Episode 66: Trishna Daswaney, Founder of Kohl Kreatives - Making Makeup Mindfully Accessible

0:07 Hello beautiful humans. Welcome to the Human Beauty Movement Podcast. I'm your host, Jennifer Norman. Throughout my life I've been a lover and a seeker of all things beauty. But through my own personal journey, I've come to discover what I believe is the most beautiful thing in the universe, The beauty of the human Soul. On this podcast I. It down with beautiful humans from all corners of the globe and all walks of life to learn how they are living their own unique soul beauty out loud. This is the podcast where abundant energy flows and supreme wisdom is bestowed. Get ready to enjoy the inspiration. Hello beautiful humans.

0:50 I am so glad that you are here for today's show. My guest today and I share a common belief. We both believe that everyone deserves to feel beautiful, regardless of who you are or your abilities. Trishna Deswane is the founder and director of Coal Creatives, A cosmetics company that makes products designed for inclusivity. She's here to share her story. Welcome, Trish. Thank you so much for having me. I have. Have a girl crush on you because of your work. I have to just say that right now. So thank you so much for being here and for everything that you do to help with inclusivity in cosmetics. I would love for you to 1st tell everybody how you got your start in makeup.

1:34 That is a very interesting question. Thank you for that intro by the way. So cute. Well, I guess the first thing we have to start with is why did I even bother? You know what happened that made me so interested And. Excited about makeup and beauty in the 1st place and a lot of it had to do with the fact that I was being bullied at school and I really felt like the ugly duckling. I felt really not confident and I was losing that a little bit and I started to learn how to use makeup for my mom. We were playing with like eyeliner and then all of a sudden having this like blue eyeliner and green eyeliner that was very dynamic and very a 12 year old.

2:18 You know, I loved it and I felt this sense of empowerment. And as I went on, I really loved makeup because it was like my safety blanket. It was my armor. It was the thing that made me able to go out and face the day in the world. And so as I got older, I went off to do my degree in business. But at the same time, I was always thinking about this passion that I had for makeup and beauty and what it means to me, but what it would mean to other people. And actually, I wanted to get qualified because I wanted. To do the workshops. So off I went to train to be able to be safe in application and safe in applying cosmetics to people in a way that benefited their skin and didn't harm them.

3:00 Because I was intentionally working with people with chemo going through chemotherapy. Or I was working intentionally with people going through gender transition, which means they're going through HRT and understanding the implications on their skin and their sensitivities and being able to support them, not just cover it up. So I guess that's. Where the passion with makeup started, but there was also a sustainability piece there because the core to the bullying was the fact that kids don't like it when kids are different. And I was not able to go out to play because the air pollution index in Hong Kong, which is where I grew up, was dangerously high. It was such a common thing when I was growing up because of the close proximity to manufacturing facilities and factories, so being able to actually just integrate and amalgamate with the other. Kids with impossible for me because of the air pollution and my asthma.

3:53 And so that also led to me being different, weird, whatever you want to call it. So I feel like they're definitely have been those two big passions in my life. One trying to make beauty more functional for everyone and the other making sure that whatever I do has a sustainable, responsible mindset about it. Whether it's about the people that make the product, where products made what it's made out of and how it gets to you, I think. What was interesting about Hong Kong is that there was representation, but it was just different. I don't know how to describe it like there was so much diversity. In fact, actually it's probably one of the most diverse places to grow up. But I think, like, kids will just pick on anything.

4:35 Like all you have to do is have like a weird haircut and that's it. And I definitely had a weird haircut. But. It was. It's one of those things where, like it's interesting to see how things change and time evolves and you reflect on it. Makeup is quite amazing from that perspective. I know that a lot of people will wear it as a way to enhance a feeling of self worth or a feeling like with more confidence. Because it is almost like this two way street where it's like you know if it's not from within, if you don't automatically feel that empowerment from within being able to put it on. Just like a fabulous outfit or feeling like you can put on a different hairstyle or makeup really causes you to walk differently, to taste the world a little bit differently. And that strangely gets absorbed in you once you start seeing the reaction of other people coming back to. You 100%.

5:29 I think that really kind of hits the nail on the head. It is something that has such a transformative effect emotionally and physically, and it doesn't have to be so drastic like it could even. Be just like my skin looking more moisturized or Dewey. It could be having a little bit of concealer to cover up a spot that I'm really sensitive about right now. Or it could be a little bit of lip gloss or lip oil because it makes me look fresher. Like there are so many different ways and reasons we all use makeup and tools of beauty to enhance. What we have and what we want to communicate with, how we're feeling as well. You know what's so interesting is when I was younger, I was forbidden to wear makeup until I was 16 years old. And I say that because it was heartbreaking and heart wrenching because here I was, I had like, I did not perceive myself to be very attractive at all. And it was very normal in high School for Girls to wear like a face full of makeup.

6:28 And so of course I would sneak it. Of course I did. But it was one of those things where I felt so restricted and I think. That's one of the reasons why I probably went into the cosmetics industry when I was younger and was like you know what this is self-expression. I felt like a part of me was denied this ability to express myself artistically through makeup and through this idea of femininity, through the dawning of makeup in that ritual. So I find you fortunate for having a mom that would allow. You she really was so happy at like teaching me whatever I wanted to learn and like color matching and balance. But not in a restrictive way, just in like a explore and have fun and enjoy it and experiment.

7:11 And using it as a creative expression and art form was a really, really big thing. And I just feel like I gained so much from that. And I feel like being able to express ourselves for some communities is a privilege because like I said, we run workshops for people transitioning gender. And one of my favorite things about these workshops are. It's not limited, but they're limitless. So we've had people that we've gone on a real journey with over a period of a year. Very good Example was a trans woman called Kate, and Kate was basically really unhappy in their 40s. Like living in this man's body, to the point where Kate thought, OK, I'm done, I'm going to end my life.

7:58 Drank a lot of alcohol, ritualistically poured alcohol all over their garments, set the apartment. And on fire. And as a consequence, somebody didn't manage to make it out of the apartment building. They passed out. So we're talking third degree burns all over the body. Face had you name it. But a manslaughter charge now because someone has had the unfortunate experience of literally not being able to escape the building while it's on fire. Now Kate survived, and Kate ended up in a secure facility, and we ran workshops with Kate almost every other week for a year. Where we helped her look like herself, feel comfortable in her own skin, establish a routine, cover up those burns as best as she could, and came out to the rest of her ward as the person that she always wanted to be.

8:50 And those are kind of those empowerment pieces at the workshops and things that mean the most to me because she doesn't need us anymore. Because she now knows how to look and feel like the woman she's always wanted to be and. Is brilliant. Like to be a part of someone's journey like that is great. On the flip side, you've got a lot of teenagers that are in care homes because they come out to their parents and the parents are not on board with them transitioning gender or any of it. And so we kind of take the role of how someone that's older in your life would teach you how to use products and to look your best and to feel your best and even answer like little skin care questions like someone somewhere, once.

9:34 Told us, don't squeeze your spots or try this, try that. And so to be that person for them, giving them, you know, little packets, so skin care support and makeup support and teaching them not only how to maintain their skin, but also their entire routine and just teaching them how to be like themselves and feel like themselves outside as they do inside. It's basically what the workshops are about. So it's been amazing to be on that journey and to see a variety of different people. People going through a lot of different circumstances using beauty as a tool of making them look and feel more like they want to. Yeah. So for those of you listening, Cole Creatives, which is Trish's company, is a nonprofit. She launched a series of brushes that are adaptive. And so they are really uniquely made for people who find it hard to hold makeup brushes.

10:29 And I'll let Trish talk a little bit more about that. But what happens is from the proceeds that. She makes from selling her brushes. She's able to offer these free makeup workshops and they're specific to consumers around the world. It's not just in London where she is right now, but all over the world. And anybody who is transgender, who may be suffering from cancer, hair loss, somebody who has motor disabilities, people who have visual impairments, these are the types of communities that coal cares serves. And so that's why I think Trish just is doing God's work here on earth by, you know. Helping these people feel more whole and more themselves again. And the relationship that we have with makeup, with anything that we do, is so individual. And it's a lot easier for people on the outside to criticize people.

11:18 Oh, that person's wearing too much makeup. Oh, that person doesn't need all that makeup. Oh, that person. You know, why in the world would they want to be a man when they're a woman? It's really not up to anybody else to judge what's going on inside somebody. And so knowing that, if. You feel that when you're putting on your makeup, you are more yourself. You're expressing more of who you truly are and how you're feeling in that moment. That's all that matters. That is beautiful. If you're using makeup. To try to cover something up or to try to be like somebody else because you're afraid of what people might think of you otherwise. Then that is where some of that personal development can come in to say, OK, do we know who we are inside?

12:02 Do we have a comfort with ourselves? Are we feeling? Lack of confidence because we're just afraid to be ourselves. That is the difference. And that is the magic of what a relationship with anything that we do to manifest our true selves is really all about. And so I do want to just commence Trish for recognizing that and for looking to those having such compassion and empathy for those who really haven't been served in the past and haven't been seen, haven't been heard, to really give them a place to shine. I think. We're so right I think what it make up beauty whatever it is to us as individual for me it means something else to what am I mean to somebody else. And I feel like when we think about the different ways in which the industry kind of gets left behind. Of course creating products for different disabilities is something that we we incorporated pretty much from the get go because organically from the workshops that I was working on I started to notice people that went through different types of cancer.

13:05 Had different limb differences or different abilities in terms of grip or dexterity or tremors. And it was like a little bit of a vicious cycle because a lot of people that I knew were on HRT ended up with breast cancer because the male to female transition involves high volumes of estrogen, and estrogen actually feeds and fuels breast cancer. Not all of them, but definitely some of them. And so it was kind of heartbreaking to see a chicken and egg situation, but also gave me a lot of awareness. This when it came to our community. And then I of course realized that like disability is not one's eyes fits all. There's so many different types of different disabilities even when it comes to grips like an arthritis grip is different to an Ms. grip.

13:48 But an Ms. grip is different to a Parkinson's group than a Parkinson's tremor is different to one with an ALS tremors or cerebral palsy for that matter as well. So we've got all of this awareness and all of these different things and I think as we kind of travel along our product journey we try to. Incorporate and many different types of disabilities can and it's a consistent work in progress. It's always changing, it's always evolving and the research is paramount element there. Yeah, now you started Coal Cares. It was it 2017, 2018. We started Coal Cares in 2015 and then we launched our first tools in 2017.

14:29 So the workshops were kind of feeding themselves while we were figuring out how to make. More practical from a business perspective, because then it wasn't really a business, it was just a charity. And it was becoming unsustainable for me to work another job and, you know, fundraise to be able to run workshops. So this way it's a lot smoother and it's kind of nice because it's circular. So people that purchase the product are effectively also supporting and funding the workshops, which is such a wonderful thing. Each person that purchases something is able to provide. That same product plus service to another individual and it's really nice to kind of recognize.

15:11 That I love that your workshops have almost been like a focus group of research. For you to be able to have informed decisions on how you wanted to design your first products, your makeup brushes based upon grip and hold, and the type of look that somebody is hoping to achieve, that's really fantastic. Thank you SO. Much, yeah. Can you tell us about? Your workshops now, since you started, can you approximate how many that you've held? So right now, workshops are at about 45 workshops a week. They run in different countries, and we have a variety of different people running them in different regions. I still do one myself every week, whether that's a Group One or an individual one.

15:55 And what's really nice about the workshops is they're either individual or they are group sessions, but they always start off with understanding those. Difficult skin myths and giving people some advice on how to better look after their skin. I think we often forget it is the largest organ in our body and it is so important to make sure that, you know, we do look after our skin and make sure that it is actually really something that is prioritized. And then of course, without that foundation, you don't look after your skin as a foundation as the basis. It's difficult to build makeup beautifully on that too. So we balance the workshops. With some skin advice and then also make up looks based on what people want to create. So sometimes it's as simple as I've got a tremor. I really find it very difficult to do eyeliner. I would love to learn how to do smoky eye. Sure we'll help you with that.

16:48 Other times I am going through male to female gender transition. I would like to look more feminine. Please help me achieve that through my features and we're like sure great we'll go through that and you'll be able to do it. That the whole purpose of the workshops are while they are available to everyone and. They are available for free and they are available online or in person. We are really trying to teach you tools and techniques for you to be able to do this again and again. So it's not a makeover, it's a session where you're actually able to learn and hopefully create this environment for yourself moving forward. That's incredible. Now, how do people typically find out about cold cares? If you're a consumer and you're like, this sounds really nice, I'm going through something right now and I really want to learn better skills on how to. To enhance my own natural beauty. Well, it's on the back of every packaging. So if you do purchase the product, it's automatically there and the information is there for you. The easiest way to get in touch is on our website. We have a little drop down messenger box that you can message and in addition to that, the other really easy way of communicating that is just by dropping us a DM on Instagram as well.

18:00 We're open to organizing in different channels and if there's a workshop that. Already exists in your city or in your time zone. We always just introduce you to who's running that. Amazing. And so if somebody is a cosmetologist or an aesthetician who might be interested in partaking and being able to be of service to run workshops, how does that usually happen? So often we do have people that are interested in supporting the workshops. We run training for the workshops twice a year because we're dealing with a lot of sensitive skin sensitive individuals, a lot of different. Diseases as well. It's super important that people are trained even just kind of like signature things that we would do when recommendations and kind of also where to draw the line because we're not doctors.

18:47 So it's just about being able to balance that and being able to make it really educational, but also fun and lighthearted at the same time. So we do these twice a year trainings and we're so happy to have as many people on board. We just want to make sure that you represent. What we do and best way possible as well? Sure. And you have to be certified or licensed as a cosmetologist or aesthetician in order to be qualified in order to go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we have a lot of hobby makeup artists, but then we would just designate different kinds of workshops. So, you know, we have to really take on board, even though it's a free service, the health and safety of everyone involved.

19:29 So even if you're a hobby makeup artist and you'd love to do like a makeup tutorial workshop or. So open to those, it just would mean that you would fall under a different kind of workshop. Got it. I noticed recently you launched some stickers and stencils. Can you tell us about that? You're so fun, aren't they? They're. So cute. I was watching Tik toks on them and I was mesmerized. I love them. I actually love them so much. The Quickie Stickies was an idea, Open Vaccine and I couldn't go out for New Year's Eve. And I just thought, like, how great would it be? Eyeliner is so challenging, like on yourself, on other people, like it can be a total nightmare. And we've all been there with the back and forth of one side is thicker than the other, so we're eating out. Next thing you know, your eyeliner is the whole size of your face.

20:19 So I thought it would be really cute to do that. And also it's like the one thing that if I was doing a workshop and we were looking at things that people statistically are not comfortable or confident attempting, it's eyeliner. And so we started off with the eyeliner. Stencils. And then we thought, there is a whole universe here. Like, I'm not amazing at graphic eyeliner, I'm not great at like the RT eyeliner, but I would love to be able to do it. And so I thought, why not actually develop this. So we started off with what was just the original, which was like a little bit of a mix of some fun cute ones and some really basic ones, and that evolved into the basic and the extra fun, which was like really like festivally really arty really fun.

21:04 And then as time went on we thought of sunless stickies which are like tattoo stencil stickies in like our favorite like 90s gecko and starfish and you know all those fun shapes. And in a year we ended up with 9 different kinds and there is definitely like one for everyone. Our most recent launch called the Abstract Stickies was a little bit more of a grown up evolution of the graphic liner, something that really is trending but really requires. There's a lot of skill, but we made the paper on those gradient as well. So you can wear them and they're keep to wear, but they're also really fun to play with. Gosh, I have so much fun creating stickies.

21:45 It's actually the best. It's amazing the creativity that can come out of just like putting something out there like that and almost like throwing out the challenge, like, how would you do it and then seeing what comes back. It's just truly extraordinary to see what people do in terms of, like, eyes and whatnot. And by the way, thank you for acknowledging the fact that eyeliner is so. Difficult because here I am, you know, a grown ass, very old woman, and I've been doing eyeliner all my life and I still can't figure it out. It is so hard. And seeing people actually using both left and right hands with, you know, the same eyeliner and doing this perfect graphic eyeliner on themselves with a flick of the wrist, I'm like, you have more talent than God, I don't know how.

22:29 So true. It's so true. It is so difficult and so yeah, we just wanted to make it a bit easier for everybody to do. And I have to say like arty style ones, the extra fun, the Mystic. I mean I do love them all, but even the abstract stickies like they just offer something that I kind of jealous of. The speed, the skill, the technique. And I have to say like my favorite has been, I mean today, uh, Fairy free Korea. Influencer that actually supported us initially. She just bought a packet and there are actually so many of them that just are like, I love the product and I'm going to buy a packet and it's so nice to see that support. And she just created the coolest video and put together like a mixture of the stickies in a way that I would have never thought of doing.

23:17 So it's really cool. So fun. That's so fun. I want to take a moment too, to talk about your sustainability practices, of your brushes and upcycling. You had mentioned early on about Eric. Quality and things about the environment that are really near and dear to your heart. Honestly, when it comes to sustainability, there are so many different things that we look into. Upcycling is one of them, innovation on material is another and just down to kind of every element of the product. So we're talking about like the formulation in the glue and the stickies being not only safe for everybody and being latex free, but also being able to be as plastic free, which is actually typically. Quite challenging because most glues are acrylic. We are also really really passionate about inventing new materials and something that we created was like a bio plastic made out of rice a few a few years ago. Now using husk and using the waste to then extract the fiber and to create it to be solid just like plastic was really fun.

24:22 So I think there are so many different ways of actually adjusting and you know working with the environment. But I have to say like those are probably my favorite two things like making sure that we get to innovate materials but also making sure that we're trying to be as plastic free and as mindful of the environment as we possibly can. But there is also actually one more thing that's kind of worth mentioning and that is that you know, sustainability is important but greenwash. Is a really big problem. And I feel like we're still in a stage where there is like some regulations, rules and laws, but there's not a lot of rules and laws about sustainability. And so I feel like a lot of people get away with saying things but practicing something else. And it's a challenge because there's a lot of certification and a lot of stuff that you can do and you can just pay for it and no one's checking whether you're actually doing it. And that's worrying as well.

25:21 And it's also like under. Understanding that the definition of sustainability has to also go about the way that you produce things, who makes it all that stuff? So I think there's a big part of it that needs to just be kind of considered who we worked. For sure. Yeah, I know that's the beauty industry in general are perhaps some of the worst offenders when it comes to environmental non sustainability and waste and I on my business and through some of the coalition's that I'm part of are really trying to create more standards and more open. Forced opportunities to have better sourcing, better education and better resources for beauty companies to just raise the bar when it comes.

26:02 To their. Practices and sustainability, it's definitely something that I recognize. Thank you for being very mindful of those things because not every company as you were saying. And then it's, you know, we definitely all have a way to go, especially when it comes to packaging. Boy, there's lots and lots of things that we can do to continue innovating in that space to ensure. That we are being mindful of how we're manufacturing and then how we are disposing at the end of life the the packages that we're using. I think it's really interesting because of course like packaging is such an investment and we spend so much time on formulations and making sure that whatever we're formulating is like perfect, but then packaging is kind of the the last piece.

26:44 But people don't realize like I just wish there was someone, you know, someone that was like I'm going to get a whole load of this material and I'm going to produce it and I'm willing. To share it with other small businesses that are trying to like do the same, because I think that could be really cool, like that could be really nice, it could be really amazing. And then you know we smaller business maybe doesn't have to deal with the tooling cost or the spoke element of it, but they are still producing and packaging in a way that's like a little bit more mindful. So I think that's a real factor. I mean glass is amazing. We all know glass is amazing, but it's also really heavy. It breaks, you've got all these other things to think. My plastic came about in the first place. Yeah, exactly.

27:28 So it's just a lot to think of, I think, and a lot of things to actually realize. I mean, I saw this. I mean, it's fashion industry to be honest. It's a little bit different. But I saw somebody creating a denim, but it was distressed denim and they kept saying that it was sustainable. But I think people kind of get carried away with it a little bit and they stop thinking like they get tunnel vision about sustainability, but sustainability. Also means that it's actually going to last. It has to sustain, and so of course by distressing denim you're reducing the life of which someone can wear it already automatically from the get go. So it's just interesting things like that, principles like that. I feel like people feel like when they're creating something sustainable, they forget about the durability of it as well. And it's only as important, honestly, because all the paper bags in the world.

28:18 But if your paper bag is breaking every day because it's getting wet, you are having to buy a new paper bag every day. So just those little things, they're also equally not great. Yeah, and I remember seeing a statistic on how many gallons of water it actually took to manufacture 1. Pair of denim jeans. And I was like, I'm never buying a pair of denim jeans again. Like just you've had a boycott on fast fashion after I had learned all of the terrible things that are going on in the fashion industry. So yeah, it's absolutely true. You know, it's just like being a little bit more of a conscious consumer as well as us on the other side and manufacturing and then helping to educate those influencers to make sure that they're saying the right things and not contributing to the green washing.

29:01 Yeah. Yeah. So with that, Trish, I want to thank you for. Coming on, I want to encourage everybody who's listening to really take a look at call creatives. Buy a brush, buy some fun stencils, tell us and show us what you can do with them. And spread word about call creatives because it's really important for those that could really benefit and be excited about being able to do makeup again. If they have been disheartened by the fact that they couldn't hold a makeup brush or if they are somebody who is going through a transition and is really encouraged to learn about how to do makeup in a different way, it's so great that. Trish has been able to create something like this. And so I encourage everybody to just take a look and really do your part by spreading love, spreading word about what her mission is and what's going on over there. So Trish, thank you so much for your work. Thank you so much for having me on. It was great.

29:50 Great to see you. Today and keep doing the great work. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Human Beauty Movement Podcast. Be sure to. Follow, rate and review us wherever you stream podcasts. The Human Beauty Movement is a community based platform that cultivates the beauty of humankind. Check out our workshops. Find us on social media and share our inspiration with all the beautiful humans in your life. Learn more at the Human beautymovement.com. Thank you so much. For being a beautiful human.