The Truth About Neurodiversity, Sensory Overload & Burnout | Nikki Smit, Ep 217

Jennifer Norman:
Ooh. Today's episode is so deeply personal to me. As someone who is passionate about advocating for kids and adults with disabilities, chronic illness, neurodivergence and mental health challenges, and as a mom of a child with complex medical needs, I know firsthand how often people are misunderstood instead of supported and how many beautiful humans move through this world feeling broken simply because their minds and bodies and experience life differently. My guest today is Nikki Smit, a neurodivergent occupational therapist, speaker and educator whose work is transforming the way we understand special needs, sensory experiences, nervous system health, and what it truly means to support human beings compassionately. With more than 15 years of experience supporting families, educators and professional organizations, Nikki brings a deeply human lens to work well being. She helps people understand what their minds and bodies are communicating and why safety, support, pacing, sensory awareness and relationship matter so deeply. In our conversation, we're going to explore the essence of neurodiversity, sensory needs, nervous system health, and how to create inclusive spaces where people can genuinely thrive. If you or someone you love, have, has disabilities or special needs, or if you simply long for a kinder way to relate to yourself and others, then this episode is your safe space. Come on in and join us.

Jennifer Norman:
Nikki, I am so genuinely grateful that you are here today. Welcome.

Nikki Smit:
Thank you so much for having me. What a beautiful way to start my day.

Jennifer Norman:
I am so delighted. And you are streaming in all the way from Singapore. This is such a beautiful global community and I am just so happy because your work touches me so much. It speaks to something that I deeply care about, not just professionally, but personally. So I'd love to begin by sharing with listeners who might be newer to this conversation and. And you, as a person who is living with neurodiversity, how do you personally define neurodiversity? And what do you wish that people understood about neurodiversity?

Nikki Smit:
What a beautiful place to start. So when I think about neurodiversity, there is something really important that comes to mind. We are all neurodiverse. We all have different brains that are wired in different ways, that get excited about different things, that notice different things in the world. And there are also things that our brain makes harder for us. So we are all neurodiverse. The word neurodivergent means something a little bit different, and it is an umbrella term for a whole range of diagnoses. And some of them include what some people might have heard of before.

Nikki Smit:
And I think some of them will maybe surprise some people. So autism is under this umbrella. So is ADHD. And those are two that more and more people are learning about, which is really exciting. And there are also a whole range of other names under that umbrella as well. So things like dyslexia, dyspraxia, which is about your ability to have a plan for your movements and execute your movements and evaluate and then adjust your movements. So that's called dyspraxia.

Nikki Smit:
There are. I mean, we would be here all day if I listed everything off. But even some of the mental health identifications are coming under this umbrella now. So it's actually a pretty inclusive clip cluster. And so it really speaks to how we move through the world and are. And when I think about it, I think it's important to have a really balanced approach when we come to it. I choose that word carefully because it's important. It is both what makes me a strong, sensitive, wonderful human being. And there are challenges that come with it.

Nikki Smit:
And I think it's important that we hold both of these things in mind when we think about neurodivergence.

Jennifer Norman:
Thank you so much for that education. I think that it's so important that we do have the correct language to speak about things and to have a better understanding for sure. Now, as you had mentioned, there are so many different diagnoses. Some of them do overlap. Some of some people have multiple diagnoses within one beautiful body. And along with that does come a wealth of opportunity for people to really get curious about others. I think in the past there might have been a shunning or a judgment that would come first. It's like, oh, that person's acting up or what is wrong with that? And there would always be these negative assumptions about what was going on.

Jennifer Norman:
I think that the more and more that we understand about neurodiversity and neurodiversity, divergent individuals, we have this beautiful way of empathizing and of being compassionate and also being very self reflective. I think it does give us all the opportunity to think about, wow, this is a real opportunity for me to be kind. This is a real opportunity for me to be patient, for me to understand and for me to hold space for somebody else. So I wanted to ask you if you could change certain things about people's beliefs or maybe their understandings or lack of understanding about neurodivergence. What are some of the top things that come to mind for you?

Nikki Smit:
Wow, what a question.

Jennifer Norman:
Too many.

Nikki Smit:
I think that you and I could talk about this topic forever. So I'm so grateful for these questions. For me, curiosity is one of my core values. So when I hear the way you even ask that question, your curiosity lands in me. And I feel the openness to be able to speak to this, which is such a privilege. Right. So I think that if more of us could have that curiosity as we approach each other and approach our challenges and in life, the world would be a different pace. One of my mentors, I'm a little bit of a neuroscience geek, and one of my mentors, one of her favorite things to say is that when we are in curiosity, we can't be in judgment.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah.

Nikki Smit:
It's a different part of the brain. And I think what that asks of us is first to be reflective of ourselves, as you so beautifully said. Because then I can have curiosity for myself and I can have compassion for myself, because diversity lives in all of us. We all have things that are challenging for us. And so coming to an interaction with someone with a question, wondering, what is that person bringing into this interaction? What are they bringing into this conversation? What might they be carrying? Because what we see in front of us is never just that moment. That person comes with a history with experiences just as I am coming into that conversation. And so if we can have that wandering, we're going to have a very different interaction. So that is one of my core hopes, is that we would have more curiosity.

Nikki Smit:
And then I think another thing that I would love to see is more of a encouragement and allowance for people to be in their true essence. I think every human being can relate to feeling the need to put on a mask and mold ourselves into what is more palatable for the world. I think we can all relate to that a little bit. And then if you can imagine that for some of us, we're having to do that all day because we have to perhaps hide a little movement need that I need. And I'm. I'm explaining very subtle things. For some of us, that's really. There's a lot more of that.

Nikki Smit:
But if something is. If an environment is overstimulating for me, I have to find a way to still be there. I have to watch the way I talk. I have to watch where my eyes are while I'm talking. I have to think about the way I see things. That's a lot to be holding all at once. And I think all of us can relate to it a little bit. But imagine then having a more sensitive nervous system and having a very different way of relating to the world and then having to kind of analyze what's expected and then rewire and adjust That's a lot to carry.

Nikki Smit:
It has very high mental health costs. And so I think that awareness, if we could create more spaces where people can be themselves, we would see a very different world.

Jennifer Norman:
Wow. I love that so much because it really does get to the essence of our individual uniqueness and our genius. Our individual genius. And when we start getting so homogeneous and we start saying, okay. And I think that the school systems are getting better at doing this where it used to be just that sit at the desk for so many hours, learn these standardized tests, and it was not doing the children very much good in terms of enabling and unleashing and unfurling the creativity that was within. And so we are getting a little bit better at that. But wouldn't it be incredible if within every person, the whole neurodiverse spectrum, as you will, that we each could have the opportunity to unlock that unique genius that is within us? Wouldn't that be so, so special? Wouldn't that make the world just an explosively beautiful place? I think that that would be so astounding. Now, in some cases it is harder and there.

Jennifer Norman:
To your point, before there are challenges, there are difficulties in that understanding and to know how to best allow somebody else to thrive and have the patience or all of the additional resources that might be needed in order to accommodate and make sure that we are creating inclusive space spaces, that we are creating these atmospheres and these environments that are conducive for individual needs. And so I wanted to ask you a little bit about that. What are you finding in terms of the movement towards more inclusive spaces? What are some of the wins that you have seen? Where do you think that we are still deficient? I'd love to hear a little bit more about that aspect.

Nikki Smit:
So there's a few ways that my brain travels in this question. And a big part of my work has been working with families and children and in schools. Today I support people of all ages, but a long part of my career was in schools. And I think over that time I have seen some shifts in inclusion and in understanding more about people's needs and how we can create inclusive space spaces. And same in the community and in adults, in workplaces. We still have a long way to go. But some of the things that I think I've seen is more of an awareness about how different people approach life and how they might have different needs in their body. I think that sensory health is becoming something that people have a little bit more awareness on.

Nikki Smit:
So as an occupational therapist, I really have a holistic approach to health and well being. And that's one of my favorite things about being an occupational therapist is that I really care about the whole person and I really have a deep understanding of the human body and the sensory systems. And so one of the things that I've seen is a little bit more allowance for people to use some accommodations. So things like being able to use noise canceling headphones in different spaces and awareness of things like that. So maybe conversations happening around how people communicate in different ways and understanding that some people communicate better if they have certain types of information or if they can communicate via email, or if they can have a list of questions before they enter an interview. We're slowly, slowly becoming more accommodating, but we have a long way to go, for sure.

Jennifer Norman:
I can tell you, when I bring my son out, there are certain places that I go that are so delightful because a lot of the, whether it be customer service, individuals, people, employees, they are so well trained and they know how to really accommodate for people with special needs. I'll give a shout out to Disneyland and Anaheim because they are just absolutely incredible when it comes to helping and providing some additional assistance for kids with special needs. And then there are other places where I'm like, oh, gosh, this is just disappointing.

Nikki Smit:
We can do better, guys.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, these stairs getting up, you know, or you know, an elevator's broken, or people who park in handicapped spots that don't necessarily have placards, things like that, which are a little disappointing. And so the more awareness that we can bring to the needs of others and just respect for all humanity, frankly, I think it, it definitely goes a long way. And one thing that I also wanted to mention, when son was young and we used to bring him out and here he is, he's got a trach, he had an NG tube coming out of his nose. And the kids would be. There were young children that would come right up to him and be like, what's wrong with that boy? And the parents would be mortified. And I would pretty much say it's okay, it's okay to ask. I know some people might get upset and offended by the bluntness of that, but I would rather a person ask and normalize the disability and so that that person, that child grows up not being afraid of it. When the parent shushes or tries to keep the son or the daughter away from my child and be like, don't be rude, don't be rude.

Jennifer Norman:
I think that that's a learning opportunity for adults is to say, okay, this is what this is. And it's okay to ask polite questions. It's okay to go up and say hello. I mean, in the very least, smiling and saying hello goes such a long way and just makes everybody feel kinder and more included. Right.

Nikki Smit:
It, like, acknowledges your humanness.

Jennifer Norman:
Yes.

Nikki Smit:
It's like, I see you. And I think having questions is beautiful. It's a curiosity. Right. And we can learn a lot from those kids. I have watched some of the little ones I support really teach their teachers, teach their parents, teach me as a neurodivergent adult about how we can educate and advocate for each other. It is so moving. And I think that if we make that the baseline of we can ask each other questions, we're going to talk about differences.

Nikki Smit:
When did it become that being different is a flaw? I mean, it is the different minds in this world who change it. It is the different minds in this world who enhance us as a society. We need all different kinds of ways of being. So I think if we can start from that young age of encouraging that. And I encourage families to have books about disability and differences, read stories, watch films about it, visit places where there's people of all different kinds. It is. Diversity is everywhere.

Jennifer Norman:
I'll do a shameless plug for my book series, which is called the Adventures of SuperCaptainBraveMan, which we did launch out of that whole experience with my son as we were growing up. And we thought what a great opportunity there would be to write children's books that would help educate parents as well as kids and family members, the community about what it's like to have a disability and what it's like to be friends with somebody who is living with disability. So we have about 10 books in the series now, and the first one is about general disability. We have one that is specific to autism, another one which is specific to down syndrome. We have books that are on type 1 diabetes, even service animals, what nurses do, mitochondrial disorder. We are coming out with a new one which does touch on oncology and cancer, which is exciting. We're gonna come out with that this year. But we also did start publishing books for other families too, who wished to share their stories.

Jennifer Norman:
And I do want to mention one great one which is all about neurodiversity that we introduced last year called That's My Sister. And it follows the story of two beautiful girls. They are twins, Alana and Adriana. Adriana is neurotypical and Alana is neurodivergent. And it talks about how they had grown up and the love that these two have the same special bond. And I think that that's one thing that anybody in the disability community will likely say is that it is a blessing. It teaches you lessons. And there's so much love and joy that comes with just really knowing that there's strength and there's this unconditionality about the care and the support that you can get and in helping somebody that may need a little bit more support and in just really helping other people to understand what it means with movement and with different kinds of skills and different ways of communicating, it's really quite beautiful.

Jennifer Norman:
So I'll put those links in the show notes for anybody who might be interested. We do ship globally.

Nikki Smit:
I'm definitely adding those to my bookshelf.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, wonderful. Yes, please do. And we also do have ebooks, too. So if anybody is interested at SuperCaptainBraveMan.com is where you can find the books and the merch and all of that. But it is such a beautiful opportunity to help normalize abilities and the differences and the diversity at an early age, so that there is no shame. I think that that's one thing that has perhaps started to come a little bit further is that as we see the rise in autism, adhd, these different kinds of diagnoses, is that there used to be such shame about having kids that are. Might have been downs or epileptic or something like that.

Jennifer Norman:
And we are starting to, as a culture, embrace it, which is lovely. And being able to actually go out and see kids that are different and being open to having parents and families with neurodivergent children out in the world, to me, it's beautiful to see, because in the past, we're talking about 30, 40 years ago, it was something that was kind of kept secret. It was something that was kind of just kept close to the vest. But I think that with more understanding and more compassion, we will. We'll allow more inclusive spaces. We'll allow more inclusive communities and a more inclusive world.

Nikki Smit:
It also. It allows people to go and seek out diagnoses and support because we're opening these conversations up, right?

Jennifer Norman:
Yes.

Nikki Smit:
It's an interesting question. Oh, there's a rise in. That's a big conversation at the moment. Oh, there's so many people are getting an ADHD diagnosis and an autism diagnosis. And what is that about? Well, I think one piece is that we know more, and so now people can actually go and get the support that they need. And how awesome is that?

Jennifer Norman:
It's definitely true. I think that, yeah, if people didn't know where to turn or didn't know what to call it. It definitely helps to be able to def. And I think that that's part of it. There are spectrums and there's overlaps. As we were mentioning. I do think that it's really wonderful for people to say, oh, this is what's going on now. I know how to support it, not necessarily fix it.

Jennifer Norman:
And we'll talk about that in a moment too, because I know that that's a big thing. I am a person who has come a long way in being a parent of my child. I thought that it was my job to fix, to fix, to fix, to fix. But it's not. It's my job to love, to love, to love, to love. And that makes all the difference. So I would love to hear your perspective on when you hear, okay, can I fix this? Can I fix this autism? Can I fix this ADHD? What is your perspective?

Nikki Smit:
I hold us all gently in this answer. I mean, so beautifully said. I think you've said it right. We can't fix autism, we can't fix ADHD. It is part of that person. Being neurodivergent is part of my identity. It is woven into the fibers of my being. I will always be neurodivergent and proudly so.

Nikki Smit:
I wouldn't change it for the world, right? I know that having a sensitive way of being in this world is very hard sometimes. And it is also what makes me a brilliant friend, a daughter, a excellent therapist because of the way I see the world. And so when this deficits based view, thinking about only the things that are hard for me come into the conversation, it is really hard not to feel shame and self blame in that conversation. And it's only one side. It isn't the full picture. Because yes, there are things that are very hard and I hope that I continue to grow and evolve until I take my last breath. And I know I will because that is how the human mind works. It can continue to change.

Nikki Smit:
We can continue to lay down new pathways until the end. And it doesn't mean that I have to change the core of who I am.

Jennifer Norman:
Right?

Nikki Smit:
I want things to be easier for me. I want greater ease in my being. I don't need to change or fix who I am. You are enough exactly as you are. And there's more.

Jennifer Norman:
And there's more. I think that that seems to be something that people had been just automatically trained to do is like, okay, if things are going well, look for the one thing that has gone wrong. It's like, this is what you need to, like, focus on that weakness. We need to strengthen that weakness. And they almost look at some sort of neurodivergency as a weakness or a problem to fix. And wouldn't it be amazing if we could look at all the things that were right? I remember a doctor actually said that to me and it blew my mind because so many doctors are looking for, like, how can we look for the thing that is wrong? We're going to try to test to rule out this and this and this and this. But one doctor actually looked at my son and he looked at me and he said all the things that are right. Look at all the things that are going well.

Jennifer Norman:
Look at all the things that his body can really do. Like he can still thinking he's able to breathe with some support, he's able to do this. His body is like moving food through his. It's like, if you think about it, how incredible is it, all of these things that are going right? And I said, thank you. That was just such a beautiful statement to make from a doctor that is. It's a very unconventional thing to hear.

Nikki Smit:
And my question to you would be, how do you feel as a parent hearing that?

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, yeah. Believe you me, I've been in so many meetings, even one just a couple of weeks ago, where the individual looked at me and she said, have you thought about what's going to happen in an afterlife sort of a situation? And I said, can we talk about this when my son is not in the room? You know, it's just. Yeah, it's challenging because I think that some people just think that they can't hear, they can't think for themselves. They can't. And so there's a whole lot of assumptions that go along. I mean, and no blame or shame to people who say this either. It's just an education point to, say, treat the person as if they are in the room, as if they can hear and understand everything that you're saying. And that is one big lesson that I think is wonderful for anybody.

Jennifer Norman:
Unless somebody were to tell you otherwise and say, oh, this is introduce yourself to the person. And if there's no response, then you can look at the caretaker or just say things that you would ordinarily say to a regular person, a neurotypical person, and not bring up what to do after life because of aging or something to that effect. Yeah, I'm sure that you've probably heard it all.

Nikki Smit:
You're so gracious and there's so much love in your handing and holding of that experience. And I'm so grateful for human beings like you. I know that it is a choice that we make every day to have those views because, my goodness, it is painful sometimes some of the things that one hears. And yeah, it is.

Jennifer Norman:
I was going to mention, and this is many years of me being able to overcome and to have learned about the opportunities that I had to not get offended and the opportunities that I had as a parent to always show the joy, to show the positive, and to be that individual that was going to be about love and light, because it was. I mean, the first several years were extremely hard. There were IEPs, which are the individual education plans for those that don't know the acronym IEP where I would just sit and cry. And it was very hard. It was hard to hear about what your son cannot do. It's hard to hear those things. But I think over time, you learn to appreciate all the things that are there that are present. The love, the joy and all of those things.

Jennifer Norman:
And so for those that are going through a hard time, I mean, this is not to say, oh, be happy about everything. Yeah, you deserve to feel any kind of grief or any kind of feelings that you feel. And so that I don't want to discount or diminish that at all, this podcast here is really to hold your hand through all of those different phases of your journey of whether it be acceptance or understanding, and really diving in deep into your own self, into your own soul about capacities and willingness and energies and things that you need for support and that you need for. For self care. Because Lord knows I had to check out of life for like normal living and normal working for many, many years because it's just something that I needed to do for myself. So I appreciate you, you saying that, Nikki, for sure. I do. I absolutely do.

Jennifer Norman:
And I also want the audience to know that, believe you me, there have been many occasions where I wanted to punch people in the face.

Nikki Smit:
Absolutely. Those feelings are so important. I think it's really. I really love that you bring listeners into that because it is a cycle. Right. There is. Those feelings are important because they're what drive you to advocate for your son. They are what drive you to have this space where you are advocating and now you're bringing this message to ears that would never hear it otherwise.

Nikki Smit:
Right. And that changes the future for the world that your son grows up in, that people that souls that haven't even come to this earth yet grow up in. Right. And so, yeah, that drive, I think that if we can use those difficult emotions like anger and grief and see them as information that can channel other things. Because what I hear when you speak is great wisdom in that skill and that then you can experience those emotions and then you can process them. And I am sure that it's a day to day thing. You know, that's why I really emphasize the kind of way I admire it, because I know it's a choice, because I've had to make similar choices in my life every day. And I think one of the things that has helped me in that I...

Nikki Smit:
A big part of my work is supporting space holders. So supporting people that care for others. So whether that's therapists, teachers, parents and other professionals. And so I do a lot of education, a lot of mentoring, a lot of speaking on this work. And one of the things that has really helped me is to think about if I can put my mind in their mind for a second and think about what they're carrying. A lot of us were trained that our role is to fix. That's what my training was. Identify the problem, what can we do to solve it? And it's actually kind of a little unfair on the professional in that way to have this role where they are responsible for fixing something that actually doesn't always need to be fixed.

Nikki Smit:
Right?

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, yeah. It's not a broken bone.

Nikki Smit:
And so there is. It's not like a broken bone. Right. And so if we can think about, wow, what must they be carrying or where are they in their journey? And everyone is doing the best they can with their life experience, the training that they had, the knowledge and information they have in that moment. And so I try to have a little bit of compassion for those people. And then I also know that by me being with them and me being in the way that I am as a human being, that I live and breathe, love for others, inclusion where I can. And that's also a daily journey. Right.

Nikki Smit:
I am still learning about that, that through being that way in the world, that that impacts others. And yes, I will challenge as well, but sometimes it's just being present in that way. Right?

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. Oh, so well said. And it speaks to this point about how you talk about, well, being as not just staying calm, but as having the capacity to stay present through those experience. And I do think that that is such a profound reframe. So I wanted to go a little bit deeper to have you unpack what you think that means so that people really see the difference there.

Nikki Smit:
Sure. One of my favorite questions. So I think that as a society, somewhere along the line we were sold this idea that being well means the absence of challenge, of hard feelings, of difficult emotions, of pain. And the reality is that that doesn't exist. Part of the human experience is challenge is pain. In fact, it is at that edge of those experiences that we grow and we expand as human beings. So I think this idea that there's this place we're going to do enough breathing exercises, enough yoga, enough self care, enough personal development, to reach this perfect Zen space where we never experience or are never shaken or moved by things, it's simply untrue. And I think that's part of the problem.

Nikki Smit:
There's this Buddhist idea of the two arrows that people might be familiar with. So it says that the first arrow is the pain itself, but the second arrow is the belief that you shouldn't have the pain, and that's what causes suffering. And so I think that in reality, the science. Now I will speak a little bit to the science, because that's important. The science shows that emotions rise, they peak, and they fall. So they're kind of like waves, and they move through us. And the way that they actually move is through our attention and acknowledgement to it, so through our validation of the feeling.

Nikki Smit:
And that's not just in your mind. Oh, okay, I'm angry. Yes. Tick. Move on. I do that all the time. Oh, I'm overwhelmed. Okay.

Nikki Smit:
Yeah. Got to get over it. That's not really bringing validation to it. What really is noticing an emotion is maybe finding a word for it. That often comes later. But first, where do I feel that in my body? Oh, I feel it in my chest. That really hits me in my chest. I'm overwhelmed.

Nikki Smit:
Okay. Overwhelmed is, like, not really the best descriptor. What else do I have? Oh, it's grief. It's painful. Or for many neurodivergent folks, those feeling words are hard to reach or they don't fully capture it. Right. Like, I don't feel like those words always fully capture my experience. So maybe it's a color or maybe it's a scene that I see.

Nikki Smit:
Maybe it's like a big stormy day, or maybe it's a stormy day, but there's some sunshine. And that kind of giving language to your experience and giving attention to where it is in your body. In 90 seconds, the chemistry of the emotion moves by itself.

Jennifer Norman:
Wow.

Nikki Smit:
If we don't give it that attention, it can stay in the body forever. So it really isn't about jumping. We jump straight to making the feeling go away, to being calm. The feelings are not bad. They're information.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. So instead of avoiding the emotion, really speak to it, because that's where the healing will happen. There are things that we loop back, like years, things that have happened in our childhood, things that have happened. And so this is not just for neurodivergent, what we would consider neurodivergent individuals, but this is for everybody, is to understand and appreciate those moments. And that's why you say, stay present in it, I believe.

Nikki Smit:
Exactly.

Jennifer Norman:
And yeah, feel it. Feel in your body. Put some language to it.

Nikki Smit:
Exactly. The piece that is important also is if you think, if you actually time 90 seconds, it can feel like a really long time. And so sometimes we have to. We call it titrate. We have to do little bits at a time. And often it is in the presence of a safe person that perhaps feels wiser and safe to you, that can help you feel the edges and the safety of that emotion. And that's where we then are able to be present to it. When we are helping someone else be present to it, we are showing them how they can do that for themselves as well.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, Nikki, I love the way that you speak, the work that you're doing, the education that you're helping to provide people on how they're feeling, how to coexist beautifully in harmony with ourselves as well as with everybody on the neuroscience neurodiverse spectrum, and just helping to make the world a kinder, more compassionate place. I so appreciate everything that you stand for, and I have a feeling we're going to be lifelong friends.

Nikki Smit:
I think so. I think so.

Jennifer Norman:
I feel like we'll probably need a part two to this, but now that we're coming to a close, I do ask my guests three questions to close off. My first question for you is, what do you think makes you beautiful?

Nikki Smit:
Ah. I was not expecting that question. I think that what makes me beautiful is the way that my mind works and the way that I see the world and connect to people.

Jennifer Norman:
Yes. And I would concur. My second question, what do you think that it means to be human?

Nikki Smit:
Ah. Oh, the messiness of being human. I think that it means being connected to self, connected to other and connected to the world.

Jennifer Norman:
Connection is key. And my final question, what is one truth that you live by?

Nikki Smit:
The biggest gift you can give anyone is the permission to be themselves and to be loved and seen for that.

Jennifer Norman:
I love that so much. Oh, this conversation was so incredibly meaningful. Your answers are so lovely. It's going to resonate deeply with me for a long time as I'm sure it will with all of the listeners. So thank you Nikki for everything that you're doing and sharing your wisdom with us today everybody. To learn more about Nikki and her work please visit ProjectPlay.sg and also look for Nikki Smit (https://www.instagram.com/nikkismittherapy/) on Instagram. Thanks everybody for listening today. If this episode touched your heart, please share it with someone who might need to hear it. Subscribe for more conversations that remind us what it truly means to be human. I'm Jennifer Norman and this is the Human Beauty Movement Podcast. I'll see you in the next episode.

Jennifer Norman:
Thank you for listening to The Human Beauty Movement Podcast. Be sure to follow, rate and review us wherever you stream podcasts. The Human Beauty Movement is a community based platform that cultivates the beauty of humankind. Check out our workshops, find us on social media and share our inspiration with all the beautiful humans in your life. Learn more at thehumanbeautymovement.com. Thank you so much for being a beautiful human.