The Truth About Tarot, Intuition & Past Lives | Kelly O'Hearn, Ep 220

Jennifer Norman:
I could not be more excited for this conversation. Beautiful humans, we are going to get knee deep in the Whoopla, which is my favorite place to be. My guest today is Kelly O', Hearn, a master intuitive channeler and tarot reader whose clients span almost every continent. Before becoming one of the most sought after tarot practitioners in the world, Kelly had a successful career as a wine professional working in elite institutions, institutions from New York City to Portugal and Aspen. Now, as a tarot reader who is consistently blown away by the divination accuracy that the cards hold, Kelly believes that some of our greatest fears, relationships, gifts and recurring life patterns may be echoes from lives we've lived before. And whether you believe in past lives or not, her story is a powerful reminder that reinvention has no explanation. Expiration date at age 52, she launched a global tarot business. At 57, she wrote her first novel.

Jennifer Norman:
And now she is celebrating the release of book three in her best selling Arcanum series, a collection of novels inspired by profound past life experiences she uncovered through her own tarot practice. In this conversation, we are exploring what tarot really is and what it isn't. The difference between tarot and Oracle cards, whether the future can actually be predicted, how Kelly transformed her life through intuition, and why it's never too late to begin again. This episode is your invitation to get curious about spirituality, storytelling and your own next chapter. We're going to offer you wisdom, possibility, and permission to trust the unfolding of your path. So let's welcome Kelly O'Hearn to the show. Hi there, Kelly. How are you today?

Kelly O'Hearn:
Hi, Jennifer. I'm good. I'm happy to be with you.

Jennifer Norman:
I am really, really excited, as I had mentioned in the opening, because I really found so many deep and profound truths about myself, some unfoldings about my life through the power and the message that came through in tarot, as well as other kinds of spiritual modal. But I, like you, have been blown away by what comes through in the cards. It's really been absolutely astonishing in some cases. So the first thing that I wanted to ask you was what do you think that listeners would take away from our conversation today and some of the things that you've learned in the unfolding of your path?

Kelly O'Hearn:
Well, I think the listeners are really going to start to understand in a much more practical way the accessibility of one's intuition, the accessibility of one's energetic, what I call our energetic body, our own energetic field. tarot is a divination tool that speaks to that field. It's a Language, in my opinion. So we'll teach them about that language. Just like Italian, German, Mandarin are languages. tarot is a language. It's just a language of divination about your energy, the vibration and frequency you're emitting into the field. So that's number one.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Number two is even though I do what I do and it is considered woo or all these little phrases that people say, and I hope most people have skepticism, I think skepticism is a really, really healthy trait for a human being to have. I just ask for curiosity. That's the only distinguishing factor that I request. As long as you're curious about things and are willing to listen, you don't have to agree, you don't have to adopt what you and I love, tarot, a spiritual journey, all these things. But there's so much to be learned and to consider and really feel what resonates with you as a listener. And consider, well, wow, that really landed as. That felt like truth to me. I need to investigate that further for myself.

Kelly O'Hearn:
And what doesn't land and resonate within you, just move it to the side. That's totally okay. And then lastly, I'm really passionate about the whole idea of and the misconception of aging in this country. In the western cultures, especially in America, we have a very poor relationship with our elderly population. They're not revered, they're not considered sages and all the things that many other cultures distinguish them as. But I'm 60, I'm turning 60 this year. And I'm here to tell you, you never age out of relevance, you never age out of possibility. It's never too late.

Kelly O'Hearn:
And with a little tender loving care, everything is possible.

Jennifer Norman:
So many beautiful themes in what you just said. So there's so much richness that is about to be unfolded for all of us. I, interestingly enough, found myself very, very scared. Not just skeptical, but because I had been brough in a very religious kind of like a Roman Catholic and then gone into a born again Christian type of faith. I was taught to be fearful and to shun anything that seemed like it was from the occult, anything that was different in that way, or a divination tool that was other than the Bible. And so for the longest time I had like this big just fear. I can't call it anything other than like fear and denouncement of anything tarot. Until I learned a little bit more about just the basis of religion and the thought that there's more that unifies us than should be separating us.

Jennifer Norman:
And I think that that's true for the soul and spirituality. And this is so different for everybody's journey. But for me, I found so much more meaning in the essence of spirituality as is entangled with humanity so beautifully and the lessons that can be learned in all sorts of faiths and all sorts of truths, and being in touch with my intuition as a spiritual practice, rather than shunning it or closing it aside or saying, no, this is wrong, this is right. There's only one way to do this that is absolutely wrong. And so I embraced tarot as a tool of divination. And I do find it actually, there's a bit of entertainment value, certainly, I think, that a lot of people find 100%. Yeah, yeah, there's definitely that. And then there's also the curiosity that it peaks within yourself at any given moment, at any given time.

Jennifer Norman:
So I would love to hear about your journey with tarot because I think that you have a different, special journey, and it does tap into something that you had learned about your intuition, maybe in your career path as well, and then came into it differently. Can you share that with us? Sure.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Well, like you, I was raised Roman Catholic. And in my upbringing, I was born and raised in New York City and the surrounding areas. My parents were both financiers. Amazing people. I have a really, really wonderful family history and past. But tarot was not part of the lexicon of my family. You didn't do tarot in my family. Right.

Kelly O'Hearn:
You either, like, you went to business school, you got an mba, maybe became an attorney. Those were kind of the language of our land, in our home. So fast forward through my life. And I got married, I have two children, all the things. And I found myself at 45 years old, all of a sudden, out of the blue. I'm not kidding. It was maybe three days, and I found myself really, really ill. I was still married.

Kelly O'Hearn:
My children were young, single, both single digits still, and I was undiagnosable. Jennifer. They couldn't diagnose me with anything, which was great. I mean, I'm glad it wasn't cancer or something really catastrophic. But we now know to call it one of these autoimmune breakdowns. But at the time in 2012, they didn't have that language.

Jennifer Norman:
Right.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Allopathic medicine. So, long story short, I had to figure out how to heal myself, and I had to use homeopaths and allopaths and natural medicines. The medical institution of the west, which is great if you need, like a surgery or something, couldn't help heal me. So I did. And as A result, I reconnected to my body in a way which was really profound. And I really started to tap back into the miracle of this vessel, the miracle of our capacity to heal. In the process of doing that, I realized I couldn't be in my marriage anymore. And then I found out that my father was dying.

Kelly O'Hearn:
So you have all these foundational trap doors open. The safety of my body, who had been challenged. The sanctity and safety of marriage and husband and family was crumbling. And then my primary male role model and masculine role model was dying. So in that time, I was in what I call a free fall. And I was in a store one day, and there was a tarot card reader in the store. And I'd never done it. I knew what it was.

Kelly O'Hearn:
I'd heard of it, but I'd never done it. And I asked the gentleman who owned the store, what's the draw? Why the line of people waiting to have their tarot cards read? And he took me over to his display of decks that he sold. And he explained to me, it's a language. It helps you understand the self better, your humanity, where you are in relationship to life physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. So I bought a deck. I thought, what the hell? This would be cool. It came with a nice book that I could learn and read. And I love to read.

Kelly O'Hearn:
And it was a secret. I kept it a secret. No one knew for three and a half years. And I just jumped into the deep end. I read every book. I found people on YouTube to watch. I just practiced and practiced on myself. And the reason it was such a gift, I had no intention of doing anything with it.

Kelly O'Hearn:
I had no intention of ever telling anybody. It was a complete escape mechanism from my life, from the divorce, from my father's subsequent passing, from all of that. Well, it literally in by using the tarot and learning the tarot through this really tumultuous chapter, I came out stronger on the other end. I learned myself better than I ever had before. I found my voice again. I remembered who I was. Now, that also comes part and parcel to a divorce process. But it was the most incredible relationship that I had built in a really long time.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Like, I have a relationship with my decks. I know that sounds ridiculous, but I just do. So when I finally came out of the tarot closet and told people, I was just.

Jennifer Norman:
I know.

Kelly O'Hearn:
I mean, that's what I attribute it to, That I am not insulting any gay or lesbian or whatever person, however they identify. And whenever their courageous moment comes to tell the truth of who they are. That's how I felt. I was really afraid of ridicule and judgment.

Jennifer Norman:
Sure.

Kelly O'Hearn:
And that my family would be like. Like, oh, my God, she's lost her mind.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah.

Kelly O'Hearn:
But it was so warmly embraced, and I formed my business in 2018 because everybody loved my readings, and now it's my primary income and career.

Jennifer Norman:
That is incredible. Bravo. Bravo for coming through all of that in order to really come out stronger, because that really is such an inspiring message. I think of The Human Beauty Movement of anybody's life journey, that there's light at the end of the tunnel, but the work has to be done in some way. Yeah. It really is a calling to kind of look deeper.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Look, it is... And I can tell you it is a perfect example. I have complete faith in the fact if you let go of the steering wheel a little bit and don't try to control outcomes so much in your life, God, the divine, the universe, I call it consciousness, will guide you to the best possible outcome. I could never have planned this if I tried. I could never have even deigned to imagine it.

Jennifer Norman:
I think a lot of people think that when we say, okay, let go or just let it happen, they think, well, that. Does that mean giving up? There's a very significant difference in that. It's just like releasing control is not the same thing as giving up.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Never, never give up. Why would you ever give up now? Some things have to end, but that's different than giving up. The energy of making a really heartfelt, logical, smart decision to end something and pivot. That has to happen all the time in life. But giving up is a very different, energetic frequency that you're putting out into the field. And it's very much from a victim standpoint.

Jennifer Norman:
Right.

Kelly O'Hearn:
So I caution people to even just be careful of the language you use in situations when you are in challenge and you do feel stuck and you need to shift, you have to make a change. Try not to shame yourself with the idea that you're giving up.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, absolutely. So let's talk about the difference first in what some people might go to a... Back in the day, it was newspapers and magazines. When you look for, oh, okay. What is your astrological reading of the day? What is your horoscope reading? So tell us what the difference between doing, like, a horoscope reading of that sort is versus a tarot reading.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Well, I mean, obviously, horoscopes and magazines. It's like when I do a reading of the week on my Instagram page for the collective, it's impossible for me to channel for every person that's going to watch that video. Right. A magazine horoscope is just a broad, very broad generalization of the, of what's possible for your sign that month, that week, whatever it is. But if you do your birth natal chart with an astrologer knowing your date and time, your day and time of birth, you will get a really beautiful in depth understanding of the map of the cosmos at the very moment of your birth. And that can very much help you understand themes, trends, personality traits, a lot of things about you. Tarot... The way I use tarot now, there are many, many people that do it differently.

Kelly O'Hearn:
And that's the beauty of tarot is it can be adapted according to a person's needs, wants and preferences. The way I do tarot is I don't pretend to tell the future, I don't believe in telling the future. But the reason I have such a great track record is that my tarot readings will make you an energetic match for the desires you have. Most of the time someone you know, no one comes to me when life is going swimmingly. Right. There's some sort of conflict. Yeah, I mean those are just, I don't get those people and that's great. But most of the things are I want to have be in love or I'm getting a divorce, I need more money, will I get the job? Should I make the move? It involves some sort of confusion and fear about the future.

Kelly O'Hearn:
So I'm not here to tell you what that future will be, but what I am here to do is work with you and the energy and vibration you are emitting into the field in order to raise it to the point where you are a match for higher vibrational outcome. Love, peace, abundance, those things can't come from a place of fear.

Jennifer Norman:
Right.

Kelly O'Hearn:
If you think about it, when we are in fear, we can really contract and we really pull in energetically and we're so grippy.

Jennifer Norman:
I mean, look at my hands.

Kelly O'Hearn:
There's no room for God to push anything through. So by raising your vibration, I'm not saying you have to like flap wings. You just create a little space around you. And now energy can flow and things can happen and momentum comes and change occurs and results are delightful. It's the law of the land. It's one of the primarily like, it's a seven universal truths of this third dimensional reality.

Jennifer Norman:
So let's talk about the tarot deck and some of the more basic specifics of it and then we can go a little bit further into how somebody interprets so could you share with us just the basic about the major and then the minors?

Kelly O'Hearn:
Yeah. It's a 78 card deck divided into two categorical themes. The major arcana are the first 22 cards of the deck. Starts with 0, ends with the card 21, with The World. Those are very high characteristics and qualities of a human life. When major arcana cards come out in a reading, it's very much of an indicator that the question on the table, whatever the query is, is important to that soul. Now, the remaining cards are the minor arcana, which are. They're four suits, just like in a playing card deck.

Kelly O'Hearn:
But the four suits of the tarot align with the four parts of what it is to be human. You have the suit of the physical, the suit of the mental, the suit of the emotional, and the suit of the spiritual, or what I call energetic. So the way the cards fall forms a narrative. It forms a sentence. Because each card has a specific meaning. It can have different meanings depending upon the cards around it. It can have different meanings if it's upright or in reverse, things like that.

Kelly O'Hearn:
For instance, in language, if I say I love the color blue, we all know what I'm talking about. But I can also say I feel blue. So same word, different meanings. Very similar with tarot. But so the way tarot works and the reason we're called readers, you're a reader, I'm a reader, is we translate the language of the cards to our client, our friend, whoever we're ourselves, whoever we're doing a reading for. So that's kind of the basic nuts and bolts of tarot.

Jennifer Norman:
Thank you so much for that. Now, when we talk about the major arcana, it starts with the first card it's The Fool. And a lot of people, when you first... It's funny because there's so much meaning as you learn about these. But some people will pull The Fool and they'll be like, oh, I don't like this card or what it stands for. At the same with, for example, The Tower, where it's like, you know, you see this tower, it's flames. Everything is just falling apart and it looks bad or The Devil, things like that. People are like, oh, this is a terrible.

Jennifer Norman:
They think automatically this is a terrible card. But your perspective or others perspectives might be... Well, not necessarily. And some people think that some readers will say The Fool is the most powerful card because it's the beginning. So can you share some of the things that you might have learned along the way about some of the... You don't have to go through all. All of them, of course..

Kelly O'Hearn:
No, we don't have enough time.

Jennifer Norman:
Of course not. But are there any nuances or things that you learned about the cards that may be not what somebody thinks when they first see the card?

Kelly O'Hearn:
Oh, my gosh. I mean, 100%. Like you said, let's just take The Devil. The name in and of itself evokes fear simply from programming from our youth. Satan, the devil. Scary. Like bad, bad, bad, bad. In my opinion and in my experience, and my truth is that there is not one bad card in tarot.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Remember, tarot is not here for. To tell you what's happening. It's information, it's divination, it's understanding. So sometimes the devil is such a gift because it's here to tell you somewhere in your life, somewhere in this experience of what we're talking about. Love, career, abundance, health, you are in fear and you have cauterized flow. So it's really, really a helpful card.

Jennifer Norman:
Mm.

Kelly O'Hearn:
It can also help us understand perhaps you're in a relationship with someone that's toxic for you, that you are in a toxic dance together. And. And that's a really helpful thing to know because it's not that you have to leave the relationship, but the energy of it has to change. So, yes, our first human response to certain things, especially the graphics. I mean, in the Rider Waite deck, which is the classic deck, there's some really gruesome graphics, like the ten of swords. These ten swords in the back of this man who's dead on the ground, bleeding out. Like, it's aggressive. But there is nothing to be afraid of in any of the cards.

Kelly O'Hearn:
It's just information and really helpful.

Jennifer Norman:
Now, when we start talking about the other cards that are very similar to the four suits of playing cards you said it's very much the physical, the mental, the emotional, and then either spiritual or energetic.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Pentacles is physical. Swords is mental. Cups is emotional. Wands is spiritual.

Jennifer Norman:
Wands is spiritual. Okay, so it's different from what I had learned. So tell me about if somebody is reading something about a physical nature. Yes. Let's just use that as an example. And some. It's funny because somebody had also told me that the pentacles is about money because of the coins and because of diamonds. Yes.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Which is physical. It's anything here in this third dimensional reality.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, okay.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Our bodies, our jobs, our home, our money. Anything that has matter, you know?

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. And then you've got like The Page and The Knight, and then you've got the pretty much from 1 to 10, I believe, within the deck. So how would one be able to interpret if they, they were to pull up a Page versus a 10, for example, within the physical.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Okay, so if you get the 10 of pentacles versus the page of pentacles, now 10, by its very design, in numerology as well as in the tarot, is about completion.

Jennifer Norman:
Completion.

Kelly O'Hearn:
It's a very robust energy. It's about kind of the completion of an experience in that particular suit. So the 10 of pentacles, in my opinion, is actually is the best card in the entire deck. It's about having abundance and completion in all things. Home, hearth, money, safety, family, dogs, multi generational joy, all of those things. So that's a really lovely card to pull. And it's very much of a message, depending upon what you're asking about, that things are coming to fruition and it will be a pleasant experience.

Kelly O'Hearn:
The Pages are the youngest of the four court cards. Every suit in the tarot has a page, a knight, a queen and a king. The Pages are what I call the teenagers in the deck. Inquisitive, curious, a bit impulsive, could be a little reckless sometimes, but in a fun way, never from a place of wanting to cause harm. So the Page of Pentacles is about a studious, inquisitive energy. Perhaps it's especially like something new will be ascertained. A new opportunity is going to land in someone's physical experience of life. It's a very, very good talisman for the most part, the pages.

Jennifer Norman:
And then as far as the energy cards or the spiritual cards, how would somebody interpret this? The, say a Page versus somebody who's at a completion of an energy card? How would you say the difference would be for them?

Kelly O'Hearn:
So, yes, and that's a very good question because the tens and the Pages are very different, especially with the suits being different. So the 10 of wands versus the 10 of pentacles. The 10 of wands. Look, physics proves this. What I'm about to say is a scientific truth, which really helps me as someone who has a business mind.

Jennifer Norman:
Okay.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Everything starts with our energy. Everything you experience in your life, from ease and joy to conflict and difficulty, starts with you. It's nobody else's fault. It's nothing else's fault. The wands is to me, my favorite suit in the tarot because it's the biggest tell of where I'm getting in my own way as an energetic being. So the 10 of wands, I love that card because where I've been having energetic blockages. For instance, I want to get a bonus at work, but I'm emitting a vibration of lack and unworthiness unconsciously.

Kelly O'Hearn:
But the ten of wands tells me energetically, I am releasing that old pattern, perhaps of a fear of lack, and I am opening myself up to a new experience energetically, which will then bring whatever it is I desire more easily. To me. Now, the page of wands is a bit more impulsive than the page of Pentacles. The Page of Pentacles is much more practical. Guarded, timid, a little safe, a little more slow, same as the knights. But pages aren't about movement. But the page of wands is a little bit more impulsive. Remember, wands is our energetic body.

Kelly O'Hearn:
It's also our fire element. So it's about passion and what fulfills us. So the page of wands is just spontaneous and impulsive, and it's very much an indicator that it's time to do something a little outside of your comfort zone. And not reckless, not dangerous, but push your own boundaries a little bit. Say yes when you would want to say no. That kind of thing.

Jennifer Norman:
That is really, really cool. The other thing that I was always curious about, tarot, there are so many decks. There is so much art. There's so many kinds. I mean, from Rider Waite, which is considered, I guess, the OG, the classic one. But there's like a botanical deck. There's a rebels deck. There's so many different kinds.

Jennifer Norman:
Are we to interpret those differently because of the artwork on them? How do you pick a deck? I know that you've probably got many. Yeah. Is it like, okay, this is how I feel today. This is something that speaks to me. What would somebody, if they wanted to explore various decks, how would you say they would go through a selection and what might they mean?

Kelly O'Hearn:
So if you're just starting out with tarot, I really do recommend learning with the Rider Waite and using reference books or videos that use that deck, the illustrations and everything. It's the quickest way to both visually as well as mentally learn the language. But after that, after you're more comfortable with the language and the meanings of the cards. To answer your question, yes, there are thousands of deck creators and thousands of decks, and the illustrations are very important to the interpretation of the card. Now, the card means what it means, and every tarot deck, regardless of the deck creator and illustrations, have the exact same 78 cards. There will be a 10 of pentacles and a 10 and a page of pentacles in every deck. But the illustrations, for instance, for me, some give my decks much more of a masculine energy vibe or a feminine energy vibe. Like I have the floral tarot, which to me is much more of a feminine energy vibe, just because of the way this woman beautifully illustrated it.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Ciro Marchetti, who's a very prolific card deck creator. His decks are always very masculine energy for me because they're just very strong colors and very bold and the vivid illustrations, gorgeous. Utterly stunning. So you develop your own relationship with the different decks and there's never a wrong choice if you feel compelled to pull out a deck for someone or for yourself or you feel compelled to buy a deck yourself. I know a lot of people say you need to be gifted a deck, but I don't prescribe to that. But it's a lovely tradition. Do it. There's a reason that deck is calling to you and there's something in there that's meant for you, for sure.

Kelly O'Hearn:
But yes, the illustrations can change the vibe of the reading. Definitely.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, for sure. I remember a specific reading where the reader pulled love cards and she was using. I want to say it was the Light Seers deck. I'll put a link to what that deck is in the show notes.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Yeah, that's a great one.

Jennifer Norman:
Some others and yeah, really gorgeous. A bit more contemporary, shall we say, and maybe a little bit more, I want to say, maybe modern in fashion and things like that, perhaps. And the interesting thing was when she pulled my love card, there was this gray haired man that was sitting on a mountain with a crow and a bat and there was a little firefly or like a. Just different kinds of feathered creatures around. And interestingly enough, I remember thinking to myself, oh, oh, well, that's an interesting card. I wonder who's gonna pop into my life. And then surely enough, I find who I think is, or I believe is my soulmate.

Jennifer Norman:
We go to Meditation Mount in Ojai. I turn and look at him. He's got gray hair. There's a mountain behind him. There's a pole with a crow sitting right on top of him.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Oh, my goodness.

Jennifer Norman:
I was like, of course, of course.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Oh, Jennifer, isn't that breathtaking?

Jennifer Norman:
Like, things like that just, just, just.

Kelly O'Hearn:
They just happen. They sure do.

Jennifer Norman:
They really, really do. And I'm telling you. And you know, I probably wouldn't have seen that in the Rider Waite deck, but the fact was that was a deck that was pulled specifically for me. I haven't had a love reading done since then. But I was like, yeah, yeah. You know, I can't say this doesn't work. It really.

Kelly O'Hearn:
That's amazing. I love that story so much and I love that reality. It's not just a story. It's real. It happened.

Jennifer Norman:
It was real. Yeah, yeah. I took a... I was like, don't move. I took a photo, I sent it to her and she was like, ah. You know, like we were both screaming because, you know.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Oh, wow. Wow, that's so cool. I love that it happens all the time.

Jennifer Norman:
I would love to hear any stories that you might have of things like that where all of a sudden it's like, oh my God. I'm sure you have many because it's always something that is. Yeah, you get blown away by what comes out. But were there any that's kind of stick in your memory?

Kelly O'Hearn:
Not really. I mean, to be perfectly honest, when I channel, I don't always remember. So. Yeah, you know, a client will say, well, last time we worked. And I have to say, listen, I don't remember and I don't keep files. I don't write things down. I don't make a transcript of my zoom recordings. Nothing like that.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah.

Kelly O'Hearn:
But for myself, a lot of things in my own journey, especially back in the day when I was learning, would very much come to fruition. As I said to you when we were chatting before we began, I don't really pull cards for myself anymore. But when I first started, I was my own guinea pig. Cause I was the only one who knew I was doing it. So it was very, very exciting when things like that would happen and you would pull something and you got an intuitive hit like, wow, this is what I have to do. I have to go for this. And then you do. And it works out so beautifully.

Kelly O'Hearn:
And you're so grateful for the. Just the guidance to, to just shore up your confidence, to move in a specific direction, for instance. But yeah, I don't, I don't have any specific memory that I can share in terms of like, what you had.

Jennifer Norman:
No worries at all. I'd love to also talk about past life regression, because you had some experiences about that and it was pretty much the inspiration for your new series of books that you've written, the Arcanum. And so tell us what happened. What was this premonition that I've been here before, I've seen this before, or something else happened. And how did you start developing this relationship with your former self?

Kelly O'Hearn:
So in 2017, I did a past life regression with this magical woman, Sonia Choquette. She's quite world renowned. Just an amazing, amazing leader in the energetic field, spiritual field. And in that reading she told me something that really stuck with me and it was that in many of my past lives and that I was in a karmic cycle of right now of always being a woman in the company of very powerful men, but never as the wife, always as the mistress, the muse or the mystic. And I was like, oh, I'm not sure how I feel about that, but, but I, I just went with it and I didn't really give it much thought because it wasn't really true to this life because I had just finished a 20 year marriage and I'd never been a person's muse, mystic, you know, any of that stuff. But now I'm, you know, I am a mystic, I guess, in a certain way, even to use that term loosely. So anyway, fast forward to the pandemic and we were all at home and this friend of mine was and I were zooming quite a bit and he told me, he's like, let's, let's just, he knew about my past life regression and we always had a chuckle that I wasn't wife worthy, that I was always, you know, the mistress and the muse. It's really kind of funny.

Kelly O'Hearn:
So he's like, let's channel. Use your cards to channel. What were these past lives? Who were these powerful men? How were you the muse? How were you the mystic? Why did you become a mistress? All the things. So I took out the 22 major arcana and all of this is recorded on Zoom. And I used it to ask my cards where my soul has been in these past lives. And what happened was maybe 70 hours of recorded video of me channeling these eight past lives that came through all throughout human history, from ancient Egypt to Renaissance France to medieval Scandinavia to the Ottoman Empire, like all throughout human history and all over the world. And it was just such a breathtaking experience. I mean, I would end up crying.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Like I relived it. I could feel the somatic truth of it in my body. And anyway, I knew I had something really special here. And my guides were very insistent that I share this story. And while I originally was trying to get it made into a TV series because it's just so rich with visual opportunity because of all the different civilizations and time periods as well as a modern day time period, everyone told me I had to write a book. Jennifer, I hate writing. I still don't resonate as a writer. I resonate as an author now because I've now Written three novels, but I was a math and science girl in school.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Like, even when a teacher would say, you have to do a book report, I mean, you would have thought I was being sent to the dungeons. I was like, but what? You know, and you know, we can do anything we set our minds to. So I took those channelings of my past lives and I focused them and I got outlines made from all of the recordings. And now I just published my third book, which is the past life in the Vatican in the late 1400s.

Jennifer Norman:
So are each of your novels based on one of the lives or a relationship with one of the past lives?

Kelly O'Hearn:
Yes. So what I did is throughout every... The core theme of the this of the saga is that sometimes happily ever after takes more than one lifetime. So it's a soulmate love story. And you will meet these two, the lovers, soulmates. The woman and the man is how I've written it, as well as three other soulmates. Because don't forget, soulmates are not just lovers. A villain can be a soulmate to you because a soulmate isn't just about romantic, intimate love.

Kelly O'Hearn:
A soulmate is really in our life to be our greatest lesson, to provide the greatest growth. And oftentimes people that challenge us and hurt us can ignite that for us in very powerful ways. But there is a common thread in every story of a continual unfolding of modern day life in New York City, which is where I'm from, and you see the soulmates there. But then in every book, you go back to just one past life. So the first book was ancient Egypt. So you're going back and forth between modern day New York City and ancient Egypt. But in every novel, the past life will be told from beginning to end. But the New York timeline will continue through all four books.

Kelly O'Hearn:
It's a four book series. And then at the end of book four, you'll find out, do the soulmates get it right in this current day lifetime of the 21st century?

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, fascinating. I love it. Wow. That process must have been like pulling teeth. Have you gotten used to writing now? Do you feel like it's a little better or. Okay.

Kelly O'Hearn:
And think about one thing. I could never have thought this. This into being. I could never have sat down and used my mind and my intelligence and my cleverness to think this into being. I channeled this so it lives inside of me. It. It is my truth in many ways, even though I. I don't know if in fact it is true.

Kelly O'Hearn:
But it doesn't matter to me because I. I felt It. I lived it when I was channeling it. So it's so easy for me to sit down and just have it pour forth. I think it's very similar not having ever been an artist or a sculptor or really ever done any kind of creative pursuits. But people say the time when they start, you know, get putting their hands in clay or. Or putting a paintbrush to a canvas, they lose time.

Jennifer Norman:
Yes.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Right. Because they're in that artistic zone which is channeling.

Jennifer Norman:
Yes. That is so true. And a lot of artists will say, this didn't come from me. This came from someplace else, the astral field. I channeled it. Whether it's music or the, you know, the art was there, the sculpture was there. I just needed to get rid of all the other excess marble that was in the way. It's so beautiful. It's powerful.

Jennifer Norman:
I know Elizabeth Gilbert talked about that feeling of, you know, when you see a flamenco dancer or somebody, you know, and all of a sudden they would just say, like, Allah, Allah. Which then became ole, ole. Because they felt they saw God. They felt that they saw God in the dance, in the way that somebody is moving. They just lose themselves. Like, they become more than human.

Jennifer Norman:
You can almost see them, the spirit coming out of people when they start talking about their work and their passion. It's so lovely. Sometimes I feel that way when I'm podcasting. I lose time and space because it's just so intriguing to get lost in the conversation and feel the energy of the other person. It's really beautiful.

Kelly O'Hearn:
I do recall, and it happens. It's really just the secret of being fully present. It's available to anybody. You don't have to be creating something. It's just when you're really just fully present in what you're doing and where you are. And in that moment. Yeah, that's when it happens.

Jennifer Norman:
Time and space completely dissolves away and you enter a different dimension. I recall that when, gosh, it might have been several years ago. I was gifted from a friend who is intuitive. A past life regression session. And both of the past lives that he was able to have come through ended in terrible demise. Yeah, he channeled one where I was some sort of royal. It seemed like it was Victorian age. I was on a ship, I had a forbidden love, and I was either being sent away or something of that nature.

Jennifer Norman:
And I cast myself off the boat and drowned myself off of this ship. The second one, I was a slave and I was imprisoned with shackles and all, and I tried to get free. And as I got free, he said, I was killed as I was trying to flee. And I thought to myself, I didn't really make too much sense of it after that, but I was like, I wonder what that all means. I wasn't quite sure. I didn't really feel an embodiment of it. I still don't.

Jennifer Norman:
And so I didn't really connect with it. And I wasn't really sure whether or not that was true or what it was trying to say to me in this lifetime. I guess that's more to be revealed, right?

Kelly O'Hearn:
Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, because all, you know, I... From what I believe, and I. No disrespect to those listeners of yours who don't believe in past lives, which is completely fine, you don't have to believe in past lives to enjoy my books or, you know, this conversation, but it lives. The truth of those lives, of those experiences do live in ourselves like we are a compilation. The fractal of our soul that comes into the physical vessel of the body in this condensed experience of third dimensional reality carries with it all of that, because it's the truth of the soul. It's not Kelly. It's not Kelly O'Hearn's truth.

Kelly O'Hearn:
It's the soul's truth that these. These lives represent. So it does live within me. And that's why, you know, if you have a theme in your life, perhaps of needing to break free of patterns or beliefs or generational systems and, you know, things that are passed down not intentionally. I'm not saying anybody's bad or evil. You know, everyone's doing the best they can almost. But, you know, that could very much be the symbolism of the life where you. You were a slave and you wanted to get out of captivity, you wanted freedom, you wanted to be free from being shackled.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Now, shackles, of course, are actually metal things that it can be that. But we're also shackled in so many different ways.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah.

Kelly O'Hearn:
And even. Even in a life where we live in a free country and we have freedom of movement and freedom of speech and, you know, a comfort lifestyle, we still are shackled.

Jennifer Norman:
Where you might have been married to somebody that you didn't want to and wanted to cast yourself off because you'd rather be free of that than. Yeah, yeah, no.

Kelly O'Hearn:
And in two of the channels I did together, past lives, I was killed, horribly killed. It was terrible. It happens.

Jennifer Norman:
Are we more civil now than we used to be?

Kelly O'Hearn:
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I know I am compared to some of the past lives I lived and what I channeled, I definitely have broken through a ceiling of understanding and compassion and really no judgment at all. And it's a really, really lovely way to live.

Jennifer Norman:
Yes, yes. I will contemplate at times where life has gone in humanity, and I am such a firm believer in the human spirit and in humanitarianism, of course, but the fact that I think, you know, we. We had to survive so much to get to where we are today. And so, yes, there was. There was a lot of fear, there was brutality, there was always power over. There's always the light and the dark, which has to exist and coexist in order for there to be life and to, for. For there to be evolution and, and growth and, and the expansion of the universe. And so I, I think in many ways things have, you know, gotten so, so interesting and intricate, but I...

Jennifer Norman:
And there's this interesting notion that, you know, the, the technology of the world now is almost starting to replicate or reflect human consciousness. I think, you know, we're, you know, getting to a place where there's AI and all of these interesting things where it's almost like the intelligence of the universe is starting to become so much more accessible to us. And so there is perhaps something moving us in the direction of, you know, the more spiritual, the more understanding of how we've collected all of this information about what's going on and then about ourselves. I think that it is an invitation for us to explore that a little bit more deeply.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Oh, 100%. There is a huge collective awakening going on in this world right now, and intentionally so. There's a reason you and I and all your listeners and everyone else else decided to incarnate at this point in human history. It's a very, very pivotal time and it's very exciting. Despite the chaos and the fear that's being propagated, there's also so much beauty and so much birth happening. And it's just a wonderful, wonderful time, in my opinion, to be alive.

Jennifer Norman:
I think so too. I think it's pretty exciting. I think that to those who want to cling to what has been, it is unnerving. It is. Is very, very scary, potentially always.

Kelly O'Hearn:
I mean, there's a reason a coin has two sides. If, If I allowed myself to sink into fear. There's so much evidence everywhere that would, that would support that, right?

Jennifer Norman:
You'll find. Whatever you focus on, you will find.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Exactly. So it's not that I bury my head in the sand, not Even a little bit. But I have no fear about it. I have complete faith and not faith like I was taught as a child in the Catholic Church. It's just. I just don't resonate with fear. No, I mean, of course I have anxious moments and I get situationally afraid for things. I mean, that's just life, right? But in terms of the big picture, the landscape of life and humanity, I'm not afraid.

Jennifer Norman:
I think that's really a beautiful way to be. I mean, there's healthy fear that keeps us alive and all of that. I mean, you know, we gotta not put our hand on the fire and those sorts of things. But I think fear of certain things that maybe from a societal perspective may have taught us or conditioned us in a certain way. You know, there are opportunities for us to get more curious about opening up doors that we might have not otherwise opened to speak to somebody who might not necessarily look or behave or be from the same background or, you know, who's just different from you. Because I think that that is the only way that our minds. Minds expand, our hearts expand. All of these beautiful things that we otherwise may have never experienced or learned.

Jennifer Norman:
Not, not just about somebody else, but about your own self and about the human. Of our own selves is just. It's so. It's such an incredibly beautiful experience.

Kelly O'Hearn:
It's incredible. And I'm here to tell you I have clients on every continent except Antarctica, and I'm working on that. I have to find. I have to find a scientist or someone.

Jennifer Norman:
But.

Kelly O'Hearn:
But so Asia, Europe, all the continents, all different countries, all different cultures, all different experiences. And I'm here to tell you, the human playbook really narrows down to seven to eight plays. We are all playing out the same seven or eight storylines within our own unique reality.

Kelly O'Hearn:
I'm not worthy. People never stay. I'm not safe. There's never enough. You know, there's. There are eight. I've determined eight of them with all the people that I've worked with.

Kelly O'Hearn:
So think about that. There's 8 billion people on the planet, and we're all operating from the same eight motivators. We're so much alike. Yeah, we are so much alike. We are driven by the same desires. And, you know, it's where someone's born, how they're born, the economic, you know, the economic status of where they're born, the. The challenges of.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Of cleanliness or hygiene of where they're born, whatever it is determines, you know, how that life will go. But they're going through the same thing I'm going through in their own unique storyline. And so I feel so bonded to them. Like, how can I not have just compassion and, like, rooting them on and wanting to connect with them and send them energetic strength and support and camaraderie. Like, you're not alone. We're in this together. It's really beautiful.

Jennifer Norman:
Wow. Yeah. I think that if we reflect on that, that there's so much more that does unite us and cause us to be so similar. We all feel similarly. We all want love. We all want to be accepted. We all want joy, compassion. And then the fear of not having enough, the fear of not living up to the fear of just, you know, whatever it might be.

Jennifer Norman:
Those constrictions, those energies keep us smaller. Yeah. Than what otherwise could be. You know, you spoke about soulmates, and I couldn't help but think about the folks that have come into my life for various reasons, and thinking about the seven or eight different storylines that we all have, we can think about the major players in our lives, whether it be parents or siblings or lovers or children. It's just so amazing that even those stories might play out similarly for me. I am 100,000% convinced that my son is my soulmate. I mean, I really believe that he was sent for a specific purpose, and it was to help me to ascend. He was one who was born like, what we would consider typical and normal, but after a period of time, he started to denigrate and he almost died several, several, several times.

Jennifer Norman:
And when he started to heal, he, unfortunately, we would suffer and lost his ability to speak, lost his ability to move, to eat, to care for himself. And so he, he lives on a ventilator. He unfortunately or fortunately does not speak and cannot move. But he has taught me so much about strength that I... Yeah, no, I mean, for, for somebody who would otherwise think about somebody's value or work or intelligent or whatever it might be, here is somebody who is, who was gifted to me to show me what real love and what strength and bravery and endurance and perseverance are about simply by being. Simply by being.

Kelly O'Hearn:
I mean, if that he's always in pure presence.

Jennifer Norman:
Yes. If that's not an angel or if that's not a spirit guide, I mean, I don't know what is. And so I feel so blessed every day that he, that I'm his Earth mama at this moment. And I can only imagine the kind of relationship we might have had and, you know, in past lives or a future life, you know, who knows? But, but in this moment, in this presence, I, I have just recognized that my life has completely changed. All of my priorities. Anything that I knew before it, it turned my eye to spirituality of like everything that I thought was important is not everything that I thought in terms of physical. It mirrors in the spiritual. Like there's so much more in, that is so valuable and precious of our experience then, and which is energetic, as you say, then, then can be seen or expressed in this physical form.

Jennifer Norman:
And so yeah, yeah, it, it really is beautiful in terms of just the lesson that it's taught me and my ability to share it in certain ways and you know, curiosity about what in your life might you not necessarily value today, but that might be more valuable than you ever thought. Like in another way, like if you were to turn that coin on the other side, is there something that you've just not realized was so special to you that could be in your life and in the cards? Who knows?

Kelly O'Hearn:
Myself. I spent my entire life looking outside of myself for validation, for confirmation, for acceptance, for love, for, you know, affirmation and compliments and approval. All those things. And this whole entire experience of finding the strength within me to do the hardest thing I've ever done, which was ending the family unit that I loved. I mean, I didn't want to be married to my husband, but I loved being a family family. I loved the four of us as a family. And we're still an amazing family. Like it's a joy to co parent.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Well, we now have adult children, so that the parenting part is over. But I still have so much care and appreciation for my ex husband, for the pure joy of our parenting journey together. But what I didn't see coming, Jennifer, was myself. And the absolute pleasure it is to accept myself and to respect myself and to show up for myself and to not to look to anything outside of myself for anything. You know, don't get me wrong, I love my relationships. I love my life. I have fought for it and I protect it and, and it's curated and it's fantastic. But I, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the most important relationship I have is the one with, with myself.

Kelly O'Hearn:
It's really the only one that's real. So all of the rest of it is a reflection of that newly born within the past, say, I don't know, 10, 11 years of this real, real journey back to center of me. I did not see that coming.

Jennifer Norman:
Wow. And that is the beautiful thing about the journey. It's never too late to figure that part out. No, it never is. And sometimes you've got to go through a lifetime or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 8 in order to get there, in order to say you are who you've been looking for. And that's the beauty of The Human Beauty Movement, is that recognizing.

Jennifer Norman:
And it's an ironic name because it's so much more than human. You know, it's really about... Yeah. Can we have that connection deep within that self love, that self discovery of the beauty that has always been there. It's always been there all along in our soul. And discovering it might be the hero's journey.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Yeah, indeed. It's exactly what it is. And. Or the Fool's Journey. If to use the tarot.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. Or the Fool's Journey.

Kelly O'Hearn:
I mean, and then you get the zero card of the Fool to the 21 card of the World is the hero's journey. It is the Fool's Journey. They're kind of, I mean, I believe Joseph Conrad kind of used the tarot as a framework as he composed this epic, epic tale teller that is used as a...

Kelly O'Hearn:
Even my Arcanum series is that Hero's Journey, Fool's Journey cycle. But 's really the whole point.

Kelly O'Hearn:
And do you mind if I tell you something about what I channeled when you were telling me about your son? And I thank you, by the way, for sharing that. I really love your connection to your son.

Jennifer Norman:
I would be honored.

Kelly O'Hearn:
You need to know he is a true soulmate, like one of the most powerful soulmates you will ever have in existence. Not just in this life as Jennifer in existence. And when you look at it from a soul perspective. Sorry, I've got waves of energy going through me. That soul of your son agreed with you to come into this life and have this experience and suffer and get sick and then live out life with great love in his life, but with restriction of his human vessel. He can't move, he can't speak. He's on a ventilator.

Kelly O'Hearn:
You need to know that that was a gift from his soul to you for your growth, for your spiritual journey, for your soul's ascension. And that, my darling, is an act of pure, unconditional love that only a soulmate could deliver. So you need never doubt. And I don't think you did have doubt. But he's telling me that it's like such an honor for him to do this for you to see you grow, to see it matter.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Sometimes we make contracts with other souls, and the soul doesn't... The person, the human doesn't choose to make the change, to learn the lesson, to move beyond, to take the leap. And that's okay. You get another try. But you did. And you're making it matter. And the joy he feels witnessing that is beautiful.

Jennifer Norman:
Thank you so much for confirming that. Of course, I knew it. And it's the reason why I'm here. Of course I know this all to be true. And it's so beautiful the way that life has unfolded in such an unexpected, uncharacteristic way. I think, like you before, I mean, you think of everything going according to plan and. And all of that, and then when you let go of the reins and you realize what's before you, and you just say, I'm gonna let the universe take over and. And realize what it has to say and to share and to do and to be and to all of that, and then ultimately it comes back to, we are all so, so freaking special.

Jennifer Norman:
It really is like. Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful to, you know, be in your light, to see your bearing of witness to all of the, you know, the beauty that you're creating and the lives that you're touching through your work and in the way that you've been able to accept this calling of yours as well. And knowing that, you know, again, it's never too late. The idea of aging is kind of a silly one.

Jennifer Norman:
It really is. When we think it is, how long the soul is in existence and. And what we place value on. And, yeah, the wisdom. It's funny because I often now I'm like, you know what? I really would love to be the Crone. I like the idea of being the sage, you know, the elder. The wise old elder.

Jennifer Norman:
I really like that. I embrace that. You know, I don't think of that as being a negative. I think that that's...

Kelly O'Hearn:
No, it's a great archetype. Yeah.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah.

Kelly O'Hearn:
It's a good one. I agree. I love it.

Jennifer Norman:
So maybe I. Maybe I grow into that. Who knows? But, Kelly, I. I have just enjoyed this conversation. I could talk to you forever, honestly, ever.

Kelly O'Hearn:
Oh, it's been a joy. It's so great.

Jennifer Norman:
I truly do enjoy this, and I. I always ask my guests three common questions at the end of each episode. And the first one is, what makes you beautiful?

Kelly O'Hearn:
The ability to really, really see someone and have them feel that from me.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah.

Kelly O'Hearn:
I love that quality about myself.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. That's so, so beautiful. Indeed. What do you think it means to be human?

Kelly O'Hearn:
I think what it means to be human is to embrace the exciting possibility of more for oneself. The human experience is really just such an incredible opportunity to use our mind, to use our senses, to use our emotions. All of those things don't exist. The mind does. But senses, emotions, that doesn't exist in energy, you know, in the energetic realms. The soul can't feel fear like pain or joy or rage or shame. And I'm not saying all those are fun experiences, but the experiential opportunity of humanity is what makes it matter. It's the messiness of it that is just so beautiful.

Kelly O'Hearn:
And I'm. And I've. I am not dismissing the pain. We go through many, many layers of trauma, but it's just such a privilege to be able to have a human life.

Jennifer Norman:
I completely agree with you. My final question. What is one truth that you live by? If you had to pick just one.

Kelly O'Hearn:
That I live by. Oh, my goodness. That's a tricky one. I've never really thought if I have like one truth. Well, I would have to say one truth I live by. It's kind of an oldie, but a goodie is like always try to do the right thing, you know, I. I really do always try my best to do the right thing to, you know, to love as best I can, to communicate as best I can, to not to do no harm.

Jennifer Norman:
And you embody that. Kelly, thank you so much. You, you're a delight to behold.

Kelly O'Hearn:
I really enjoy Jennifer. It was such a... I just loved this conversation.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, I really appreciate all your wisdom, your whole story, many stories, and the reminder that transformation is ongoing. It can happen in this life, at any stage of life. So, listeners, whereas if you connect with tarot as a spiritual tool, as a mirror for self reflection, simple, powerful storytelling device, it really doesn't matter. I think that the deeper message here is that we all have the ability to rewrite narratives that we've inherited and choose who we want to become next. Listeners, if you want to learn more about Kelly or explore the Arcanum series or connect with her work, then please do visit the series. You can also follow Kelly on Instagram TikTok and on substack @kellyohearnauthor and find Arcanum on Facebook. If this conversation inspired you, please share it with somebody who might need a reminder that it's never too late to begin again and there's so much to learn. About ourselves behind and beneath all of those layers.

Jennifer Norman:
Until next time, please keep choosing humanity. Please keep keep choosing curiosity, and keep choosing the kind of beauty that comes from living authentically. I'm Jennifer Norman and this is the Human Beauty Movement Podcast. I'll see you in the next episode.

Jennifer Norman:
Thank you for listening to The Human Beauty Movement Podcast. Be sure to follow, rate and review us wherever you stream podcasts. The Human Beauty Movement is a community based platform that cultivates the beauty of humankind. Check out our workshops, find us on social media, and share our inspiration with all the beautiful humans in your life. Learn more at thehumanbeautymovement.com. Thank you so much for being a beautiful human.

Jennifer Norman:
Learn more@thehumanbeautymovement.com thank you so much for being a beautiful human.