Episode 20: Avigail Gimpel - Raising Amazing Kids With ADHD

0:07 Hello, beautiful humans. Welcome to role models. Juicy conversations with beautiful humans. I'm Jennifer Norman founder of the human Beauty movement and your host. If you find inspiration here, go ahead and click that. Subscribe button, we appreciate it today. We're going to talk about ADHD neuro, Divergence is so common among families, and sometimes the condition can feel. Overwhelming to yourself and your loved ones. My guest today is Abigail gimple. Abigail has immersed herself in studying and developing treatment options for ADHD for her own six, kids and others. She developed a hand on parent training program and teachers training program, that can help she works in private practice, training, parents to become a DHT coaches to their children, and spouses to learn.

0:58 A new love language, to communicate. A Kate with their partners with respect her book hyper. Healing is available now, welcome ever Gail, thank you so much. So nice to be with you today. I'm delighted to have you in this is such an important topic. So tell us how did you come to be interested in neurodivergent diagnosis and particular ADHD? I think that it's a little ironic and funny that I landed up being a school teacher because I was allergic to school as a little kid, It. And a lot of kids would probably agree with you. I was that kid, that, you know, the teacher handed out, you know, whatever, it's some kind of worksheet and I would look at it and kind of stuff it deep into my desk.

1:44 Never to be found again until the end of the school year when they dumped my desk over in an avalanche came out. I was the one that like, you know, if someone needed to do something troubling than that would be me. Hide under the teacher's desk, put something on a teacher's chair. So I still can't explain fully what brought me back to the classroom, when I do come back to the classroom as a 20 year old teacher. My first year, I was teaching in an inclusion setting English as a second language and the kids in the classroom, all came from the former Soviet Bloc. So there were five different languages in the classroom and it was a first grade. But they were from six to nine year old kids because they put in all the kids would never been to school before.

2:27 So it was a few talk about diversity. T, that classroom was diversity. They should have just taken a picture of my classroom, but remember the first day I walked in, and this gorgeous little boy, big brown eyes. He locks eyes with me, and he kind of, says silently and charge here, and he was right. I had to just like my teachers. I handed out these beautiful worksheets and he jumps out of his seat, crumples up, all the worksheets that Given out and dumps them out the window. And I was in a total panic and I'm like, oh my God, how am I going to survive the year?

3:10 So I didn't really survive the year. It was like a collision course the entire year, I'm a daught every mistake in the book and I'm kind of seeing him sending him out of the classroom setting into the principal's office. He didn't learn a thing. I cried a lot and what I realized was that I had absolutely no tools but I love this. This kid, he had spunk and energy and he was awesome. If I could only get him to learn, then we would do great in the classroom. I moved on to another school and I saw these kids are everywhere and I like them everywhere during recess. They come alive. Love to tell stories. They're curious about everything but I couldn't get them to learn. So I finally did create a program for these ADHD kids and they started to flourish.

3:59 I put them at this. Center of my classroom and it was fantastic. That was the year. I met my husband and my husband has more energy than anybody, I know, I look back and I think to myself, wow, he was very much like my students. That's probably what I liked him, right away. And ADHD is quite genetic. So as my children were being born and I'm really blessed to have six of them. Wonderful kids, every last one of them, most of them one after the next was being diagnosed with ADHD. So where I had worked with ADHD in the classroom because really these kids invited me into their world, my children to do the same. So I had to take that same Deep dive and figure out how to help my own children. And that's the beginning of the story. Yeah.

4:45 Talk about a calling, right? So when you were first, a young teacher, was there a diagnosis or was this, just something that you suspected in terms of their behavior? This is actually, it wasn't the beginning of But it was still fairly rare, it wasn't 10 kids in every classroom was more like one or two and we were still doing the short-acting Ritalin. So the kids had to go to the school nurse and the day to get their second dose. So that's where we were holding but as a teacher I had a lot of leeway in terms of deciding what would be with my students? Meaning there was no pressure on me to suggest diagnosis or pressure to medicate.

5:28 It was too new for That, which I feel very lucky because I actually suggested to parents maybe only to do the morning dose and leave out the second dose so that I could see the children in the afternoon and really see where their challenges were to be able to find the root causes and help them progress because it was much less important to me to have a quiet classroom. I have five brothers. Quiet is just not important to me. I don't even hear a noise. So therefore that was not my goal. And when I was able to Meet the children as they were, I was really able to set them up for success and they did great in the classroom. Oh, that's wonderful. Yeah.

6:09 I think that there's a lot of controversy certainly with ADHD and some people believing that it is a diagnosis and some people believing that it might be an excuse for Behavior which I know is not the case, but there is the sentiment. And so sometimes I wonder if in the Room does a teacher, have a conference or a discussion with the parents that yes there is a diagnosis or it's just something that you suspect and it's not something that because of HIPAA or I know in other countries you're in Israel right now. By the way, wanted to mention that's everybody. Not every country is the same with its rules and regulations and its laws about health and privacy. I find it interesting that there is openness and it seems like there has been an evolution of an understanding that. Yeah, this is real.

7:00 Yeah, the symptoms are most definitely real and I don't think I've ever accused a child of being lazy or wanting to blow up the classroom just because that's not the situation. And I firmly believe that a child will do well, if a child can do well and therefore, we have to create the environment where the child can flourish and these children are struggling. That's for sure. I know that in America, as well as in Israel and most Western countries, we are Extremely diagnosis happy and in some cases I've been in classrooms where almost 50% of the students had some kind of diagnosis. So and a diagnosis in my opinion is much less meaningful than the process of trying to understand why the child is struggling.

7:48 It seems to be very shallow and doesn't give us information about the child and about what we can do to help that child. Yeah, yeah. So, let's go back because you mentioned this one example of this wonderful boy, who you fell in love with, and he was very strong-willed. And he had a dynamic personality and a lot of energy. If there's a parent out there that's curious or wondering if their child may be neurodivergent, what are some of the other signs and symptoms that are noticeable? So we see two different types of kids. One, child would be much more extra energetic and is all over the place all the time. Um my oldest daughter was like that. I was never a when she was young, I couldn't put the chairs around the dining room table because the minute the chair was there.

8:37 She climb up on the chair, climb up on the table and be hanging onto the light fixture before I could turn around. So we stack the chairs in the corner until it was mealtime. And then we allow chairs. So that like a very, very energetic. Curious really notices, tons of details in their environment, they commit, social suicide quite Often in terms of being over dominant and not quite understanding social cues. So they tend to struggle with making friends. They also have trouble getting started with things or stopping to do something that they're really enjoying. They will break into conversation and have less of an awareness of what's happening in. You know, parents having conversation with a friend and they'll just their need is right now and they want to To have their needs immediately.

9:31 We see a lot of instant gratification personality, which is wanting everything here, and now and fun and interesting and dangerous kind of living on the edge personality, on the other side you'll have a child who's also wanting things interesting here and now but it manifests more of like a dreamer, the kids sitting in the classroom, but looking out the window or doing their nails or really, just not very involved. What's happening in general. We're going to see these kids are quite intelligent, but we also see that a lot of them have learned civilities and sensory issues. And also the more dreamy child is what I like to call her, because it's usually more of the girls that are that way in my house is equal opportunity, everybody's hyper, but we're going to see with that child. Is that she also is struggling socially, she'll kind of dance around the Edge of a gathering of people and not quite know how to make her way in or so ask, tactless questions. Make strange comments and not exactly know where to go with it.

10:41 So that's a basic overview. There's obviously a lot more to that and people could really read the checklist in the DSM and get more information on that that this is more of a general description for them. Yeah, thank you for that. It was extremely helpful to understand. Now you've been all over the world. All done, you have been teaching and you've been involved with ADHD children and even adults for quite some time. Are you seeing this as a trend of increasing magnitude of finding ADHD as I want to want to say a diagnosis? Because certainly once you are aware of something that I think that the doctors and the medical field gets involved, do you think that this is something that is just becoming more prevalent over time? Oh yeah, well I'll just give background. I lived in Moscow for a couple of years and I started my career teaching in New York and now I'm continuing my teaching and right outside of Jerusalem.

11:38 So I have spent three different languages, three completely different cultures and three different school systems and what I'm seeing. As from the time, I started teaching 27 years ago to today the uptick An ADHD diagnosis and all diagnosis for children is astounding, astonishing and frightening in my opinion. And we seem to be at epidemic levels of children, not flourishing, and not doing well. And that's something I said at the beginning, that there's a major genetic component to ADHD, but if we think about it, we can't have a genetic epidemic that's impossible because in something's genetic. Let's say Down syndrome.

12:24 That's something. That stays steady generation to generation. So therefore there is a part of it. That's genetic. The rest of it is environmental, which is why these children deserve our patients, our curiosity, in our respect, to really find out what genetic factors are making them. Not flourish, exactly. And being in the school system, you've probably seen the evolution of the way that instruction used to have. And I think to myself about the instruction when I was young it would never fly today. It would never suit anybody's abilities or helped to create success in a child's learning the way that you'd have to just sit for hours and hours and hours at a time at a desk and listen to a very boring lecture, it's just not the way that it would have ever worked. So what are some of the things that the school systems that you've been involved in are doing to evolve and to grow and to be able to serve ADHD children. So I do see that the schools eyes are looking at the children and trying to accommodate them and giving them more time to take tests and giving them one-on-one time, which is great. There are two trends that I'm concerned about which were not around when I started teaching.

13:40 The one is that schools are shifting, especially American schools are shifting away from recess time and moving it more to Jim time. We've become very goal-oriented and we forgotten that A break is as necessary as learning and children need that time to clear out and actually longer. Recesses would do them better and gym class is another class. It's instruction and therefore, that doesn't clear the children's Minds. That doesn't allow them to receive more, so that is extremely problematic. And the other thing that I'm finding to be not, a blessing is putting screens in the children's faces children.

14:24 Need to be interacting with people and they have way too many screens to begin with. And if this is a child who is instant gratification that child is anyway, going to gravitate towards screens way too often so they need a break but we as teachers also need to be more Dynamic and interesting and we have lost the art of discipline because we rely way too heavily on medications. So, we assume that the child is misbehaving Parent has to go fix it and fix it means get your child to be quiet when I started teaching. It was my problem when a child was misbehaving.

15:05 There was no one coming to save me from the outside, I to figure out why the child was misbehaving, what was going on for that child? And then work with the child and invite the parents to be part of the process now, it's like you take the child, you Chuck it at the parents and say fix the kid and then return it. To the classroom and therefore teachers don't even realize that you're supposed to discipline. So I think children need discipline, loving, respectful discipline. So are we going in the right direction? Awareness is great. I love awareness, but I wish we would have kind of taken some of that Curiosity with us and keep those screens out of the classroom. I see more recess is always better. Do we think that screens are contributing to The ADHD. Oh, I'm absolutely convinced of that and it's not just me. I've spent a long time really pouring through a lot of studies and it does turn out that screens are contributing to the ADHD.

16:11 So it's twofold. Because on the one side kids with instant gratification personalities will gravitate more two screens because there have more of an addictive personality in general, but the kids Who did not have that kind of personality and perhaps were very good students in grade school, then get that first phone put into their hands and the trend we're seeing as at those kids land up developing and exhibiting all of the ADHD symptoms and that's frightening as well as they're getting less sleep now because of their screens and I think that there's a lot more stress on the child video game. Create a tremendous amount of stress and a cortisol Rush that cause children to not be able to become and thought through the get much more aggressive.

17:06 So, yeah, the screens are disaster. The lack of sleep is a very big problem and this is something that we actually still can do something about was parental controls on the screens and way more awareness. Hmm. And luckily, there are bigger companies that because Has of be awareness of the mental health problem, and The Addictive nature of social media of game is like, finally starting to add in these things, but it had to come to lawsuits. I think, and yeah, these things to force them to do so because of course, they want people to spend more time and absorb their content as much as possible. That's how they make their money. But, yeah, it really has been doing a disservice if we think about the long-term trends on mental health, and mental, wellness, and emotional Wellness.

17:54 Yeah, Our kids really deserve a little bit more of a protective environment to grow up. And there's an interesting Trend where we've kind of removed kids from the outdoors. Because we've been convinced of the outdoors or dangerous, they could run into a wild animal, they could God forbid, you know, get hurt or drown in a creek and so we're keeping them indoors. But what we're doing is we're handing them a device which is potentially way more dangerous. Dangerous, the kind of of information that they're receiving from that device is extremely aggressive on their brains and whereas nature, we have to watch children wherever we put them.

18:37 But when we put one danger of the unknown of nature against the danger of, keeping them indoors with a lot of junk food and a screen, I choose a really good hike and letting kids make a campfire with some supervision. Hmm. Yeah, that's actually a really good alternative versus what we have today and hopefully we're starting to get a trend Back To Nature and back to, you know, finding the beauty of being in the Great Outdoors for kids. Now, we're touching on something so important because, you know, as new parents, it's hard enough. Raising children to be fully functional human beings as they grow up and really great adults that are contributing to society. It's so hard and then you throw on top of it that there's no Divergence e and 8.

19:24 ADHD is one of them, of course, being on the Spectrum or OCT, or any of these wonderful diagnoses that are coming up these days, that pose challenges to parents that otherwise don't know what to do. As you had mentioned, the school is like fix your child, your the behavior issues you need to get them to see a doctor, maybe Medicaid or or what have you and it's overwhelming for the parent. You've had the wonderful good fortune and good ability to be able to coach parents and Coach teacher's on this front, what are some of the things that they can do? That can be in there? Look at that might be able to help with pleasure. I'd love to share that because I've been at this for so long and I feel very grateful for the information that came my way that I was able to use.

20:07 And I feel like a conduit that just passes through me to anyone who's listening, who can use the help. First of all, it's really, really important to take a big deep breath and know that your child is healthy and your child is struggling. So your child Does need the help, but your child's healthy and your child's is just the way he or she is supposed to be. That's really number one. Once you could really convince yourself of that. When my clients leave my office, they're saying a mantra to myself. My child is healthy. My child is wonderful. Mother will say, my child is just mean and I see one second one second, your child would do.

20:48 Well, if the environment permitted. So what's happening to trigger your child and we Their child to be calm. We're not going to settle for our child bullying others, but we have to say this is a healthy child being faced with a choice that he or she does not have the tools to deal with why? And how can we help? So, besides for that I think the next step would be for us parents to really look at ourselves and wonder what's going on in our voices. You said it's so difficult being a parent and the reason it's even more complex Has to be a parent and I love being a mom. It has everything in it, the joy, the Heartbreak, and everything in between, but we all come to Parenting immature. And with a huge suitcase of all our old voices, and experiences, and everything that we've brought along with us and often when we respond to our children, it's coming from our own insecurities and our own self-doubt and our own Dismay this is his child ever going to be normal. So, therefore, that next step is to clear our own voices. And I really take parents through a journey on this because we have to be good to ourselves in order to be good to our children.

22:09 After that, we can work on. I have a three-pronged plan for parents of a child with an instant gratification personality ADHD. Now for talking about ADHD being caused by screen addiction, lack of sleep, Stress. Trauma abuse. Those have a bit of a different plan and that I talk about later on, but if we're talking about that genetic instant gratification personality, then we're working with the child to create habits. Our child needs a lot of our attention and if you are a parent of a kid with ADHD, you know that this child sucks up all of your energy and usually the child sucks it up in a negative way. Because it's easier for us to I yelled and complement. So since that child needs our attention, we really have to turn our energy around and be able to give that child positive attention, instead of - and tell the child, exactly what they did in order to get that positive attention essentially. And if you do just this, you'll see remarkable results because you're going to catch the child doing the right thing and then use it.

23:19 Yeah, that's the thing. That's example because we're always saying to the kid you're doing this wrong in this, This one, they're not learning anything, they don't hear you, but when you catch them doing the right thing, and you give a generous enthusiastic loving compliment without adding the negative, then you can turn around the environment in your house because your child will, then start choosing to get your positive attention after that. The next two steps are going to be working on creating habits because these kids are allergic to habits. They are instant gratification engines so they'll do. Do something as long as it's interesting and fun for them. But the second it loses that novelty the move on, and you can't create habits.

24:03 If you're always doing something new, which is, why waking this child up in the morning, always feels like it's like a brand-new experience and I've been waking what for 5000 mornings, but it's brand-new because what's getting me out of bed today, it's more fun for him to stay in bed than to get out of bed because it's another school day. So therefore, getting a New behaviors is something very important and we do that with a skills chart that we work on for a full month and as well as the final prong of this is really healthy respectful discipline we have to get that right because this child will though he's really rejecting all these boundaries, he needs it more than everybody else. So with that three-prong plan we make beautiful progress. Wow.

24:53 That is so helpful. Well thank you so much. I'm curious because I'm sure a lot of parents who might be listening might be intrigued like what does healthy and constructive discipline really look like. You know some people might be doing it wrong I might just be punishing him and just like pulling away the screen and not doing it quote unquote, right? Like what wood is there something that could be modeled after a some example that you might be able to provide? So the unhealthy is what most of us do. And we do it naturally which is threatening yelling Hitting a child or just ignoring. Now, all of those are not good because when a child does something wrong and we ignore it, what we're saying is, I don't trust you to be better. I don't think that you can improve and therefore I'm just letting you go with it because this is all you're capable of. So we're abandoning our child and therefore, we never going to ignore unwanted Behavior.

25:52 But what we are going to do isn't that I I call this the cookie punishment, and what it is, is that when someone does something wrong, I'll give an example. Let's say you say, do you have a sister? I do? Yes. Okay, so let's say you say something nasty to your sister and I'm assuming you and do that. But let's say that happens. And you you feel bad about it afterwards and you want to do something for her. So the normal thing to do would be to call her and say, you're sorry, go over and give her a hug but Very often, we want to do something more so maybe you want to make her some cookies and when you make those cookies, who are the cookies for there for you, they're not for her. She probably doesn't even want the cookies. So the point is, when we do something, what we're doing is, we're making ourselves feel better and we're bringing more light to the relationship and to the environment. So what I say to parents is and I do this myself all the time is that when a child does something wrong, first of all, we have to tell the child beforehand.

26:54 What we Affected them, it can't be guesswork. The child has to know what the rules of our home. Our we're not posting the rules but we're expressing it very, very clearly. Therefore we're not going to warn 10 times. We're going to say it once we might even say it twice but then once we know the child's heard, we're going to move right into the punishment because again it's a hug for our child. It's a statement of I believe in you. I know you can do better. You're a great kid. So the kid does something wrong. Let's say smack a sibling. Now, you say Sammy in our home, you're not allowed a snack as the blink. That is not respectful and then you say not want you to stop. And I'm going to ask you to do something and you can explain the punishment to your child before as well.

27:39 And therefore, it's not going to be threatening and because we don't need threatening and we don't need pain, we need a message of you can do better. So we're going to ask the child to straighten something up or clean a couple of dishes or organize a messy drawer. We all have messy drawers, this bothers parents at the beginning because they say one second. My child should love to do chores. And I'm like, okay, I've known kids for a long time, and I know myself for a long time, nobody likes chores. So, we're using chores as a neutral to slightly leaning - and what's amazing about it, is that a child is way smarter than we are because a child understands that when they do something good, then they're bringing that light to our home and we're happy. So when they do a chore, They're doing the exact same thing. So both of them bring a make our environment better. And then what is really great is that once we're finished with the punishment and Sammy has gone ahead and organize that drawer.

28:41 We say thank you, you really great at organizing and we're done so that compliments at the end with a child remembers that he listened and he did what his parents asked him to do. So that's the cookie punishment. And the parents are listening and saying, yeah, but my kid is not going to listen and try. I can't get my kid to like, put his underwear in the laundry basket. So, you know, I'm going to get him to listen to me when I say now. Go clean, three dishes, no way. So I said no problem. You offer that as the punishment, the child doesn't take it and some people call it a correction, you offer that as the correction and then if the child doesn't take it and that's the Child's choice. This is respect child's allowed to have a choice and that case we're saying no problem.

29:31 And we're going to take away either an item or a privilege for a short amount of time at treat that you're giving out or the toy that they're playing with right now, something for a short amount of time it should. Again, it should not be something that causes a lot of pain and suffering but rather a quick message, you can't do this. So give a quick example, we were on our way to the beach as Family when my kids were a little bit younger and one of my daughter's just kind of clocked her brother over the head because he was sitting at the window and that's was her seat. So I said to her, we don't hit, that's not respectful. We're not allowed to do that in our family.

30:11 When we get to the beach you're going to sit next to me on the sand for 15 minutes and then you go into the water and it's very important if you're going to choose a punishment that you not choose something you can't. Handle. If the punishment is too big, you're essentially going to be begging your children to say they're sorry. So you could cancel the punishment but when you cancel the punishment you just lost the teeth of it and no lesson has been learned. So make the punishments in a way that they're small enough for you to handle big enough for your child to feel. It's a sweet spot and it's a good system and it's worked very well. Parents are skeptical, but then when they go home and try it they always come back to me as I am.

30:54 Worked. I can't believe it and works in the classroom as well, by the way, for the teachers. Anything I was gonna say I'm sure that there are parents that are like my kids, just Defiance, he won't even do what I tell him. So, you know, and then it's not like they can or want to physically force them to do certain things. And so what do you do? And when it gets to that particular Junction, when I need to add one more thing, which is really important, okay? We cannot punish our children and let's our home environment is positive because of this is a child who needs our feedback and our feedback is mainly - she or he is always going to trigger us for negative responses. So we have to have established an environment where our home is positive.

31:40 Once our home is positive, then here and there, you will need to have a punishment because the child will have trouble choosing. But if the home is positive and we're giving compliments and proud of our child, then the child will mainly very Easily be able to choose a positive behavior and every once in a while will slip up. So first you are working on the compliments, don't touch the punishment and so you got that down, pat that is brilliant advice because I can definitely see situations where they haven't yet built up to a positive environment. And then it becomes extraordinarily difficult for anybody to feel strong enough to be able to, uphold anything positive. If and nothing has been Modeled to show them positivity. Exactly.

32:28 Exactly. Yeah. Wow. So Abigail you've also written a book called hyper healing. Can you tell us about that? Yeah, so that was a long journey. I actually finished writing hyper healing during the first covid lockdown, which was kind of insane because I was locked in my house with six children and my husband as so. It's like a constant party around here. I don't wake up. Two hours before my kids just to get some writing done but the book itself, it's a real labor of love because it took me a very long time to put it together. And what I really wanted to pass forward as a gift to all parents, teachers therapists and anyone else who's touched by ADHD, is that the child's healthy and that we need to take a journey of curiosity and try to figure out what's going on for each individual child and Therefore the book presents, all the different causes of ADHD symptoms and offers a very easy to follow Hands-On program for each of these symptoms. So, I have what we talked about today, the complements the punishment, the skills development, this screen addiction the asleep program, a 30 day challenge to clean up a child's gut.

33:48 If the symptoms that he's experiencing come from a gut dysbiosis, which is Very common and I hope parents see the symptoms and see the signs that direct them toward understanding what's going on and since I know that this is very genetic, I wrote the book so that a parent who has ADHD themselves, can also read the book easily. I have a cheat sheet at the end of every chapter and action plan at the end of every chapter and my biggest dream is that parents actually read it in a group that you Create a group together and you support each other because we really can't do anything. This Monumental and significant in a vacuum, we need our friends and we need our neighbors to be working on this together. Setting goals together, congratulating each other crying on each other's shoulders when it doesn't work, but the book is set up to be used exactly.

34:47 That way as a group support information, guide. Oh my goodness, I Already know several families that could really benefit from this book. I'm going to look it up right after this, that's amazing. Well Abigail I also know that you're really passionate about empowering women, listening to our inner voice. What have you learned from your experience about fortifying? Your own self-confidence confidence in women is hard to come by and I teach some college and I was asking a question to my students and I said, what causes ADHD and it's teacher. So we it's more of a female Fields, I have way more women in the classroom.

35:28 Although men are more than welcome and really contribute a lot to the classroom and to the school environments, we'd love to see more of them. But so the women were raising their hands and blaming mothers, and it's the mother's smoking, and it's the mother's discipline, and I'm like, stop it. Stop it. We are amazing. We brought life into this world. We're raising these kids. We're doing everything, right? Juggling work and social, and children, and food and home and we're amazing. But I think that the first step for me was being able to just stop and reflect on what a chore. I have what I have in my life and seeing that I'm doing. All right, I'm pulling it off.

36:14 But in addition, what helped me a lot was knowing that I didn't have to be perfect and that only came along a little bit later, turning 40 helped by the way. Also, I'll have, you know, No, turning 40. For me was helpful because I felt like I had arrived, like had the knowledge. I was an adult and had all these life experiences, so if we can go through life women, please, if we can go through life stopping to think, we have to be perfect all the time. If to be super Mama, we have to look gorgeous all the time and it's together and dinner on the table and making six figures and all that. And we say today, Is a new day.

36:56 How am I do better today than I did yesterday? Or if I don't do better, how am I going to learn for it today so that I can do better tomorrow? That to me is the way we build our confidence. Yeah, yeah. And it's so wonderful to be able to have a support group as you've developed with your teachers. And, you know, just really help to build each other up because, of course it's supposed to come from within, but we all need help. Sometimes, let's face it. We all need to have those Reflections. Those Hers to shine and sometimes remind us of how awesome that we are. It does definitely help. Yeah. Yeah. And it's nice to also, I keep going back to this. We need a community. The really the epidemic of our times is that loneliness, and when we're raising our kids in a vacuum, it's very hard because our kids are behaving in a certain way and we think, oh my God.

37:48 Why is my child behaving, this way? What's wrong with him? Or what's wrong with me? And then, when you stick your nose outside of your tiny environment, do you speak to another parent? Oh, it happens in your house, too. Okay. And that's why I love running groups for parents because you're sitting in a room full of amazing dedicated parents who are doing their best and they look great and they're put together and all of them are struggling with kids that are having a really hard time. But when they look at each other, And they say oh you too. All right, I'm not alone and I'm not messing up.

38:31 We just have to do better. Exactly. Oh my goodness. Well, thank you so much. Abigail for all of this information that you provided, I'm going to put all of your information in the show notes so that people can find you and also buy your book, hyper healing and your second book is coming out soon and I wish you the very best of days. Thank you so much for being on This is wonderful. Thank you, appreciate it.