Gut-Brain Secrets for Better Mood, Focus & Skin | Holly Xing, Ep 215

Jennifer Norman:
Sometimes in life you're lucky enough to meet your kind of people. That's exactly what I felt when I first met my next guest. Holly Xing is the co-founder of Eight Billion, a certified B Corp that creates brain and mood boosting beverages that are designed to help people drink good, feel good and do good. But not only that, Holly is a biochemist and nutritional scientist who has developed hundreds of science backed for formulations and she speaks passionately on skin health, mental well being and brain optimization. We tend to think of mental clarity and emotional balance as something abstract, something that we chase through therapy, meditation, or even willpower. But the truth is that the answer could be far more tangible than that. Today's conversation invites us to rethink what we consume, not just as fuel, but as information for the body, the brain and the soul.

Jennifer Norman:
Holly is also something more unexpected. She's a competitive ballroom dancer, bringing artistry, rhythm and emotional expression into a world that is often dominated by data and formulas. So in this episode we're going to explore the fascinating intersection of science and soul. How nootropics and adaptogens work, the the gut brain connection and its impact on the beauty and the mood. And how creativity and resilience show up both in the lab and on the dance floor. If you've ever wondered how to feel better in your body, think more clearly and live more intentionally, this conversation might just change the way you experience your everyday rituals. Stay tuned.

Jennifer Norman:
Hi there Holly. So great to have you on the show.

Holly Xing:
Hi Jennifer. Such a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

Jennifer Norman:
I am so happy to see you again. We first met a short while back through the B Corp community in Los Angeles. I fell in love with you because you were so bright and sunny. You were sampling your products. You had Eight Billion there, which I'll we'll talk about in a moment. But I really was just taken by your backstory and we just had so much in common. So I wanted to let the audience hear about you and all of your storied career path.

Holly Xing:
Oh, well, first of all, we have fallen in love with each other. It's not at first sight, it's just a level. I was offering you a cup of Jost Arriba, which is of course, thank you, thank you. Something I have formulated for myself and over the years and transformed my life. And the connection was made because I was explaining, first of all, you really enjoy the drink. And so that was very lovely to have that feedback from somebody I just met. And also you had your own booth with your skincare product. So I started talking about explaining what's in Jost Arriba, the adaptogens and the nootropics, the functional mushrooms, ashwagandha.

Holly Xing:
And you share with me that you have similar ingredients in your skincare.

Jennifer Norman:
That's right.

Holly Xing:
And at that moment I don't think I let I share with you about my path. My experience as a skincare product developer for many years and now is in kind of a phase of my life that was fascinating. A phase? My career because I started as a nutritional scientist. I went to school, I have a degree in nutritional sciences and I've been working with nutraceuticals with nutritional products for to start my career as a formulating chemist product developer. And then I went into a phase. I was working on skincare products exclusively for about eight years and it was exciting. I was young and it was lifestyle was incredible. I was working with some global brands and there's like boots number seven and also Avon being working with Amore Pacific, the second largest city skincare brand in Asia. So there's a lot of excitement in that industry.

Holly Xing:
Listen to me. Name dropping now, I know.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, not too shabby. Holly. It's all right. Yeah, you've been around the block a few times.

Holly Xing:
Okay, I made my point. So and so spent spent a lot of time in the labs to formulating. You know I had access to thousands of ingredients from all over the world work with brands and some of them really the budget was not an issue there. It was just all about creating the most sophisticated, innovative and premium and natural, organic, whole nine yard products that's possible. So I went through the phase that I thought I was going to create formula products that's going to solve the problems of anybody who ever struggle with their skin and which I have accomplished for with many formulations for many people. However, the same formula would not work for all the people then that's a given. Yeah, we will have a very different biology and skin structure and etc but even for the same person it will work for a period of time and it will not or any will go back to working for that person. And the more I observe the products are working or not working in making the connections between what's going on with that person and the more I realize that it's within what's going within that person and that's really the main focus, the determining factor of the health of the skin.

Holly Xing:
And that happened with myself and it was very obvious that I was going through a roller coaster in my life and with the ups and downs and the stress and the trauma and product launches and traveling, you know, traveling was taking a toll on my body, on my skin. It was so obvious, you know, after 14 hour flight to Asia and I could barely recognize myself and there's no amount of face mask or serum that could really make any difference and not until myself and be able to regulate. And I'm doing a lot better these days. But back then I struggle a lot of staying calm. I'm a very passionate person. I don't have a lot of patience. So staying calm has been a struggle of my entire life. And I'm proud to say I'm a very different person now compared to back then.

Holly Xing:
And a lot of it is because after that, those eight years of dedicating myself to developing skincare products, I decided that it wasn't helping the people with their struggles the same way I wanted to. And there was. It went as far as skin deep literally. And then beyond that I realized that it's more important that we work on our inside and inside it's not just working on the organs and muscles and you know, collagens. We'll get to the collagen a little bit later. But it was a lot to do interestingly with our brain and our men mental well being. And so now years later, after working with nootropics and adaptogens and these are the actives that help our body, our brain to cope with stress, to improve our calmness, improve our, our sleep. It wasn't until I started working with these ingredients I realized this is what fundamentally making a difference not just for people's mental well being and the brain health but it actually comes through on their skin.

Holly Xing:
And skin is really, I think you hope I'm quoting you correctly. Skin is the one that tells the story of what's going on inside your body. So yes. So as a product developer I have not really I kind of walked away from the skincare industry. It's still interesting part of my life, you know, I still make my own skincare products.

Jennifer Norman:
Lucky you.

Holly Xing:
For myself I don't do that commercially for brand anymore. And you know I had many opportunities to start a company for skincare products and I just never felt to be the right path. And eventually the product I ended up developing and starting a company, Eight Billion, named after 8 billion people human being on this planet. And we were one the same thing really. We want to eat, drink good and we want to feel good and we want to do good. So eventually the only product I really wanted to share was everybody I care about 8 billion people on the planet, I care about them all is something that is a beverage, it's something that we drink. And in my case, I start my every morning.

Holly Xing:
I have been for the, over the last four years. And it has given me so much in my life in terms of health benefits, in terms of mental wellbeing and in terms of my skin health. The issues I used to struggle with, the, the breakouts, you know, the psoriasis. I. Every time I went through a difficult time period and difficult phase in my life, it shows on my skin and it will not go away until I deal with. Within and with different me different things. I used to rely heavily upon traditional Chinese medicine. I still, this is my go to.

Holly Xing:
You know, I would remember there was one time I went through probably the worst time in my life. I just lost my father to cancer. And it was right, it was still. We're not still out of the pandemic, we're not out of the woods. And I had to travel. And traveling during the pandemic was hell. And I had to travel to Montreal to see the immigration, the US Immigration officer for an interview to get my green card because I, you know, married an American. But it took them many years to even allow me the opportunity to have an interview because of my Chinese background.

Holly Xing:
Whole different story. But so I, it was back to, back to back. And then the interview was just again, you know, worst experience that, that I ever had. And. And I was rejected because I didn't have a police criminal record. I left China when, when I was 18. Right. So there was no way I was able to get the criminal record from China.

Holly Xing:
And then, so long story short, I was going through hel. Skin. My entire body from my head to toe was breaking out, was itchy, was inflamed, was red and swollen. And I remember, I don't, I don't. I didn't take one photo from that trip. And because I feel so awful, you know, having a skin count, it's a suspicious cycle. You know, when your skin is breaking out like that, you're not thinking straight, you know, you're not, you're not. I was not sleeping at all.

Holly Xing:
I was waking up throughout the night and just trying to put ice on my skin, just feel a little calmness, which of course didn't help with my, my sleep at all. And so I came back from that trip eventually, you know, they were. I had to write them a lot of correspondence to convince them that it was not possible for me to get the record from the Chinese government. So they I was given the, the green card eventually after all that torture. But then I went through the phase of my life and just evaluating what am I doing as a person? You know, what am I doing as a, a chemist and what am I doing as a nut and what am I doing as a product developer and do I, and what do I want to do as a career? Do I want to go back and return to an industry and work in the labs and manufacturing facilities? You probably can't relate to me with hearing it and you know, with all these equipments, but that's what I did for, for 20 years in a lab coat and working with well, chemicals and just anything that I really, I had access to everything. That was the advantage. I had access to technology, innovation, colleagues who are just brilliant and we get to collaborate and create, essentially create anything I want to create as a product. But it was not solving the problems for let alone other people, even myself.

Holly Xing:
Right. And then so I kind of, I went through a phase of doing research on brain health and mental well being and not just like what kind of pharmaceuticals. And there's lots of people who are dependent on pharmaceuticals for especially mental wellbeing and, and we do have a mental illness even I was, I would call it crisis. These days, of course stress is everywhere and it's a different kind of stress. It's a different kind of stress compared to, you know, how I grew up with and witness and watching my parents struggle, struggling with lack of things, lack of everything. And now we're living a world that's everything's abundant and sadly we're, we're more depressed and anxious than ever.

Holly Xing:
When I grew up, there was no, there was no concept of depression. There's no concept mental well being, mental health, you just, you survive, right? You do with, you live with what you have. And now stress is apparently in everything, in everywhere. And so fast forward to now 2026. We have been able to create a company which is certified B Corp. And that's a big part of in my opinion, my mental wellness as well. I'm meeting somebody like you through the B Corp event. You know, being that community with like minded people, that was a great source of.

Holly Xing:
I feel like home right to me and I feel safe, you know, I feel taken care of. I had the connection, I had, you know, my love hormones like oxytocin is going through the roof. Why am I right? So, yeah, and hopefully through what I'm doing as a certified B corp and building business and also sharing my knowledge and not just a drink I mean, I'm so glad so many people get to enjoy just riba as a beverage. But even if they don't, somebody who doesn't drink coffee or who doesn't for whatever reason, they can still benefit from hopefully the information, the knowledge I get to share as a somebody who has gone through the, been through the industries of nutraceuticals and cosmeceuticals and skin care and understanding what's going on behind the scene, understanding what's going on inside our body and can help many, many people to improve their brain health, their mental health, and also their skin health. You know, as a nutritionist, people ask me this question every single day. You know, everywhere I go, you know, what do you eat to stay fit? What do you, what do you not eat? Like, what are you, what kind of diet are you on? Right. And right. It's not that I've never been on diet.

Holly Xing:
I just don't. That's not who I am anymore. That's not what I do anymore. But I feel, I don't count calories. I don't purposely, I'm not ketogenic. You know, I don't avoid anything that really speaks to me. If I enjoy food, which I think is such a source of my happiness every morning, looking forward to what I get to drink and what I get to eat and from if I can help people. I see a lot of people struggling with their mental wellness and also their weight loss and their skin.

Holly Xing:
And they're looking at just doing one thing or, you know, applying one product or just taking, I don't know, GLP-1. They're looking for something to deal with the symptoms and not the root cause.

Jennifer Norman:
Right.

Holly Xing:
For me, it all, all started with my brain. If I don't take care of my brain, I don't make the right decision. I won't be able to eat the right food and drink the right drinks and do have the motivation to do the exercise. I won't be able to take care of my mental health. I won't be able to take care of my gut health. Then no matter what kind of skincare products I put on my skin, it's not, it's not going to address the problem.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, yeah, no. You've said so many enlightening things. I had been really a bit overwhelmed and concerned after having been in the beauty industry for so long at just thinking about all the toxicity that is in the world. You know, what we're consuming, what we're putting on our skin, what we're living with. The pollution. And I really did come to realize that there was still too much toxicity in the beauty industry. And one of the most interesting quotes that I had heard from a dermatologist was, nobody needs moisturizer. Like, if you're doing everything well, then you really don't need skin care per se.

Jennifer Norman:
Yet look at all the, like, myriads of products that are out there on the market selling this glimmer of hope or selling status or selling things that maybe are compensating for other areas that were not necessarily taking care of. And so it creates this vicious loop of us being almost in codependence of these things because they're helping to solve a problem that could necessarily be addressed by looking at the root cause to your point. And it's interesting that you've made that shift from outer beauty, we'll call it, to inner health and wellness.

Holly Xing:
Yes.

Jennifer Norman:
And I think that that is a. It is a macro trend. Thank goodness people are waking up to the fact that what we have been eating as far as foods and drinking has not been serving us very well, particularly with the sugar, all of the fillers, the preservatives, even red dye number... I don't know what it, what it is, but that can cause some kids to go into a violent rage. And there are these very interesting things that we're learning about the ingredients that have been going into what we've been eating and how they do impact our mood, how they impact our brain and how we get addicted to it. Because that's what the companies want us to do. They want us to buy more of these products so that we're kind of hooked on them. And that's capitalism for you.

Jennifer Norman:
But you've chosen to do something different. You wanted to focus on a healthier way of doing business as well as healthier products to serve the community with. And really thinking about all of the ingredients that are going to help people to have better brains, have better skin, have better quality of life. And you mentioned a couple, which are the nootropics as well as the adaptogens. And so I wanted to talk a little bit about those and how you landed on those and what they actually do in the body. Because I think my audience will probably be very interested in hearing about that.

Holly Xing:
Yeah, well, first of all, I started working with adaptogens and nutrition had nothing to do with skin, with beauty, as I said, you know, I kind of walked away. I left that industry, the beauty industry, like you're saying it was. I was fortunate to work with brands who believed in the natural and organic and avoiding well. And it was not easy. And the traditional chemicals that have been used in skincare products to reduce costs really. To increase profitability and for mass production.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah.

Holly Xing:
Or elongate the shelf life for all those reasons. So the a business. Yeah, yeah, it was business. So when I first started working formulating products I was asking for from the ingredient suppliers, for example, you know, I want paraben free. And they were looking at me like there is no paraben free. You got to work with whatever we have. Right. And but of course the industry has come a long way and by the time I was formulating I was able to basically create products I was happy to put on my body and I was willing to put on people I love.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. R & D and business people were very sad that parabens that didn't become a pariah because they were cheap and effective.

Holly Xing:
Yeah, exactly.

Jennifer Norman:
And then all of a sudden their costs like triple because they have to replace parabens with something else.

Holly Xing:
But I hate to say don't shoot the messenger but you know, the ingredient cost in these skincare products is such a small percentage. And sometimes the packaging is.

Jennifer Norman:
It's the packaging.

Holly Xing:
It's packaging and it's the three or four times distributors branding is who the who's the face of the brand and so on so forth. So. But that's the ugly side of the industry also. You know, it's going to be another entirely different episode that you and I and I don't want to be. I love that the industry. I still care about it. You know, it's still part of my life. But it was.

Holly Xing:
I did not enjoy the community that I would go going to these conferences and I was not even working with cosmetic products. I was working with skincare. So it was less toxic. Can you imagine was like the hair products and all these makeups and which you're like FD & C number five. It's all chemicals and it had nothing to do with the health of the skin. Is all about masking it. It's all about the glamour for them. Like the instant gratification.

Holly Xing:
So there was a lot of that psychologically toxicity. Psychological toxicity I could not deal with. And especially coming from a very natural and nutritional background. So you know, leaving that industry, it was not something that there was a decision I didn't take very lightly. So I actually took a break after leaving that skincare industry and thinking what do I do? One, what would I want to go towards as a product developer or anything? And I met somebody watch you met somebody prior to that was Olympian, who is highly decorated Olympian, who wanted.

Jennifer Norman:
Go ahead.

Holly Xing:
Okay. I don't want to keep.

Jennifer Norman:
I know. You want a name drop.

Holly Xing:
No, I. To hold back on that. No.

Jennifer Norman:
Apollo Ono, everybody. It was Apollo Ono. Okay. I said it. Go ahead.

Holly Xing:
And. And we wanted. We wanted to develop products and working with adaptogens and nootropics. And these were secret weapons of athletes who they use these ingredients to gain this competitive advantage. One would probably...

Jennifer Norman:
Legally.

Holly Xing:
Legally, Yes. I had to work with a lot of research restrictions in terms of what kind of ingredients I was able to work with. And it's. Yes, it's performance enhancement, but in. In a natural, safe, legal way. And so I really, again, another glamorous lifestyle is working with celebrities. You know, I was working with really unlimited resources and budget to create these products. The best performing combination to help our brain, to enhance our cognition, to improve our focus and to enhance.

Holly Xing:
To provide sustained energy. It's not like the stimulants that you just like bouncing up the wall against the wall and crash a few hours later you want.

Jennifer Norman:
So I guess, yeah, something that would be an example of that would be sugar, where you get a boost and then crash. Caffeine is another one where you get a boost and then it deteriorates over time. Everybody knows, happens after lunchtime and, you know, go into. Into that slump.

Holly Xing:
Yes.

Jennifer Norman:
What else would be considered something like that?

Holly Xing:
Where it's like an ephedrine, for example. You know, it's natural. It's a. It's Chinese name is ma huang. It's. It's a herb, but it's something I used to take. And yeah, it gives you. Gives you this false sense of energy.

Holly Xing:
But then the heart population was same thing you get from drinking lots of caffeine. Right. And not just caffeine from coffee or tea. Caffeine, synthetic caffeine. I used to work with caffeine powder. It has nothing to do with coffee. I mean, it looks just like cocaine, right. Actually it was.

Holly Xing:
Caffeine was used to. It's pure. Caffeine is a controlled substance as well. Right. It has devastating side effects. And when consumed irresponsibly, unprotected caffeine, but, you know, protected caffeine. I mean, there's caffeine in Jost Arriba, but it's protected. There's ltheline, which is the amino acid from tea.

Holly Xing:
And that's why when you drink Joe Struba, which you have and you don't get the same kind of negative side effects. Fun Even compared to drinking cup of coffee, which I did, you know, I did for years. My life was. I was the miserable person in the morning. I could not even think straight until I have my coffee.

Jennifer Norman:
I think you're speaking to everybody listening to this podcast. I'm sure everybody's like, okay, I can't survive. You know, it's like I am not alive until I have that morning coffee or something. And then, okay, I'm a normal human being now and I can function. But then it also interrupts your sleep cycle too. And that is so important for well being as well, especially if you're having it in the afternoon to try to get over that midday slump. It's very, very hazardous over the long haul for your health to interrupt your sleep cycle. We were all.

Holly Xing:
Yeah. And then recognizing that sleep well. And I guess then you get in the morning time and you're cranky...

Jennifer Norman:
You're going for it, you need to go for your coffee.

Holly Xing:
Yep.

Jennifer Norman:
It's again, it's that getting you hooked on it.

Holly Xing:
Yeah. So that's also going back to why I developed the product that, you know, I get to enjoy every day now without the negative side effects is I was, yeah, I was drinking. I did the math. I was having these Starbucks Light Roast, which I didn't realize, Light Roast had more caffeine than dark roast. I thought like, there you go.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, I didn't know that. I thought dark roast.

Holly Xing:
Oh no, dark roast is more, it's more processed than with the heat. So that's why it's more.

Jennifer Norman:
It's more burnt.

Holly Xing:
Right. So yeah, exactly. And then consequently there is a loss of caffeine. And as the more you process and also there's loss of antioxidants which really, it's the good part of drinking coffee is sadly, Americans get their majority of the antioxidants through drinking coffee. It's quite pathetic when you think about it. Not from eating fruits and vegetables, but from drinking the coffee coffee. So going back to the light roast. So every cup I used to drink had 180mg of caffeine in there.

Holly Xing:
And of course I will go through the day having like two or three of them. And by the time I go to bed, yeah, there's tons of caffeine still in my body because it's the halftime of caffeine is what, six to eight hours. So I would be going to bed with lots of caffeine, waking up just feeling like a zombie. And, and at the same time. So working with adaptogens and neutropics and that was, But I was taking them as, as pills and as tablets, tablets and capsules. There's no pleasure of swallowing pills. I don't know anybody who gets up in the morning go, yay, I'm going to do swallow a bunch of pills. Yeah.

Jennifer Norman:
And the funny thing is, is that then they'll take gummies because they're more pleasant, but the gummies are loaded with sugar, you know, so it, yeah. It's just bizarre.

Holly Xing:
Yeah. I'm sorry. You know, I, I have colleagues who are in the, the gummy industry and, and I even look into formulating gummies myself. Like you're saying, as I, as soon as I break down the chemistry, it's like. No, for. In order. Yeah. In order to deliver 100 milligrams or something, I need to eat, consume 5 grams of sugar and all the artificial or sometimes natural, but there's still flavors, still chemicals.

Holly Xing:
Right. And that our body really do not need. And it's just a burden. Just. And also it was horrible for my teeth.

Holly Xing:
A lot of, A lot of. Yeah. And. But back to Jost Arriba. So it was something I wanted. I want to take these ingredients because I knew they work. And I tested on myself, I tested on Apollo, I tested a lot of people and developed products.

Jennifer Norman:
It seems to work pretty well for Apollo.

Holly Xing:
He's still around. So after understanding these ingredients, they are efficacious and they're safe and they, they could be life changing, but only if you can get somebody like even myself to even want to take it on a daily basis. And also the coffee thing was not working out for me. It was, I knew, and talking about born dancing, you know, I started born dancing years ago, but just as a social dancer. I had really enjoyed it. It was my escape. You know, when you're dancing, you don't, you don't think about anything else but that moment. But then I started competitive born dancing.

Holly Xing:
It's an entirely different world. Going on to the dance floor and it was, I would dance like 10 choreographed routines at very complicated levels and with the music and was. I needed the energy, I need the focus. And my teacher used to tell me not to drink coffee because I would be a hot mess. Mess. I will go on the floor. Yeah. I thought I, I need energy.

Holly Xing:
Right. I need to, you know, my, my, I need to clear my mind. No, it was just like I would lose my mind. And it was, it was giving me so much anxiety, you know, and I was not stable, I was not calm. I was all jittery and There were times I was, I would go on the floor and blank out after, you know, month of training, not remembering my routine. And, and of course it shows on my, on my body, the stress it shows on my body, on my face. There's no. When you watch some beautiful dancer, that dancer is not nervous, that dancer is not intense.

Holly Xing:
That dancer is calm, you know, that dancer is, you know, breathing and is, is relaxed. So. And I went through a phase when I first started competitive dancing. It was, it was a struggle. And so again, you know, I was looking for something to help. I did not, I did not consider myself an athlete, but I was basically living a life of an athlete. You know, I was come doing dancing and training and while I was working with these ingredients, so everything in my life kind of came together. You know, I wanted performance enhancement and, but I also wanted calmness.

Holly Xing:
You know, I wanted to have this mental clarity and the, the smooth alertness that was not. I could not get from an energy drink or found drinking coffee. And so yeah, so I, I think it was, it was inevitable that I would arrive to the, at the conclusion that I wanted something that's delicious. And so I get to drink every day. And so there's compliance, you know, and I look forward to it because that's part of my happiness, is the source of my, my joy. Every day is important for my, my mental health and, and also gives me the efficacies that I was looking for, not just in dancing, but just overall in life. You know, my work was very intense. I was working with top performing, you know, these athletes or celebrities.

Holly Xing:
And there was a lot of, a lot of responsibility and a lot of pressure. You know, again I was traveling a lot all over the world and I'll stop name dropping, but it was. And also I wanted to challenge my brain in different ways and I started learning Spanish. So I was pushing my limit and see how far I can go by incorporating these ingredients that you're familiar with as well. But I was also working with ingredients. It's not just for example, Ashwagandha. It's not just any Ashwagandha. It's KSM 66 Ashwagandha because of 70 clinical studies and, and to, to support the efficacy and safety of these ingredients.

Holly Xing:
So yeah, and of course my life was, was going through a transformation, you know, professionally, personally. And you know, I was, I now I consider myself an accomplished born dancer. You know, I have, you know, I have won championships, I have accomplished things I never imagined I was able to even just gone back. Thank You. Thank you. And I would not, I can honestly just let you know that was. I would not be able to accomplish all this. You know, I now do speak Spanish and you know, I now can.

Holly Xing:
You know, I'm running a business and I'm working with a lot of incredible people that. And community that I was not. I would not be able to imagine years ago even while I was working with the skincare industry. So yeah, it has been very exciting journey and even, even fun also through this journey I have noticed the connection between my, my brain, my mental health and also my body. You know, I feel stronger than ever. You know, I. And you know, your skin is something that I kind of took it for, for granted. You know, my entire life.

Holly Xing:
Okay. I have been lucky to have health, healthy skin. Right. But as I was saying, I also went through phases that when there's stress in my life, my skin just fell apart. And it's not until I deal with the, the either the root cause of the stress or I have been able to manage my stress level with adaptogens and topics which I get to drink every day. I enjoy drinking it.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, that's a very important point because the goal is not to eliminate stress. That's an unreasonable goal. We all have stress. There's going to be stress in our lives. It's a given. The, the thing that we can control is our reaction to that stress. And so if your body and your mind are better able to cope and deal with that stress, then you're going to be able to make better decisions. You're going to be better in your relationships because you're not going to snap.

Jennifer Norman:
You're going to be able to just be calmer. And so that's the benefit of these kinds of things, the adaptogens and the nootropics that Holly is talking about. Because adaptogens unto themselves are molecules that help to promote homeostasis. And so it's going to take the edge out of the highs and it's going to take the edge out of the lows and create balance. It's going to help your mood and your body and the cortisol regulation, it's going to help all of those things stay in better balance so you're not doing these crazy swings throughout the day. And then the nootropics are going to be mind enhancing and these are things that are going to not deplete you or rob your future in order to bring it into the, into the present like caffeine does. It's like going to give you that Boost. But then it's going to rob all of your energy from later on in the day and then pull it forward.

Jennifer Norman:
So this is something that when Holly talks about more sustained balance and more sustained energy and more level headed thinking, more clarity, that's really what we're talking about. And so a lot of us don't even realize how much that impacts our entire lives. It's like, you know, our mood is so important, our energy is so important for how we perform not only on the ballroom dance floor, but in, you know, in work, in, you know, our families and all of that. You know, how many times do we feel like, oh, I'm just gonn go for the glass of wine because I'm stressed out or I, you know, I just need to relax. You know, these decisions that we make don't necessarily have to be the ones that we create habits out of that are going to deplete our health in the long run. If we think about, you know, better ways, more, you know, interesting and novel alternatives that have been proven to work through science and you know, look for those kinds of things in your products. And so Eight Billion is a great example of one that is a coffee alternative. It has mushrooms in it.

Jennifer Norman:
You might want to talk about some of the ingredients that are in it, which is great. And then they're also in our Humanist Beauty products too. Which is why Holly and I go so well together is because we do have this inside out benefit of having adaptogens and really interesting ingredients that work in combination with each other.

Holly Xing:
Yeah. It's so connected. Yeah. I think as a society we tend to cope with stress by disconnecting, by numbing out. Yeah. Like you're saying I go for alcohol...

Jennifer Norman:
or you know, fight, flight, freeze, or fawn.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, whatever it might be.

Holly Xing:
Yeah. So either way we're overstimulated or we're disconnected. But the, the truth is that the best state of mind state that one person can be in is this calm focus. So you're, we're not reacting. Yes. Stress is everywhere, you know, all day long. You can, you don't have to look for it. It's, it's there and, but how do you react to it? There's so many ways of helping your, your body and mind to, to, to stay calm and there's different exercise and practice.

Holly Xing:
But having adaptogens and nootropics is a really, it's scientifically proven. Like you know, for example, Ashwagandha, you know, we're talking about. It's, it's proven that the Ashwagandha in well the one at least we use in Jost Arriba lowers the cortisol level every time you drink it. And, and there's lice being mushroom and there's Reishi mushrooms. So these are medicinal mushrooms that our culture, Chinese culture and Japanese culture have been used for thousands of years. And, and there's a reason for that. Reishi mushroom has been considered this longevity mushroom. And longevity is you know supporting your immune system anti inflammatory and, and also it supports your your skin health.

Holly Xing:
And lice being mushrooms has been used to protect your brain and from the aging process and actually stimulates the nerve growth factor and you know it helps with your. Improve your mental health as well and your ability to cope with stress. And L Theoline as I mentioned earlier is the amino acid from tea and, and which gives you. Helps your brain to increase the alpha wave which is the relaxing brain wave contrary to the beta wave which is usually caused by stimulants like including caffeine. And it's, it's the state of mind. It's like the namaste when you do yoga. You know that's the brain wave that, that, that's been created in your brain and you're, you're calm but also you're focused and you're not drowsy. So that's in there ill feeling.

Holly Xing:
So you get the benefits from kind of like the, the sensation from drinking tea but with the pleasure of drinking coffee. And, and there's. Oh yeah, one more ingredient is actually extra. It's called. It's extracted from the coffee berry. The skin of the coffee berry, which normally is discarded because the coffee you only use the nuts the for the coffee process.

Holly Xing:
But as you can imagine the antioxidants which usually corresponds to the colorful part of the fruit is in the skin. So the skin. The concentrate is in Jost Arriba because it is clinically proven to increase the production of BDNF -- the brain derived neurotropic factor.

Holly Xing:
So that's the neuroprotective protein in our brain that's responsible for keeping us just mentally sharp. Like that's, that is the brain protein that we all need. And as we age unfortunately the BDNF level goes down. But drinking this ingredient having in Jost Arriba every single time the BDNF level goes up up by 149%. So every single time you're, you're drinking it, you're helping your brain to, to stay younger and, and also all these antioxidants. There's no... antioxidants don't just work on one part of your body or one organ.

Holly Xing:
Antioxidants protect our skin in so many different ways. You know that, right? We talked about it. And inflammation is the root cause of, of I would say probably all the skin.

Jennifer Norman:
So much disease.

Holly Xing:
Yeah, yeah. And, and also the collagen production, elastin. These are the, the building blocks of healthy skin. Again, as we age, guess what? Your body starts to break down. Collagens, elastance and not producing enough. That's why our, our skin start to age and I'll get to the collagen part of it. So I'm sure many of your audience are familiar with taking collagen as a supplement.

Holly Xing:
So I went through the phase of being asked to formulate a collagen product and which is really fairly straightforward. There's like collagen everywhere, right? You just, you know, cop a supplier, you just pack into a bag and here you. Off you go.

Jennifer Norman:
And some of it is, it's bovine. It's, you know, depending on if you're a vegan or not, you know, the. You probably.

Holly Xing:
It's what animals not really exist in, in, in plants, unfortunately. However, so eventually in this case, I developed a product without collagen because I realized that collagen is not something that you consume in food and it goes straight to your skin. No, it does not work that way. Your body, your body is very intelligent. So your body, basically you can consume anything that can contribute to collagen production. That could be collagen itself, but your body still breaks it down and then reconstruct to create, to build, to produce collagen where it needs the collagen. So your joints, your skin and even your eyes and your muscles, they all need collagen.

Holly Xing:
When you consume collagen, it does not translate into just collagen in your skin. But what I realized that is that if, no matter how, regardless what you, you consume, how much collagen you consume, if your body is inflamed, if your body does not, if your diet does not provide the antioxidants, and the coenzymes, for example, vitamin C, your body still cannot produce collagen, like even with the collagen in your diet. So eventually what I did is to develop a product and it's all botanical extract to provide these antioxidants and enzymes and coenzymes. So your body can use its own intelligence to take whatever is coming in your diet and it could be protein from a plant source and be able to produce collagen on its own.

Holly Xing:
That's why, you know, why I just share with you a blog, an article I wrote, you know, the connection between the brain and the guts and also your skin. Yeah. It's, there is no separation. You know, the skin tells the story about what's going in your guts, the microbiome, you know, and which is really, and not just micro but the, the nutrients. Right. That it's a result of what you consume. Right. And also it's a result of how your body responds to stress.

Holly Xing:
Right. If your body is on your mind, is under stress, you're not going to, first of all eat, probably eat the right things, but also your microbiome is going to be in balance and it's not going to, yeah. And it's not going to produce the kind of neurotransmitters and hormones that your brain needs to stay sharp and, and you feel, you know, in balance. And then if your brain is not working properly, guess what, you're not going to make the right decision and eat the right food and you see how the loop works.

Jennifer Norman:
Right, Exactly.

Holly Xing:
So for somebody to ask me, Holly, what do you use on your skin to keep you healthy. You know, it's not what I put on my skin, which is important, of course. You know I love the formulations of your eye cream and your herbal oil. Right.

Jennifer Norman:
Thank you.

Holly Xing:
I kind of disagree with the dermatologist you called earlier. I think what you put on your skin still matters. And you know, the, the moisturizing still matters. And, and also what matters what you put on it and what's, what you don't put on it. And you and I have... I kind of studied your skin care formulations and you really... it comes down to two applications. Right. The oil and the eye cream.

Holly Xing:
That's kind of how I... that's my skincare. Right.

Jennifer Norman:
I don't need 17 steps.

Holly Xing:
You do not. But, but also how you apply the skincare application makes a difference as well. You know, how you take care of your, the touch. You know, we talked about the ritual. Obviously you do have a skincare ritual at night and applying your own product.

Jennifer Norman:
I think that that's a real meaningful part of it because it does create a ritual and it creates an intention out of that self care aspect of what the beauty, you know, ritual is. And so yeah, just being very mindful, breathing as you're going, you know, expressing your gratitude, thinking about, calming yourself, all of those things as you're, as you're making this application, you're massaging your skin, you're massaging it into your hands, you're working it around your eyes and then you're ready for either going on with your day or you know, having a nice restful sleep. I think that, that, that phase, that transition aspect is quite nice for mood setting, too.

Holly Xing:
Yeah. And guess what happens during the sleep. Your body heals, right? Your brain is, you know, dumping the things you would not want to keep. And also your digestive system heals and during the sleep and your inflammation is reduced throughout your body. So the quality of sleep as a result of this ritual, applying the skincare products, it's really, the effect is beyond just the skin. It is your entire body and your entire mind. And then when you wake up in the morning, it's so night and day you can see not just on your face but in your eyes or if somebody had a good night's sleep or not. Right?

Holly Xing:
We need to please, like if anything can be taken away by your audience, like focus on your body, on your brain and on your insides and as much as you focus on on the outside. I'm not saying that is not important. It is, but it's not going to solve the problem. And we all are these days are dealing with, you know, mental and cognitively. You know, and there's many people walking around with brain fog, you know, with either... they are overstimulated or they are disconnected. They're not making the right decisions.

Holly Xing:
You know, they're not motivated to do the right things. And until that's addressed, you know, no skincare is going to change your life or even change your skin. You know, I, well at one point I had a friend, you know, who's also wanted me to develop a skincare product. A line, a skincare line for her. And this time I won't drop any name, but she is like, we call her Billion Dollar Babe because she's born to like one of the wealthiest family in in the country. And she basically had access to everything. And I was told that there's no limit to the budget.

Holly Xing:
I could use anything I want to use in these formulations. And because she had struggled with her skin her entire life, apparently it's like being wealthy point to a wealthy family is very stressful. And and she went to went through her entire adult adult, well entire childhood and adulthood just none just struggling with mental well, mental health as as well as her skin health. And she did not make any connection. I did not make any connection back then. You know, I was still just working with skincare products and I thought, we both thought like now we can formulate something that was just going to solve all her issues.

Holly Xing:
And she also thought her skin was the problem. You know, it was the other way around eventually or there's a, it's a vicious cycle. But she thought her skin was the problem of her life. And if her skin was healed then her life will be healed.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh interesting how it works out that way.

Holly Xing:
Her skin was healed for a period of time because the formulation we end up developing. But then you know, she will go through a personal crisis. You know, she had the wrong boyfriend in her life and people taking advantage of her. And then she will go through the this phase at no matter what skincare and and she will, you know, she, you would just, she would just go back to before and breaking out and and you know, she will have like inflammation all of her body. But I think it's something that that a lot of us probably can relate to, you know, with or without the billion dollar or you know, endless access to to skincare actives. But I think, the solution does not have to be costly. Like the solution does not have to... You don't have to spend thousands of dollars on skincare products or treatments.

Holly Xing:
You really just need to look at within and being willing to to do some kind of work. You know, it's instead of looking at pharmaceuticals or just any product like you know, vitamin or supplement to, to make your problem problems go away. I really look at what work it started and how you can go there and then also just break the cycle, you know, break if the stress, you know, is the problem. There's so many different ways to to, to break the stressful cycle but, but you need to be willing to to confront it and also do the work to deal with it.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah yeah, I know that you know, as part of what used to happen to me when I would have a cortisol spike if I heard bad news or a lot of times if we're just watching the news, frankly, you know, all of a sudden you see something that just jars you. Because everything that we're seeing on media seems to be made to, you know, for shock and awe these days. So, you know, you. You have this reaction, and I would feel prickly like. Like if you feel that kind of sensation where there's heat or a rash or prickles, you know, that. That is inflammation. That's like a cortisol spike. That's something that is showing up on your skin because of your nervous system.

Jennifer Norman:
And this is, you know, and I would break out in cold sores, too. I would end up getting, like, terrible cold sores all over your mouth. It was usually like, before an interview, before our first day of, like, a new job. It was always like, something where I had to be, you know, present and looking a certain way, and then I'd have, like, this massive mouth of cold sores, which is always very, very lovely. So, you know, people who have eczema or psoriasis a lot of times. Yeah.

Jennifer Norman:
You know, and they're like, I don't know what to do. Take a look at what you're eating. Take a look at, you know, doing those functional medicine elimination diets where you remove the caffeine, you remove the sugar, you remove the dairy, you remove carbs. You know, a lot of the things that. That could be causing issues, especially alcohol is another one, and then, you know, slowly builds back things. But people have cured themselves of a whole lot of stuff because they just haven't realized that there is such an effect on what we're eating that. On what shows up on our skin, on how it causes us to manage cortisol spikes in our bodies or not manage them, frankly, and that it could be better served and you can be so much more balanced, so much more in homeostasis when we're consuming the right kinds of nutrients. And so, Holly, I want to thank you so much for bringing this to our attention because it is so important.

Jennifer Norman:
It can change lives. I mean, if we think about. If we think about road rage, if we think about things that we do or say in a moment's notice because we're under stress or pressure, that where we will later on go back and regret what we've said or done. You know, in those moments of anxiety or anxiousness, us, you know, this. This can make a world of difference. And so. Yeah, it could really be life changing.

Holly Xing:
So it could be. Yeah, you could be. Well, I, I believe so. You know, and that's why, you know, I think it may sound a little cliche, like one product can change the world. Yes, it can. It can get started. It could be a catalyst. I'm a nicer person to myself and other people.

Holly Xing:
Right.

Jennifer Norman:
And that's true too. That's true too. You have to be nice to yourself, first of all. Yeah.

Holly Xing:
And we all can with ourselves and other people. The conflicts. Why. Why are people fighting?

Jennifer Norman:
Holly is solving world peace. Everyone.

Holly Xing:
There you go.

Jennifer Norman:
There'd be no more wars. Everybody would be able to come to the table peacefully. Just talk it out. Yeah. Be better able to manage conflict.

Holly Xing:
Absolutely.

Jennifer Norman:
And your skin will shine and you'll be glowing and you'll be gorgeous on top of it.

Jennifer Norman:
What more could you want?

Holly Xing:
Yeah. And the food, you know, I didn't get to talk about that very much because I don't want to as a nutritionist. So every day people ask me what to eat, what not to eat, and it's, I can't just tell people, okay, you eat like how I do, and then, you know, everything will be fine. It doesn't work that way. Right.

Holly Xing:
You know, eating food is so personal and your drinks are so personal. But, but yeah, there's something that I would not even go near. I would go walking, even Whole Foods the other day. I walk in there, I'm walking through these snack aisles and looking at this. Chips and cookies and whatever. You know, these are natural. Right. Better for you, whatever.

Jennifer Norman:
Sugar cane is natural too.

Holly Xing:
You don't need it. Like, there's so many things that a food industry wants. Well, they, they're created for you to get addicted.

Jennifer Norman:
Yes.

Holly Xing:
Right. And with zero consideration of your health and, or, you know, their own health. It's all about profitability. And so as a consequence, we have us as, you know, the world is really not consuming the kind of molecules that we used to. Our parents or grandparents used to consume. And, and maybe here, here I am making the connection with, between the depression, you know, the mental illness and, and also just worse, sicken than ever. You know, people are not living better health, better lives now with all these abundance of food and, and technology and information, you know, we're struggling more than ever. And so it's, it's not about what to eat sometimes it's what not to eat.

Holly Xing:
It's not what to, what to do is sometimes what not to do, you know, and you were talking about information. What do you want is the information that just consuming information, it may not be the right thing to do. We need to be more, hopefully more selective of the information and also controlling our reaction as well. We need to be informed and educated. But how do we react to that information? There's things that we can control that yes, we can. We can do things to, to change, to make changes. But there's other things. It's there.

Holly Xing:
I'm aware of it. But I need to focus my energy. I only have limited energy and resources, focus my energy and resources on the things and that I can control and also for the, with the people who are willing to, to, to do the work with me. You know, it's, I think that's why, you know, the Speedcorp community, you know, speaking to you, what we do is, is hard work in terms of the kind of effort we... determination and effort that we're making every single day, and the sacrifices that were we're making. I don't want to talk about it that much. I don't want to. I want to share the joy.

Holly Xing:
I want to share the happiness and. But yeah, it's not easy. Nothing is easy these days. That if I want to look at all the hard work and appreciate the connections that we're making and the impacts we're making, that's all I need to make it worthwhile to wake up every day and do the same thing over and over for sure.

Jennifer Norman:
Well, Holly, you are definitely making that impact and you are really mindful and the choices that you've made as far as shaping your career path and the product that you're putting out. How can everybody find out more about Eight Billion if they're interested?

Holly Xing:
Oh, it's very easy, eightbillion.com. So E I G H T B I L L I O N dot com. And you can find our community as well. And we have on website we can talk about, we were talking about our impact as a B Corp certified B Corp and also 1% For The Planet member. And, and you can also find out about our ambassadors and the kind of impacts they're making by sharing their passion and their knowledge. And of course, you know, information on Jost Arriba and all the clinical studies on all the ingredients inside Jost Arriba. Of course more products will come, will be launching in the future.

Holly Xing:
But for now it's...I have been enjoying not only drinking it is so pleasurable and also the benefits, the transformation that that had happened. Not just me like so many people every, every day sharing their, their just how we, you know, as a community helped to transform their lives, you know, to, to help them to be more focused and happier and kinder and sleep better, you know and people who struggle with ADHD or people struggle with depression, they have. Find something that they get to enjoy and also just, just watch the, the, the positive things happen in their life. So that's that. And you know, of course, you know, we're still new and there's a lot of. We have our YouTube channel that's that we're, you're hopefully going to share the, our handles and you know, with this podcast and I'll love to. It's something that I love to do more is to have conversations with like minded, you know, brilliant, beautiful people like you Jennifer and but you know, have a business to run. So my focus is, you know, still I'm a product developer.

Holly Xing:
You know, there's lots of exciting new projects coming up and we'll keep you updated with.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, I love that. So exciting Holly. At the end of the podcast episodes, I always ask my guests the same three common questions that bring us back to our shared humanity. And so my first question to you here is what makes you beautiful?

Holly Xing:
I think kindness. I hope, I think if we approach ourselves and other people with kindness, everything else will feel beautiful. Everything in life will feel beautiful. I don't think beauty is definitely. It's not just skin, you know, it's. I look at you, Jennifer, you know it of course you have beautiful skin, you know, but it's your eyes, it's your smile, it's your kindness, it's your energy, you know that it's your calmness. Why see you, I not only I see you as a beautiful person, I feel in this moment, moment like as a beautiful person. And so that's, yeah, the beauty comes in so many.

Holly Xing:
I have so much beauty in my life. Not me personally as, as a physical object but you know, dancing makes me feel beautiful. Music, language. You know, I love learning Spanish because I feel beautiful. Speaking Spanish. I, I feel beautiful. Why I'm eating good food do. But it's all, it's I, I think the kindness part of it hopefully if I can share that.

Holly Xing:
I don't know if you can share beauty. Like if somebody's, you know, supermodel and wear a piece of clothes and nobody else can, you know, good for that. But I think beauty is contagious. You know, if you can, I can make. Hopefully I can make somebody else feel more beautiful. And, and, and as a result, you know, I feel more beautiful as a person.

Jennifer Norman:
I love that. My second question. What does it mean to be human?

Holly Xing:
Oh, privilege, I think we get to do. Yeah. I think as a human, I get to experience so much without the humans, and I get to learn so much. I get to absorb so much and I get to share so much. So it's, it's like to me, it's a privilege to be a human and, and the time. And I feel also privileged to be a human right now. You know this. Yes.

Holly Xing:
We just talked about how we're more stressed than depressed than before, but that's all something that we can control. AI does not have to control us. Technology doesn't have to control us. You know, dictator doesn't have to control us.

Jennifer Norman:
I don't know who you're talking about.

Holly Xing:
So far away for you. Why do I come. The concept dictatorship has really evolved. But I do feel, as a woman, as a, you know, a minority, that you and I have this in common.

Jennifer Norman:
We do.

Holly Xing:
I do feel I have a lot more power now as a woman and minority and be able to. I don't really have any. I don't have any. Well, I should, but I don't. I don't really have any fear. Right. Living my life, of course things are out of my control.

Holly Xing:
There's, you know, there's wars and conflicts. But I'm afraid before me, many people and, and what if they don't have the same kind of. Well, I think we all. I shouldn't say that. I think we all have power. You know, I know some people feel less powerful than the others, and truth be told, yeah, more people. Some people have more power than others. But we all have the power to, to, to make changes.

Holly Xing:
And it may. That change may be. You never know. You never know that once more change that, that you can make. What kind of ripple effect that can have. Right. So, yeah, again, back to your question. It's, It's a privilege.

Holly Xing:
And then we should cherish it. We should respect it, and, and we should, we should apply our power as, as a human being and to, to do the things that, that. To make the changes that we can make.

Jennifer Norman:
What a robust answer. Thank you, Holly. And so my final question for you is, what is one truth that you live by?

Holly Xing:
Oh, one truth that I live by. I think deep down, we are more connected than separated. I know it doesn't feel that way most of the time. If you listen to people complaining and listen. Watch the news. There's a reason we call our company Eight Billion. Because 8 billion people on the planet, not like. Like 4 billion people who are, you know, with me and the other 4 million were not with me.

Holly Xing:
I And our products and our brand. Our product don't really discriminate. Like, if somebody has a different belief system and then that's different from, I don't know, like, mine or my husband's, it doesn't mean that they don't belong. We don't belong together.

Holly Xing:
We don't share the common commonality which is. I think we all. We want to drink, we want to eat, and we want to enjoy it. What we drink, what we consume should take care of our bodies and should take care of our minds. And it should be something.

Holly Xing:
And also something we share with others. So despite sometimes how it feels, we're more connected than. Than ever. So our fate is really, you know, one fate. We don't have two different worlds. Or maybe in some people's mind, they live in their own world, but we all.

Holly Xing:
We all do, living on this one planet. Right.

Jennifer Norman:
Exactly.

Holly Xing:
And there's even the ocean. I know we have different oceans, Pacific and Atlantic and Indian. But it. When you look at it, it's all connected. It's one body of water.

Jennifer Norman:
Yes.

Holly Xing:
Yeah. So same as the water. I think I believe that all of us are more connected...

Jennifer Norman:
Wow.

Holly Xing:
Than we sometimes believe. Yeah. So that's the the truth I live by. And I do remind myself that of that every day.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. I love your answers. Kindness, it's a privilege to be human. And connectedness.It's just whatever on the top of your head. That's how I like it.

Holly Xing:
Yeah.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. Oh, gosh. You know what? I think that there was something very quietly powerful about this conversation. It reminds us that the smallest choices that we make every day from what we drink, how we nourish ourselves, how we move through the world, these are the things that shape not just how we feel, but who we are becoming. So, Holly, I want to thank you so much for bringing science and soul into this space, for helping us to rethink what it truly means to feel good about ourselves, within ourselves, in our own skin. To everybody listening, maybe the next time you reach for a drink, you'll pause and ask yourself, not just what am I consuming, but what am I creating within myself? It might just make all the difference. I'm Jennifer Norman and this is The Human Beauty Movement Movement Podcast. I'll see you in the next episode.

Holly Xing:
Thank you. Thank you, Jennifer.

Jennifer Norman:
Thank you for listening to The Human Beauty Movement Podcast. Be sure to follow, rate and review us wherever you stream podcasts. The Human Beauty Movement is a community based platform that cultivates the beauty of humankind. Check out our workshops, find us on social media and share our inspiration with all the beautiful human in your life. Learn more at thehumanbeautymovement.com. Thank you so much for being a beautiful human.