Boyband Fame to Bold Reinvention | Ricky Rebel, Ep 211

Jennifer Norman:
There comes a moment in life when you realize the version of you the world accepts might not be the version of you that's true. And then comes the choice. Do you stay palatable or do you become fully expressed? Today's guest chose expression. And not quietly, but boldly, unapologetically and in full color. Ricky Rebel, born Richard Godinez, is a singer, songwriter, dancer and media personality who first rose to fame as the lead vocalist of the boy band No Authority. Signed to Michael Jackson's MJJ Music and later Madonna's Maverick Records, the group toured with major artists like Britney Spears and Destiny's Child, giving Ricky an early front row seat to the music industry at its highest level. But what followed wasn't a straight line. It was reinvention.

Jennifer Norman:
From his solo albums like Manipulator and the New Alpha, to his award winning Sonic Boom music video, to Grammy consideration for Veronica and his upcoming induction into the Hollywood Entertainment Hall of Fame, Ricky has continued to evolve not just as an artist, but as a voice. He's also stepped into media as co host of the Hollywood Rebel Report and is expanding into film, fashion and cultural commentary, proving that he's not just participating in the industry, he's shaping it. But beneath all of that is something even more compelling. A human being navigating gender norms, criticism, and the courage it takes to live out loud in a world that often rewards conformity. In our conversation, we are going to explore the truth behind early fame and what it teaches you. The courage it takes to reinvent yourself publicly, creative self expression and the cost of being fully seen. How personal beliefs intersect with art and persona and what it really means to stand in your truth, even when it's not universally accepted. I'm looking forward to this juicy conversation. Come on in and take a listen.

Jennifer Norman:
Ricky, how are you today?

Ricky Rebel:
I'm great, thank you. That was a beautiful introduction

Jennifer Norman:
And you are a beautiful human being. Oh my goodness. Can I just take a moment? I want to know who was the kid? Who was that kid growing up, when did you first start to feel this pull towards performing?

Ricky Rebel:
I started very young. I remember watching the Olympics and seeing someone doing some backflips and flying in the air and I told my parents, I'm like, I just want to fly. That was my first ambition as a kid.

Jennifer Norman:
So you went into gymnastics, right?

Ricky Rebel:
Yeah, yeah. And I placed like 13th in the state of California and they were prepping me to be in the Olympics and there was a lot of pressure in that world and in order for me to continue doing gymnastics, they Wanted me to take dance classes too. Ballet and jazz. And then I. The first time I stepped into a dance class, I felt this freedom I had never experienced before. Because before that, in. In gymnastics, the second you step on, onto the floor, whatever apparatus you're doing, the judges are automatically deducting points from your record. Like, that's what they're trying to do, is find all the faults in something.

Ricky Rebel:
But when I went into dance class, there wasn't a judge there. Nobody was judging me. I was just completely free. And it's just that feeling that I love. Continue to try to experience it all the time in my life. When I perform or when I make music or produce for people, I try to inspire that freedom in them as well.

Jennifer Norman:
That's really interesting. I used to take gymnastics and dance as well. So I know exactly what you're talking about when you're competing and you've got all these technical details that you're trying to hit. And I think it instilled in me personally, I'm curious about you, this. This whole idea about judgment about our bodies, about how we are showing up and how we do present ourselves. And something about that is very restrictive and it is performative, frankly. And then you get into another place. Now, certainly there are some kind of ballroom dancing and things like that, which are also very technical.

Jennifer Norman:
And you can be going into competitions and things like that. But if you're going into dance to know how to move your body and just feel freedom, that is such a different way of being. That's just such a different way of feeling in your body. So tell me about how that caused you or had an impact on your life going into going forward.

Ricky Rebel:
Gosh, it impacted everything that I do in my life. The freedom of dance movement came very natural to me. And I just started to. I got an agent as a kid and I started doing commercials and movies and theater. And I started taking singing classes after that as well. And I would get into the room and for a commercial, like Pepsi, a commercial, and I do a backflip. And they're like, oh, my gosh, we love this kid. Just put him in.

Ricky Rebel:
It was. It was pretty cool because not a lot of kids had that. That training. I had the ability to flip and do all this stuff along with. With dance and everything. So it gave me an advantage back then a lot. And I. Gosh, I remember auditioning to be in a boy band.

Ricky Rebel:
I know we haven't really touched on that yet. I was...

Jennifer Norman:
How old were you?

Ricky Rebel:
At a very young age, I. Well, I met the boys when I was like 14 years old. 14, yeah. We met in dance competitions. There were like these dance competitions and we would, you know, after our... We would compete against each other. Me and the guys in the band would go to McDonald's and hang out and have fun.

Ricky Rebel:
And so we had already known each other before. We had auditioned to be in this new group that this production company was doing. And at first I was supposed to be a backup singer and a backup dancer for another lead guy. And then they got me in the studio and they realized that I can sing and that I was actually very fast behind the... In the studio. I nailed it pretty quickly. So they ended up making me another lead singer. And our demo got into the hands of Michael Jackson and Sony Records and he loved it and wanted to sign us.

Ricky Rebel:
We were called No Authority. And I remember that day, you know, walking into Sony Records meeting Jerry Greenberg, the president of Sony, and they just freaking loved us. And it was amazing. I didn't get to meet Michael then, but he did sign us.

Jennifer Norman:
So amazing. What were your parents like during this time? Were they... It seems like they must have been very supportive to be able to, you know, help you to go into gymnastics and dance and music and all of these things.

Ricky Rebel:
I've always had a very strong support group from my family. I'm not like that horror story that you've heard of people with horrific families.

Jennifer Norman:
The Momagers.

Ricky Rebel:
Yeah, the Momagers and the people that didn't believe in them type of thing. I. That's very alien to me. My parents have always believed in me. My grandparents believed in me as well. They would take me to auditions when I was a kid, fighting two hours of traffic to get to LA for three. Three auditions in a row. And they did it.

Ricky Rebel:
My grandfather especially had a very strong belief in me and my talents.

Jennifer Norman:
It makes such a difference. When I was growing up, I was the youngest out of six. And when I was doing dance, I remember there was an audition for Little Orphan Annie. I grew up in New York on Long Island the auditions were for Broadway. And I remember going back home to mom and saying, my dance teacher is encouraging me to try out and to go audition for this. And my mom said, no, I'm not taking you into the city. It's way too far. You're not doing that.

Jennifer Norman:
And yeah, it was like, you know, wa wa. It immediately made me think, okay, I need to stay small.

Jennifer Norman:
And so. When I hear about parents that have, like, such an overwhelming....and grandparents that have this overwhelming support. it almost makes me want to cry because I...for that when I was growing up...and it's really just...I am like, yay, yay for your parents. God bless them.

Jennifer Norman:
And it's not that my parents were bad. They were wonderful parents. I mean, six kids. I mean, that's a lot. And they were tired and there was a whole lot going on, too. So I can't necessarily complain very much because it would have been very, very difficult, just all things considered. But yeah, it's amazing when I hear stories about family members just going out of their way to support and to encourage and to cheer you on. So yay for them. That's awesome.

Ricky Rebel:
I love my parents and my grandparents. Rest in peace.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh.

Ricky Rebel:
I honestly believe that my cat is the spirit of my grandmother because I. We love each other so much. It's crazy. I have a rag doll. Her name is Willow. And I swear, like, certain things that she does reminds me of my grandmother.

Jennifer Norman:
That's so cute. Oh, my gosh. So tell me about the time in No Authority. How long was that the band around and what was it like all of a sudden rising to this place of stardom when you're so young?

Ricky Rebel:
It was fun. It was a lot of fun. But it was also a lot of work and a lot of tears. It's a lot of stuff.

Jennifer Norman:
It's a lot of being tired or homesick or what was it?

Ricky Rebel:
No, I didn't really ever get homesick. I just was a very ambitious boy. I still am, you know, I was a very, very ambitious kid. Very. Like, we never rehearsed enough for me. I would be the one to kind of want us to rehearse, and I'd be the bad guy telling us do it over and over and over and over and over again. And so that was just kind of tough that we. We really didn't have that strong management to crack the whip.

Ricky Rebel:
Like, we just kind of ignored them, Like we were called No Authority for a reason.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, okay.

Ricky Rebel:
You know, I personally have an aversion towards... I think that we were literally the authorities, like, each of us, like individual authority doing things and collectively as a group. It just. Sometimes it was hard to move us in sync with each other.

Jennifer Norman:
It's funny that you should say that because I guess you guys were contemporaries, you know, right around the 90s. And so do you think that that's the difference between the ones that make it versus the ones that don't is like discipline or, or is it management or are there just other things that go into the success of a boy band?

Ricky Rebel:
There's a lot of politics in the music industry. You know, if. If your A&R representative or a representative that loves you, like gets pregnant or something and can't work, your whole project can be just down the drain.

Jennifer Norman:
Or they don't. Or they don't give you over to another one.

Ricky Rebel:
Yeah, because they can give you to another one. But that other person might not have as much passion for your music and for you as the person who is not working there at that time. And that, that little ring in the, like a wrench in the wheel can clog any aspect. So it's just a miracle when everything works out perfectly or works out at all in that industry with. With specifically working with. With record labels. But I do think that, yeah, discipline is very important. You have to work extra hard.

Ricky Rebel:
Just period. You know, it's a good thing. You having discipline is. Is super important and really wanting it. And I, I think that I definitely had a lot of discipline. I. I grew up dancing with Marguerite Derricks, who grew to be a huge choreographer.

Ricky Rebel:
She's from New York actually. And she, she did Showgirls. You know that movie Showgirls with the. Yeah, the hands.

Jennifer Norman:
Elizabeth Berkeley. I was gonna say her. It wasn't Hurley, it wasn't Banks. I knew it was a B and an L, E, Y.

Ricky Rebel:
I worked with that woman and that woman was like, hard to deal with. Yeah, lots of discipline. I was in a teen company with her and me and along with like Wade Robson, you know, the, the choreographer for Britney Spears and. And Charles Claypow, who's won Emmys and choreographer dance with Michael Jackson. And that was who I grew up with. That, that level of. Of discipline and artistry. And it's also takes a lot of money.

Ricky Rebel:
You know, I know Lou Perlman put a lot of money into Backstreet Boys and IN SYNC and that he's like, at a boy band factory. It cost like a million to work with Max Martin, like one song.

Jennifer Norman:
Oof.

Ricky Rebel:
So we were lucky enough to work with Rodney Jerkins, who now is just, you know, seen as one of the greatest producers in the game of all time for R & B pop. But back then he had only worked with like Mary J. Blige and then our record after that. So it's like he was newish. He was only 18 years old, a little prodigy. And we made like a stunning record. It's, it's incredible.

Ricky Rebel:
First album was called Keep On is an R & B pop record. Great music. Talk about like, what was hard about that experience? I mean, getting in the studio with Rodney and the people he was working with. They were, the people he was working with were mean to me, period. They were cruel.

Jennifer Norman:
Were they mean in general or was there just a personality thing?

Ricky Rebel:
They're just kind of, you know, how do I put this? Like it was the 90s, so anything goes. They could talk about explicit sexual things. Oh, to make you like, oh, think about, about this and that. And they'll say the nastiest stuff to get to provoke you. And I'm like 16 years old. You know what I mean? Talking about this. It just felt, it's just weird.

Jennifer Norman:
I think I read an article where they said you need to drink some more pussy juice or something like that in order to get your voice deeper. Was that the people?

Ricky Rebel:
Thank you, Jennifer.

Jennifer Norman:
You can tell. Hey, this is an explicit podcast. I know you were trying to be polite, but we don't have to pretend. Don't dance around it. We can say, we say, we can say pussy. Yeah, it's really okay.

Ricky Rebel:
You're definitely my girl. You're my girl. What are you.

Jennifer Norman:
I saw you. Like, how am I supposed to say this?

Ricky Rebel:
Are you a Scorpio or what?

Jennifer Norman:
You know, that's actually a long tangential story. I was adopted and I was abandoned, so I don't really have a birthday, so I have a made up birthday. So I don't really know what my, my, my real sign is, but I was given a birth date of July 28, which would make me a Leo. And so I didn't know this until I was older. So when I was younger I thought I was a Leo, so I identified as a Leo.

Ricky Rebel:
You identify as a Leo, that's perfect.

Jennifer Norman:
I don't, I don't really think I'm a Leo anymore, but you know, I definitely identified with as one growing up.

Ricky Rebel:
Well, the fact that you're not, you're not scared to talk about these dark things or kind of.

Jennifer Norman:
No, no, this is, this is why, this is what podcasts are about. It's like, let's get to the truth. And, and it's, it's okay to talk about it because it happened and, and people are intrigued and what it's like being a 16 year old kid and being, you know, kind of, you know, forced into this adult type, over sexualized kind of world. And I think with the boy bands too, they expect you to be like chick like girl magnets. Because that's what the seemingly. What the, what the appeal is, I guess. And so they wanted you to be very hetero facing and not as flamboyant.

Ricky Rebel:
We had to have a media training for it. They had to talk to us about, you know, how to appear a certain way. We all knew what it was about, you know, not appearing feminine, not appearing gay, especially for, for me and for Eric Stretch. I'm outing Eric. He's. He's already outed himself a long time ago.

Jennifer Norman:
Okay, good.

Ricky Rebel:
But yeah, just like, oh, you can't, you know, don't walk that way, walk this way, sit this way. And then like I said, it's like, what would you do if so. And so walked in the room right now? Would you, would you her like this, that, that and would you eat her this way, that, that. Sing like that right now? And you know, and it was just this weird. Now that I think back, I'm like, dude, like we were only 16 years old and you're talking to me about this stuff and it's the 90s, it's a different time. But it was also like this pressure to come across a certain way, like...

Jennifer Norman:
A sex symbol for, for girls.

Ricky Rebel:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like specifically straight. Straight. And it was funny because I, I had girlfriends all the way up until. For a long time. You know, it's not like I had to imagine too much what that would. That would feel like to be attracted to women, because I am. But it's just.

Ricky Rebel:
I think it probably had an. Being treated that way probably had an impact on me that I'm not really aware of until right now. Hey, how uncomfortable I am. Yeah.

Jennifer Norman:
Wow.

Ricky Rebel:
I should probably talk to my therapist about that.

Jennifer Norman:
Well, you know, recalling the 90s and even thinking like George Michael and even Ricky Martin, you know, like there were so many stars that I think either they were going through, you know, a transition themselves during that time, who knows? But it was as if, if you're a star and you're in a boy band. Yeah, you. They're trying to train you or at least have you hide those parts of you that they don't find commercialized or commercializable, shall I say? Because there's so much about the money making and the business aspect of it.

Ricky Rebel:
I had a producer lock me up into a studio and say, had this guy come in and read Bible verses to me telling me that I'm going to hell. And I was literally locked into the studio and I could hear on my headset like this guy telling, like, reading Bible verses to me. And he also told me, he said, you can't be openly gay and make it at the same time. It's just not going to happen.

Jennifer Norman:
Let me ask, so how long were you with No Authority and then you decided to come out, or was it just that you were... That they guessed that, like, maybe you weren't completely out and that they just assumed that you were gay? Can you, can you share a little bit of that with me just so that I understand? Because you said you were with girls and then there was this period of time where maybe they didn't like the way that all of a sudden you were seeming, and then a guy locks you in a room with Bible verses saying, you're going to hell.

Ricky Rebel:
Yeah, that was fun. It was. You know, growing up, I've always been kind of like a shy boy. Quiet, you could put the word feminine, but also kind of not, you know, I have a very strong masculine streak as well. Like when it comes to, like, going after what I want, wearing what I want, doing what I want, pushing people around if I have to, to get there. I have no problems if someone's in my way, you know, Know, it's like this. I have a very strong, both feminine, masculine quality about me. So sometimes people, I think it, well, especially in the industry, that thought it was a huge, huge problem.

Ricky Rebel:
And I had girlfriends for the longest time, and then I. So I kind of resented the fact that they would be like, you know, you can't be gay. I'm like, well, I'm not. Like, I'm not. I don't understand. I. I don't like, I hate that this is like a part of the thing. But it was always a question.

Ricky Rebel:
Always in dance, you know, you can't. Ricky can't move that way. I remember one time Marguerite put on this really great song by Prince. It's called If I Was Your Girlfriend. You heard that song, huh? And she did, like this really feminine choreography for the class. And I was just like, feeling myself with it, like, boom, boom. And it's like she's like, she pulled me aside. She pulled my mom aside. And she said, you know what? Ricky can't dance like that ever.

Ricky Rebel:
And I was like, Marguerite, like, I don't understand. Like, you, you taught the class this routine. And I'm doing the routine the way you taught. And she's like, yeah, but that's for the girls to dance like that. You. You can't dance like that. And now when you look at Instagram, you pop it open and all the boys are dancing like that, you know, with their high heels and they're super expressive. But back then it's just, it was a big, big fat no, no, right.

Ricky Rebel:
And I got so embarrassed. I just. That's all I could express to you. It's just like this kind of like embarrassed feeling, you know, I had a girlfriend when we were on tour with Britney Spears. She was on tour as well. And she was in a, in a girl group called I Five, and ten years older than I am. And I just fell in love with her and she fell in love with me. And she looked me in the eye and she told me, she said, Ricky, it doesn't matter who you choose to love. You're beautiful. Period. Who you love doesn't mean anything. You're beautiful.

Ricky Rebel:
And I was like, really? I'm like, yeah, you're right. It doesn't change who you are. Like, like that fundamentalness about you. So she really helped me to come out and...

Ricky Rebel:
Yeah. Plus she was sexually charged by, you know, me experimenting with other guys. She really liked that, so.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, okay.

Ricky Rebel:
It was like a great way to kind of cross promote, cross collaboration. And ever since then I'm like, oh, man, you know, Know, I do lean one way more than the other, but I still, I know attractive women and I know why they're attractive. You know, it's not like I'm blind to that or cut off to that. I think that she broke my heart more than I think anybody's ever broken my heart. So maybe there's some things like that going on when it comes to my attraction to like really pursuing women the way I, I did as, you know, back in that era. I know I do have.

Ricky Rebel:
I feel like I'm in a therapy session right now!

Jennifer Norman:
I have this habit of doing that and being that way. You know, I. You're so wonderful for sharing these stories. And I, you know, I feel love is love is love. I mean, that's my opinion. That's my stance. That's The Human Beauty Movement's stance. And you know, this girl, I just adore that she told you that you're beautiful no matter what.

Jennifer Norman:
And it was pretty much just an eye opening time for you to say it's okay. Like the acceptance, the self acceptance and, and this feeling like I'm okay. It is, it is okay. This is, this is how I choose or, you know, wish to experiment and that's okay. You know, it's really not much, you know, bigger than that is that, you know, you decided at that point maybe to be, you know, more bi.

Jennifer Norman:
And I know. I love your song Boys and Sometimes Girls. I think that's such an adorable...It's an amazing, amazing song. I'll put a link to it in the show notes. No, it's great. And I like the remix, too.

Ricky Rebel:
It is.

Jennifer Norman:
It's amazing.

Ricky Rebel:
Thank you. I think it was just a real authentic song, and that's why it blew it, you know, had the success it had. It's a Billboard top 40 record. I think that's why people can resonate with the authenticity of it. And the girl who told me that. That I was beautiful no matter what, she. She was incredibly intelligent. She was a mathematic engineer.

Ricky Rebel:
And so I thought to myself, somebody so beautiful and so intelligent thinks that way. I know that that's most likely true. Yeah.

Jennifer Norman:
How was it with your parents? Did. Was it okay with them when you mentioned it or when you. How did that come about?

Ricky Rebel:
Yeah, they... With them... Everything is about safety, making sure that you're safe.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah.

Ricky Rebel:
Back then, they didn't have medications that you can be on to prevent HIV. Now we do, which is really cool, but back then, they didn't have that. They didn't have Prep and all of that. So my parents were just very concerned about that and making sure that I was protected. So that was their big thing.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, okay.

Ricky Rebel:
Yeah.

Jennifer Norman:
But aside from. I mean, certainly everybody cares about the, you know, their children's health, and so that's. Yeah, you know, that's first and foremost, but, you know that. But there was, you know, no weirdness or strangeness as far as just the fact that you chose to love or be with whoever you wanted to. It's just a matter of making sure you're safe.

Ricky Rebel:
My mom doesn't like to talk about this, but she... I...She swears she didn't cry, but I. I kind of heard her over the phone kind of tear up a little bit about, oh, you know, not having a child. She's like, I just want. I was hoping for a child, you know, that kind of thing.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, having a grandchild.

Ricky Rebel:
I'm still gonna have a kid. Like, what are you talking about, Mom? Come on. She's like, oh, okay. You know, she kind of teared up a little bit, but she denies it, so.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, selective memory. Selective memory.

Ricky Rebel:
Yeah.

Jennifer Norman:
So then. Yeah, so. So then No Authority dissipates. And then you kind of chose your own path. You wanted to do something more solo artist. And also in, you know, other different avenues, too, going into a little bit of acting and whatnot. Tell us about your next phase of life.

Ricky Rebel:
I had to learn how to produce myself.

Jennifer Norman:
Ah.

Ricky Rebel:
Because we couldn't work with Rodney anymore. So I picked up the guitar. I learned how to play guitar in about a month. I started doing, like, Pro Tools training with this tutor who come over every day, and I pay him by the hour. And he taught me everything I needed to know to make music. And then I just started making my own music. And music that was inspired by my own personal experience, of course, but also the people that I really loved musically, like Michael Jackson, Madonna, Prince. Heavy heavy Prince lover. I love Prince.

Jennifer Norman:
And Bowie, too.

Ricky Rebel:
Bowie was the... Yeah, Bowie was the big one that he didn't come in until later in my. That phase of, like, musical development. He was like the last hero to be inserted into my, like, microchip brain. But he was like, one of the most important ones for me to study.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. When you're studying them, what are you looking for? What is it that really makes you feel that they are so iconic?

Ricky Rebel:
I think what I, I love different things about all of them. So much different strengths and weaknesses that they have I love them for. Madonna's was at the top of the pyramid for me. Her dance ability.

Ricky Rebel:
I feel like she's a beautiful dancer, number one. And number two, I like her voice and I like the way she writes songs. I also like how provocative she was. Not afraid to rock the boat. She rocked the boat nowadays. Like, I don't even know if people have the courage to do things like that, but she rocked the boat hard.

Ricky Rebel:
And I really appreciate that about her. Prince, his catalog of music, like, and his genius in being able to play all of his instruments and write music on the dime. He's incredible. And he also was an excellent performer. Michael, of course, an incredible performer. Incredible records. The King. He's the King.

Ricky Rebel:
And then Bowie. I love his overall artistry, his ability, his. His ability to act and sing. You know, he. I feel like he's like the. The greatest actor out of all of those people. He embodies his. His character the most.

Ricky Rebel:
But. Yeah, so from that, I mean, I just started to develop my own character, and it was Rebel. It is Rebel. And Rebel is glamorous and fun and sexual and bold. It's a very bold character. Yeah.

Jennifer Norman:
There's a couple things I wanted to just add to that. I find it really interesting thinking about the folks that you named and realizing Madonna's the only one that's still alive and still doing it, like, most of them are contemporary. Bowie was. Was older, but, you know, she is as healthy as can be, and she is still doing it. She's coming out with a new album this year. Like, she is extraordinary. And I know that a lot of people are like, oh, you know, it's just like the whole cycle of fame and things like that. And it's kind of a shame when we think about how she has been able to stand the test of time and have this kind of longevity in an industry that can just chew you up and spit you out.

Jennifer Norman:
I mean, gosh, that unto itself is so much talent that people can't even probably understand or don't, you know, just take for granted, I think, because it's very remarkable to not have, like, overdosed on drugs. To not have, you know, other kinds of influences that have. Yeah. Not necessarily have lost your mind and just be able to. And has family and it. All of it. Those, you know, aspects.

Jennifer Norman:
I just. I really, you know, I sit back and I think about her and how truly incredible she is, and all the other ones were incredible of their own rights. But I just, you know, just want to give, like, such major props to Madonna for still doing what she's doing into her 60s. And. Oh, it's. It's amazing. Absolutely amazing.

Ricky Rebel:
I have a signed photo of Madonna right here. She says to Ricky, all my love. XO. Love Madonna. She gave it to me on my birthday because we were assigned to her label. She's a very vulnerable person. I think that's what I most attracted to about Madonna. She's a very sensitive, vulnerable person, and so am I.

Ricky Rebel:
I hide it well a lot of times, but. And so does she. I cover up a lot, and I think that she covers up a lot, but it comes out all the time. You could hear it in her voice. You could hear in her music. And like you said, said, standing the test of time. There's a reason for that. Like, she's just the hardest worker imaginable.

Ricky Rebel:
And, you know, she's a genius. Madonna's a genius. Best concert I've ever seen in my life. I went to The Celebration Tour. 67 years old or whatever. How old she is? 65. Best concert I've ever, ever seen in my whole life. And I think the thing that I really hope that she tackles this new record is like, this real exposing of ageism, because I feel like she's exposed homophobia, she's exposed racism.

Ricky Rebel:
She's put a, you know, But I think her new...

Jennifer Norman:
Her sexual liberation, frankly, yeah, yeah.

Ricky Rebel:
To liberate. She's done a lot for women feminism and people feeling empowered to be sexual, to be themselves. But I think the new thing that I think she really wants to dismantle is ageism. And, you know, that's a big one. And I think that we all kind of struggle with that secretly or openly. The idea of, you know, being too old or being too old to continue on or in this industry or. Old equals ugly, you know, this thing because people are, you know, we're terrified of getting wrinkles and this.

Ricky Rebel:
That she put a real magnifying glass on that and forced the world to look at it, to put a mirror up to. To us during her show and focusing on the ageism that we all have inside of us. And I loved it so much. I'm, like, in tears, you know, during her show. But it's people like her and people like me who are saying, like, hey, you know, you're beautiful at any age, and you can continue. No one's telling you to stop. Only you can tell yourself to stop. Is a tree ugly because it's old, or is it beautiful because you think it's beautiful, because you say it's beautiful? Is your grandmother ugly because she's old? No, she's beautiful.

Ricky Rebel:
People are beautiful and can be beautiful at any age. But that's something that I think is the final frontier for Madonna, that. Because I feel like she's done a lot to combat homophobia, like I said, and all the other things. I think that's the one that she's going to get on this record. I hope she does, anyway. I think it'd be really cool.

Jennifer Norman:
I do, too. And, you know, that's one of the reasons why I, you know, I started The Human Beauty Movement is to really help others to see that beauty is not just superficial. It's not just about the way that somebody looks because we can cast so much easy judgment. I think it's just a, you know, it is a human nature, and it's a trait to just make quick assumptions about somebody's virility, somebody's energy, somebody's prowess, somebody's intelligence, somebody's social status, you know, wealth, all of that, just from how you look at somebody in a nanosecond, we can make those judgments. But I think that when we start to get to know each other deeper, hence this podcast and other avenues that I'm, you know, going forward with to get behind all of that and to really peel back those layers and say, gosh, for me, beauty is...

Jennifer Norman:
I almost equate it to appreciation because you can't go to an art, you know, a museum and say, oh, that's a beautiful painting, without appreciating it. You can't really, you know, see beauty in somebody unless you appreciate them, like in totality. Like, your grandmother is beautiful because you appreciate everything that she stands for. It's not just looks. And granted, it's beautiful to be able to age. Yes. It's beautiful to be alive.

Jennifer Norman:
It's beautiful for us to see flowers and trees and all of these things when they first start and when they're not. And we have so long glorified that portion of life which is in what we call full bloom, like when it flowers, when we are fertile. And it's definitely something evolutionary. But now it seems like I can't tell how old anybody is anymore. It feels like we're clearly crashing, like between hair dye and Botox. I don't know how old anybody is anymore.

Ricky Rebel:
Oh, yeah.

Jennifer Norman:
Peptides, Peptides, fillers, GLPs. I like, everybody looks... exosomes. Exosomes. Everybody looks amazing to me. So I'm like, if so anybody ever asked me, you know, how old is that person? I'm like, I have no idea. They look, you know, it almost doesn't matter anymore.

Ricky Rebel:
So I think that we're going to live a lot longer, too.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. Yeah.

Ricky Rebel:
I think we're going to live to hundreds plus now.

Jennifer Norman:
I think there's so much, you know, medical genius, all of the new technologies that are coming out with, you know, whether it's supplements or whether it's new forms of just the way that we take different kinds of drugs. I mean, it's all about longevity now. I guess the other question is, do you want to live that long? Like, how long is too long to be like, okay, I think I'm done. I think a lot of people will say, as long as I feel healthy and not in pain, as long as I'm not suffering and. Or maybe dementia, Alzheimer's. A lot of people say that then it gets harder to feel like that might be a worthwhile life, which, you know, can be definitely debatable as well. But, yeah, it's definitely interesting that people are making choices and, you know, choosing to show up as they want, want to. And I think that's wonderful.

Jennifer Norman:
I feel like, you know what? If you want to do all that, it's kind of like wearing makeup. It's kind of like styling your hair differently. If you want to wear something, wear it. If you want to, you know, have a persona. Have it. I am curious though, if you think that there's a great divide between your external persona and who you are at home? Do you think that there's a difference? You strike me as being a lot more soft spoken than I would have ever expected you to be.

Jennifer Norman:
Just as a start.

Ricky Rebel:
I know. I think people think of me being really sassy, probably. Yeah.

Jennifer Norman:
Like very like extroverted. Like, you know, just all 24 7, but, you know. Yeah, I. I'm one of those people that needs to shut it off. And I get my, you know, regeneration by just chilling and meditating and doing, you know, quiet things.

Ricky Rebel:
Well, I like to say like. Like inside my mind is a storm. So I like to be calm within the eye of the storm. I can't let myself get too much caught up in the storm itself.

Ricky Rebel:
So a lot of times I'm deliberately creating peace outwardly because there's a lot going on inwardly and I don't want to get wrapped up into it. But I do know how to turn it on too. Like, you know, the shove, like, you know, is stuff starts going down and I've been offered reality shows and like, you know, we think he's too quiet and then they put me in a scene with something and, you know, I. I do have a temper. I. You know, I. I could be quite the opposite of who I am right now.

Jennifer Norman:
Huh, stormy?

Ricky Rebel:
Yeah. Yeah. I could be like that sometimes. I'm Latina. I'm a Latin. So the fire comes out every now and then, then the passion. Yeah. But when I get on stage, I think that's more who I really am, to be honest.

Ricky Rebel:
You know, I'm very like. Intrepid is a good word to describe me, but I try to soften it. I try because it's. It's hard to be that way. And I. And I've stopped being that way for a couple years now. As much, it's been really good for me to not be as forceful and intrepid and competitive live and all of those other things. I'm like, I can't do this.

Ricky Rebel:
I can't live like that because I just think I. I really want to collaborate now. I'm into collaboration. I'm into like my number one goal now when I perform is not to be perfect. It's to have fun, period.

Jennifer Norman:
There you go.

Ricky Rebel:
I mean, really, that is my goal of all goals. Like, when I step off stage, I'm not like, did I hit that note? Did I. How did I look in the camera? Like, with that, did I wear the right thing? Did this pop off? Did I have a double chin on that? Did I? Now I stage and I'm like, how, how much fun did you have, Ricky? Did you have fun?

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, I love that.

Ricky Rebel:
And I'm like, that's a great honor. You know what I did? I had fun in that one moment when I did it and had fun when that song, that part of the song came on. I just like busted out and I had fun when that girl was like this and like, we were like having that moment together. So that's like my barometer that I'm working with now.

Jennifer Norman:
Are you paying attention to the audience or is that from within, from your own performance? How much is like the audience engagement and like you hearing them kind of getting into it or watching their reactions to things?

Ricky Rebel:
I love it. I love it. I feed off of their energy.

Ricky Rebel:
So I do, I do pay attention to their smiles and to their, like, screams and things like that.

Jennifer Norman:
If you're having fun. They're having fun, you know.

Ricky Rebel:
Absolutely.

Jennifer Norman:
They can feel you.

Ricky Rebel:
We did this show every month. It's called Diamond Rebel, the residency in Las Vegas at Deuce nightclub. We go there every month. So if you're in Vegas, come out to the show. It's fantastic.

Jennifer Norman:
All right.

Ricky Rebel:
Yeah, they have like the big LED walls behind us and it's just like a big nice setting to have fun and watch a really amazing pop show. I put on like a 20 minute set and she puts on her 20 minute set and then we have like guests, pop vocalists come on and it's just a great night.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, that sounds like a lot of fun. Yeah, Vegas here we come.

Ricky Rebel:
Yeah, it's wonderful. And we got a lot of big plans coming soon as well. We can't really talk about it, but, but like, big stuff.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, okay. I, I was going to pry, but I'll. I'll keep it sealed.

Ricky Rebel:
My destiny is to have fun with everyone, regardless of where they stand politically or anything, any of our differences, you know, just humanity is the number one uniter of all of us. And that's what I came here to do, is to write music for the world and to get us to have fun and to dance while we can with each other. And. And so I went into the whirlwind and I came out. I'm. I feel like I came out of it a much better person, much more humble than I was before. I had to get humbled but now I'm like, very appreciative of everything that's happening. I'm producing for a Netflix special, Netflix show coming out soon, a documentary, having music on that show, UFC show.

Ricky Rebel:
I have music and a kids film coming out soon. So I met a lot of people along the way who, who love me for who I am. And that was part of who I am, you know, that I do have in me a streak of like, do not put baby in a corner. Do not tell me I have to think like this in order to, you know, if I don't think that way about something or don't, don't do that. I. I'm, you know, I'm me, and... But now I have this very clear perspective of like, I gotta stay in my lane.

Ricky Rebel:
I really have to stay in my lane. And my lane is pretty sharp. It's pretty. It's kind of narrow, honestly. It's. It's fashion, it's music, it's art, and that's it. And when I do that, everything just like, blossoms like a flower, and then your garden grows.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. I feel like there's a strong difference in what you're saying between like, staying in your lane and, and healthy boundaries. And I feel like you're more of like in that place of healthy boundaries rather than feeling like you're boxed in. Because focus is beautiful. Focus is a beautiful thing. You know, you don't want to get derailed and distracted by all of these other things. And that's definitely not what we're talking about by just like, freedom.

Jennifer Norman:
When you really have enough freedom, you able to say, this is my passion, this is what I want. And I have the freedom to spread this joy, to really go after all of my talents and all of these things and really promote them in. In this way and funnel my energy to the best of its ability into those things which will benefit me because they lift you up and, and benefit your audience, your fans, all of that. Because that's really the true you. That's really the thing that, you know that. That energy that is really kind of binding you together with them and will stand the test of time.

Jennifer Norman:
Like all of these other things can, you know, kind of come and go and ebbs and flows. So that you did go through that and you learned something of it, of yourself and other people too. And ultimately, I mean, I think that it brings you back to this really strong place, which is this gorgeous music, this gorgeous fashion, this gorgeous personality, all of those amazing, amazing things that you represent. So Bravo for that.

Ricky Rebel:
Thank you, Jennifer.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, gosh. Well, Ricky, I feel like we could probably go another hour or two, but I'm going to bring us to, to a close by asking you my three final questions. I ask these of every, of every guest that I have. The first one is what makes you beautiful?

Ricky Rebel:
Oh, my God, that's such a great question, Jennifer. What makes me beautiful? I really know how to love. I love in a very visceral way. I can express my love through my hands and I touch people, people. I transmit energy to them. I can heal people in that way, which makes me a great lover.

Jennifer Norman:
Okay, boys and sometimes girls, you heard it, you heard it here.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. You get down into the meat, the sinew. Oh, that's a good one.

Ricky Rebel:
Yum, yum. Yeah, that's why I'm beautiful.

Jennifer Norman:
I love that. My second question is, what does it mean to be human?

Ricky Rebel:
Kindness, Being kind is, is human. Michael Jackson was one of the kindest persons I've ever met. And that was the first thing, that big label that went on top of his head when I saw, you know, when you meet people, you got this little thing on top of them that they're, they're aura. He was the most human person I've ever met. That's being kind to people.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. And yourself, first and foremost, human. And then my last question is, what is one truth that you live by?

Ricky Rebel:
Biggest truth that I live by. And the most powerful truth that I've ever known is that I know it sounds dark, but that life is meaningless and there is no hope. But the reason why that is so powerful is because if life has no meaning, then I have the power to create what everything means, and so do you. And if hope doesn't really exist, then we can, can, you know, create it. We can create hope. In any moment, we can create meaning that is empowering to us. If something happens to you, what does it mean? Well, you have the power to make it mean whatever you want if you believe that things are meaningless.

Jennifer Norman:
That's amazing.

Ricky Rebel:
That's where I try to live.

Jennifer Norman:
It reminds me of the quote that I love so much, which is, 'The meaning of life is to give life meaning. The purpose of life is to give life purpose.' And there's really nothing more than that. So I, I feel like they're very similar to what you said. Yeah.

Ricky Rebel:
Yeah. Because imagine if we lived in, you know, every day and we, you know, things happen to us and we can make it, make it mean something beautiful like what you're doing with this podcast and what you're doing with your life, you're finding the beauty within the world because life is about. About that. Like the possibility is always there because there's this big empty void of nothingness. So the possibility of anything is there. So when you create this possibility of beauty, the more beauty you're going to find.

Jennifer Norman:
Yes. Yes. You nailed it. Oh my goodness, Ricky, what a joy. Thank you so much for everything. Your artistry, your honesty. This has been such an unexpected, pleasantly unexpected conversation with you.

Jennifer Norman:
It's just been an absolute joy. I've loved it to the fullest, truly.

Ricky Rebel:
Me too. I really appreciate you.

Jennifer Norman:
Thank you. And to everybody listening, maybe the takeaway is isn't to be louder, it is to be truer. Think about this conversation. I think we whispered more than anything. It's really about being yourself and owning your own voice to the parts of you that you don't think fit neatly into anyone else's expectations. I think that the moment that you stop performing who you think you should be is that moment when you start becoming who you truly are. If you loved this episode, do share it. Subscribe and with someone who needs that permission to be themselves. And don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss what's next. I'm Jennifer Norman and this is The Human Beauty Movement. I'll see you in the next episode.

Jennifer Norman:
Thank you for listening to The Human Beauty Movement Podcast. Be sure to follow, rate and review us wherever you stream podcasts. The Human Beauty Movement is a community based platform form that cultivates the beauty of humankind. Check out our workshops, find us on social media and share our inspiration with all the beautiful humans in your life. Learn more at thehumanbeautymovement.com. Thank you so much for being a beautiful human.