Episode 49: Chris Hutchinson - Secrets Of Being A Great Leader And Building Strong Organizations

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Hello, beautiful humans.
Welcome to another episode of

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Role Models gz conversations
with beautiful humans.

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I'm Jennifer Norman founder of
the human Beauty movement and

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your host, this podcast thrives
on your support.

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So if you like what you hear,
follow us radis reviewers, share

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this episode with everyone, you
know, across your networks.

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So, I have a question for
everyone.

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Who's listening Listening, do
you consider yourself a great

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leader, a great team, player,
both or none of the above today,

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we're going to talk about what
it takes to rise to the

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occasion, and make your presence
bigger in your organization and

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in your life.
My guest is Chris, Hutchinson,

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Chris is the founder of
trebuchet group, a certified B

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corporation.
That helps bring out the best in

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organizations and people.
Now Chris calls himself and

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abundance influencer, he helps
coach and mentor People on

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building effective leadership
skills, and great teams.

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Welcome Chris.
Thank you, Jennifer.

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It's wonderful to be with you.
I am delighted to have this

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conversation.
It is so important because I

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would say, it doesn't matter who
you are or what you do.

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You could be a young student,
you could be the CEO of a

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multi-billion dollar
Corporation.

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I think there's one thing that
all of us humans have in common

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and that is the frustration or
the fear of not living up to our

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potential.
Would you say that you would

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agree?
I absolutely do.

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I think that's something whether
it's on the surface or deep

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within that.
A lot of people are trying to

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figure out how to be enough and
how to be with others and be

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enough.
Yeah, yeah.

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Now I want to wind it back to
2002 when you started the

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trebuchet group, what was it
that caused you to think?

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You know, I think there's an
opportunity to help people with

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leadership and with
organizations.

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Well, that's such a good
question and I'm going to have

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to wind it back a little bit
further.

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So when I was graduating from
college and I was a brand new

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wet-behind-the-ears mechanical
engineer and a Tenant in the US

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Air Force, I went through ROTC
to pay for my degree.

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I was on a team where there was
the leader.

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Well, it was really challenging,
I would just tell you that the

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environment on the team was,
keep your head down hide in the

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grass, you know, don't put
yourself out there because

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you're going to get criticized.
And if you bring any bad news,

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having forbid things were going
to be bad.

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And I was thinking my four-year
commitment was like a four-year

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sentence.
I'm in trouble.

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Yeah, this is not what I thought
it was going to be and luckily

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things change in big
organizations.

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They have rotate people through
and I get put on a different

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team essentially.
And this Steam was hey, I'm

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really strong at this.
You don't seem like you've got

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that, let me help you and I
noticed that you have a

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superpower here.
How can we harness that lots of

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communication?
Lots of open, is it was amazing?

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I mean, I jumped out of bed,
wanting to contribute feeling

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great.
And the reality was, I said, I

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went to a different team, a
different team was created

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because one person changed on
the team, the leader changed and

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I realized it didn't matter how
good of an engineer.

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I wasn't any of my colleagues.
If we had a leader who wasn't

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helping bring out the best in us
getting Clarity and helping us

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communicate like on team to team
one was really not.

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I was depressed.
I didn't really enjoy coming to

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work at all.
Team two, I loved contributing

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and I would do whatever I needed
to do.

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So that influence me through the
Air Force and through Corporate

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America and in 2002, our leader
at the time, it division a

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Motorola dropped us from 3,000
people to 20 and 18 months, 20,

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they were technological
challenges in the Mark was hard,

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but it was really a leadership
failure.

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And as I got out, I thought,
okay, great, I have a severance,

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this is a gift.
And what do I want to do with

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this?
How do I want to take these

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learnings?
I've done and help other people,

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learn them not as a guru sitting
on the hill, but as a partner

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beside people, helping them
discover what they need and

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perhaps, giving a tool here or
some advice there or bolster

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here, so that they can be their
most excellent self as a leader

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and enable that in others.
It's so fascinating.

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How the tone and the spirit of
the leader makes such a

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difference.
Everywhere.

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You go.
It really is said, everybody is

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looking up to that leader for
cues on how they should be, what

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the tone is of an organization.
And You know how people are

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going to operate.
Can you tell us what in your

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opinion are the traits of our
great leader?

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Well, I think great leaders
really I think do an able in a

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positive way.
The best within others right now

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our team is a set a goal for the
next year we set one as an

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intention and figure out what
are we going to do besides the

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work that we do how are we going
to continue evolving or

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accompanying each other?
And our goal is thriving in our

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sweet spots so it means as a
company as individuals where the

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place is not that we get to live
out there all the time.

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Do only the fun things but How
can we tap our strengths?

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And so I think really great
leaders.

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Are they understand their own
strengths first of all.

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So if I understand my strengths,
I will see your differences as

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your strengths, not as I'm
normal.

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And if you're like me, you're
normal, and if you're not,

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you're abnormal, you know, a lot
of people don't really realize

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their strengths.
So knowing those strengths being

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able to understand what my path
might be, not as a rigid step,

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but where am I going?
And how might I invite you along

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with it for as long as we get to
go together?

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And then I think it's a lot
around being, how do I develop

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trust and really give trust
first as a leader.

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It's not well, Wait, till
somebody is trustworthy, how do

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I become vulnerable?
And open to what we need to do

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together?
I'm learning just as much, maybe

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even more than the people that
time, quote, have air quotes

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here leading, when I have that
deep connection with them, I

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believe that I will equip you,
and uniquely for the thing

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rather than treating use a cog.
Here's the roll, this is what

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this person does.
Like how can you make that role

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seeing how do we equip that we
get the best for everyone?

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And then finally, the last part.
So I know myself, I'm really

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working well with others and
enabling the best and then we

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all turn towards the
Organization.

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And that's where we say, well,
what's effective, what's the

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right things to do?
And then eventually we figure

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out how can we do those really
right?

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So efficiency.
So I think the pieces that make

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a good leader, a lot of
companies come to come the other

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way.
They start with, let's be

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efficient.
Well, that didn't work.

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Let's reorganize, we need to be
different and effective.

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Oh, that didn't work.
I didn't give you the tools that

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you needed.
Well, that didn't work, as I

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didn't treat you as anything
more than just a blob, you know,

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human resource.
And if those things aren't

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happening, then it comes into
me.

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Am I in the right actions
around, the things that are

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challenging, difficult and
important?

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And then if I'm not there, do I
know myself?

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So, I think I've told you the
path one way through and the

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path lot of organizations sort
of show up with.

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Yeah, fascinating back.
When I was an MBA students, one

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of my favorite classes of all
time was organizational

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behavior.
It's so weird.

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It was brilliant because it was
a social experiment, the class

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divided into two different teams
and there were two different

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classes and so there were four
teams total and we had to create

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an organization come up with a
product.

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Or service and sell it.
And at the end, it was, you

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know, whoever made the most
sales with whoever was the most

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functional organization.
And a lot of the top items that

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we had learned in the class, we
had to put into actual real term

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practice.
And so it was fascinating

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because you definitely saw the
dysfunction in certain groups

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and at certain times of stress
and moments, you saw the rise of

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what we would consider either
natural-born leaders or the ones

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that Rose to the challenge of
wanting to actually take that

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front and then other separately.
Great followers.

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And it was just interesting to
see how quickly all of that had

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two bills because by the end of
the semester, you're going to

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get graded on it.
And so I often think you know

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this predated a lot of virtual
TV like Survivor and whatnot and

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you were living it, you are just
watching it.

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We were living it.
We were absolutely living at but

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I was just curious from your
standpoint because I used the

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term natural-born leaders and I
think about some people would

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say yeah, that there is this
inherent gift that some people

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Have maybe it's the first born
child or do.

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You think that there are any
specific traits in humans that

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make them better leaders just
inherently?

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Or is it a skill that can be
learned?

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Yes.
So that's the short answer is,

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both is our true.
The, in fact, the most inherent

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trait for a really great
leaders, something that I don't

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think many people in they think
of great leadership would put

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together, but I was challenged
one time.

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Because in my book, I wrote
down, you know, everybody's a

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leader.
You know, I think of my

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five-year-old, son, bouncing
across the couch.

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Cushions my to Daughter was
following him doing exactly what

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he was doing.
We imitate.

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We look at things, you know,
that's the way that we as humans

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kind of learn and work together
and the person's like, I don't

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think that and instead, could
anyone be a great leader?

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Really?
Good question.

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I think that the most important
thing for a good leader, anybody

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can be a good leader.
Anybody can walk through them

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techniques and, you know, follow
the self discovery and learn all

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this stuff.
But really if you don't like

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people, and you're not willing
to sort of do hard things in the

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service of something bigger,
you're probably not going to be

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a great leader, you'll be okay,
leader, you'll do.

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All right, I think that's That's
what the core of leadership is.

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I'm willing to I'm not doing
this for me to set on a big

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Golden Throne and take, you
know, hors d'oeuvres.

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It's more of.
I am in service to something

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bigger and I'm inviting you to
do the same and I'm with that

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there's all sorts of things.
I'm going to do it because and I

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have to, like people in some way
and care about them.

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People are people.
They are tough.

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I had a client was like you
know, if my people were just so

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people, everything would be
easy.

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I'm like, yeah, you're right.
And that's the way that we're

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getting, it's done, right
people.

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The thing that fascinates me in
the organization Behavior, Your

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stuff that I've done some things
here and there in terms of

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taking some classes is that
everybody is completely unique.

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I mean I get to see so many
people and everybody's unique

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and at the same time, there
seemed to be a limited number of

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patterns that we fall into when
were in groups, you know, I

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could probably I think there's a
book on my shelf and says the

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nine, major plots and
everything's just a subplot of

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that for screenwriters or
somebody's, right?

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It's kind of that way with roots
of people as you said, there's

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certain things that emerge and
people to step up or step down

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or somebody's like I'm going to
bleed through an intellectual

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superiority or whatever.
No, those things just sort of

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happen and people interact
around them and those patterns

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aren't infinite.
There are a small number.

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I never judge people on the
never go.

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Oh, that's the pattern.
I say hmm, looks like it's might

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be coming up.
What sort of things might be

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helpful here?
How do we help everybody be

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their best selves.
When it might be clearly

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apparent, people are mmm.
Now, as far as the clients that

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come to trebuchet, is it usually
the leader of the organization

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that says I need help or is it
human resources or is it you

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know somebody else within the
organization that says we need

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help?
You've been through this

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Jennifer I can tell.
Okay so I would tell you the

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most effective places when the
leader or the couple of senior

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leaders come together and said
you know what?

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We think this team has more
capacity and our organization

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working past and we are
exercising and we want to be

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part of whatever we're going to
do the ones where HR comes and

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says oh my God we're struggling
you know everything's trying to

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do it.
We're having a hard time in the

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frequently the leaders have a
shadow a blind spot that's

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hunting affecting the
organization and people don't

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have the authority to say hey
you have a blind spot not that

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we walk in and say hey we have
once we actually rather than

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talk Talk about what's wrong.
We like to say, what are we

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doing great?
What could be better?

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What's getting in the way?
Let's go.

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And so we have a very positive
perspective to support leaders

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Egos and to people's Egos and
says, you know, we're not bad.

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We're doing the best we can.
Even if it doesn't get us what

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we want, and it's so exciting.
When we have a team of people

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that discovered, what change in
Behavior, how they're going to

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work together, the clarity that
they needed, everybody's the

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same in the room and we now can
get to where we need to go and

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that's really fun.
So it does require.

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We've had some people that come
up and say you weak you know,

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you got to go fix somebody, we
got to fix this boss.

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We have this fixes Then I say,
you know, as a recovering

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mechanical engineer, I can fix
things.

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I don't think people should be
or could be fixed now.

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If we create conditions where
they want to shift their

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behavior and that supports where
we're wanting to go, I think

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that we could have a better
situation.

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Mmm.
Now when you start working with

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an organization, a client, is
there a specific Playbook that

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you use to get to know what the
situation is and then how you're

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going to address and be able to
work with them on going on

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whatever it is that they wish to
achieve.

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Yeah there's a lot.
Of different doors that people

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come to us in different
situations.

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Yeah, I said Limited in some
ways in the patterns, but the

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situations are always
completely, you know, the same

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company and has two different
things going on or two different

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companies, that same thing going
on.

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So there's a couple different
doors.

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We go through, one of them is
that the model we're not getting

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the results we quite want.
Maybe there's friction on the

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team that's you know, heating up
or are causing problems.

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Maybe they've lost some good
people and then so they say so

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we would ask questions of the
person approaching us.

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Let's say it's HR.
You say, hey, we don't know.

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We're trying to figure out if we
could be better.

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All right, let's talk.
About what good would look like

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and where your, let's then go
talk with the leaders and see

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what they think is possible.
And then, that would be the Q.

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Usually involves the senior
leadership team.

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Because if the senior leader and
Senior leadership team, don't

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shift the organization, can't
move, it can't change, you know,

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you could train everybody on
something.

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And it would just go back to the
way it was because that's the

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reinforcing Behavior.
So it's really good.

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When those folks show up,
sometimes they'll look at

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themselves and say I can tell
that I'm not, you know, I'm in a

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place.
I've never been before like oh I

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don't know a pandemic hybrid
work, why don't?

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To see people or people that
have been hired that I never

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even physically met.
That's really challenging for

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weatherization that didn't start
in remote and you know how the

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heck do I lead in this.
So sometimes it's those kind of

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things.
So we're exploring in that case.

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What is the organization need
first?

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And what is the leader deeply
want to connect with that and

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grow themselves.
Because if they're growing then

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the organization can move
towards that space versus you

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00:12:49,900 --> 00:12:52,800
know, we don't do the go fix
them or go do that to them.

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Recent post by Seth Godin said
there's people who do things for

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people to people and with people
and I think that's a leader.

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The I do things for I serve
overdone that becomes like

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you're dependent on me if I do
two things to you.

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I think that's a position of
like I'm better and I really I

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frankly I really don't like that
at all and so we are never in

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that space.
We follow a lot of clients that

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deal with Consultants who have
done the things to them.

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I believe it's doing things with
people and so if it was the team

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we might talk with the team and
say, hey, what's going on?

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00:13:21,100 --> 00:13:23,900
Well what's not going well yet?
What's missing are unclear and

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then we bring those results back
anonymously.

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And say Here's Where the team
kind of is, what would that

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mean?
Would it benefit to?

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00:13:29,700 --> 00:13:32,300
To have Clarity around what's
our deep purpose and what are

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00:13:32,300 --> 00:13:35,100
the ways we live it out
otherwise known as values and

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00:13:35,100 --> 00:13:37,600
what's going on that we need to
do better and then what does

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that mean right now?
For me so there's sort of this

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00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,200
Cascade of from the high level
of connection all the way down

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00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:44,900
to how am I doing?
Or it might be.

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00:13:44,900 --> 00:13:46,100
One of the things we do is
called goal.

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00:13:46,100 --> 00:13:49,300
Focus team building where we
help people experience, without

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00:13:49,300 --> 00:13:52,300
trust Falls and squishy toys are
helping people experience.

324
00:13:52,300 --> 00:13:54,500
What it's like to be vulnerable
with each other, to really get

325
00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:57,100
to know each other in a short
amount of time to in service of

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00:13:57,108 --> 00:13:59,000
the business.
Not again, touchy-feely, I work

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with a lot of me.
Engineers and they were just run

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from the room, right?
You know, touchy-feely.

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00:14:03,100 --> 00:14:05,600
But if you're like, well, if I
know your strengths and, you

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know, my strengths, we probably
could get better together like,

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hmm.
Okay, we have more healthy

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00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:11,800
conflict.
Our commitment is deeper than to

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00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:13,900
the goals that we've decided on.
And we can hold each other

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00:14:13,900 --> 00:14:15,100
accountable.
We don't have to wait for the

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00:14:15,100 --> 00:14:18,200
boss so that the results we get
our Collective first.

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00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,000
So I just threw a whole bunch of
stuff off our individual tool

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00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:22,900
belt at you Jennifer.
But and we really try to meet

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00:14:22,900 --> 00:14:25,700
people where they are and walk
through shared discovery of

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00:14:25,700 --> 00:14:27,700
where we could be and what could
be getting in the way

340
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:29,700
fascinating.
You know, I worked for a A

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00:14:29,708 --> 00:14:33,000
number of larger companies
earlier in my day.

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And I remember one specifically
and these were, you know, large

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00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,800
Fortune, 500 companies, very
successful, one of the

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00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,600
companies, the human resource
manager, would typically say

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00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:48,000
every organization gets the
results that they are set up to

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00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:48,700
get.
Yes.

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And I thought that was a
fascinating Insight.

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It was also intriguing that in a
number of these large

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00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,000
organizations that were just
killing it in terms of

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00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:02,100
financials, you know, Profitable
year over year growth, all of

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00:15:02,100 --> 00:15:07,000
that, the people whenever we
would do these reviews and, you

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00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:10,500
know, the self-assessments, not
terrible, terrible morale.

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Terrible work-life balance
itself that they needed to

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00:15:13,700 --> 00:15:17,100
practically murder themselves in
order to get everything done on

355
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time and to the rigor that they
want to.

356
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Because they felt that that was
their measurements, their ruler

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of success, you know, how much
am I bringing in for the

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organization and at what cost I
think that?

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Because we've all been through
the past few years that we have

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there's been a shift and a lot
of that.

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And we're now talking more about
work-life balance.

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00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,600
We're talking about mental
Wellness, we're talking about

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well-being from a holistic
perspective.

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00:15:42,900 --> 00:15:45,800
We're getting more into the
things that I think that the men

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00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,800
that you're used to working with
we're typically run from the

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00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,900
hills you know we're starting to
get more into the touchy-feely.

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I wanted to just ask you like
what are some of the changes

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00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,500
that you've seen happen and that
leaders, that of maybe it has?

369
00:15:59,700 --> 00:16:02,900
Kind of leadership style or
mindset that worked very well

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00:16:02,900 --> 00:16:05,600
for an extended period of time
might be like, oh, things are

371
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:07,700
changing, I don't know if I'm
comfortable with this.

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00:16:07,700 --> 00:16:10,500
How do you walk somebody through
a whole shift?

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00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:14,500
That happens with Millennials
and gen Z years coming into the

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00:16:14,500 --> 00:16:16,300
workforce.
No, that's just, it's such a

375
00:16:16,300 --> 00:16:20,100
simple question.
Jennifer, this is so easy.

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00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,200
I'm do we have.
Yeah, how much time do we have?

377
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:23,800
Yeah, I'm trying to think the
places to go.

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00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,700
So you asked about how to help
somebody threw this in sort of

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00:16:26,708 --> 00:16:29,500
the shifts that are happening.
And then, in a way you hinted at

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00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,100
The let's see what if I could
heard it called domestication, I

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00:16:33,108 --> 00:16:37,000
think is Don Miguel Ruiz tells
we get domesticated, we get

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00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,600
trained to be a certain way and
so a lot of times I will tell

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00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,500
you as a sideline when we have
people that come to work with us

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00:16:43,500 --> 00:16:45,600
like directly like is part of
our team.

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00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:50,200
Usually, it takes about the
first year almost a year and a

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00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,400
half till we can help them
unlearn those self protective

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00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,900
behaviors and holding the shiny.
Cut out in front of us and just

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00:16:56,900 --> 00:16:57,800
saying I'm fine.
I'm fine.

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Everything's okay.
So it really I think I feel

390
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,500
honored to and privilege to be
able to lead that by saying,

391
00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:06,500
today's been kind of hard and
I'm struggling with this and I'm

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00:17:06,500 --> 00:17:08,599
tearing up about something that
matters a lot, there's

393
00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:11,300
touchy-feely that's artificial
and there's real genuine

394
00:17:11,300 --> 00:17:13,700
presence in connection.
Where we human with each other?

395
00:17:13,700 --> 00:17:15,800
Which can look emotional?
You can be that way.

396
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:17,500
So Google did the Aristotle
project.

397
00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:19,599
I don't know if you've heard
about that, that was where they

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00:17:19,700 --> 00:17:21,300
measured hundreds of teams and
found out.

399
00:17:21,300 --> 00:17:23,599
What was the thing that made the
biggest difference in the team's

400
00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:25,400
performance and head and
shoulders above.

401
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,599
All of them was emotional
safety.

402
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:29,500
So, psychological safety, I
could be me.

403
00:17:29,500 --> 00:17:32,500
I I could say this is a hard day
or I'm struggling because my dog

404
00:17:32,500 --> 00:17:35,400
is dying or, you know, anything
could be happening, so you can

405
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,200
hear that.
Connecting with what you just

406
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:38,800
asked is like, well, how do you
have these people that are

407
00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,400
showing up, like, work needs to
be my community, work needs to

408
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,900
be, especially in the pandemic.
I think a lot of people were

409
00:17:44,900 --> 00:17:47,400
collapsed down to who were they
interacting with most?

410
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:49,600
Even it was online.
I need a counselor.

411
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,200
I want somebody who can coach
me, not only in what I'm doing

412
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,300
here at work, but how that fits
into the rest of my life?

413
00:17:54,300 --> 00:17:57,000
And I think there's a lot of
people who never signed up for

414
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:58,700
that, right?
They barely know what they're

415
00:17:58,700 --> 00:18:01,400
doing.
In terms of I just go to work.

416
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,800
I do my work right those people
are I think moving on out of the

417
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,100
you know because that was sort
of generational and I think

418
00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:11,000
there's an opportunity for
leaders to say can I be in touch

419
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,100
with what's important to me
safely not spreading it on

420
00:18:14,100 --> 00:18:17,000
people spring it on people but
safely in a way that allows that

421
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,700
for other people and what's
really cool Jennifer is that the

422
00:18:19,700 --> 00:18:22,300
people, the leaders, who do that
the men and women who do that,

423
00:18:22,300 --> 00:18:24,600
they get to a place where
they're enjoying their

424
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,600
experience significantly better.
They'll like, you know, I'm

425
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,100
sleeping better.
And I'm having this good stuff.

426
00:18:28,100 --> 00:18:29,500
I don't usually go directly to
lie.

427
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:31,200
Let's do counseling.
First of all, I'm not a

428
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:32,800
counselor.
I mean, we do a lot of work

429
00:18:32,900 --> 00:18:35,700
recovering engineer done this
for 20 years but we talk about

430
00:18:35,700 --> 00:18:38,000
what's great in the business and
what excites you about that?

431
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:39,800
So there's a connection there
but it's kind of like the

432
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,900
business reason for doing it.
And once we do that, then people

433
00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:45,500
start seeing oh you know what
the business got better, when I

434
00:18:45,500 --> 00:18:46,900
was more in touch with what I
could do.

435
00:18:46,900 --> 00:18:49,300
And I can honestly say, hey, I
tender for, that's a better idea

436
00:18:49,300 --> 00:18:52,500
than my or I screwed up or
Jennifer, I need your help.

437
00:18:52,500 --> 00:18:55,000
I can't do this, you know, then
we're a team then we're able to

438
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:56,800
be more than the just strong
pillars.

439
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,500
That normally teams are so I
think it's an opportunity.

440
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,500
For people who have had
different leadership styles to

441
00:19:02,500 --> 00:19:04,900
sort of step back and decide,
what do they want to happening

442
00:19:04,900 --> 00:19:06,300
in the world?
And how do they want to step

443
00:19:06,300 --> 00:19:07,900
into that?
And having support to do, that

444
00:19:07,900 --> 00:19:09,800
is really important.
Because like, if it's just me,

445
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:11,900
I'll do what I do.
And if it's different, it's hard

446
00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:14,500
and I probably will slide back
to, where they, the way I do it.

447
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:16,000
Hmm.
I don't know how much it

448
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:17,300
answered that really tough
question there.

449
00:19:17,300 --> 00:19:19,400
Ya know you did a great job with
that.

450
00:19:19,500 --> 00:19:22,800
Thank you.
Now, for all of those leaders of

451
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,500
organizations, or leaders of
households, that might be

452
00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:29,600
listening.
We talked about being able to

453
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:34,400
All to be vulnerable.
We talked about working with not

454
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,400
to and in some cases for but in
a balanced way, what are some of

455
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,800
the other things that people can
say, you know let me stop and

456
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,600
think about, you know, what, my
behavior is or what I'm

457
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,900
projecting, what are some of the
things that you've noticed

458
00:19:47,900 --> 00:19:50,800
really help in perhaps the
shortest or the least amount of

459
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,600
time.
Another killer question sum up

460
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,500
all this experience.
That's what I'm doing.

461
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,200
Just be like, okay, what's the
next question?

462
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,400
She's gonna give me great.
So, how do I get in touch?

463
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:08,700
I think I would say the most
important thing is to be curious

464
00:20:08,900 --> 00:20:12,500
and listen, mmm, I think those
are the two if I bought it all

465
00:20:12,500 --> 00:20:16,000
down to curiosity, and not in
the luxurious, why the hell

466
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,300
you're not doing this?
That's not curiosity.

467
00:20:18,300 --> 00:20:22,500
We will say that the curiosity
like, real genuine honest,

468
00:20:22,500 --> 00:20:26,000
curiosity and listening and I
think when that connection you

469
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,800
can find, people people want to
be heard and people want to be

470
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,800
able to be understood.
Stood and have their ideas

471
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:32,500
considered.
They don't have to have the way

472
00:20:32,500 --> 00:20:35,000
that things go doesn't have to
be their way but if they're not

473
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,500
any of those above like I'm not
listen to.

474
00:20:36,500 --> 00:20:39,800
I'm not appreciated in any way.
Yeah, I'm going to either show

475
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,100
up and just kind of idle like
quite quitting or I'm going to

476
00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:45,600
maybe fight back which those
people are actually easier to

477
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,500
redirect than somebody who just
disengages because they care.

478
00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:49,700
That's why they're fighting
back, right?

479
00:20:49,700 --> 00:20:51,800
So let's what are we cool?
You fight for together?

480
00:20:51,900 --> 00:20:55,300
And one example I can give and I
haven't had the privilege and to

481
00:20:55,300 --> 00:20:57,100
listen to a lot of your other
episodes.

482
00:20:57,100 --> 00:20:58,800
I'm sure you have some really
cool Role Models.

483
00:20:58,900 --> 00:21:00,400
Have you heard?
Could be Thea.

484
00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:02,900
Yeah.
So I could be Thea is an amazing

485
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,600
coach and I think diversity
consultant.

486
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:09,000
I'm not sure she was on a brene
brown podcast and she talked

487
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,600
about this.
So at the core of this way to

488
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,600
deal with the really tough
issues of like, I feel

489
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,000
oppressed, or I'm doing things
that people are feeling a

490
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,900
pressing or we're not honoring
each other microaggressions, all

491
00:21:20,900 --> 00:21:23,500
the things that can happen, most
of which are unintentional, at

492
00:21:23,500 --> 00:21:25,400
least on the conscious level.
I'm not intending to hurt

493
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,200
anybody rather than calling
people out.

494
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,400
She went through this practice
of calling people in and there's

495
00:21:29,500 --> 00:21:32,200
Curiosity and listening in it.
So the way it starts is if let's

496
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,500
say you said something and it
kind of hit me and I was like,

497
00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:37,300
Wow gosh, you know, but you're
the boss Jennifer and I just I

498
00:21:37,308 --> 00:21:39,900
just have to suck it up.
Or unlike do I fight back and my

499
00:21:39,900 --> 00:21:42,500
Frozen, like, what the hell?
And if I can stay in curiosity,

500
00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:44,800
that keeps me out of judgment
because you can't be curious and

501
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:46,800
judgmental.
The same time, it's really

502
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:47,800
important.
Good thing.

503
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:49,900
And so, if I'm curious, when I
say Jennifer, what were you?

504
00:21:49,900 --> 00:21:53,100
Hoping would be a result of you
sharing that information, or

505
00:21:53,100 --> 00:21:55,600
asking me, how can we get a real
facilitator here?

506
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,500
You know, whatever the comment
would be if you were the leader

507
00:21:57,500 --> 00:21:59,800
and I've done this like
literally with people's Sitting

508
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,400
around me in the room and just
done that and said, I'm really

509
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,400
truly curious is not a technique
and then I listened and you say,

510
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,500
well, I'm trying to make sure,
you know, I think we're doing

511
00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:10,300
good things and whatever, you
know, and I'll probably feel the

512
00:22:10,300 --> 00:22:12,400
sting lesson if I understand
your intent.

513
00:22:12,500 --> 00:22:15,400
And then I can say, okay, thank
you, Jim for that helps me.

514
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,300
How open, would you be to
hearing how it impacted me

515
00:22:18,300 --> 00:22:20,800
initially?
And then I would say, yeah, I

516
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,500
felt like, what am I doing here?
And I must not be a real

517
00:22:23,500 --> 00:22:25,900
facilitator.
And then I thought I'm in one

518
00:22:25,900 --> 00:22:28,800
place and if that wasn't your
intention, you'd say holy cow.

519
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,600
Wow, I Know that that would
happen.

520
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,500
And then we can both say, well,
what do we want to do going

521
00:22:32,500 --> 00:22:35,100
forward and that Curiosity and
listening and the connection?

522
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,200
I can't tell you how powerful
that is for anybody in any

523
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,000
circumstance.
I think is one the most powerful

524
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,800
tools I've ever had in helping a
line people together.

525
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,300
And what are we trying to do?
And if you indeed were like,

526
00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:47,100
well, I think you're a shitty
facilitator.

527
00:22:47,100 --> 00:22:49,700
You're not very good and you
need to go and we need somebody

528
00:22:49,700 --> 00:22:51,500
who can really do this.
Thank you for letting me know

529
00:22:51,500 --> 00:22:53,000
that.
How can we set up the?

530
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,300
I'd like the team to be okay.
I would literally do this in the

531
00:22:55,300 --> 00:22:58,800
middle of a room because I think
to me as a leader being

532
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,600
vulnerable is Very important.
And there is times we've seen

533
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,700
this.
When as a facilitator, I'm not

534
00:23:03,700 --> 00:23:05,800
the leader.
And yet, I can set the example.

535
00:23:06,300 --> 00:23:09,100
If I am vulnerable in front of
other people in a way that

536
00:23:09,100 --> 00:23:11,900
supports what we need to do,
they essentially just got a

537
00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:14,200
little way to say, oh, I'm gonna
be able to do that too.

538
00:23:14,300 --> 00:23:16,600
I'm very often, it's the CEO
really needs.

539
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,400
That example, our could benefit
from that because, oh, you don't

540
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,200
have to be perfect.
Oh, you don't have to have every

541
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:22,600
answer.
Oh, you could look to the group

542
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,300
for help because that's what I'm
doing, facilitative Lee, and

543
00:23:25,300 --> 00:23:29,400
those are very effective ways to
connect and lead people that is

544
00:23:29,500 --> 00:23:32,800
Is so fascinating.
Yes, the listening and making

545
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,600
sure that you understand what
was just said and understand

546
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,700
what was just heard at the
understanding.

547
00:23:38,700 --> 00:23:42,600
Underneath the listening is so
key because then you can really

548
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,500
get to the humanness of what's
going on in an ordinary

549
00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:48,900
situation which would otherwise
be, okay.

550
00:23:48,900 --> 00:23:51,300
I'm going to put the vinegar on
and be like, oh, thank you, I

551
00:23:51,300 --> 00:23:53,700
respect that.
And if you don't build those

552
00:23:53,700 --> 00:23:56,600
connections, you don't get
curious enough to really dig

553
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,400
into the meat and the Heart of
what those Jews.

554
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,900
Our.
And if we're asking people to

555
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,300
commit a piece of their lives
for this and hopefully in a

556
00:24:04,308 --> 00:24:06,800
purpose, based organizations are
there to commit a piece of their

557
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,400
life to this.
If I'm as a leader helping

558
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,500
enable that, why would I go
anywhere else?

559
00:24:11,500 --> 00:24:14,800
It's not a golden handcuffs.
It's an environment where we are

560
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,300
being the best with each other.
Yeah.

561
00:24:16,300 --> 00:24:18,800
And guess what, when things
matter a lot, I'm going to be

562
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:20,400
emotional, it's going to be
harder, I'm going to be more

563
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,100
stressed, you're doing more
stress.

564
00:24:22,100 --> 00:24:25,100
So having ways that we can work
through that and use that stress

565
00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:28,800
to push us forward, rather than
beating up on each other or one

566
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,800
person pull Lean back, always
and the other person like you

567
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:33,400
always works for me.
I wonder what's happening for

568
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,500
you and until that person says
no, I refuse.

569
00:24:35,500 --> 00:24:37,200
I'm not going to accommodate any
more.

570
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,700
I'm now participating in my own
diminishment I'm not going to do

571
00:24:39,700 --> 00:24:41,400
that anymore and that's usually
not fun.

572
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,100
When that happens, I mean, it's
important.

573
00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:45,300
But rather, how do we do that
almost all the time?

574
00:24:45,300 --> 00:24:46,600
Like hey what are we doing
together?

575
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,800
Hey, what are we doing together?
Hmm, I'm going to switch gears

576
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,400
because I've heard that we were
talking to you mentioned just

577
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,300
earlier about Purpose, Driven
organizations, and I would say

578
00:24:57,300 --> 00:25:02,400
that Purpose Driven organization
From the soul of the person who

579
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,900
founded the company, as well as
the leader, the CEO, they know

580
00:25:05,900 --> 00:25:09,000
that they have a higher calling,
they know that they are out

581
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,900
there for, not just profits, but
also for people and the planet

582
00:25:12,900 --> 00:25:16,400
in most cases.
And so from the perspective of

583
00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:19,600
having an ear to the ground or
understanding the heartbeat of

584
00:25:19,608 --> 00:25:22,800
their organization, I would
imagine that that comes a little

585
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:27,400
bit more natural and you
yourself are the founder of in

586
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,400
purpose-driven organization in
that.

587
00:25:29,500 --> 00:25:32,200
You are a certified V Corp.
Can you tell us?

588
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,200
What do you think, sets people
apart or sets organizations

589
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,900
apart that are Purpose, Driven
versus others that might not be

590
00:25:40,900 --> 00:25:44,900
and why you yourself decided
that you wanted to be a

591
00:25:44,908 --> 00:25:47,800
purpose-driven organization.
Hmm, you know, it's really fun.

592
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,200
I'm going to play with just for
a moment here because I had

593
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,700
somebody talking about conscious
leadership and purpose-driven

594
00:25:52,700 --> 00:25:54,700
businesses.
And I said, you know, if you're

595
00:25:54,700 --> 00:25:57,000
trying to invite people in sort
of hinting that they're

596
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,100
unconscious and not Purpose,
Driven is probably Out a way to

597
00:26:00,100 --> 00:26:02,600
help them feel like I think I'm
a conscious leader because I'm

598
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,900
awake and even Enron was a
Purpose Driven organization not

599
00:26:05,900 --> 00:26:07,900
in the way that we're talking
about and they had a very clear

600
00:26:07,900 --> 00:26:10,100
purpose of what they wanted to
do together and it was

601
00:26:10,100 --> 00:26:11,800
incredibly destructive.
That's it.

602
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,400
I know we're talking about
Positive Purpose, we're talking

603
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,800
about things that enhance people
and planet and really thriving

604
00:26:17,900 --> 00:26:20,700
in an economic way.
I think you hinted at the

605
00:26:20,700 --> 00:26:22,500
answer.
When you said this company was

606
00:26:22,500 --> 00:26:24,200
started from the soul of
someone.

607
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,400
I think it's a deep connection
to meaning and I think we're all

608
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,300
wired for purpose.
I think a lot of times.

609
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,300
We get that.
Domestication that says, no,

610
00:26:31,300 --> 00:26:33,600
you're actually here to consume,
that's your purpose or your

611
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,700
here, to do some grow grow.
Grow like a cancer, that's your

612
00:26:36,700 --> 00:26:38,800
purpose.
But ultimately, I think when we

613
00:26:38,900 --> 00:26:41,500
can strip away some that
conditioning, I think everybody

614
00:26:41,500 --> 00:26:43,400
really wants that.
I so the people that are more in

615
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,400
touch with that of like why am I
here?

616
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,700
And what's this sort of change
that I would like to make in the

617
00:26:47,700 --> 00:26:49,200
world versus?
I just need to get through the

618
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,100
days and make it by Weekend.
Those are the folks that I think

619
00:26:52,100 --> 00:26:54,600
have the opportunity to say.
Here's a purpose.

620
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,000
I'm about bigger than me.
Would you like to join?

621
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,200
How would you like to help?
And so, that's a different kind

622
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,800
of Coming together then I need a
job because we do and people

623
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,500
need housing and you know the
economy works you have to have

624
00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:08,300
money so people are going to do
that and yet how can we invite

625
00:27:08,300 --> 00:27:10,100
people into something bigger?
I think those people that would

626
00:27:10,100 --> 00:27:13,200
like to see that for themselves
and for others are the ones that

627
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,200
usually do.
That meant certainly me you know

628
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,700
I definitely it can be more of a
good thing too much of a good

629
00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:20,300
thing so caring for people and
trying to help them if it goes

630
00:27:20,300 --> 00:27:22,500
too far, that's rescuing, I mean
a rescue you I'm going to do

631
00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:24,700
things for you even if you could
do them yourselves, I've had

632
00:27:24,700 --> 00:27:27,300
experience with that, I'm
recovering Rescuers, well family

633
00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:30,300
systems and things and I was
looking For the best Within

634
00:27:30,300 --> 00:27:32,400
Myself and others.
And when I started finding that

635
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,900
giving myself permission to be,
who I was, it was very I was

636
00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:38,100
like, in fact when I got out of
that thing, I said, you know,

637
00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:40,100
I've been doing the same work
inside these very large

638
00:27:40,100 --> 00:27:42,900
organizations like you described
and it did do some really great

639
00:27:42,900 --> 00:27:45,100
things and I think I helped a
lot of people and I was always

640
00:27:45,100 --> 00:27:47,900
limited by the power structure
or if I, you know, it's like

641
00:27:47,900 --> 00:27:50,000
well yeah, he works for us.
He would say that or cheap.

642
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,700
Maybe we don't want to have him
working here anymore.

643
00:27:51,700 --> 00:27:54,100
And that fear what I could feel
that kind of creeping in imeet.

644
00:27:54,100 --> 00:27:56,100
Do I say that?
Did I ask the challenging

645
00:27:56,100 --> 00:27:57,700
question?
Because I think it could be

646
00:27:57,700 --> 00:27:59,300
better for everybody or do.
I stay quiet?

647
00:27:59,500 --> 00:28:02,500
And I decided in my own company
that I could do that, and if it

648
00:28:02,500 --> 00:28:04,700
turned out, we're working
together, and the questions I

649
00:28:04,700 --> 00:28:07,700
was asking where you wanted to
go, then we were just part and

650
00:28:07,700 --> 00:28:10,500
it's okay, I'm not here to
impose anything on you.

651
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,000
We're working together as
partners, we kind of bolt on for

652
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,100
however, long we'd like, and
then we separate, and maybe we

653
00:28:15,108 --> 00:28:16,600
come back together for another
engagement.

654
00:28:16,700 --> 00:28:20,100
So that really informed, that
sort of partnership and bringing

655
00:28:20,100 --> 00:28:22,600
out the best in you.
And me was why I built a company

656
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,500
because I frankly, I didn't see
a lot of companies that did that

657
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,600
because like yeah, that's not
the normal way.

658
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,800
And yet I see it as so.
Powerful and I wouldn't want to

659
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,800
live any other way and so why
would you want to live up to the

660
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,500
rigor of being B?
Corp certified.

661
00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:38,600
I'm curious, that's awesome and
I love it, you know?

662
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,700
And I see these announcements
and they like pray, we got B

663
00:28:41,700 --> 00:28:43,700
Corp certification.
So I'm going to sound like I'm

664
00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:44,800
patting ourselves on the back as
well.

665
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,400
See it's B Corp thing.
That sounds really cool.

666
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,200
I looked in it's like yeah we
should apply.

667
00:28:48,300 --> 00:28:51,100
I think it took us six months
because we were doing all this

668
00:28:51,100 --> 00:28:52,600
stuff already.
It actually pushed me over the

669
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,400
edge to.
This is one thing that did make

670
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,100
a difference, they were like,
yeah, you need to really be

671
00:28:56,100 --> 00:28:57,900
thinking about how you're
helping people medically, and I

672
00:28:57,908 --> 00:28:59,000
was like, we are not giving out
there.

673
00:28:59,500 --> 00:29:02,200
Not providing benefits so people
can be focused on the work and

674
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,300
not on their health, not that
they wouldn't, you know, if it

675
00:29:04,308 --> 00:29:06,100
was ill health, right?
Like they were really worried

676
00:29:06,100 --> 00:29:07,900
about that and I was hurting
them rather than how do we help

677
00:29:07,900 --> 00:29:09,700
them keep healthy.
What benefits do we need to

678
00:29:09,708 --> 00:29:11,100
provide?
Because that's just what we

679
00:29:11,100 --> 00:29:13,300
should be doing.
And so I think we change to a

680
00:29:13,300 --> 00:29:16,700
credit union versus a bank.
We upped the way we did our

681
00:29:16,700 --> 00:29:19,300
medical work, we had to put the
statements about, we're

682
00:29:19,300 --> 00:29:20,400
anti-slavery and things like
that.

683
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,300
And so the rigor I'm hearing
rigor, it wasn't much rigor

684
00:29:23,300 --> 00:29:25,600
because we were doing virtually
all those things anyway because

685
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,000
I believed it was the right
thing to do and so it was

686
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,300
wonderful to have That helped us
take it up a notch and then also

687
00:29:31,300 --> 00:29:33,500
sort of put us in touch with a
community people that were.

688
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,900
We were doing that even if it
was maybe a farther leap.

689
00:29:35,900 --> 00:29:38,100
Then we had to initially
amazing.

690
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,300
Now, you also wrote a book
called Ripple, a field manual

691
00:29:41,300 --> 00:29:43,800
for leadership that works.
Can you tell us what that's

692
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:44,900
about?
Sure.

693
00:29:44,900 --> 00:29:47,000
It's pretty exciting, although
it's kind of amazing, I thought

694
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,200
it would take six months because
I had all these articles and

695
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,300
things, I'd written in blog
posts, only causes bring this

696
00:29:51,300 --> 00:29:54,000
together and it'll just be great
and it took six years.

697
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:59,600
So I got the six, right?
I started writing it because I

698
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,300
saw people applying really cool.
I mean, I've got so many

699
00:30:02,300 --> 00:30:03,600
leadership books.
You wouldn't.

700
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,800
It's just crazy.
You know, like 20 linear feet of

701
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,600
them, probably, maybe more and
they'd apply technique from this

702
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,900
book or this strategy or things
like that.

703
00:30:10,900 --> 00:30:13,500
They weren't in synchronicity,
they were fighting each other

704
00:30:13,500 --> 00:30:15,500
because they have different
philosophies management.

705
00:30:15,900 --> 00:30:18,200
And so I said, I think I'd like
to put something in.

706
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,000
It doesn't have to be the book
but a book where people can see

707
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,800
how, and I described it
actually.

708
00:30:22,900 --> 00:30:25,700
The first part is about the
leader knowing themselves and

709
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,200
how they show up another path.
That's Ripple one Ripple to is.

710
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,800
Is, how am I trusting in
enabling and equipping other

711
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,200
people?
That's Ripple to.

712
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,500
So that's interaction and
ripple, three is the

713
00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:37,700
organization itself.
How do we, you know, get clearer

714
00:30:37,700 --> 00:30:39,600
and where we're going?
And make sure the things work,

715
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,300
right?
And produce things efficiently.

716
00:30:41,300 --> 00:30:43,200
So, that's the book.
And I had all these little

717
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,500
pieces that I had learned from
other people, if you have

718
00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:48,300
developed myself and put them in
the book, and I just wanted to

719
00:30:48,300 --> 00:30:51,000
give people something, that was
had a guy one time.

720
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,700
You told me, he said, you know,
I was reading the book and it

721
00:30:53,700 --> 00:30:55,700
felt like we were sitting across
the kitchen table.

722
00:30:55,700 --> 00:30:58,600
Having a conversation, and
you're asking some questions and

723
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,200
then you offer to The things I
could try out to see what I

724
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,300
could do better and I was like,
that's exactly what I wanted.

725
00:31:04,300 --> 00:31:07,700
I wanted to be a with book
before that I read this post and

726
00:31:07,700 --> 00:31:09,700
I wanted to be something that
people could feel like.

727
00:31:09,700 --> 00:31:11,900
Yeah, I can do that, I can do
that.

728
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,200
And by working those areas where
they might have some opportunity

729
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,900
to be stronger as a leader, they
could actually make the whole

730
00:31:17,900 --> 00:31:19,600
organization better.
So actually in the back of the

731
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,700
book is really fun.
It says yeah, this is nice, but

732
00:31:21,700 --> 00:31:24,300
I need help now and so because
it's organized and all these

733
00:31:24,300 --> 00:31:26,700
pieces and there's little like
there's a principle like look

734
00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:28,600
for diamonds in the dirt, you
know, that's a lead.

735
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,400
I can see.
See, I can see excellence in

736
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,200
somebody, they can't see
themselves because that's normal

737
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:33,600
to that.
If I don't call it out, they

738
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,100
don't know it and we can't use
it.

739
00:31:35,100 --> 00:31:37,400
So, you know, and here's ways to
think about the people and, you

740
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:38,900
know, whatever it was.
So it's a little tiny

741
00:31:38,900 --> 00:31:41,600
five-minute exercised around
this one principal and those are

742
00:31:41,608 --> 00:31:43,400
the kind of things I have in
there, but at the end of the

743
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,200
book it says, hey my people are
not really making the impact.

744
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,400
They want, we're not making the
results and I find a lot of

745
00:31:49,408 --> 00:31:51,200
backtracking.
You might want to look at

746
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,300
diamonds in the dirt for
yourself and your team and then

747
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:54,700
it refers you back to that
section.

748
00:31:54,700 --> 00:31:58,100
So you sort of like a self-help
diagnostic to figure out where

749
00:31:58,100 --> 00:32:00,100
could I be better?
And so Yeah, I think we're

750
00:32:00,100 --> 00:32:02,600
almost out of the initial
Printing and we do like online

751
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,800
stuff, but it's pretty cool to
have people come and say we're

752
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,800
using this for our masters
degree program effective,

753
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,000
Business Leaders.
And that's our curriculum.

754
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:12,500
And we're just going through
that and working all these

755
00:32:12,500 --> 00:32:14,800
exercises ourselves last super
excited.

756
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,600
Yeah, that's always wonderful to
know that it's easy to catch on

757
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,300
its mission accomplished for
you.

758
00:32:20,300 --> 00:32:23,200
As far as conversation across
the kitchen table and it's

759
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,500
something that people can
actually put into practical use.

760
00:32:26,500 --> 00:32:28,000
Well done.
Yeah, thanks.

761
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,700
I did have three of our clients.
Together.

762
00:32:29,700 --> 00:32:32,100
They conspired.
And they called me and said,

763
00:32:32,100 --> 00:32:33,400
okay, this is nice and
everything.

764
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,800
We need a cohort based
leadership program that runs for

765
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,300
like six to nine months and we
want to send all our people and

766
00:32:38,300 --> 00:32:40,100
I'm like well it's a
do-it-yourself book.

767
00:32:40,100 --> 00:32:42,400
You don't you know of course we
do coaching and they said well

768
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,800
how about if we pre-fund it?
How many slots can we buy ahead

769
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,300
of time?
And then you can take that money

770
00:32:46,300 --> 00:32:48,100
work with a curriculum designer.
Make it happen.

771
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,400
That was three years ago right
before endemic.

772
00:32:50,500 --> 00:32:53,200
So we're in our third cohort,
the Ripple leadership program

773
00:32:53,300 --> 00:32:56,000
where we do this with some
coaching and things and mostly

774
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,000
purpose-driven businesses
virtually, all you know, there

775
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,800
be Orbs and small Giants also,
great game of business players,

776
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,100
you know, these folks that are
really trying to build leaders

777
00:33:05,100 --> 00:33:08,200
from the ground up and it's a
blast, that's wonderful.

778
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,000
Oh my gosh.
So then aside from your cohort,

779
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:12,700
how can people get in touch with
you?

780
00:33:12,700 --> 00:33:16,100
How can people learn more about
trebuchet and working with your

781
00:33:16,100 --> 00:33:17,500
organization?
Yes.

782
00:33:17,500 --> 00:33:20,400
Well, trebuchet.
Group.com is probably the best

783
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,200
place.
We've got some really fun videos

784
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,300
of clients and things on that
site.

785
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,100
It has a link to the rip
leadership program.

786
00:33:26,100 --> 00:33:28,100
It has a link to some of our
other things and basically it

787
00:33:28,108 --> 00:33:29,200
says, hey let's have a
conversation.

788
00:33:29,300 --> 00:33:31,800
Action because there's no
one-size-fits-all it's about the

789
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:33,900
conversation of Discovery we can
see, I don't know.

790
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:35,900
What could we do?
What's great look like and how

791
00:33:35,900 --> 00:33:38,000
might we partner, so that would
be really wonderful and there's

792
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,300
lots of tools and things on
their people can just take in

793
00:33:40,300 --> 00:33:42,900
use and try to be better.
I really encourage the B Corp

794
00:33:42,900 --> 00:33:45,700
Community to check it out and
whatever things they'd like or

795
00:33:45,700 --> 00:33:48,400
questions they want to ask me
even have a 20-minute no

796
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,000
obligation whatsoever.
Just ask a question and we'll

797
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,200
just work through whatever we
can do to discover things

798
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:54,800
together and hopefully that
helps people.

799
00:33:54,900 --> 00:33:57,500
That sounds amazing.
Chris Hutchinson, thank you so

800
00:33:57,500 --> 00:33:59,200
much for joining me today on
Road.

801
00:33:59,300 --> 00:34:01,100
Role Models I really appreciate
it.

802
00:34:01,100 --> 00:34:03,800
I'm sort of embarrassed to think
of myself as a role model and I

803
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,800
love that you're highlighting,
people that can help other

804
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:07,200
people make a difference in
their lives.

805
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,400
It's all about being an
inspiration and spreading

806
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,699
inspiration, so that people can
be better at everything that

807
00:34:12,699 --> 00:34:14,900
they do.
Thank you again, thank you so

808
00:34:14,900 --> 00:34:15,400
much.