 00:04:34,800
friend of mine recognized that I
was acting depressed.

73
00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,700
You know, wasn't sleeping, I
wasn't eating, I was in a bad

74
00:04:37,700 --> 00:04:42,100
mood, all the time, all of the
signs of Oppression but my baby

75
00:04:42,100 --> 00:04:45,400
was 12 months old so I didn't
really think it was postpartum

76
00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,400
depression.
I thought it was all the stress

77
00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:53,600
from my work and the move and
being a mom to three kids.

78
00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:59,300
So I started therapy with a good
psychiatrist who helped me sort

79
00:04:59,300 --> 00:05:04,200
through All of my issues, I will
never forget the day that I

80
00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,900
described to him.
My life was like person on the

81
00:05:08,900 --> 00:05:14,600
stage of Ed Sullivan Show, who
runs around and spend sticks,

82
00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,900
and plates balance on the
spinning sticks, and you add

83
00:05:18,900 --> 00:05:22,200
more sticks, and you spend more
plates and you run around and

84
00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,000
you keep your plates from
wobbling and you're just running

85
00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,400
from plate to play, and you're
just spinning more plates and

86
00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,400
you're just frantic and Hectic
and I described to him, that was

87
00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,700
my life, because that's how I
imagined it.

88
00:05:34,700 --> 00:05:38,500
I was just going from child to
child, to work, to husband to

89
00:05:38,500 --> 00:05:41,200
school, to clinical research or
whatever.

90
00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:46,000
And he looked at me and he said,
why don't you take down some of

91
00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:51,000
the plates and I thought, oh my
gosh, that's amazing.

92
00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,600
I mean, literally it was an
epiphany when he said that and

93
00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,100
over the next six months, he
helped me to sort through the

94
00:05:58,100 --> 00:06:02,700
plates, the issues.
Was most important was not, what

95
00:06:02,700 --> 00:06:06,100
was I going to leave behind?
Because I was doing too much.

96
00:06:06,500 --> 00:06:09,800
I literally was trying to be
everything to everybody.

97
00:06:09,900 --> 00:06:12,600
Yeah.
I think a lot of working moms

98
00:06:12,700 --> 00:06:16,000
career moms especially fall into
that trap.

99
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:21,100
So used to achieving and
succeeding in our careers that

100
00:06:21,100 --> 00:06:24,400
we think we're supposed to be
perfect in every aspect of Our

101
00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,200
Lives.
I've learned that nobody else

102
00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,700
was going to take care of me,
but me.

103
00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:31,900
Me.
I mean, my husband cared and my

104
00:06:31,900 --> 00:06:35,400
friends cared, of course, but
I've learned that I had to

105
00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:39,400
exercise running was my thing
for a long, long time.

106
00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,500
I learned that I had to talk
with friends.

107
00:06:42,500 --> 00:06:46,900
I learned that I had to have
some time off this working 50 or

108
00:06:46,900 --> 00:06:51,800
60 hours a week is crazy.
I learned that my children were

109
00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:56,500
allowed to say, Mom, you're
really grouchy today and we

110
00:06:56,500 --> 00:07:01,200
talked a lot about my
controlling, my Anger and my

111
00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:05,900
yelling at my kids, when I was
tired after a long night on

112
00:07:05,900 --> 00:07:10,800
call, so I did lots of things to
learn how to take care of

113
00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:14,700
myself.
While I was being a mother to

114
00:07:14,700 --> 00:07:18,200
three busy children.
And during that same period of

115
00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:22,700
time, I learn.
I think what it means to be a

116
00:07:22,700 --> 00:07:25,600
good enough mother.
I mentioned when I started, I

117
00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,400
wanted to be a perfect mom and
discovered that was impossible.

118
00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:30,900
You can't.
I work full-time and be a

119
00:07:30,900 --> 00:07:35,400
perfect mother but being a good
enough mother I think is about

120
00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:40,200
working at a job in which your
fulfilled and that gives you

121
00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,800
pleasure that gives you
satisfaction and and feeling

122
00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:49,400
worthwhile and also having time
to be a mother but not a

123
00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:51,000
full-time.
Mom, a mom.

124
00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:55,400
Who's gone some of the time and
that trade-off means your kids

125
00:07:55,500 --> 00:07:59,100
do not have you all the time.
They learn to be a little more

126
00:07:59,100 --> 00:08:01,900
independent.
They learned that you have other

127
00:08:01,900 --> 00:08:06,500
priorities not just them and so
that's what I think a good

128
00:08:06,500 --> 00:08:11,600
enough mother is, I think it's a
working mom who allows herself

129
00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:16,100
to do various things.
Not just be a mother but also

130
00:08:16,100 --> 00:08:19,500
have a career.
Have a job, have a relationship,

131
00:08:19,500 --> 00:08:23,500
have her own friends and so it
was during my midlife that I

132
00:08:23,500 --> 00:08:27,400
learned really how to be a good
enough mother and felt that I

133
00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:31,000
really was that.
And so now You provide coaching

134
00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,100
and mentorship on how to prevent
burnout.

135
00:08:34,100 --> 00:08:36,600
Can you talk about the
difference between what it means

136
00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:38,799
to be burnt out versus stressed
out?

137
00:08:38,900 --> 00:08:42,100
Oh yeah, there's a lot of
burnout among Healthcare

138
00:08:42,100 --> 00:08:45,800
Providers right now.
And the pandemic, really dealt a

139
00:08:45,808 --> 00:08:50,000
bad deal to all the health care
providers, especially those

140
00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,100
hospital-based.
But office space to because of

141
00:08:53,100 --> 00:08:57,400
the stresses, all the sick,
people inadequate bed, space,

142
00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:02,900
vaccine conflicts are Mets over
medicines and vaccines.

143
00:09:02,900 --> 00:09:08,100
They were given not a late too
much work but also too much

144
00:09:08,100 --> 00:09:12,200
emotional burden at work.
It wasn't just taking care of

145
00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,600
patients who were dying.
It was taking care of too many

146
00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,600
patients and not having anything
to do about it.

147
00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:24,000
So, Healthcare, burnout, creates
physical exhaustion, from too

148
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:29,600
many hours of work, emotional
overwhelm from issues.

149
00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:34,800
It's ethical issues cases that
don't go well, death and dying,

150
00:09:34,900 --> 00:09:39,600
those sorts of things and when a
healthcare provider recognizes

151
00:09:39,700 --> 00:09:43,600
physical exhaustion and being
emotionally overwhelmed, they

152
00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:48,300
tend to detach and depersonalize
from their patients.

153
00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:52,800
I noticed at once when I was
much older in my 60s, I felt

154
00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:57,500
like I was sort of not as
involved with my patients and I

155
00:09:57,500 --> 00:09:59,700
wasn't as involved with my
colleagues.

156
00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,300
There.
But the crowning blow to

157
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,000
healthcare provider burnout,
burnout that Physicians and

158
00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:10,200
nurses have is when you feel
you're no longer making a

159
00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,200
difference.
When I felt like I was just

160
00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,400
going through the motions.
I wouldn't making a difference,

161
00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,400
nothing mattered.
That's when I knew that I had

162
00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,800
burned it and so that's a
classic case of burnout for a

163
00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,800
physician or nurse.
I think what working mothers are

164
00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:33,100
experiencing is the feeling that
That they can't be everything to

165
00:10:33,100 --> 00:10:35,900
everybody.
They are grouchy with their

166
00:10:35,900 --> 00:10:38,200
kids.
They might yell at their kids,

167
00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:42,500
their relationship with their
husband, or partner is strain.

168
00:10:42,500 --> 00:10:47,000
They are not relying on their
friends, they're drinking more

169
00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,500
wine.
I've been there, they're not

170
00:10:49,500 --> 00:10:52,100
exercising, they're not
sleeping.

171
00:10:52,100 --> 00:10:57,400
Well, there may be working too
many hours if they're a manager,

172
00:10:57,500 --> 00:10:59,600
they're worrying about their
co-workers.

173
00:11:00,100 --> 00:11:04,800
And whether they're doing okay,
managers tend to worry a lot

174
00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:09,300
about schedules of their people
and accommodate other people,

175
00:11:09,300 --> 00:11:11,700
instead of taking care of
themselves.

176
00:11:11,700 --> 00:11:15,200
I don't know if you have to be a
perfectionist to get working

177
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:20,300
mother burnout, but you sure
have to try to do everything for

178
00:11:20,300 --> 00:11:23,800
everybody, whether it's your
children, your husband, your

179
00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:28,200
job, not seeing your friends,
not taking care of yourself,

180
00:11:28,300 --> 00:11:33,100
working mother burnout.
Out shows, very similar to

181
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:38,000
physician burnout the Mom.
Feels like she just can't deal

182
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,800
with her kids.
She just can't deal with that

183
00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,300
job.
She hates, she just can't deal

184
00:11:43,300 --> 00:11:46,200
with her husband's relationship
with her.

185
00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,700
And so it's a sense of being
overwhelmed by all the things in

186
00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:55,300
your life that you're challenged
with all the things, you know,

187
00:11:55,300 --> 00:12:00,000
the pandemic asked women to do
all the household chores Work

188
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:04,200
from home and home school.
Their kids remotely for two

189
00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:09,400
years working mothers had to do
all that, that is ownerís and I

190
00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,500
think that anybody that made it
through that and looks back and

191
00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:18,300
says, wow, that was awful.
She's got my respect because it

192
00:12:18,300 --> 00:12:22,900
was an awful time.
It was a lot of stress and some

193
00:12:22,900 --> 00:12:26,700
mothers who are still working
full-time are burnout is a

194
00:12:26,708 --> 00:12:29,600
result of it?
Yes, I actually read a statistic

195
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,000
from From mental health
Americas, 2022, mind, the

196
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,300
workplace report.
So this is recent that 80% of

197
00:12:36,300 --> 00:12:40,000
employees agree that the stress
from work, affects their

198
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:44,200
relationships with family,
friends, and co-workers, and 47

199
00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,500
percent of Physicians reported
feeling burns out last year,

200
00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:50,200
which is up from a rate of 42
percent in 2020.

201
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,700
So numbers are getting worse.
They are they, are you mentioned

202
00:12:54,700 --> 00:12:58,000
this stress from work?
And I noticed when I felt

203
00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:02,700
burnout as a It was long before
the pandemic, but there were

204
00:13:02,700 --> 00:13:06,400
difficult cases.
There was a chaotic NICU, it was

205
00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,500
busy, lots of triplets, lots of
twins, maybe a set of difficult

206
00:13:10,500 --> 00:13:13,900
parents, maybe too many
emergency deliveries.

207
00:13:13,900 --> 00:13:17,100
It was too much stress in the
workplace.

208
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:21,600
Sometimes too much noise.
Sometimes too many interruptions

209
00:13:21,700 --> 00:13:26,700
sometimes chaotic management and
so even people who aren't in

210
00:13:26,700 --> 00:13:32,300
healthcare can be stuck in.
A workplace, that's too loud.

211
00:13:32,300 --> 00:13:35,600
That's two main that stew
critical.

212
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:40,300
That is without teamwork where
your manager doesn't care about

213
00:13:40,300 --> 00:13:43,600
you.
I think any workplace can be

214
00:13:43,700 --> 00:13:47,600
perverted by folks with bad
attitudes.

215
00:13:47,700 --> 00:13:52,700
Especially if somebody doesn't
know what a working mother is

216
00:13:52,700 --> 00:13:55,800
going through.
If you have a manager, that's a

217
00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,600
man who does not have children
or his children.

218
00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,500
Grown or he's divorced.
And his wife takes care of the

219
00:14:03,500 --> 00:14:07,200
kids.
That manager may not appreciate.

220
00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,400
Why you need to get to the
school at 2 p.m. on Thursday for

221
00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:17,100
a parent-teacher conference that
manager may not realize why you

222
00:14:17,100 --> 00:14:20,800
want to do two days a week
remote from home and not every

223
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:25,200
day in the office.
So I think that the workplace

224
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,600
characteristics also play into
working mother burnout.

225
00:14:29,700 --> 00:14:32,700
Out too many responsibilities
were manager.

226
00:14:32,700 --> 00:14:36,000
That's not listening to you.
You're feeling like, you're not

227
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:40,000
a member of the team, you're
just there doing your job, those

228
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:44,200
kind of things, I think really
burdened working mothers and

229
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,200
I've got a lot of people are
like I was you do carry some of

230
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:51,500
that home with you.
I remember going home and

231
00:14:51,500 --> 00:14:55,900
pouring up a glass of wine and
unloading on my husband and him

232
00:14:55,900 --> 00:15:00,100
saying, I know there's nothing
you can do about it but Didn't

233
00:15:00,100 --> 00:15:01,900
help.
I mean, what I should have done

234
00:15:01,900 --> 00:15:06,300
is talk to my director.
So I think that there are things

235
00:15:06,300 --> 00:15:11,000
that working mothers can do, the
survey that you read.

236
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:15,500
Also mention the importance of
flexible scheduling, the

237
00:15:15,500 --> 00:15:20,100
importance of remote work, for
people who have long commutes,

238
00:15:20,100 --> 00:15:25,300
the importance of self-care for
me, Jennifer learning how to

239
00:15:25,300 --> 00:15:28,200
take care of myself.
And when I was a young adult and

240
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,200
especially in my 40s, He's was
so important.

241
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,100
I had to figure out that if I
didn't get exercise, I didn't

242
00:15:35,100 --> 00:15:37,600
get sleep.
If I didn't get outside walking

243
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:43,300
in nature, I didn't feel good.
My mood was affected, we know,

244
00:15:43,300 --> 00:15:47,600
clearly that being out in
nature, improves mood.

245
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:52,800
Yeah, exercising, 20 minutes,
three times a week, improves

246
00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,800
mood and sleep.
We know that having social

247
00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,500
support and good friends,
improves me.

248
00:16:00,300 --> 00:16:05,000
And your emotional health and
so, part of what working mothers

249
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:09,100
are doing right now, I think is
really learning how to take care

250
00:16:09,100 --> 00:16:12,200
of themselves.
Now, that the pandemic is a

251
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:17,300
little less frightening, a
little less scary or children

252
00:16:17,300 --> 00:16:20,500
are back in school.
I think we all need to take a

253
00:16:20,500 --> 00:16:23,200
breath.
Look at our home life, talk to

254
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:28,200
our partner, look at our work,
life, our jobs and think about

255
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,600
the issues.
I I have developed a checklist

256
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,200
and I tested it out with some
Millennial moms, it's very

257
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,800
short, it's only got 21 items on
it.

258
00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:43,000
It's a checklist to determine if
working moms or overstressed or

259
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,500
burn out, and it's on my
website.

260
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:52,900
Susan, Landers MD.com burn out.
So your listeners can go to that

261
00:16:52,900 --> 00:16:55,600
website and find that free
checklist.

262
00:16:55,600 --> 00:17:00,800
And I've been told by Millennial
moms nurse Practitioners and

263
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:05,000
young Physicians that they
thought it was a helpful way to

264
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,599
just kind of review the issues
and their lives.

265
00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:11,800
What about the relationship?
What about their children?

266
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,500
What about their job?
What about their health?

267
00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:18,099
What about their mental health?
What about friendships?

268
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:22,099
And so the little checklist
takes you through all of those

269
00:17:22,099 --> 00:17:27,900
items that I hope will help
other working mothers figure out

270
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,200
where they are and how to get
Get unstuck, amazing.

271
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,500
Well, thank you so much for
that.

272
00:17:33,500 --> 00:17:37,600
Me Source, you talk about
symptoms and signs of being

273
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,100
burnt out versus depressed.
But what about postpartum

274
00:17:41,100 --> 00:17:43,100
depression?
What are some things?

275
00:17:43,100 --> 00:17:45,100
I know that you also said that
you thought that you might have

276
00:17:45,100 --> 00:17:48,100
it, but we're sure because it
was after the fact, it was about

277
00:17:48,100 --> 00:17:49,800
a year later.
What are some of those things

278
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:54,100
that young moms can look for, to
know or identify whether or not

279
00:17:54,100 --> 00:17:55,900
they actually have postpartum
depression.

280
00:17:55,900 --> 00:17:59,500
Well, postpartum depression in
general occurs.

281
00:17:59,700 --> 00:18:03,600
Within the first three to six
months after having a baby, not

282
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,200
always, but usually, it can
occur anytime in the first 12

283
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,300
months, it generally starts with
a depressed mood and of the baby

284
00:18:11,300 --> 00:18:15,400
blues only last two or three
weeks and everybody's exhausted

285
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:20,200
and sleepy and can't function
well, and the first month but

286
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:24,100
postpartum depression makes
women feel like they don't want

287
00:18:24,100 --> 00:18:26,500
to function.
Well, they don't want to take

288
00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:30,500
care of their baby or they're
overwhelmed by the the idea of

289
00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:34,400
caring for their baby or they're
scared that they're going to

290
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,300
hurt their baby.
Their mood is depressed.

291
00:18:37,300 --> 00:18:41,700
Of course, they can't sleep.
They're eating either not enough

292
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:46,700
or too much.
They usually have behaviors that

293
00:18:46,700 --> 00:18:51,100
family members recognized as not
being able to take care of

294
00:18:51,100 --> 00:18:53,600
themselves.
Not getting a shower, not

295
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,700
getting a bath.
Not taking the baby outside in a

296
00:18:56,700 --> 00:19:01,000
stroller.
So Mom's behavior, Comes very

297
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:07,100
Inward and she draws within
herself, some Mother's even have

298
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:11,200
ideations of harming their baby.
Now, the good news about

299
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:15,300
postpartum depression is that it
is totally treatable.

300
00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:20,200
I want your listeners to know
it's very common about one in

301
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,200
eight pregnant, women will get
some degree of postpartum

302
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,800
depression and it is treatable
with either psycho therapy or

303
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,500
Russians or both postpartum
depression has to be talked

304
00:19:33,500 --> 00:19:39,500
about so that dads husbands
Partners can help Mom recognize

305
00:19:39,500 --> 00:19:44,100
that if she's acting abnormal
more than just being sleepy

306
00:19:44,100 --> 00:19:48,200
because the babies up all night
that she can get some help

307
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,500
nowadays.
When mothers take their baby to

308
00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:56,200
see the pediatrician, the
pediatrician will give mom's new

309
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,500
moms, the first few months a
checklist.

310
00:19:59,700 --> 00:20:04,000
I think it's ten or eleven items
for postpartum depression it's a

311
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,900
great index.
It's a quick three-minute thing

312
00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:11,900
in the office that could clue
some of us into.

313
00:20:12,100 --> 00:20:15,700
Wow, this is really more than
just baby blues.

314
00:20:15,700 --> 00:20:20,100
Wow, I really need to talk to
somebody but I want to emphasize

315
00:20:20,100 --> 00:20:22,700
that postpartum.
Depression is treatable.

316
00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:26,500
It is a medical condition.
It is not something to be

317
00:20:26,500 --> 00:20:30,400
ashamed of it.
Is a neurobiological Logical

318
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:37,100
abnormality in your brain as the
result of pregnancy delivery or

319
00:20:37,100 --> 00:20:38,900
their life.
Stresses, there's one more

320
00:20:38,900 --> 00:20:40,900
thing.
A lot of people don't know about

321
00:20:40,900 --> 00:20:43,800
postpartum, depression.
I wanted to mention breast

322
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:50,100
feeding difficulties like sore
nipples Rod, nipples abnormal,

323
00:20:50,100 --> 00:20:54,300
latch struggling with milk
supply, real breast, feeding

324
00:20:54,300 --> 00:20:57,100
difficulties.
Second third, fourth month, they

325
00:20:57,100 --> 00:20:59,400
tend to correlate with
postpartum.

326
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,700
Fresh women.
Try so hard to breastfeed,

327
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,100
eighty-five percent of American
women.

328
00:21:06,100 --> 00:21:10,500
Start out after birth nursing
their children and within three

329
00:21:10,500 --> 00:21:13,600
months that's drop down to about
half that many.

330
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,100
The reason I'm saying this is
that breast feeding difficulties

331
00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:21,500
that don't get help mothers with
problems who aren't supported

332
00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:25,900
tend to feel worse and worse
about themselves as a mother.

333
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,100
And so if any of your listeners
are having Breastfeeding

334
00:21:30,100 --> 00:21:34,300
difficulties and haven't sought.
Help that is even more

335
00:21:34,300 --> 00:21:38,900
important, so they don't get
discouraged and don't develop

336
00:21:38,900 --> 00:21:41,200
depression.
So, the correlation between

337
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,200
breast feeding, difficulties and
postpartum.

338
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,700
Depression is pretty clear, but
it's all treatable, it's all

339
00:21:47,700 --> 00:21:49,200
fixable.
Yeah.

340
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,700
Thank you for that information,
which is extremely important.

341
00:21:52,700 --> 00:21:56,100
And also the fact that feeling
burnout, feeling overwhelmed,

342
00:21:56,100 --> 00:21:59,400
feeling anxious, feeling
stressed out, having postpartum

343
00:21:59,900 --> 00:22:03,200
There is no shame.
There is absolutely nothing

344
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,000
wrong with feeling those
feelings that you feel, but it

345
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,900
is important to know that you
have agency over your life just

346
00:22:09,900 --> 00:22:13,000
like, Susan learns that she had
to take away some of the plates

347
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,300
and didn't even think about it
up until reflected that back

348
00:22:16,300 --> 00:22:19,500
tire is like oh yeah I can take
some of these plates away.

349
00:22:19,500 --> 00:22:22,700
I changed my life and make it a
little bit easier for myself.

350
00:22:22,700 --> 00:22:26,000
There is really no reason for
you to put yourself up to these

351
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,200
high bars that are completely
fabricated.

352
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:30,600
You know.
No, it's okay to be a good

353
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,600
enough mother.
You don't have to be a perfect

354
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,400
mother.
There's no such thing as being a

355
00:22:34,408 --> 00:22:37,300
perfect mother, even though it's
something we wanted wise, I

356
00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:41,300
think we should all aspire to be
good enough mother's because as

357
00:22:41,300 --> 00:22:44,000
you said, there is no such thing
as a perfect mother.

358
00:22:44,100 --> 00:22:47,700
We all have interests outside of
raising children.

359
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,200
Yeah, and we should allow
ourselves to be the people.

360
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,600
We want to be without the
pressure of trying to be perfect

361
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,100
right now.
Susan, you have a delightful

362
00:22:58,100 --> 00:23:01,700
book behind you so Any babies
that I would love for you to

363
00:23:01,700 --> 00:23:03,400
tell everybody what that's
about.

364
00:23:03,500 --> 00:23:07,700
I wrote that book.
So many babies after I retired

365
00:23:07,700 --> 00:23:12,000
because I wanted to tell stories
about what life in the NICU was

366
00:23:12,100 --> 00:23:16,000
like there are a lot of Nikki
moms on social media, talking

367
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,400
about how horrible the
experience was for them.

368
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,300
And I'm sure it was Dreadful and
scary and traumatic and for

369
00:23:23,300 --> 00:23:26,800
those who got to take their
babies home eventually, it was

370
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:31,400
wonderful and relieving but the
others Side of the Care.

371
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,100
Are the doctors and nurses, who
take care of these very sick.

372
00:23:35,100 --> 00:23:38,100
Babies, tiny preemies, sick
newborns.

373
00:23:38,100 --> 00:23:43,900
And I chose some stories of
babies who thrived whose parents

374
00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:47,900
were inspiring and courageous.
Some of my favorite patients

375
00:23:47,900 --> 00:23:52,200
were in the hospital for six
months and I tell stories of

376
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:56,100
those families.
And what I learned from them

377
00:23:56,100 --> 00:24:02,000
along the way, I also weave into
At stories of my own motherhood,

378
00:24:02,100 --> 00:24:06,700
experience things that were
challenging for me, things that

379
00:24:06,700 --> 00:24:12,000
worked out my third child
develop dyslexia at age five or

380
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,700
six and I didn't have a clue how
to take care of it.

381
00:24:15,700 --> 00:24:19,100
Much less have it evaluated.
So things like that are in the

382
00:24:19,100 --> 00:24:23,800
book telling stories of how I
struggled as a mother and

383
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:28,300
usually succeeded got through
the problems helped my kids with

384
00:24:28,300 --> 00:24:32,400
what they needed and I wrote
those stories to reassure other

385
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:37,400
working moms that what we're
doing is really, very difficult.

386
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,100
We really are balancing.
Lots of things.

387
00:24:41,100 --> 00:24:46,100
We're juggling lots of different
things and most of the time

388
00:24:46,100 --> 00:24:50,500
we're doing a good enough job
and so I wrote the book to be

389
00:24:50,500 --> 00:24:55,000
reassuring to other working
mothers that what they were

390
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,800
going through.
Was normal, dr.

391
00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,400
Susan Landers.
Thank you.

392
00:24:59,500 --> 00:25:02,800
So much for being with us today.
So it's been my pleasure.

393
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:03,700
Thank you.