Episode 61: Johanna Louie - Let's Talk Openly About Suicide Prevention

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Hello, beautiful humans.
Welcome to the human Beauty

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movement podcast.
I'm your host Jennifer Norman.

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Throughout my life, I've been a
lover and a seeker of all things

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and nature.
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Journey.
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believe is the most beautiful
thing.

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In the universe, the beauty of
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Of the globe and all walks of
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living their own unique.
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Get ready to enjoy the
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Hello, beautiful humans.
I'm Jennifer Norman founder of

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the human.
Move in and your host.

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Now, let's face it.
Some subjects are just harder to

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talk about than others, but we
must talk about them.

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Because, raising awareness, and
spreading understanding can

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actually help save lives.
So this episode comes with a

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trigger warning because we're
going to talk about how to

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prevent suicide.
We all get shaken.

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When we hear the news that
someone took his or her own life

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that's of seemingly happy or
successful people like Robin

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Williams, Anthony Bourdain.
McQueen and Stephen twitch boss.

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A reminders that people may be
hurting more severely than they.

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Let on my special guest today is
Johanna.

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Louis a licensed social worker,
and co-founder of suicide is

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different, which aims to address
gaps in resources for caregivers

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supporting people experiencing
Suicidal Thoughts.

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A warm.
Welcome to you Johanna.

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Thanks so much sharing, first,
great to be here.

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I'm so delighted to have you.
And yes, this is such an

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important topic and I first off
want to say, Thank you for the

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work that you do.
I would love for you to share

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with everybody.
Your background.

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Tell us about how you got into
this.

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No, I appreciate the invite and
being able to share a little bit

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about my story and also some
ways that we can all work

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together towards preventing
suicide and making it something

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that is easier to talk about.
I think so, my first interaction

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with suicide happens in college
really.

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And it was the first time that I
think for a lot of people write,

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first time you are Away from
home.

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First time, you are kind of more
on your own and experiencing

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caring for someone who is
thinking about suicide was just

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something that no one told me
that I might encounter in

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college, right.
People told me like, you're

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gonna have to choose your major
look for internships and all of

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those things, but no one really
prepares you for that.

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And I think the challenging
thing is like, you're barely

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learning to take care of
yourself.

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Let alone be put into a position
to kind of care for others.

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I felt like a lot of people
would like assumed that like,

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okay, she should What to do it.
I was a social ecology major.

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That took a lot of psychology
classes.

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I was a peer educator at the
counseling center and I never

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learned anything about suicide.
I never learned how to talk

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about it and that really was my
first kind of window into like

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wow there's not a lot of support
out there and it did plant a

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seed of something that I was
interested in, right?

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Like, I was able to get the
people that needed help, connect

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it to the counseling center
where I was part of, but I still

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didn't really know what to do.
And because of that interest a

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couple of years later, I
actually ended up starting as a

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volunteer on a crisis line
locally and that was really the

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start of my professional journey
and since then I've been

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involved with in the suicide
prevention space ranging from

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like a more volunteer
perspective and managing

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programs consultant basis and
also like doing more clinical

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work more recently as I kind of
like learning different facets

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of the field and hopefully now
like really focusing on

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supporting caregivers.
That's And how amazing that you

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really do Vin after college and
said, this is something that I

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really think is important, and
that I want to dedicate my time

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to.
So thank you for volunteering

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and for continuing this as your
profession.

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So, I think that a lot of
people, you know, they hear

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about suicide and it's like one
of those topics that is to so

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uncomfortable because no one
knows what to say, nobody knows

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really what to do.
We know that there are tools out

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there but it seems like
individual situations are varied

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and different.
You tell us what are some of The

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things that maybe to start off
with might be some signs that.

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Hey, there's something going on
that.

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Maybe I should lean in a little
bit more and pay attention to as

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a friend, as a family member.
What would you say?

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Yeah, I think that I always tell
folks trust your gut.

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I think that if you are noticing
something as different that

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typically is something to follow
up on.

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So I think that, if you finding
yourself concerned, there's

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probably a reason and really
kind of following that in terms

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of specific, you know, Warren
Signs and risk factors.

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I think that there are a lot of
different things, right?

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Like hearing someone's talking
about this, right?

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If someone is giving away their
belongings, they might be

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engaging in more risky,
behaviors, I think that warning

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signs and risk factors are
pretty well-documented.

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When we see these signs are when
we see that someone's feeling

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down when we're seeing that
someone is perhaps like

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increasing their alcohol and
drug use, right?

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They're withdrawing from
activities, isolating

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themselves.
What's really?

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Important is also noticing like
a change in their Baseline.

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So I always use the example when
I'm doing trainings and whatnot.

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That, like, if someone never
leaves the house, without

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putting their makeup on and
dressing really nicely, and then

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suddenly like, you have to drag
them out of the house and they

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want to go outside and pajamas,
right?

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That's a very notable
difference.

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Whereas, like, when I was in
college, if you saw me wearing

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sweatpants during finals week
outside, that probably doesn't

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mean too much.
So I think that kind of being

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able to notice the differences.
And behavior.

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I think is a really big one and
really great to kind of see

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warning signs and risk factors.
I think to your point earlier,

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it just differs for different
people that being able to kind

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of notice like changes I think.
And then following your gut I

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would say that those are my top
two kind of advice for folks

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when they ask me what to look
out for fascinating and I was

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looking at some statistics from
the CDC.

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I think that the latest data
that I could find was from my

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2020 as a wrap-up and it was
saying that like there's a

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suicide every even minutes or in
the United States or about 130

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per day.
So I mean it's quite pervasive

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and I think there are some
specific groups that have a

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higher propensity for suicide
than others.

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I think that, you know, folks
that are in the lesbian gay or

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bisexual communities have a
higher rate of suicidal thoughts

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or behaviors compared to peers,
who identify as heterosexual

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white males.
Also tend to have a higher

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propensity to actually execute
upon a suicide but even Females.

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I think that females have like a
1.5 higher chance of actually

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trying to or having thoughts of
suicide versus other groups,

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which is quite alarming.
Yeah, I think some other

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statistics, that really kind of
guide.

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Some newer programming is just
around Youth and suicide amongst

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youth.
Like, it being very commonly,

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top three causes of death for
folks younger than 24.

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Right?
I think just behind kind of

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accidental death.
So I think that's another area

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that That we think about a lot
when we kind of do this work and

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think about like what
populations we want to really

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focus on.
I think one of the things that

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also, I like to remind folks is
that like suicide doesn't

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discriminate even while like I
think statistics are so helpful

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in terms of making sure that you
know, like the right resources

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are customized for certain
populations kind of recognizing

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that no one's necessarily in the
clear.

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So to speak the idea that like,
you know, things can build up

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for Books and even if like a lot
of times, we're only seeing a

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snippet of someone's life and it
might not look that bad from our

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point of view.
But recognizing that as things

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build up, it's going to be
harder and harder for them to

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Envision a future.
And that can really lead to

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decrease hope and we to thoughts
of suicide as well.

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You're exactly right.
I often wonder because there is

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probably a correlation between
depression or certain mental,

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health, conditions, and suicide.
And while there seems to be Like

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a movement towards people saying
oh, if somebody is negative or

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if they seem like they're at
like an energy vampire, then you

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don't need to spend too much
time with them like, you know,

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cards yourself and so it tends
to isolate people that might be

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having an issue we're having
problems.

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It's not as compassionate as
saying, hey, you know, I'm going

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to be there for you.
No matter what think that

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there's something going on here.
And so, there is seemingly fine

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balance between making sure that
you're preserving your own

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emotional and mental wellness,
and also having enough love

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Yourself and enough strength to
be able to consider and care for

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those that are around you too.
Yeah definitely.

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And that's actually like one of
the basis of why suicide is

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different was founded.
We really recognize that the

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caregiver needs support to when
you look at like folks who know

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someone who's thinking about
suicide the Harris poll did a

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study a couple of years back and
they talked about how 50% of

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adults actually said that they
knew someone who was thinking

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about suicide.
I mentioned suicide in some way

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and generally people want to
help, like, I think the numbers

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were either 90-95 percent of
people reported, hey, like, I

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would want to do something, but
the biggest barrier being, I

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don't know what to do and that
causes fear.

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And I think that when we think
about that, that's why we felt

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like having a service
specifically for caregivers

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allowing them to really think
through how am I going to

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approach this, who else is part
of the Care team?

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It's not all on me.
I don't have to be everything

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for this person and then being
able to think about What does

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taking care of myself?
Look like, how do I sustain

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being a support for others?
Making sure that it doesn't

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drain me, right?
Because we all have limits as

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much as we like, to think
sometimes.

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Oh, we can do anything.
And I think that's a great

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mindset, but we all ultimately
do have some limitations and

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being able to recognize what
those are and ensure that like,

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hey, when we take care of
ourselves, that's the best way

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for us to take care of others.
But also, I can transfer care.

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And if I'm not in the place, I'm
going to connect this person

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with Other support, I think is a
really big key there, too.

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So I definitely agree that like,
being able to be even in the

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space to be able to provide
support is not something that's

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easy to do.
Hmm.

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I think, you know, stepping back
to some of your earlier work

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when you were, you know, working
hotlines and like that.

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I think about the folks that
call in and they're like, I need

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help.
Thank goodness.

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There's resources like that,
where people like, they don't

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know where to turn, but they
know that they need help.

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And there's somebody on the
other end of the line that cares

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and knows I had heard.
This amazing story about

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somebody who got a phone call.
I think it was a person who

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worked in a bookstore, got a
phone call from a friend.

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And the friend was like, I'm
saying, goodbye, this is the end

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and the person was on the phone.
I think that it was a gay

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bookstore and was like, trying
to talk this person off of the

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ledge, but was at work and
wanted to try to be as quiet as

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possible, because they were
people in the bookstore.

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But then suddenly people started
noticing the kind of phone call

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that was happening.
And so they started to tap the

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person on the shoulder that they
were like, my turn.

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I got this and One by one.
They all started to line up and

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took turns talking
compassionately and lovingly to

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this person on the phone.
Cuz they're like, we've all been

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there.
We've all felt this way, we know

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it.
It's like and it just caused me

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to like, well, up with tears.
Thank goodness.

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There are people that care and
probably saved that person's

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life and that moment because
it's just a few do something

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impulsive.
You know, it's like at least you

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have somebody to turn to even if
it's strangers, they will come

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to your Aid.
And so I'm just curious like

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what those conversations must
have.

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Like when you were on that other
end of the phone and you've got

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somebody that's in an emergency
situation, like how you diffuse

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and get them to a place where
they feel better.

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That's me is like magic.
And if anybody has like a nugget

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that they can take away from
that, I think would be just so,

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so important error.
I think that the story that you

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mentioned, I actually think
highlights look.

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The magic is and that's
compassion, right?

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Compassion?
Being willing to listen kindness

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and taking the time, right?
And I actually would love to

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highlight Light like a new
number that's been out since the

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middle of last year. 988 I think
that's a really good resource.

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We have charged 24/7.
There's obviously other crisis

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lines out there with the Trevor
Project and other kind of

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resources that are available as
a lot of people don't realize

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that a lot of these crisis lines
are volunteer and obviously the

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volunteers are going through.
Very intensive training, they

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are being supervised.
However, they're not necessarily

253
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taught while these clinical
skills, right?

254
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And I think that what it is is
the compassion is taking the

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time.
And I think that we live in an

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age where we're pretty hung up
on like I want to say the right

257
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thing, I want to make sure that
everything is perfect.

258
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I don't want to say anything
offensive and rub them the wrong

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way.
I think that a lot of people,

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what they don't realize is that
often times, even if you say the

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wrong thing, so to speak, people
are very perceptive and can tell

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that like, you did it mean about
right?

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00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,900
Like, even when people are in
crisis, most of the time, they

264
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might tell you like, hey, I
didn't really feel that way or I

265
00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,000
don't like that.
You just said that or maybe they

266
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might take a step back and you
can kind of be like Okay, to

267
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maybe something came out wrong
and I can address it.

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I think that a lot of times it's
not about saying the right

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words, because there are
probably no right words to be

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honest, and it's about the
feeling that you can allow them

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to feel like, hey, you're not
alone in this moment.

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I got you right, like, I'm here
with you, I'm going to sit here

273
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with you and here to listen,
think that human connection, I

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think is so important.
And I would honestly say that

275
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that's the magic sauce because,
of course, talk a little bit

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more about the technical things
to ask just to make sure that

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the Personal safe.
We can talk about that a little

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bit more, but I would say that,
like, just kind of being there

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for someone sitting and that
dark place with them.

280
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Hmm.
And not jumping to, it's going

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to be okay, don't worry about
it.

282
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But being like that sucks, homie
more.

283
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That is really where the magic
is.

284
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Yeah, being present and
listening.

285
00:14:26,500 --> 00:14:29,700
It sounds like, even if you
don't say anything, I'm here,

286
00:14:29,700 --> 00:14:31,000
I've got you.
I'm here.

287
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,900
I'm here to listen.
You're not alone in this and

288
00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:36,000
just talk.
Let me hear what's going on.

289
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,000
Even if it's just that, At it.
Sounds like that.

290
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,400
Is helpful, right?
100%.

291
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,800
And I think that's what a lot of
people looking for, right,

292
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,100
Making Connections being able to
feel like, there's hope, right?

293
00:14:46,100 --> 00:14:48,300
Because I think earlier talked
about how a lot of times, it's a

294
00:14:48,300 --> 00:14:51,100
buildup of things, right?
And it's hard for them to see

295
00:14:51,100 --> 00:14:55,200
the future, see that there can
be Morrow, and I think that when

296
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,000
we're helping them make
connections to life were

297
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,400
building a connection with them.
That's really what's so powerful

298
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,800
about conversations, okay?
And then if it is a phone call

299
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,900
that you're on, or if it's a
text then what my Some of those

300
00:15:07,900 --> 00:15:11,500
safety questions that would be
helpful just to make sure that

301
00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:13,400
they're not in any imminent
danger.

302
00:15:13,500 --> 00:15:16,400
You know, I think a lot of
people when they hear about the

303
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,300
aside, when they think about
like what might the response be

304
00:15:19,300 --> 00:15:22,200
a lot of times, I okay, so yes
or no question and when you ask

305
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:23,300
someone are you thinking about
suicide?

306
00:15:23,300 --> 00:15:25,000
Sure.
That technically is a yes or no

307
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,500
question, but when you want to
understand suicidality, it's a

308
00:15:28,508 --> 00:15:33,100
little bit beyond that, right?
We are trying to understand the

309
00:15:33,100 --> 00:15:36,900
intricacies of it, the Nuance of
it, because if someone says yes,

310
00:15:36,900 --> 00:15:38,600
there, Are thinking about
suicide.

311
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,200
I just don't want to be here
anymore.

312
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,300
That's very different than
someone telling me.

313
00:15:42,300 --> 00:15:46,300
Yes, I'm thinking about suicide.
I check the medicine cabinet,

314
00:15:46,300 --> 00:15:49,400
and I know that I have these
painkillers left over from my

315
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:53,300
previous surgery.
I have enough to have a dose.

316
00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:55,100
That would be lethal.
I googled this.

317
00:15:55,100 --> 00:15:57,900
And I'm going to take steps to
do that today, right?

318
00:15:57,900 --> 00:16:01,200
That's a very different story.
So being able to get a better

319
00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,200
sense of like, okay, yes or no,
if it's no, then like you kind

320
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,800
of move forward with, you know,
the conversation talking about

321
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,300
what's going Like what is the
answer is?

322
00:16:08,300 --> 00:16:10,400
Yes, like okay tell me a little
bit more about that.

323
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:11,800
Right.
Have you done anything already

324
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,600
today to act on these thoughts?
Are you safe right now?

325
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,400
I just want to know that to make
sure that we can have a

326
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,400
conversation.
Of course, if you're in person

327
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,700
with this person, that might not
be a question that you need to

328
00:16:20,700 --> 00:16:23,400
ask, but maybe right, if you're
kind of noticing that there's

329
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:25,900
some physical fine, but they
might not be doing too well.

330
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,500
Inquiring a little bit about
like, hey, how much have you

331
00:16:28,508 --> 00:16:30,700
thought about this?
Like, do you have a plan for

332
00:16:30,700 --> 00:16:32,600
what you might do?
Have you thought about when you

333
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,800
would do this?
May be where you would do this?

334
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,000
Tell me a little bit more about
even the past, right?

335
00:16:37,100 --> 00:16:39,500
We know that like people who
have attempted suicide in the

336
00:16:39,500 --> 00:16:42,200
past or more likely to make
another suicide attempt.

337
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,800
So different questions.
I think like that can really

338
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,800
help paint a fuller picture.
And why talk about it in a

339
00:16:47,808 --> 00:16:50,500
spectrum is because I think a
lot of times people here, yes to

340
00:16:50,500 --> 00:16:53,300
suicide and they kind of shut
down or run away, or maybe

341
00:16:53,300 --> 00:16:55,600
they're like, oh, I need to call
the emergency services, right.

342
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:59,100
There's a whole range of
responses when a lot of times

343
00:16:59,100 --> 00:17:02,100
when someone is thinking about
it, passively just listening and

344
00:17:02,100 --> 00:17:05,500
being there is really the key.
But obviously, there are times

345
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when we do need to get a
professional.

346
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,400
Bob, I always encourage folks
who don't have too much training

347
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,000
in this step, hey, like, you
don't have to be alone and doing

348
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,000
this right there are a lot of
tools out there.

349
00:17:15,099 --> 00:17:19,000
If you Google questions to ask
suicide Spectrum, there is like

350
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,000
web pages that kind of can lead
you through this.

351
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,900
But I always say the best
resource is to call Crisis Line.

352
00:17:23,900 --> 00:17:27,500
Together, have the crisis
counselors help with doing a

353
00:17:27,500 --> 00:17:30,900
assessment or even if they're
really against it, you can call

354
00:17:30,900 --> 00:17:32,800
the crisis line before the
conversation.

355
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,400
Kind of write down some of these
questions and get some guidance

356
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,000
because you're going to have
more context.

357
00:17:37,100 --> 00:17:38,700
Use it kind of like a
consultation.

358
00:17:38,700 --> 00:17:40,900
There's actually a lot of
third-party calls at these

359
00:17:40,900 --> 00:17:42,600
crisis lines.
A lot of people are like, well

360
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,100
I'm not the one in crisis.
I shouldn't be calling but dumb

361
00:17:45,100 --> 00:17:48,100
supporting you is a former
Suicide Prevention, right?

362
00:17:48,100 --> 00:17:50,400
So I think it is important for
folks to know that that's a

363
00:17:50,408 --> 00:17:54,600
service to help you gain more
knowledge around, how to conduct

364
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,400
a assessment, get a better sense
of what's going on and recognize

365
00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,800
like what your next steps?
Can be amazing.

366
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,400
Now I was astonished to learn.
That suicide is the second

367
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,000
leading cause of death for
people ages. 25 to 34.

368
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,700
But most shockingly to me, 10 to
14.

369
00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:14,200
I couldn't believe that suicide
is the second leading cause of

370
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,300
death among children tend to 14
years old.

371
00:18:17,300 --> 00:18:19,500
I mean, that is just
heartbreaking.

372
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,200
And so if I think about parents,
as caretakers imagining that a

373
00:18:23,208 --> 00:18:26,100
lot of your clients or the folks
that you're working with our

374
00:18:26,100 --> 00:18:29,100
parents and it's like when
they've got kids that say like

375
00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:31,200
you know they want to end it all
at sometimes, you don't know if

376
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,100
they're just doing it for
attention.

377
00:18:33,100 --> 00:18:35,600
Sometimes you just have a
combative relationship and so

378
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:37,800
it's like how in the world and
they They're practically

379
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,300
speaking different languages
because youth are so into their

380
00:18:41,300 --> 00:18:44,000
own culture versus perhaps the
parents.

381
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,800
And, you know, there seems to be
a bit of a divide between the

382
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,300
relationship of some parents and
kids.

383
00:18:49,300 --> 00:18:52,200
And so I'm just curious about
like, for those that are

384
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,200
caretakers.
And I know that you had

385
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,900
mentioned that a lot of what
people can do is take care of

386
00:18:56,900 --> 00:18:58,600
themselves.
First, if you're a parent,

387
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,100
that's already stressed out and
overwhelmed and I know how, you

388
00:19:01,100 --> 00:19:02,800
know being a working parent
myself.

389
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,500
It's like, there's only so much
that they can do, but then when

390
00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:09,100
you have a child who's extremely
College might be into drugs or

391
00:19:09,100 --> 00:19:12,300
there's peer pressure at school
which is just you know too much

392
00:19:12,300 --> 00:19:15,500
for the child to bear.
Like are there any things in the

393
00:19:15,500 --> 00:19:19,000
toolkit that parents in
particular of at-risk children

394
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,800
can be advised of.
I think that all of the things

395
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,700
that you mentioned are the
biggest challenges, right?

396
00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:27,100
Most of the clients that I work
with our parents.

397
00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:29,500
It's something that they have
added pressure on and there's so

398
00:19:29,500 --> 00:19:31,900
many different emotions.
I think, for parents, I think

399
00:19:31,900 --> 00:19:35,500
one that they commonly faced is
that there's a sense of the I

400
00:19:35,500 --> 00:19:36,900
caused this.
I think.

401
00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:39,400
That a lot of parents that I've
worked with have also said, when

402
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,600
we're in the therapist office,
right?

403
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:43,300
They are like, what did you do,
right?

404
00:19:43,300 --> 00:19:45,900
It's kind of like the blame is
cast it on the parents and

405
00:19:45,900 --> 00:19:48,800
unfortunately disproportionately
on Mothers as well.

406
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,500
Though, I think that this is
such an important topic, right?

407
00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:54,400
How do parents kind of engage?
And I always suggest parents

408
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:59,800
take the time to take a step
back and think about what your

409
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,400
values and beliefs are around
suicide.

410
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,800
Because again, right, like I
mentioned earlier, there is

411
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,400
never going to be the right
words to say, But it's like your

412
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,400
children are very perceptive and
they can feel where you're

413
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,100
coming, from them, kind of like
your intentions and whatnot.

414
00:20:14,100 --> 00:20:17,800
And when parents take the time
to really think about maybe some

415
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,400
biases that they have around
suicide and address that first

416
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,100
and really make sure that
they're approaching talking

417
00:20:24,100 --> 00:20:27,100
about suicide and approaching
caring for their child with.

418
00:20:27,100 --> 00:20:29,800
Hey, I just want you to be okay,
right.

419
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,900
Like I'm not coming into this
with the Judgment that I might

420
00:20:32,900 --> 00:20:35,000
have around suicide at large.
Right.

421
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,800
I think that's really important.
Of course, There are scenarios

422
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,100
where maybe there's a crisis at
hand and we're not able to kind

423
00:20:41,100 --> 00:20:43,900
of go through that first.
I always tell parents like being

424
00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:48,000
able to ask directly is also
really key parents are in the

425
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,600
position who helped kind of make
the environment safe, right,

426
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,400
whether that's, you know,
removing pills from the medicine

427
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,600
cabinet, and ensuring that if
they have guns in the home that

428
00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,100
children do not have access to
them.

429
00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:01,000
Right?
Ensuring that razors or not

430
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,100
accessible.
If knives are like stored

431
00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:06,900
safely, there's a lot that
parents can tangibly do as well.

432
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,100
I think that being able to kind
of think through some of those

433
00:21:10,100 --> 00:21:14,200
things, learn some skills around
how to approach topic and also

434
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,300
how to ask about and how to have
conversations with the child.

435
00:21:17,300 --> 00:21:20,300
They can really sense that like
hey this is coming out of care

436
00:21:20,300 --> 00:21:22,700
and then getting them to
professional supports and

437
00:21:22,700 --> 00:21:25,600
hopefully being open to working
collaboratively with the

438
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:26,400
professionals.
Right?

439
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,100
I think that that's also really
key.

440
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,800
A lot of times what happens is
when someone is in treatment for

441
00:21:31,900 --> 00:21:35,400
their maybe depression, whatnot.
And it's like there are suicidal

442
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,400
thoughts involved the therapist
August or even if it's like you

443
00:21:38,408 --> 00:21:40,900
go to the emergency room, you
call Crisis Line.

444
00:21:40,900 --> 00:21:44,400
What they do is work on a safety
plan with the person and I think

445
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,600
that being able to talk through
that safety plan with the child

446
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,600
saying like Okay, I know that
these things can activate

447
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,400
certain emotions in you mix
time, I noticed them, I can help

448
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,600
remind you that like, hey, are
you okay?

449
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,000
I'm going to take it as an
invitation to check it, right.

450
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,200
There is a list of things that
they can do and when your child

451
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,800
is in crisis, it's likely that
they might not remember those

452
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,600
things, right?
So, helping them make it more

453
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,700
accessible, right?
Maybe they like You go for a

454
00:22:07,700 --> 00:22:11,200
bike ride and we buy a bike and
have that be something that they

455
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,500
can do or maybe we can do
together as a family.

456
00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:17,100
So I think that like being able
to collaborate on what safety

457
00:22:17,100 --> 00:22:20,100
can look like, can be a really
important part and really

458
00:22:20,100 --> 00:22:23,600
involve the parents so that
they're not just sort of in this

459
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,900
like a distant.
I think that sometimes I've

460
00:22:25,900 --> 00:22:28,400
heard that from parents, like,
they feel like they just take

461
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,200
their child to therapy and they
don't know what's going on there

462
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,800
and then they're like, well, the
therapist only needs to be my

463
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,500
child for an hour or couple
hours a week when I have To be

464
00:22:37,500 --> 00:22:40,900
with them for 24/7.
So, I think that being able to

465
00:22:40,900 --> 00:22:43,600
be involved in that way is
really important as well.

466
00:22:43,700 --> 00:22:45,600
Yeah.
And I was just thinking about,

467
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,400
you know, some of the examples
that I've come across where, you

468
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,700
know, there might be a divorce
where maybe, you know the dad

469
00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:54,000
leaves, or what have you and
then all of a sudden, the child

470
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,000
feels like they're no longer
loved.

471
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,700
And there's this whole sense of
Oppression and identity that

472
00:22:58,700 --> 00:23:02,700
gets disintegrated, which leads
to self mutilation or just

473
00:23:02,700 --> 00:23:05,900
troubling behaviors and could
spiral but yeah, and the parent

474
00:23:05,900 --> 00:23:07,700
who's left there.
Feeling Helpless.

475
00:23:07,700 --> 00:23:10,200
Like there's like you're telling
me to buy a bike and it's not

476
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,000
like, it's almost for sure.
What more can I do to make sure

477
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,400
that my child is safe and
healthy and went and it almost

478
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,500
feels like the world is working
against you, where it's like

479
00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:22,900
everything in the media or
anything at school.

480
00:23:22,900 --> 00:23:26,100
Like it just seems like your
children might be subjected to

481
00:23:26,100 --> 00:23:30,000
all of these negative influences
that are beyond the parents

482
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:31,700
control.
And meanwhile everybody's

483
00:23:31,700 --> 00:23:33,600
pointing the finger at the
parents and saying you should

484
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,600
have known or, you know, you
should have a handle on your

485
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,000
own.
Child and then that makes them

486
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,900
feel even guiltier.
So it's a whole spiral, but it

487
00:23:40,900 --> 00:23:43,900
sounds like, you know, the first
thing to do is just that open

488
00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:46,300
communication.
It sounds like that is the start

489
00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:49,200
of any good relationship is just
like trying to be present in

490
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,500
there to talk through or really,
haven't let me know.

491
00:23:52,500 --> 00:23:56,200
A heart-to-heart conversation
may be a key to unlocking

492
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,000
certain healthier habits and
ways to help.

493
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,200
Not always, but certainly that
might be one way you're a film

494
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,000
that I actually recently had a
conversation with a client and

495
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,800
we came up with the theme.
Over communication, right?

496
00:24:08,900 --> 00:24:11,300
There's nothing that I should be
assuming about my child, right?

497
00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:13,500
I'm going to bring up
conversations and one of the

498
00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:16,900
things that hopefully I've
noticed work well with a lot of

499
00:24:16,900 --> 00:24:20,500
parents that I work with is also
giving more autonomy to their

500
00:24:20,500 --> 00:24:23,500
child, right?
So instead of saying like I need

501
00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:25,500
to have a conversation with you
about something really

502
00:24:25,500 --> 00:24:28,000
important, we need to do it
right now, let them know.

503
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,700
Hey, I want to talk with you
about some things regarding, you

504
00:24:31,700 --> 00:24:34,800
know, how you've been doing.
I know that it takes emotional

505
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,800
labor to have these
conversations.

506
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,100
It takes energy.
I know you have like a lot of

507
00:24:39,100 --> 00:24:41,400
exams or something this week.
When do you think might be a

508
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,500
good time for us to have this
conversation right?

509
00:24:43,500 --> 00:24:47,400
Of course, space determining by
like Crisis and safety.

510
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,900
There might be times when you
have to give a little bit less

511
00:24:49,900 --> 00:24:53,000
autonomy but doing something
like that can help the child

512
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,000
feel hey, like I feel my
boundaries or being respected.

513
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,300
I feel that it's not.
Just my parents are making this

514
00:24:58,300 --> 00:25:01,500
choice for me.
I have a say and when I talk

515
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:04,700
about this, whether it's that or
instead of saying like, hey, you

516
00:25:04,700 --> 00:25:07,700
have to go to a therapist saying
like hey let's For therapist

517
00:25:07,700 --> 00:25:09,200
together.
Let's make sure that we find the

518
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,300
right fit and we find a program
looks like we can look through

519
00:25:12,300 --> 00:25:13,900
the treatment centers and their
websites.

520
00:25:13,900 --> 00:25:16,400
And you can pick which one you
think that you would want to go

521
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,400
to the most.
So, again, instead of being more

522
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,400
directive, allowing them to gain
more power in the situation in a

523
00:25:22,408 --> 00:25:25,300
way that's safe.
I think those two factors are

524
00:25:25,300 --> 00:25:28,200
kind of common themes that I've
seen work well for parents.

525
00:25:28,700 --> 00:25:31,600
Wonderful.
I'm just curious to about maybe

526
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,500
it's an older person.
Maybe it's an older person that,

527
00:25:34,500 --> 00:25:36,800
you know, just feels like there
at the ends of life and they

528
00:25:36,900 --> 00:25:39,700
Might be talking about like,
mortality and morbidity?

529
00:25:39,700 --> 00:25:42,300
Is that something to be alarmed
about?

530
00:25:42,300 --> 00:25:44,000
Is that something to be
concerned about?

531
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,700
Or do you think that that's more
natural when you're getting

532
00:25:46,700 --> 00:25:49,400
towards the end of years?
And you might have an illness,

533
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,000
or you might have certain
feelings that, you know, I'm

534
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,700
ready to go.
I'm just curious what your

535
00:25:55,700 --> 00:25:58,500
perspective is on that.
Yeah, no I think that's a great

536
00:25:58,500 --> 00:26:00,800
question and also brings up a
lot of different other

537
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,000
conversations, right like with
assisted suicide and what not my

538
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,200
perspective on it.
As you know I work with people.

539
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,800
I work with in the Drawers.
And in that case, I really want

540
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,000
to know what it means for them.
I'm always going to be curious

541
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,800
about what it means for them and
ask about it as opposed to like,

542
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,700
you know, because I actually
think some of those thoughts,

543
00:26:18,700 --> 00:26:21,900
even not for older people about
mortality and whatnot is Pretty

544
00:26:21,900 --> 00:26:25,200
Natural but I never know what it
is for a certain individual,

545
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,300
right?
So I think always kind of taking

546
00:26:27,300 --> 00:26:31,200
them seriously, taking them at
face value and asking about them

547
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:35,000
and caring about it is always I
would say kind of my to go just

548
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,000
because like even if someone One
is saying certain things and

549
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,300
it's just part of this process.
It could be helpful to talk

550
00:26:41,300 --> 00:26:43,100
about, right?
Even if someone is saying

551
00:26:43,100 --> 00:26:45,900
something because they want
attention, there's probably some

552
00:26:45,900 --> 00:26:49,000
pain and suffering there and
that's leading to them

553
00:26:49,100 --> 00:26:52,700
mentioning suicide and talking
about these things that would

554
00:26:52,700 --> 00:26:54,100
kind of bring attention to them,
right?

555
00:26:54,100 --> 00:26:56,100
It's a probably a way to ask for
help.

556
00:26:56,100 --> 00:26:59,800
So I think that always exploring
always being curious would be

557
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,500
sort of my first thought in
situations like that.

558
00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:05,500
Yeah, good point because it
could be a natural part of the

559
00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:08,100
grieving process.
Maybe they'll Ask their spouse,

560
00:27:08,100 --> 00:27:10,900
you know and said they feel
alone and they might just be

561
00:27:10,900 --> 00:27:13,700
like oh I want to be with my
spouse or something to that

562
00:27:13,700 --> 00:27:17,200
effect, but it could be just in
that moment, they could be

563
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,900
feeling so overwhelmed with
grief and then or even

564
00:27:19,900 --> 00:27:22,800
supporting them at that point
and then helping them see the

565
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,500
good in life and all the
benefits so sticking around

566
00:27:25,500 --> 00:27:27,700
until it's so God calls you
home, right?

567
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,100
Well your hallelujah thank you
so much for being on the show

568
00:27:31,100 --> 00:27:35,200
today, I am so grateful for your
work and I am going to put your

569
00:27:35,300 --> 00:27:36,800
information in the show notes
that people.

570
00:27:36,900 --> 00:27:40,000
People can find you and learn a
little bit more about suicide is

571
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,300
different.
It could be truly truly helpful

572
00:27:42,300 --> 00:27:45,700
for those that are in need.
Thank you, thank you so much.

573
00:27:45,700 --> 00:27:49,000
Thanks again, thank you for
listening to the human Beauty

574
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,400
movement podcast.
Be sure to follow rate and

575
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,300
review us wherever you stream
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576
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,300
The human Beauty movement is a
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577
00:27:58,300 --> 00:28:01,400
That cultivates, the beauty of
humankind, check out our

578
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,300
workshops, find us on social
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579
00:28:05,300 --> 00:28:09,000
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In your life, learn more at the

580
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,400
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Movement.com, thank you so much

581
00:28:12,500 --> 00:28:13,800
for being a beautiful human.