Episode 64: Christina Carlson - Choosing Spirituality and Self-Love Over Religion and Fear

0:07 Hello, beautiful humans. Welcome to the human Beauty movement podcast. I'm your host Jennifer Norman. Throughout my life, I've been a lover and a seeker of all things beauty from art and dance to cosmetics, and fashion to music and nature. But through my own personal Journey. I've come to discover what I believe is the most beautiful thing. In the universe, the beauty of the human soul, on this podcast, I sit down with beautiful humans from all corners of Of the globe and all walks of life to learn how they are living their own unique. Soul Beauty out loud. You'll hear from game changers. Rebels with gray causes stages odds, feeders and Valiant Warriors who fall down seven times and get up eight. This is the podcast where abundant energy flows and supreme wisdom is bestowed, get ready to enjoy the inspiration. Hello, beautiful humans.

1:04 Welcome to the podcast where I have juicy. Relations with beautiful humans for your weekly. Dose of inspiration, I'm Jennifer, Norman founder of the human Beauty movement and your host. So now, I have a question for you, have you ever lived your life and then felt like everything was just wrong. Either. You felt like you just didn't fit in and there might be something wrong with you or maybe there was something wrong with everybody else. But mostly we feel like there's something wrong with us. And if you felt like that, I can relate. And so can my next guest, let me introduce you to Chris. Gina Carlson. Christina is a self relationship, coach speaker, facilitator, and the host of the podcast, bitches witches, and queers, Christina works with those who feel like they have had to hide their messiness to belong and she supports answer create lives with internal safety Community belonging and confidence.

1:58 Welcome Christina. Hi, I'm so happy to be here. Now, this is going to be one of our juiciest conversations. I know it. First, I would love to hear all about your fascinating background. You have to tell us about it. Yeah, so I was raised in the Midwest of the United States Turtle Island and I was raised in st. Louis if you're familiar with Turtle Island and the United States, it's in the middle. The heart and what is known for a lot of people as the Bible builds, I was raised deeply Evangelical. And by that, I mean I was home-schooled until High School which then I went to a very, very small Christian private school. My Writing class was 25 people, the school included, my brother and sister as well.

2:40 It was very tight-knit community. And from a very early age, I like honestly, my first memories, I just felt like I wasn't safe. There was this overarching feeling of this world isn't meant for me and it wasn't like the I don't know if you're familiar with like the Christian ideology in this world not of it. There's a separation of like we're different than the world but it wasn't that it was that I didn't feel like I fit Anywhere because the church community that I was a part of I could play a role. I was a very good girl. I figured that out. By the time I was five years old and had like The Logical cognitive functioning to mask and hide, what didn't fit? But there is always this part of me that was just like, I didn't quite fit, and I didn't know why.

3:23 And one of the earliest memories I had, was my mom bless her heart. Did a homeschool camp for us called caption Eckrich Harrison, which is made up of all of our names mashed together. And one of the things we had to do was make our And in the morning and I made my bed and my sister and brother made their beds and my mom gave them five stars and me three, I had I started weeping and like my mom was like, oh my God, you know, it's okay. Like, you can have five stars or whatever, but clearly looking at our beds mine wasn't made as well. And like, that seems like such a small thing, but I didn't realize until this year that I have ADHD and I was always told that I was just to be student or just an okay student and my siblings were raised for being incredibly intelligent.

4:08 So there's this part of me that was really struggling to focus, really struggling to do and focus on tasks the way that came really naturally for my siblings. So there was that area of like, I don't fit, I can't do enough to fit into this system or this world, or this mold. And so, there's that layer. And then there was also this intense fear of going to hell. I really I got saved. Maybe like 50 times. You know what's between Age 5 and like, 18. You know, every time there was a chance, I was just like, praying the sinner's prayer and like, walking up to the Altar. And for those of you who don't know, it's like this, making sure that I was safe, is what I was doing and really combining that with fear related OCD.

4:50 I was like, constantly confessing my sins, I would go to bed and then like if I woke up in the middle of the night, I was confessing and God forgive me for anything. I can't think of right now because of my brain. Like, I don't know. I often like to say I didn't take a full breath until I turned 27 years old. Old, mmm. And then something happened where I allowed myself to let go of the fear of hell, and the concept of hell. And it was like, I felt the breath go into my body. I was in a yoga class and I just like, this is what it feels like to breathe. This is what it feels like to be human and I had no idea. So there was a journey like, through all of that but that's kind of my beginning point of starting to like, move out of that and into something different.

5:32 Wow, thank you so much for being so forthcoming with your back. Grand and with your medical condition. I can appreciate how scary things are when you don't have ADHD or add or any other type of neuropathy. But when you have that on top of it it just escalates the fear and that's truly what it is. Isn't it? When you go to these kinds of churches and granted there are some really lovely wonderful people with really great intentions and really good-hearted people but unfortunately what happens is it just Causes you to be filled with so much fear and so you live your life out of fear rather than living it out of love or Joy or ecstasy all of those things. And yeah, certainly there were times where because I had a very similar background.

6:23 I remember being in dire panic in the middle of the night. I would wake up and think that I missed the second coming of Christ. And, you know, if I heard a noise, I'd be like everybody's gone, and I'm the only one left and those kinds of things when you're a tween. When you're just a child and you're filled with so much fear that you're just going to burn in the afterlife and I was so you know it's very compelling it's really scary. It's very difficult way to live and really know how to be fully human and to really take those breaths and to feel free. Yeah I deeply care you and that it is Terror. That is really hard to explain to someone who doesn't have a form of PTSD or adolescent trauma.

7:06 Because it feels like, actually, like you're dying and the world is ending, and you feel really helpless in the middle of that Beyond like, you know, quoting the scripture over that you were told to repeat or like, you know, calling out the name of Jesus or whatever it was. You were told, would make you feel better, or help you. You're really doing everything that you can in those moments to like help yourself right? Then you got into your 20s. You say that you know during yoga you took your first breath. Tell us about what that transition was like what was going on. Yeah, so I actually In a long-term emotionally abusive relationship for about seven years when I was living in Hawaii. And so I went to school there and we moved back to st. Louis for a year and we're like planning to get married. We're talking about our engagement. But when I was in Hawaii and we were dating, I started to take a hula class and I hadn't danced since I was 11. And I was told that like, my body was not supposed to be sexual and I wasn't supposed to be stumbling and causing you know, situations for other people. Like I was Possible for that.

8:07 So I sort of like locked up that part of my body and then when I was living in Hawaii and one of the ladies at my church taught hula class and I like watched for like a year before I like allowed myself to join. But I swear the first time I stopped into that class and she was like, no get lower and this is how you move your hips. And she put her hands on my hips. She's like, you move like this. And I was like, it felt like a flood of permission. Like I was just given permission by a woman in the church to move my hips. And so I like to Kate and ran with it and I had no idea at the time. The impact that would have on me, but what it did was like, I don't know if you know this from like doing yoga, like we store that tension in our bodies, right?

8:48 We store trauma in our bodies, we sort of wounds in our bodies and it was like moving my hips in the form of hula. Released that. And it was just, I had like my own like many sexual Awakening while like still shaving myself for it, but it was just like, all of these feelings. All of my Sensations in my body, my body had A semblance of safety within it through hula and I was like, now we know how to feel good now you're going to know what feels bad and so I started to feel sick around my boyfriend who I was dating every time I thought about us getting married, I started feeling nauseous. I kept like battling with anxiety over whether I should be with him or not because I was so miserable and it was like a whole year later. We were talking about getting engaged one night and I was like, I feel like I'm gonna die. Like I just can't, I can't live so I was like, I need it. Pink.

9:37 And then taking a break. I met with a therapist. And she was like, this is emotionally abusive. And I was like, yeah, I can't do that. And to me it's not surprising that you would come from an Evangelical Church, that was so dominating of your emotions and move into an emotionally abusive relationship. It seems just like a Continuum of what might have been appropriate for you and then yeah, when you're discovering yourself, then all of a sudden, the veil is lifted to a certain degree and you realize, oh, this isn't the way, it's Supposed to be right? Yeah, I could actually feel the lack of safety and my body and you're exactly right. Like, I compared him to God because of how he related to me was how God related to me. It was the same so I couldn't see it as abusive because it was what I was told was the ultimate love. Yeah.

10:24 And that's very confusing. And I also want to just pause because it is so profound when I was part of this church, which sounds quite similar to what yours is. My family was not as strict. From that perspective and so we would have pool parties. I would invite all of my classmates over and there were classmates that were forbidden to wear bathing suits. And so they would get into the pool in all of their clothes because their bodies were considered shameful and they had to be covered up. And they just weren't allowed. There were weddings and parties where there was no music. There was no dancing because dancing was considered a sin. It was considered, you know, hedonistic and that you were losing control of your physical being Being in that perspective. And so all of a sudden coming into a different culture where it's just this Liberation must have been just so I can't even describe it.

11:16 I mean can you tell us like what that must have been like, for you? Yeah, so you're exactly right. I was the girl who was like, I need to wear a t-shirt over my swimsuit. That was what all of our summer camps were like we had prom without dancing like we didn't have music like it was very, very limited and I decided to go to the Bible College, I did because they had a looser dress code. You that was one of my deciding factors because I was like, I have to be able to wear what I want. It's like, just very picky about what I wear always. And I was tired of having to decide to wear three shirts. Just wanted to wear one, but when I went to Hawaii, it took a while. I lived there off, and on, for about five years and the space that we were in was, I mean, it was mostly white people but they had some Hawaiians at the church and on staff and the woman who taught who lets me was her Hawaiian and born on Kawaii and was someone that I just sort of gravitated to mushy was like a very no-nonsense kind woman. Like she told me straight up, she's like, kind of worked in a similar office area.

12:19 And she was like, if you want something done, you got to sit down and talk story with me. And so, every day I would go in there and like, sit with her and talk, and it was like this grandmotherly presents that I hadn't experienced with that much affection ever, and it really felt familial and that's why I feel like I felt safe to do. Hula with her but this was still within like, okay. So you know how like change is hard, right? Like you go from one thing to another and it's like, you know, there's stuffs in there. I needed a little like baby step of safety and I took a lot of those in my journey towards like becoming more of myself. This was one of those, I wouldn't have been able to take a hula class if it wasn't in the church, but because it was in the church, it was like here's a tiny bit of Liberation. Yeah, that's you know, digestible for you and it was a Gateway of I know.

13:06 I love like that. I had not known was possible to have that experience within the church Community made me see, that family could be seen different, like we could stick with our with our family. With our I know we could stick with that and that could still be considered Christian. So it's sort of expanded my view of God, a little bit in a way that would just continue expanding through traveling to South America and through like actually being like, Oh my God, there's good people everywhere and I had no idea. And so tell us like you left the dude right. Obviously, they know that wasn't for you. You realize that there was more to life than what you had been told or what you've had believed and then you are on this.

13:48 Perhaps an exploration of finding yourself? Yeah. Yeah. I was very broken. Like I like I mentioned earlier I was like I thought of myself as really stupid because of like having difficulty in education. So like when I went to college Health, to how your siblings were treated and that The grades are the stars that they got. Yeah. Yeah. So like what I met people in college like my boyfriend who saw me as intelligent, I clung to that and I thought that that only existed within him. So it was very, very difficult when I did break up with him. It was like losing a really big part of my identity and I had to start over in a lot of ways and that sort of you know, like a lot of breakdowns do. It's sort of like creates the groundwork the foundation for like or just the dirt maybe and the ashes of Something to get curious and I was living with my brother and his wife at the time and we all sort of started to question some of the things that we were told I was working at a daycare and I had a student who had two moms and there was just a part of me that was like, that can't be bad.

14:55 Like there's some of the most loving parents I've seen like that. Can't God can't be mad about that. And so I started like sort of becoming an advocate and what I noticed because I had been doing hula and like feeling into the Asians of my body was that I felt unsafe in any space, where a group of people were not included, we're not free until all of us are free audre Lorde like that is so on a body level, I felt that. And so I would walk into a church try to find a church community and then I would see the other ring that they would do to a particular group didn't matter, which I would start to feel that. Again, I feel like, well this can't be safe because if they're not safe, I'm not safe. And it became so that like I just Quit going.

15:37 My brother actually, wrote like a Manifesto so my parents about why he wasn't going to church anymore? You can imagine how well that went over and I just jumped on the bandwagon. I was like yeah. Okay, me too. Me too me, too. It was like, it wasn't until I fully left that I was like, oh I'm bisexual, like, of course, I felt this internally. It was a really he's full realization for Or me because friend came out to me and they described it and I was like, oh, that's a thing. I was just told myself that I was straight because I did have a traction for men. So I discounted, my attraction for women.

16:18 I just erased my own experience essentially because I didn't know there was a different, I know I could be holding me as soon as I heard the name. I was like, oh that's me and we're even immediately open about your sexuality or did it take time for you to tell your family about it. Yeah. I mean, I was immediately open with the people. I was currently hanging out with but I was out of the church at the time and I was close with my siblings. So I told them, I told the internet, I didn't tell my parents until like a year ago, but they weren't really a part of my life. They sort of really stepped back from us in really Extreme Ways after that letter that my brother sent and I'm gonna go with the letter sent. I want to get the timeline 2016.

17:01 Well, okay. Alright, so several years. Yeah, we've tried and worked. Like maintain a civil relationship with them. They're coming to see my daughter's birthday this weekend. So there's like a general familiarity and kindness that we've sort of moved back into which were proud of. But there's an idea within that culture that if you're close to someone who is left the faith, you're in danger of losing yours because they'll plant a seed of Doubt within you, which, you know, is probably true. But I'm truly, there's a whole lot of compassion for them as well, because, They felt that this was the right thing for themselves. They still believe this is the right thing for themselves. They believed that this was the right thing for their children for the sake of soul and you know, beliefs are powerful.

17:47 And so, whereas your beliefs Arden and the way that you chose to conduct yourself and your lifestyle is completely. Right. For you, it's hard for that to be accepted and so there's always an extension of Grace and it takes time. And if it neat means separation for those who are listening, who are at odds with your A family with your parents with Grandma Grandpa, whoever it is, even if it's close, friends, it's okay. I mean, there could be still love there, but it doesn't mean that you, you know, have to go about things the same way as you did before. You know, if your trajectory is different now and you found your own path, you've liberated yourself and you found your own way. And you feel like you're living your most, truest fullest self than, that's what's important and then nothing. But love and Goodwill to everybody else. Yeah.

18:34 Absolutely. And I think it's incredibly important. Courting. The something that I feel like has come about in me through this journey is that I don't have to understand to love and respect someone as human and to see them as deserving of dignity and goodness. Absolutely. You know, like they made the best choices that they could they still are? I think I think everyone is doing the best they can with what they've been given. That's just, we are all trying to exist here, like, on a floating Rock in space. Like, we are doing our best and I think It is true of them as well. It's just that we've taken different paths in that journey and that can be really hard to reconcile. Yeah, I have heard from a number of people who feel that, you know, somebody crossed them or somebody did something to they say to them or, you know, something happens.

19:24 And it's like, I am never speaking to that person again. We are net, like, a completely cut off ties. No forgiveness, nothing like that. And so there's like this Grudge and there's this judgment that that person is Dad or that person is just you know just written off and I love hearing the statement like you are not your worst mistake like even criminals who have done atrocious, atrocious things. I mean, they are not their worst mistake and so everybody is deserving of dignity and Grace, you know, no matter what the situation is, this cancel culture that has happened. Lately is really, you know, it's disappointing, and it's tough. And, you know, I believe that everybody is worthy of redemption. If, you know, if you choose it but Again, it doesn't mean that you have to be best friends. It doesn't mean that, you know, everything has to go back to the way it was.

20:12 It's just a matter of. Yeah, I honor you enough to let you live your life and I'm going to live mine and let's all be a, you know, be happy in our own way. It's so interesting like a lot of the root of my own spiritual practice especially in the past three years has been about leading into self-acceptance and I know you speak about this. A lot in your work as well. In order to move forward, we really have to be able to With what is within us and with non-judgment, like we just have to learn to be with it. And in doing that, it becomes more natural to extend that to other people. Because without it, like, if there's a limit to your own Grace with yourself, there's a limit to your grace, with other people.

20:55 If there's a limit to your grace, with other people, there's a limit to your grace with yourself. Absolutely. It's very synchronicities and like everything outside is a reflection of what's going on within it is And it's like, we have so many barriers to being able to see ourselves and that in and of itself is a intention is a spiritual practice to be able to like be with that because we're so used to judging or not, seeing for the sake of our own safety. And because we have such limited capacity as a culture because of what's happened to us. And, because of what we've done, we've made choices that we need to reconcile and we can't do that unless we actually look at what we've done without judgment, but just actually seeing it and being With causing harm, doesn't mean we're judging ourselves. It just means that we actually have to take a look at it. So, speaking of that, I mean, there was a point after you started to become liberated that you decided I want to help other people as well.

21:49 That might have gone through something similar or who have just a difficult time accepting themselves and relating to themselves. And so here are certified life coach and you're a certified energy code. Can you tell us what the difference is between those two? And what is it that you do to help others? Yeah, absolutely. So I studied life, coaching through beautiful, you coaching Academy in Australia, and that is a very practical, beautiful ethical approach to coaching that focuses on questions and mindset and getting to the heart of the matter through curiosity and non judgement and basically sitting down with someone and really holding space is the best way to describe it. Their focus is on Integrity based leadership. So allowing and believing the person in front of you. Your client is Every bit as Sovereign to choose things for their life and not stepping in and rescuing really being a mirror reflecting back.

22:43 What's been said to you and showing them their goodness in that process energy coaching I studied with Sora shelling through devoted energy coaching school, and the focus is similar and that we're holding our clients as Sovereign, but we are going into energy space so we'll do as well chat a little bit. What's on your heart? I intuitively follow the breadcrumbs Surah says to find out what is really a Thread underneath that's wanting to come forward because you know, we always are dropping hints of what really matters to us whether we even know it or not. So as a coach I'm following my intuition on that and pulling them out and then we see them together and then we will go into energy space or liminal space or that energetic body together with your permission and we explore together and allow your body in your wisdom, to bring forth what you need to hear.

23:31 And so can you give us an example like when you say, follow the breadcrumbs because I know that people are going to be like, this might be a little scary or how do I do that? Or what does that mean? And yeah, there are surface. It's almost like the onion and you're peeling back layers of the onion and so what is it? That somebody might be projecting on the surface and what might be at the heart of the matter when you're following those breadcrumbs. And then getting to that thing that perhaps they themselves don't even see but need reflected back by a such as yourself. Yeah. So for example like a client came to me last week. I think it was and They're like, I want to I think we can talk about money and explore that. And I was like, okay, you know, tell me what's going on with money, big topic.

24:14 Yeah, big topic, right? So she starts talking about money and she's sharing like and this and this and then because I feel like I really want to be doing blank and then she keeps talking about money and I was like, hold up, let's explore that a little more. Like why do you think you should be doing that like what's underneath there? And so she's like, well, I feel like I should be English because I don't know. Like, I don't know why I think I was like, okay, where have you heard that before? Like, where did this message come from? Can we explore backwards? You felt this feeling before? So, we'll boil that down into, like, I need to be productive, and there's this belief, like, if I'm not productive, I'm not worthy. So, we uncovered that and then we'll take a minute and go into your body, close your eyes.

24:56 We'll do a body scan when I bring up this phrase, where do you feel that in your body? What's the sensation are? Their colors are their images? Are there other phrases that come up? When I I say that other stories that feel loud. And so, we'll go into that. And then I'll ask your permission and we'll go into energy space, which will do, very easily, feels sort of like a meditation. And then we'll step into the space of like you being in a neutral position to what's going on. So you're not revisiting an issue, you're not reliving anything. You are simply observing from an objective standpoint, you're kind of outside of what's actually happening in. You're looking at it and we're observing that together. And in that, we're just like, what's going on here?

25:36 What is this thing? What is this part of your body? Want you to see? Want you to know right now? What are they showing about? You sometimes will pull up a version of you who's believing this and and your ideal self or a version of you that's moved past. This, what is the difference between these two images? And what do you notice? And sometimes that alone? A person's energy just takes over and starts to heal them and starts to move things around for them and usually there's a message. So whatever that messages that comes through for them, is the breadcrumb that they are then walking with In between our sessions because what happens is like it's like getting a massage or getting energy. Work done, you're going to have like, you drink a lot of water. It's like that. Push it out and then just walk with it as in like not like Focus.

26:19 Have to think of it. Have to figure it out, but just hold this phrase with you see what else comes up for you in the journey and you'll start to notice a thread of things, starting to heal, you starting to move you in a direction of, I don't have to be productive to be worthy. You'll start to notice that the things that are coming. Ben, your life, your daily life. And in our sessions are related to your worthiness or the surrounding aspects of that. Wow. It sounds pretty cool. For those of you who are interested in hitting up Christina for a session do. So I'm going to put her contact information in the show notes and so she will be available and maybe you can uncover your own breadcrumbs, we'll see, we'll see. Yeah, I actually had discovered that, you know, I had this pain in my shoulder recently and I was like, what is going on and I knew Ooh, that I was like lifting heavy bags and stuff. And then when I went to a woman and she was like, what kind of baggage are you really carrying?

27:12 And I was like, oh girl friends. We don't have enough time for me to know that, all that exercises. And my shoulder feels so much better. Gotta love that. Brilliant single question that your you see me? Yes, it's so important now that you're, you know, you're living an abundant life, it seems like you, you know, have really kind of moved on. You also have a child, you have to tell me about this next phase of your life and you know how things have been going. So yeah, I'm sure to post about this later today but like the more I know the less. I know, the more curiosity and questions I'm living in rather than like answers and like my brain wants to know more and I'm really smart I know a lot but I still Like, when it comes to things, it's just like, I don't know, we'll just have to see. Like, I feel like my spiritual practice is Letting Go and surrendering to what is the really truly practicing being fully present in mindfulness and meditation in yoga in like playing with my daughter in these spaces that like it's just an ongoing thing and I learn everyday like, oh that's like I'm triggered by this.

28:31 That's so interesting. I need to be with this and I feel like The hardest thing and also like it's only hard because I'm so used to being distracted by work and by trying to fix things. The hardest thing is to just be in the space of noticing what I'm doing when I'm doing something, I don't want to be doing instead of immediately judging it being like, I'm going to fix this. I'm going to change it. It's actually just be like, I was very rude. Ouch. Yeah, I know when I started to have my own, you know, An Awakening and come into my own Liberation. It's almost as if you are starting over.

29:11 Like I almost felt like everything that I knew before was upside down and inside out and backwards like it's almost like you were seeing the world with fresh eyes and you have to learn how to do everything over again. But in this new way of seeing and thinking and being and for those of you who are going through it now and it's like they call them at like Ascension pain. So I suppose then you feel a little bit like a And you're feel like, you know, you're just like a little bit floaty, that's natural. It's definitely something that happens. And so yeah, listening to your body understanding and listening to that Small Voice, which helps you to stay present and to stay aware. And to notice more than judge, more than trying to kind of follow others in what they're doing and saying, well, they must be doing this, and they must be right, and I'm not sure if I know anything, it's you know, you're interviewing has a lot, a lot of knowledge and So yeah, taking those moments of meditation to get quiet and to hear and to really truly listen to what your soul is telling you is valuable and it's really a good practice to get into. Yeah.

30:18 And not judging your judge Venus. Yeah. Like that's the layer though. Girl friendly. I needed judgey upon judgmental of Han judgmentalism. I know that was a habit to break for sure. Tina Kraus. It thank you so much for joining me on the show today it An absolute pleasure to get to know you. Thank you so much for having me with this is been amazing. Thank you for listening to the human Beauty movement podcast. Be sure to follow rate and review us wherever you stream podcasts. The human Beauty movement is a community based platform. That cultivates, the beauty of humankind, check out our workshops, find us on social media and share our inspiration with all the beautiful humans in your life. Learn more at the human Beauty.

31:03 Movement.com, thank you so much. So much for being a beautiful human.