Episode 34: Joshua Rodriguez - Let's Talk About Sex, Kink, and The Healthy Way to BDSM

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Hello, beautiful humans.
Welcome to another episode of

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Role Models.
Do you see conversations with

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beautiful humans?
I'm Jennifer.

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Norman founder of the human
Beauty movement and your host,

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this podcast thrives on your
support.

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head on over to Apple podcast to

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anchor dot f m-- page.
Okay, people so we Are going for

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it.
On today's episode, we are going

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to get kinky here on role
models.

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We are all about radical
inclusivity and radical

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self-acceptance.
So that means dispelling, the

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idea of Shame And discussing
topics that may make us feel a

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bit uncomfortable, so I invite
you to step outside your comfort

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zone with me today.
My guest is Joshua Rodriguez,

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Joshua.
Known as Master Joshua in the

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BDSM leather.
Community is the facilitator

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educator.
That promoter host and

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professional Dom in one-on-one
sessions, Joshua guides, his

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clients towards self-acceptance
empowering them to gain control

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of and become active.
Participants in their own lives.

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Drawing upon his unique
hard-earned.

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Transformational experiences.
He has developed personalized,

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methods of nontraditional sexual
behavior, counseling, geared,

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particularly towards catalyzing
self-actualization over the past

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12 years, he has helped many
People rid themselves of Shame

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so they can Embrace their
identities live richer and more

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fulfilling lives.
Welcome Joshua.

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Hello Jennifer.
Thank you so much for having me

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on your show.
I'm really excited to share this

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time with you.
I am so excited to dive in and

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where to begin.
Now you started practicing BDSM

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around 20 years ago.
Long before 50 Shades of Grey

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though.
Can you set the stage for our

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listeners?
And first Define, you know how

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you got into it?
And let us know like what in the

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world to BDSM is anyway.
Absolutely.

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So let us start with the acronym
Medias.

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All right.
There's a few different ways to

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approach it the way I like to
explain it.

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Best is how you break it down to
three sections, where you have

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to be in the Deep, which is
bondage and discipline.

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You have the dles, which is
dominance and submission.

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And then you have the S and the
M which is sadism and masochism,

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right?
To the bondage, is around the

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restriction.
And the discipline is around

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discipline, right dominance, and
submission is about power

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exchange, sadism, and masochism
is about sensation, right?

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So you can almost It's a boner
ability.

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Power exchange sensation.
It's a very thing.

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I've never heard it explained
that way.

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Yeah, because you have to look
at the differences in

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relationships, right?
And granted having been doing

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this for as long as I have, I've
been doing it professionally for

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over a decade in my own Journey.
When you think about sensation

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experiences, I go back to my
child's right before sexual

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identity.
Was at the Forefront we were

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experiencing Sensations, right?
Playing doctor playing cops and

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robbers playing Damsel in
Distress.

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These were Different scenarios
that would be raped, experience,

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Sensations, and emotions freely,
and playful, right?

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As we progress.
And we get older politics

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religion, and Community culture,
they all tell us frame us or

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shape Us in the do not write.
So, as we get older, we kind of

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get boxed out of these extra
Curiosities that we have these

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desires that we have because
we're ashamed out of, right?

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So my journey into BDSM came
from sex addiction, right?

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The desire to find out more
right before I realized it was

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sex addiction itself.
It was drive to have more.

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Sensation and experience, and in
that process as well as

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counseling around section in
that process, I learned the

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power of the role that I play in
the relationships that I'm in,

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right?
And it took me until my mid-20s

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to realize that what we're
putting into the time spent is

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our identity, is our experience.
And for a lot of us, we don't

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realize that we're not in the
driver's seat for a long time

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driver seat.
Meaning we are experiencing

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things happen to us.
We're not really guiding or

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directing the things that are
happening with us, right?

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So it was a turning point where
I realized that it's not the

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physicality but it's the
connection with the folks that

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I'm eating, right?
And when I say holding space

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essentially, that means giving
someone your undivided attention

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because the holding space gets
thrown around a lot.

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What does that mean?
It means giving someone your

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undivided attention to be seen
and heard and to feel respect,

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right?
And when I first experienced

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that you could feel the shift of
trust and respect, like some

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would see that as power.
Others would see that as

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connection, I saw it as
connection and there is a power.

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I meant to trust and respect but
that has to be that sacred, that

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level of vulnerability is safe.
And I learned that through the

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development of the earlier years
of my journey through via SMS.

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I am important because I get to
hold space for people who trust

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me and I don't violate your
trust as a human being.

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I try to always do what's right?
As a human being, sometimes I

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felt right?
But the big picture of this

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whole journey and lifestyle, is
how do we make?

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Not only the best choices for
us, but the best choices in

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Integrity, right?
How do we aim for doing?

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What's right?
And it's a building block is a

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building process.
It wasn't something that fell

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into my lap on day one.
It was through trial and error.

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It was still making mistakes.
He was trying to use ethics to

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navigate morality and it isn't.
So he's right.

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It's simple.
Always do.

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What's right?
And don't lie tell the truth,

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but it's not easy, right?
Because we have we've been

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conditioned into shame and fear
doubt that sometimes the easier

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route isn't 100% Integrity.
Sometimes it's a white lie or

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sometimes it's for Mission and
not necessarily a direct Miss

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truth, but ultimately it all.
Comes full circle and we end up

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paying for it.
I learned that through

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reflecting on my relationships
right, previous to my investment

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and commitment to be DSM as a
lifestyle.

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And by that, what I mean, is
BDSM is a lifestyle.

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There's an approach,
transparency, open and honest

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Communication open mindedness
respect and ultimately truth,

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but it's like, sometimes you
have to touch the iron and

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sometimes you jump out of The
Frying Pan Into the Fire.

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And sometimes, all you need to
do is touch the edge of the

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frying pan to know.
Okay, that's hot enough.

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I don't need to jump up, but
it's all a process.

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Strained.
It's just like, finding the

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right partner is a process and
you don't jump into the

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lifestyle and expected to be
rainbows and sunshine for

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leather and changing this case,
right?

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It's a lot of power, there is a
lot of drama.

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Wow, so let me get this
straight.

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You were at a younger age,
getting involved in addicted to

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the sensation and then only
through your own trial and error

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experience.
You recognize gosh, something is

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not necessarily working, but I
like this lifestyle on a lean

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into it.
And so, in going through

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Therapy.
And going through that

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reflection, you are able to find
a better balance for the way

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that it can be done in a
prolonged lifestyle, which

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worked for you.
And for whomever, you're

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engaging with, is that right?
100% 100%.

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I got it.
Okay.

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And a lot of people would not
necessarily it.

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It love in the form of VSM.
Some do a lot of people think

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that they're completely separate
is that a misconception?

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Huge misconception.
So, a lot of times Saxon, BDSM

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are intertwined for perspective,
right?

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And I can understand that,
because that's what Society puts

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out there, that's what media
puts out there.

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That's what the internet has all
over, but just like anything

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else.
There's a process to getting to

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that for most people and the
process is if I'm going to give

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you the freedom to experience
and play with my body, you have

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to invest into getting to know
me, right?

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Because I will give you the keys
to my car.

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Why would I give you the keys to
my body?

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Now that's a perspective because
sometimes inert like myself, my

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body wasn't seen as value.
It was seen as a way to

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experience, right.
There wasn't a threshold of who

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can experience me, who cannot he
was just experience.

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And when I realized the
importance of investment in

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connection, at the very least,
being able to sit down, and tell

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me your name, tell me about
yourself before we move into

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these intimate parts that you're
going to be vulnerable.

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And there's repercussions from
his vulnerability.

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If it's a positive experience,
it grows if it's an Arabic -

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experience, it tends to make
people retract in isolation.

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So, so, there's also a
responsibility in understanding

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the role that we play in.
The people who made this

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lifestyle through the processes
of connection negotiation

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experiences.
It's shown me, the importance of

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acknowledging, the roles that we
play in each other's lives

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because you can have the
fly-by-nights when you can and

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there's nothing wrong with the
right y'all, we all experience

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what we want when we want no
judgment, right?

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At a certain point, I started to
feel empty And what could I do

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to fix that?
And it took me a while to

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realize that it wasn't anything
out.

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It was everything internal and
my process and what it was like

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willing to settle for and what
was I not willing to settle?

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Where once I saw what trust and
respect provided in regards to

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opportunity and relationship?
Why would I go back?

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Why would I go back to the
possibility of not being seen

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and heard?
Why would I go back to the

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possibility of being
objectified?

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Yeah, I can take my time and
invest it into people and

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sometimes if it succeeds,
sometimes it felt.

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But I take my time this long
enough.

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Of to get a sign from my guts,
right?

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Because gut instinct is very
powerful.

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We just put blinders on because
sometimes what the gut instinct

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is telling us is contrary to
popular opinion or the short

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answer to the long problem,
right?

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So being able to find intuition
and embrace it, this is all part

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of that process of being able to
invest into relationships that

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are meaningful in the ways that
I need.

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Now, what do you think is the
main reason why people are drawn

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to BDSM in the first place?
So I'm going to go back until

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The movie 50 Shades came out so
that was very pivotal moment for

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the BDSM culture.
More American Society for the

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world society, right?
What Fifty Shades did was make

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it okay to talk about it because
I'm a big believer that we all

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have some everyone has I believe
if I have five minutes anyone I

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can get it out because it's like
what we're looking for are

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associations or not looking for
specific actions button.

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Head spaces of vulnerability and
Powers.

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So 50 shades, open the door and
allowed it to become

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conversation.
Allowed it to become.

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Decibel and acceptable to a
degree.

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The internet deeply affected the
community to, because what ends

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up happening is we have a lot of
Google experts, think or

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Internet experts.
And there's a difference between

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learning how to swim by reading
a book and learning how to

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screen by jumping in the water.
Yeah, right.

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And a lot of people have the
great knowledge about swimming

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on out of a book, right?
But when you throw them into the

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water you can see the hesitancy,
you can see the nervousness and

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I'm thankful for the exposure
that Fifty Shades gave the

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lifestyle, because it allowed us
to start.

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Normalizing.
The conversation.

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Now people come into it because
we've all done things, when we

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are younger out of curiosity.
We close ourselves off because

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of Shame Society, culture,
religion politics.

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There's a number of things,
right?

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But the closet of Desire starts
to fill up and starts to push

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against the doors.
And this what I believe from

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midlife crisis is when you
realize, you get to a point of

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life that you're not who you
thought you were, and you have

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that inner conflict of something
doesn't feel right?

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I need to find and people go
different routes.

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They go by and houses Selling
Houses.

230
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Divorce marriage, right?
Everett is to bring that instant

231
00:11:01,300 --> 00:11:04,000
change to their existence as
opposed to looking inward, the

232
00:11:04,008 --> 00:11:06,200
saying, what am I not
acknowledging about myself?

233
00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,900
What am I missing from my cell?
I think people come into BDSM

234
00:11:09,900 --> 00:11:13,400
looking for that, General
others, stumble upon it, obvious

235
00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,200
are seeking certain things from
it, but I think a big chunk of

236
00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,700
it, especially after covid
covid-19 other Turning Point

237
00:11:18,700 --> 00:11:21,300
people realize how short life
is, and it's like, well, now I

238
00:11:21,300 --> 00:11:24,200
got to go live.
Hello, Kink world.

239
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:25,800
I'm here, right.
And it's like, they're jumping

240
00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,900
in head for instance, which is
great because shame is difficult

241
00:11:28,900 --> 00:11:31,800
to work past.
Yeah, by myself, you know, after

242
00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,400
my second divorce actually, I'll
step back and say that, I think

243
00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,000
that there's always been a lot
of experimentation as you were

244
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,100
mentioning.
It's a lot of curiosity and what

245
00:11:40,100 --> 00:11:42,400
about this, what about that?
And so, you know, it started

246
00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,200
probably in my 20s and then you
know, after marriages and things

247
00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,300
like that, I was like, oh, let's
try this again.

248
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,300
You know, hopped on Bumble
found.

249
00:11:50,300 --> 00:11:54,000
Somebody was a Dom and I decided
to become a sub for a while

250
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,500
realized that I'm not sure if it
was the lifestyle, or if it was

251
00:11:57,500 --> 00:12:01,300
just the jerk that I found, but
Putting out that just kidding

252
00:12:01,300 --> 00:12:03,400
about that.
It could have been a whole

253
00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,400
number of things.
As you were saying, it's really,

254
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,900
it's a trial and error situation
but I recognized that it wasn't

255
00:12:08,900 --> 00:12:10,700
really for me.
I released that particular

256
00:12:10,700 --> 00:12:14,300
situation was not for me.
I didn't like to be you know in

257
00:12:14,300 --> 00:12:16,900
the middle of a meeting in the
middle of the day and being told

258
00:12:16,900 --> 00:12:20,300
what to do you know virtually
and it's to be extremely

259
00:12:20,300 --> 00:12:23,200
disruptive and I was like,
listen dude I just can't you

260
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,900
know this is not working for me.
I'm what is our safe word?

261
00:12:25,900 --> 00:12:29,400
You know, this is it, you know?
So it didn't last very long but

262
00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,400
yeah.
Yeah, but I was always like,

263
00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,100
wondering I was like was it just
the, you know that I, you know,

264
00:12:34,100 --> 00:12:36,800
think I'm just going to throw
the baby out with the bathwater.

265
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,800
Well, like what does a healthy
life, including BDSM look and

266
00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,900
feel like versus what?
Maybe a less healthy life

267
00:12:43,900 --> 00:12:46,400
including BDSM.
I think a lot of people would be

268
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,200
curious as to how to know when
they've got it and this is

269
00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,600
working for them or gosh.
This might be a problem.

270
00:12:51,700 --> 00:12:53,100
Yeah.
No, it's I'm so happy.

271
00:12:53,100 --> 00:12:54,700
You said that.
I haven't heard that in a while.

272
00:12:54,700 --> 00:12:57,800
It's like one folks come in
romanticizing, this lifestyle

273
00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:59,600
because only God this person's
go.

274
00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,500
Come and shoot me and give me
the blah blah blah blah blah and

275
00:13:02,500 --> 00:13:05,000
it sounds pretty until it's real
life and then he like you're in

276
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,500
a meeting at 2:00 and there's
any like, send me pictures of

277
00:13:07,500 --> 00:13:08,800
your panties.
Like no, dude.

278
00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,700
Like I'm busy right now.
So it's all about perspective

279
00:13:11,700 --> 00:13:14,100
and experience because you have
a lot of folks who are coming

280
00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:17,100
into this thinking, it's about
power powers and element to it.

281
00:13:17,100 --> 00:13:19,000
But you also have to be
considered a, what the other

282
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:20,400
person has going on in their
lives, right?

283
00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,100
Because this is all
make-believe, all of it is

284
00:13:23,100 --> 00:13:25,400
make-believe because at any
time, if you got up, you dumb

285
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,500
out, what am I gonna do?
Kidnap, you don't break them.

286
00:13:27,500 --> 00:13:29,400
All right, and I'm keeping you
against your will number

287
00:13:29,700 --> 00:13:32,200
Violating it right?
This is completely consensual.

288
00:13:32,300 --> 00:13:36,300
My Approach Speedy has a very
consensual equal approach,

289
00:13:36,300 --> 00:13:37,600
right?
Knowing that I'm going to

290
00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:39,200
pretend, we're in a dynamic,
right?

291
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,700
You have your life, I have my,
my goal is to help you succeed

292
00:13:42,700 --> 00:13:44,500
in and can reach them.
Achieve your goals.

293
00:13:44,500 --> 00:13:47,900
Your Role is to help me achieve
my goals can see live, the best

294
00:13:47,900 --> 00:13:51,000
version of my life that I can't
and we work as a team, one isn't

295
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,500
serving the other.
That while there is a power

296
00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:55,900
exchange, you have the dominie,
have the submissive, we have

297
00:13:55,900 --> 00:13:59,200
responsibilities for each other
to be the best versions of

298
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:00,100
ourselves.
We can't.

299
00:14:00,100 --> 00:14:01,500
And the way I like to approach
it.

300
00:14:01,500 --> 00:14:04,100
The way I like to Mentor people
into approaching is that it's

301
00:14:04,100 --> 00:14:07,300
not about us, independently
individual, it's about us

302
00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,700
coexisting and Cohen depend.
I want you to have the best

303
00:14:10,700 --> 00:14:12,100
opportunities.
I want to be your biggest

304
00:14:12,100 --> 00:14:13,500
supporter.
I want to make sure you can

305
00:14:13,500 --> 00:14:16,600
achieve all of your goals and I
will support you every way that

306
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,800
I can and your role would be to
do the same for me in whatever

307
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,500
way that looks.
Now, I have five relationships

308
00:14:22,900 --> 00:14:26,800
in a polyamorous relationship,
like, I don't wish polyamory on

309
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,600
my worst enemy because it's
work.

310
00:14:29,700 --> 00:14:31,200
Right?
It's imagine dealing with one

311
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,300
person their emotions.
I'm dealing with five, right?

312
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,700
So it's like sometimes I want to
bang my head but the reward is

313
00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,100
that much greater, right?
So my role I have played Mary

314
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,000
who is?
And they're all dominant

315
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,000
windfall of, I enjoy being
around confidence.

316
00:14:46,300 --> 00:14:48,200
It's not a power struggle.
Not trying to show you.

317
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:49,900
I'm stronger than you.
You're storing the sun.

318
00:14:49,900 --> 00:14:53,100
It's not that I'm attracted to
the person that you are in your,

319
00:14:53,100 --> 00:14:55,900
I can do.
I am, I'm strong, I'm able, but

320
00:14:55,900 --> 00:14:59,000
I'm looking for connection for
someone who sees me as a whole

321
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,300
person that That's what I'm
looking forward to me.

322
00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:04,600
That's my sexual orientation,
but I like to call that another

323
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:06,900
section, right?
Because there's a mind frame,

324
00:15:06,900 --> 00:15:10,000
this in perspective and approach
that comes with this lifestyle

325
00:15:10,100 --> 00:15:12,900
is open and honest.
Communication Integrity respect

326
00:15:12,900 --> 00:15:14,200
that.
We can go down that list but

327
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,600
they have to be present because
if they're not present, we're

328
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,800
going to play The Guessing Game
all the way up and I'm 43.

329
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,500
I don't have time for that.
I have goals, I have Partners

330
00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:26,300
goals.
I have children, I have life

331
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,700
that I want to experience it and
I want to achieve.

332
00:15:28,700 --> 00:15:31,500
I don't want to manage Get well,
not to say, that's not for

333
00:15:31,500 --> 00:15:33,800
everybody, for sure stuff.
There's people out there who

334
00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:35,900
wants to go down to tell him
what to wear and all that stuff.

335
00:15:35,900 --> 00:15:37,600
And then there's the Dom's.
You want to tell the people

336
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,300
what's really cool but Define
what your goals are, defined,

337
00:15:40,300 --> 00:15:42,900
what's important for you so that
you can reflect it with the

338
00:15:42,900 --> 00:15:46,600
other person because we all have
our individual expressions of

339
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,100
what dominance and submission
look like.

340
00:15:48,100 --> 00:15:49,500
But how are we communicating
right?

341
00:15:49,500 --> 00:15:51,700
There's no common language
around that a little bit of

342
00:15:51,700 --> 00:15:52,900
background on myself.
I'm sorry.

343
00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:54,500
I jumped into this lovely.
Yeah.

344
00:15:54,500 --> 00:15:57,000
No, that's totally fine.
I've been doing the lifestyle my

345
00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,100
journey for a while, like
there's different periods of My

346
00:16:00,100 --> 00:16:03,400
sexual maturity I can see that.
Give me different experiences

347
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,300
and understanding about myself.
I was rubbing my aunt lakes in

348
00:16:06,300 --> 00:16:08,600
nylons at five, right?
That was stimulated to me.

349
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,200
And my body had responses and
that carries on until now a

350
00:16:12,208 --> 00:16:13,300
great.
I love that great.

351
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,300
But I started having sex at
12:00, right?

352
00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:18,200
Culturally, I was told to be a,
man, you have to have a lot of

353
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,300
sex, you know, back in the 80s
and the 90s part 92.

354
00:16:22,300 --> 00:16:24,100
Plus that's why I started doing
91.

355
00:16:24,100 --> 00:16:27,100
I think he was, I started to
have a lot of sex because that's

356
00:16:27,100 --> 00:16:29,400
what I thought was expected but
that's not real.

357
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,000
It's to be a good lovers.
One thing to be a good person,

358
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,800
that's a whole different thing,
right?

359
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,300
And my goal with all of this is
to be the best version of myself

360
00:16:37,300 --> 00:16:40,700
so I can help you be the best
version of yourself so that we

361
00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:43,700
can leave a bigger mark on this
planet than where we got

362
00:16:43,700 --> 00:16:46,300
beautiful.
Yeah, with situation that I was

363
00:16:46,300 --> 00:16:49,900
mentioning before it got to the
point where I think there was a

364
00:16:49,900 --> 00:16:54,400
lot of Dom ego in the way we're
in this particular situation

365
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,300
which ended at all he wanted he
like insisted that I be with him

366
00:16:58,300 --> 00:17:02,200
and another woman At the same
time and I wanted to see

367
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,000
pictures.
I wanted to feel comfortable

368
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,800
with the situation and upon
seeing what we would be

369
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,400
presented with.
I said no, like I just was not

370
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,300
interested at all.
And he felt that I was defying

371
00:17:14,300 --> 00:17:19,200
his orders and so said I release
you and relinquish you from your

372
00:17:19,300 --> 00:17:23,099
submissive duties and I was
like, Hallelujah is really happy

373
00:17:23,099 --> 00:17:25,700
to be out of that.
So I was like that was not the

374
00:17:25,700 --> 00:17:28,000
right connection.
That was not the right situation

375
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,500
at all.
Ya know like comply.

376
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:30,600
Science.
Because I think about

377
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,300
compliance, right?
And obedience.

378
00:17:32,300 --> 00:17:35,100
And what does that look like?
When I'm not going to have

379
00:17:35,100 --> 00:17:38,100
people do something?
I'm not willing to do myself to,

380
00:17:38,100 --> 00:17:40,600
through the process of
development of our relationship.

381
00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,400
I'm going to burn this trust,
like the road, the title master.

382
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,300
I don't put that on any putter
introduce myself.

383
00:17:45,300 --> 00:17:47,000
Hi.
My name is Joshua and I leave it

384
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:48,100
at that.
The title Master.

385
00:17:48,100 --> 00:17:51,000
Josh was something I'd like to
her in person and I like to earn

386
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:52,900
that through investment in
action.

387
00:17:52,900 --> 00:17:56,100
I will earn the title, whatever
time you give and it also sounds

388
00:17:56,100 --> 00:17:58,000
go on the internet.
So when people play Master, Josh

389
00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:59,500
without comms, get sounds cool
for website.

390
00:17:59,700 --> 00:18:03,400
But we're all human beings who
here knows exactly what's going

391
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,100
on.
Nobody, everybody's winging it.

392
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,400
Some people are a little further
ahead and winging it than

393
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,200
others, but no one gave us the
manual life.

394
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,800
No one gave us the manual of
relationships, knowing gave us

395
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,500
the manual of intimacy among
many of our other managers.

396
00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:17,900
So who are we to say obey,
right?

397
00:18:17,900 --> 00:18:21,700
It's like have you taken into
consideration my reality and the

398
00:18:21,700 --> 00:18:25,900
circumstances of and the in the
repercussions of our choices?

399
00:18:26,100 --> 00:18:29,300
If I'm in a business meeting,
I'm not going to get up and

400
00:18:29,300 --> 00:18:30,700
tell.
Will you forgive him, right?

401
00:18:30,700 --> 00:18:33,900
This is my priority at this
moment and you have to respect

402
00:18:33,900 --> 00:18:36,900
my respect goes so much further
than control.

403
00:18:36,900 --> 00:18:39,000
Hmm.
Fascinating and I love that.

404
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,800
You have a course that you are
offering, which is called people

405
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,700
before Kink and I think that
that is so magical.

406
00:18:45,700 --> 00:18:47,700
Number one, the name is
priceless.

407
00:18:47,700 --> 00:18:52,300
And I imagine that the content
in it really helps to create and

408
00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:57,100
nurture, these kinds of
healthier situations for BDSM to

409
00:18:57,100 --> 00:18:59,000
thrive.
Can you give us a little bit of

410
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,200
the highlighter?
What you share with your

411
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,300
clientele in your courses,
solutely.

412
00:19:03,300 --> 00:19:05,600
So, people before Kink was
created.

413
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:07,800
After about 10 years of
professional domination.

414
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,300
And what I noticed was people
would come to me and they say,

415
00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:13,200
Joshua, I want to work with.
I had a ton of questions to ask

416
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:14,900
because I have to know who you
are before.

417
00:19:14,900 --> 00:19:17,000
I put my hands on, because I
have to understand where you're

418
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:18,800
at, where you've been and where
you're going.

419
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,700
I think I have a gift in the
ability of seeing trajectory

420
00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:24,400
within this stuff within this
lifestyle.

421
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,800
I've been doing it for long
enough to say confidently, say I

422
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,000
have a clear grasp of what's
going Going on when it comes to

423
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,800
Media seminar at a person's
Journey.

424
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:37,000
So I've spoken to a ton of what
ended up coming out about two

425
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:38,900
years ago.
Three years ago was an intake

426
00:19:38,900 --> 00:19:41,000
for maybe a little more.
I have an intake form that's

427
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,800
about now, it's about 100
questions.

428
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,300
The thing is, I don't want to
sit with you for three hours

429
00:19:45,300 --> 00:19:47,900
talking to me right now, because
I would have to ask you each

430
00:19:47,900 --> 00:19:50,400
question, but have to give you
the opportunity to go think

431
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,000
about it.
And then give me the answer.

432
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,200
And it's pretty lengthy, because
I need to understand.

433
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,600
Again, your past, your present,
your triggers, right potential

434
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,300
triggers that you may not even
know what because of your past,

435
00:19:59,300 --> 00:20:01,000
right?
And while we're all different

436
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:02,300
were all very much the same,
right?

437
00:20:02,300 --> 00:20:06,200
So in that time frame covid him,
it was like, what do I do now?

438
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,600
Can't work with people because
of the proximity.

439
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,600
So what do we do?
And I created an intensive with

440
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,500
my partner called people before
Kink and the intention behind

441
00:20:14,500 --> 00:20:17,300
that is to empower folks to
steer their own Journey.

442
00:20:17,300 --> 00:20:20,200
Now, this program is great for
people who have a hard time

443
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:21,800
connecting want to connect with
Community.

444
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,700
Are the people that go into an
event will become a wall flowers

445
00:20:24,700 --> 00:20:27,000
and don't know what to say,
don't understand what the king

446
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:28,900
Journey means.
Don't understand where they

447
00:20:28,900 --> 00:20:30,400
stand with.
In the road, right?

448
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,600
So it's a very ground level
entry point for the inexperience

449
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,700
and for the experience for the
veterans, because we also get

450
00:20:36,700 --> 00:20:39,100
complacent and comfortable with
where we're at, right?

451
00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:40,700
Whether you're dumb or sub or
right.

452
00:20:40,700 --> 00:20:43,300
Anywhere within that Spectrum,
you find this groove of comfort

453
00:20:43,300 --> 00:20:45,600
and you stay in.
Now, I'm a belief that we all

454
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,200
fall on the Spectrum dominance
and submission owns going to be

455
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,000
Almighty.
Dominant owns going to be

456
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,700
Almighty submissive but we all
fall into a spectrum with the

457
00:20:52,700 --> 00:20:54,900
people we meet.
And what happens in that is a

458
00:20:54,900 --> 00:20:57,600
natural level of power exchange
and chemistry.

459
00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,500
Right?
Do I feel more dominant to this?

460
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,600
Do I feel more submissive to
this bush and these are things

461
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,400
thoughts and feelings that we
have to acknowledge internal so

462
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,900
people before Kink was created
so that we can.

463
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:09,800
There's only also 24 hours a
day.

464
00:21:09,900 --> 00:21:12,700
I was that tennis elbow shoulder
pain from vlogging in spanking

465
00:21:12,700 --> 00:21:14,000
and stuff.
So it's like that's another

466
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,100
reason why I can't do this
forever but I want to empower

467
00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:20,300
people to do it for themselves.
Right to stop relying on other

468
00:21:20,300 --> 00:21:23,400
people to fear your experiences,
so that you can get the

469
00:21:23,408 --> 00:21:25,800
vocabulary to steer your own
experiences.

470
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,600
So you can know what it feels
like to hold space and create

471
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,100
space for others.
Is ultimately, what creating

472
00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:33,500
space and Hogan's?
Face means is giving someone

473
00:21:33,500 --> 00:21:35,200
your undivided attention
perspective.

474
00:21:35,700 --> 00:21:37,900
That's all it is for people say,
holding face, what does that

475
00:21:37,900 --> 00:21:39,400
mean?
And without judgment, that's a

476
00:21:39,408 --> 00:21:41,700
hard and keep your mouth shut,
just hold face and let them

477
00:21:41,700 --> 00:21:43,400
talk, right?
There's the processes.

478
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,200
So pbk is for those who have a
hard time, connecting don't know

479
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,100
how to connect are working
through, shame, trying to find

480
00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:52,400
others like themselves.
Because while we're all very

481
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,200
much saying we're all doing our
Journeys, we're all at different

482
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,400
points of our Journeys.
And some of us are willing to

483
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,400
say, I don't know, and I need
goggles.

484
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,800
There's a saying I know
everything and then others are

485
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,800
up there working, right?
So there's a ladder to this, as

486
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,200
well and ultimately what I want
to do and I just want to empower

487
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:12,000
folks to be able to Define their
own existence to forgive

488
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,800
themselves for not being who
they thought they would be,

489
00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:16,000
because that's a hard one,
right?

490
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,100
When you look back in your in
their 40s or 50s and 30s is kind

491
00:22:19,100 --> 00:22:21,500
of difficult because it's like,
we're just becoming adults,

492
00:22:21,500 --> 00:22:22,200
right?
20s.

493
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,100
And we're like late teenagers,
but the 30s is, when you

494
00:22:25,100 --> 00:22:28,000
realize, wait a second, this
Trivedi is a foot, right?

495
00:22:28,100 --> 00:22:29,400
It's like, something's not
going.

496
00:22:29,500 --> 00:22:31,100
On right?
Like that's when we realized

497
00:22:31,100 --> 00:22:33,300
everyone is winging it.
Everybody's faking like we're

498
00:22:33,300 --> 00:22:34,700
faking it.
Till you make, it was like well

499
00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:35,700
what does that mean?
Right.

500
00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:38,300
So it's all within that
timeframe of I want to

501
00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:39,900
understand what life means to
me.

502
00:22:39,900 --> 00:22:43,200
Yeah, that's fascinating.
And before you were mentioning

503
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,900
your tennis elbow, I'm getting
older and 43 like there seems to

504
00:22:46,900 --> 00:22:50,200
have been a little bit of a
subconscious clock going on in

505
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,800
your mind.
I'm just curious, like, how long

506
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,300
do you think that this is going
to be a big part of your life?

507
00:22:55,300 --> 00:22:57,100
Is it going to be a forever
thing?

508
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,100
Do you think that there are
certain people that Surely, you

509
00:23:00,108 --> 00:23:03,800
know, come into it and then have
a certain life cycle and then

510
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,500
Edge out of it.
Is there a high point or a

511
00:23:06,508 --> 00:23:08,600
Tipping Point?
The old Diaries, depending on

512
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,700
the people and their
experiences, this is going to be

513
00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:13,100
part of my lifestyle forever
because it's process of

514
00:23:13,100 --> 00:23:15,500
connections.
Not an action is not the way we

515
00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:17,600
dress, but it's the way we
engage with each other.

516
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,900
So I will be engaged in this
lifestyle, until I transition

517
00:23:20,900 --> 00:23:23,000
Beyond.
So I produce events here in the

518
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,200
city of do been doing that for
about 10 years as well, and we

519
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,700
have all types of folks, all
along the H Vector that Come in

520
00:23:29,700 --> 00:23:32,700
at different points of their
lives for my events, because I

521
00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:36,000
host the vents that are socially
driven by learning experiences,

522
00:23:36,100 --> 00:23:38,200
and socially driven, that
actually came off the people

523
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,900
before Kink intensified.
So with the Intensive, the

524
00:23:40,900 --> 00:23:43,800
intention behind it is, it
starts with an intake that

525
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,300
requires you to look Inward and
to find the language around the

526
00:23:47,300 --> 00:23:49,400
thoughts and the feelings that
you've had for extra bottom.

527
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,800
Here's you come to the retreat.
And in the process, the first

528
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,600
major class that we have is
called people before he came to

529
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,500
foundation.
And what we're doing is we're

530
00:23:57,500 --> 00:23:59,200
creating a container in the
program.

531
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,700
So No one comes in and out just
like it's all of us.

532
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,300
We pair you up one-on-one and
what you're doing is, you're

533
00:24:04,300 --> 00:24:07,400
going to revisit this intake and
you're going to share your

534
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,500
answers with the person in front
of you and they're going to

535
00:24:09,500 --> 00:24:12,000
share with you and you're going
to hold this container of

536
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,600
judgment free and open heartless
because the goal of it is to one

537
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,200
actualize Your Truth by speak.
Because how often do the

538
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,900
thoughts come from here and out
your mouth into the real world

539
00:24:20,900 --> 00:24:22,400
especially about sexual
identity.

540
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,300
It's not so easy.
Because how do we trust the

541
00:24:24,300 --> 00:24:26,000
person in front of us?
How do we know they're not going

542
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:27,400
to draft us?
How do we know they're not going

543
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,100
to shame us?
Everyone is here at this

544
00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:31,100
intensity.
Others for the same reason to

545
00:24:31,100 --> 00:24:34,000
experience it without judgment
without shame right to to push

546
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,600
the envelope into
vulnerabilities.

547
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,600
So in the container, we
actualize Our Truth by speaking

548
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,800
it to the person in front of us
and it's not the whole world

549
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,700
Granite.
There's 15 groups but everyone

550
00:24:42,700 --> 00:24:45,000
is so engaged in the
conversation, in front of them,

551
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,000
everything falls away in that
process, you become vulnerable

552
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,400
and you get to experience with
vulnerability and safety feel

553
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,000
like and that's the turning
point for me.

554
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,900
Say, wow, this is the first time
for a lot of people speaking my

555
00:24:54,900 --> 00:24:57,700
truth and I'm okay.
And I'm listening to what

556
00:24:57,700 --> 00:25:00,400
they're saying and they sound
just like Me just different

557
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,400
experiences.
It looks different, but the

558
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,600
feeling is the Same Love, shame
fear, whatever it is.

559
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,500
The feelings are the same even
though they looked.

560
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,900
So, the important part of that
program is community in common

561
00:25:11,900 --> 00:25:14,300
outright to see while we all
look different, but we all have

562
00:25:14,300 --> 00:25:16,100
so many different things going
on.

563
00:25:16,100 --> 00:25:18,900
We're all very much the same.
Now, we have a spectrum of

564
00:25:18,900 --> 00:25:20,600
people that come within the
lifestyle, come to the

565
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,400
intensives ranging from 21 up
until 90 break because everyone

566
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,400
hits different points at a
different time.

567
00:25:26,500 --> 00:25:29,300
Socially, we are given more
permission on the surface.

568
00:25:29,500 --> 00:25:30,800
Right?
What happens underneath?

569
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,900
That is a little different, but
we're giving more permission to

570
00:25:32,900 --> 00:25:34,800
be ourselves.
Especially if you're in more

571
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,200
urban, Metropolitan inspect, the
lgbtq communities sprawling and

572
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,200
like, acceptance is a big thing
acceptance.

573
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,400
I'll put acceptance because
there's a huge glass and

574
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,500
ultimately what it is is that I
think folks are just looking to

575
00:25:47,500 --> 00:25:50,700
experience life wherever and
there is no, he's right, there's

576
00:25:50,700 --> 00:25:53,100
never a too late.
I'm writing a book about my

577
00:25:53,100 --> 00:25:56,200
experiences around growth,
introspection and professional

578
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:57,500
domination.
The life lessons.

579
00:25:57,500 --> 00:25:59,400
I've learned today.
Actually, today, I was talking

580
00:25:59,500 --> 00:26:02,800
Converted into a reporter is
what if our purpose here on this

581
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,700
planet is just to experience
without a time to write.

582
00:26:05,700 --> 00:26:09,400
And that all of our experiences
positive or negative in Port in

583
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,300
different, they don't transcend
with us.

584
00:26:11,300 --> 00:26:14,200
Those are the stories we get to
reflect on in the afternoon

585
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:15,900
right?
Because they who knows what's

586
00:26:15,900 --> 00:26:19,400
happening here, right?
So why not run with amazing?

587
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,600
That's beautiful.
I love that so much.

588
00:26:21,700 --> 00:26:24,700
One last thought and that is
that I know that a lot of people

589
00:26:24,700 --> 00:26:29,600
who come into Kink may or may
not have a proclivity to it

590
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:35,000
because of some sort of abuse in
their childhood or early years

591
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,200
of life.
And so they may approach it

592
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,000
thinking that they have an
affinity to this and it's not

593
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,200
necessarily the answer that
they're looking for.

594
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,400
It may actually lead to this
cycle of either addiction or

595
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,100
something that is not
necessarily as healthy.

596
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,200
How does one know that when
they're stepping into something

597
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,200
that it is going to be
beneficial and healthy for them

598
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,100
versus to a place where Maybe
Tips into something that looks a

599
00:27:01,100 --> 00:27:04,000
little bit more like addiction.
I guess where people would have

600
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,600
to start is in tension and this
is where the Integrity Maps.

601
00:27:06,700 --> 00:27:09,100
Why am I looking to do this?
And no one knows you don't have

602
00:27:09,100 --> 00:27:11,600
to tell anyone but you have to
acknowledge and accept it within

603
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,800
yourself.
Am I looking for this because of

604
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:15,900
my past?
And how am I going to work with

605
00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:17,600
the framing trauma?
Because ultimately it was,

606
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,200
that's reframing trauma, right?
And reframing, Trauma isn't

607
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,100
satiating, the experience.
This is what happened to.

608
00:27:24,100 --> 00:27:27,600
I want to recreate reframing
trauma is changing the cycle of

609
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,300
the process, right?
I have a Really great example.

610
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,700
There was someone I was working
with who wanted their haircut

611
00:27:32,700 --> 00:27:36,400
Force because as a child, they
were a child of the 60s and

612
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,600
their parents.
It was a male body person and

613
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,100
their parents didn't want them
to have long hair, because boys

614
00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:43,600
don't do that.
So, they would shave his head

615
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,800
forces and that was traumatic.
And in that what happened was he

616
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,600
developed a desire to shape
women's hair because he had

617
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,300
sisters, who were able to grow
their own hair?

618
00:27:51,300 --> 00:27:53,800
However, long they wanted and
they almost flaunted it up.

619
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,200
So, out of that resentment, he
grew a desire to change that

620
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,600
power, fast, forward connected
with They have been in a

621
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,900
long-term relationship and their
role was to see she just

622
00:28:03,900 --> 00:28:06,900
finished they let him chavous
their head and cutting all this

623
00:28:06,900 --> 00:28:09,200
stuff forces.
Can I put fortunately in coach

624
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,500
because that was the agreement
now, however that turned out

625
00:28:12,500 --> 00:28:15,300
whatever I don't know because
that's years before and stuff

626
00:28:15,300 --> 00:28:17,200
that they've experienced as I
was explaining.

627
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,300
This is how it came to be so he
sought me out hoping that I can

628
00:28:20,300 --> 00:28:23,200
help him work through this but
in his mind the working through

629
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,000
this was finding the mistress
who can teach them and teach

630
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,500
them about a haircut over a
period of time and then slowly

631
00:28:28,700 --> 00:28:31,200
tear and I not with that I said,
how does this reframe your

632
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:32,800
tongue?
Like if it's just feeding

633
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,900
feeding the fetish and I said,
how about this?

634
00:28:34,900 --> 00:28:37,700
How about if you sat down in my
chair and I just took a piece

635
00:28:37,700 --> 00:28:40,700
off right away I said that would
jar you and where the trauma

636
00:28:40,700 --> 00:28:43,900
reframing comes from his if I do
a quick strip in your head.

637
00:28:43,900 --> 00:28:46,400
You're going to be like, holy
shit stop right now that's going

638
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,900
to give you your power back
because it's not what you wanted

639
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,800
triggers as I've come to learn
them are emotional and physical

640
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,100
responses to maintain control
over situation that we had

641
00:28:56,100 --> 00:28:57,600
previously lost control in
right?

642
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,500
So my question was how do we Not
satiate, your Festival, reframe,

643
00:29:01,500 --> 00:29:04,000
your trunk and that's what came
into vision.

644
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:05,700
And they were like, I don't know
if I want.

645
00:29:05,700 --> 00:29:08,000
Well, now you gotta ask yourself
what are you doing this?

646
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:08,800
Yeah.
Are you doing this?

647
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,700
Because you want to heal you
doing this because you want to

648
00:29:10,700 --> 00:29:12,200
scratch an itch.
Oh my God.

649
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,100
So brilliantly Illustrated.
Thank you so much for that

650
00:29:15,100 --> 00:29:18,800
example, Joshua Rodriguez.
You are the master.

651
00:29:23,500 --> 00:29:26,200
Thank you so much for helping to
dispel shame.

652
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,700
Thank you so much for being a
role model in the work that

653
00:29:28,700 --> 00:29:29,600
you're doing.
Ying.

654
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,500
I'm going to put all of your
contact information in the show

655
00:29:32,500 --> 00:29:35,100
notes below.
I encourage everybody who has a

656
00:29:35,100 --> 00:29:39,100
curiosity for BDSM to, please
look him up because this could

657
00:29:39,100 --> 00:29:42,900
be your Saving Grace and a
healthy way to BDSM enjoy.

658
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:44,900
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much.