Episode 44: Rach Wilson - Special Needs Parenting

0:07 Hello, beautiful humans. Welcome to another episode of Role Models juicy conversations with beautiful humans. I'm Jennifer Norman founder of the human Beauty movement and your host, this podcast thrives on your support. So if you like what you hear, follow us, latest reviewers and share this episode with everyone. You know, across your networks today. We're going to talk about special needs parenting my guest. Is Rachel Wilson, founder of divine relating and a relationship coach for couples with autistic and or special needs kids. Rach is a mum of, for her two youngest are both autistic and nonverbal with diet limitations. And since with challenges riches own life experience has inspired her to focus on supporting couples who have the highest break up rate couples with special needs kids. Welcome Rach.

0:55 Thank you so much for having me Jennifer. I am delighted. Oh boy. Now I am your target. Lions. I am a single mom of a special-needs child and I went through a Nikki divorce after my son, turned ten. So, I would love to know what made you decide to focus on couples with special needs kids. Well, I've got two as you've said to youngest, both got high needs, special needs challenges, and we went through what we have affectionately called. Hell, yeah. Hell yeah. We're both of them. Had the most challenges all at the same time and there was extreme sleep deprivation. Probation. Because my son was having these excruciating pain episodes multiple times during the night and then also during the day and we found for him, the easiest and best thing was to drive him because it's the car was a sensory environment so that help to soothe the emotional pain and it allowed us to see what physical pain when it stopped.

1:47 And at night time, it also made that the rest of the household sleep, because sometimes once he was awake, he was awake for hours. So when he's awake, I can't sleep. So for a 12 months, my husband and I did do Shifts. He did the usually the early shift which would last anywhere up to 3 a.m. but he might be tapping at 11:00 hour. Rule was when the second coffee gives out you have to tap the other person in. So we're both living on multiple copies of night time. We were both basically not sleeping next to each other. We were in massive survival mode and that doesn't even cover the level of survival ruin and then our youngest who was only 12 at the time was having these massive like are pick meltdowns and rages to the point of like really hurting herself and going at Me if I touched her at like can pull sensory meltdown, she would then go, it may try to gouge my eyes out with my earrings out. Scratch me, bite me and I've got scars from some of the scratches that I wasn't able to miss.

2:40 And the emotional toll that that has when you've got a child, that's just so angry and so upset. And you're the, you being battered and bruised by your kids, but you can't be mad at them. You know, the ongoing PTSD from. That is like we all know it's intense. So for 12 months, if I wasn't under my baby trying to help her through a rage, I was driving my son around trying to soothe his pain and then the in Trying to be a wife, trying to hold a household together, trying to take them to all of their appointments and try and see another doctor to try and find out what was wrong with my son, like the mental load, the physical load, the emotional load was ridiculously epic and my husband and I, we've been together. It'll be 22 years in December this year and going into hell year, we've had the strong relationship our entire life together.

3:26 We've got a lot of people that look to us for how a healthy relationship. Relationship works. And so going into, how are you? We already had a really solid foundation and even during that we both ended up feeling so alone we were struggling massively in as individuals and as a couple feeling like neither one of us was meeting the other person's needs but also not having anything in our tank to give the other person. There was a lot of deeper level conversations or blow ups for us that we had to kind of navigate on top of the load of Groundhog Day that we were living. And I knew all the way through that, there was a greater purpose and I just have to trust that, you know, we were going through this hell for some reason and here we are 18 months on from, how are you? It took a good probably at least 12 months for me to start to feel somewhat human because recovery from burnout, realistically like we all know we really do need three months of absolutely nothing.

4:20 No kids, no job. No nothing to recover from that level of burnout, but that's just not a reality. And we still have to be mum and take care of our kids to get to the other side. And in That I also, you know, we got the solutions, obviously, for our children which made the difference and then we had to rebuild ourselves as individuals and then we had to rebuild our relationship because I've been a coach for so long and I was a relationship coach for a long time. Before I had to take three years off during this period, I knew what we had to do and I had the tools and the support and what not to do that. And I realized through that that this is why so many couples, don't make it through the hardest times and challenges with their kids because they don't have the skills. They don't have the Our how they don't have or haven't been doing that the level of personal development that I've been doing for years to heal my own baggage, so that I don't have those level of triggers and reactions that many people do and knowing that during hell, yeah, I was not my best version of me. I was so depleted.

5:15 I was not able to consciously stop myself from being Snappy, from being unreasonable from sitting there. Going, why isn't he connecting with me? But then realizing well, I'm not connecting with him. Hang on a second. Yeah, you just don't have that capacity and if you Don't have the skills in the background then it makes it really difficult to stay on the same page through those periods. So as I finally kind of got to the did a lot of healing work on myself to recover from all the experiences and stuff that we went through and purposely made a conscious effort to reconnect with my husband to rebuild our relationship. And here we are at the, I'll say it, that's really at the fringes of thriving, because we've still got a ways to go and we still have challenges with our children. That mean sleep deprivation, a periods of time, but we as a couple.

5:59 In a much, much stronger and better place again. So I'm passionate about helping other couples to survive the hard times, but also to learn how to thrive Beyond them because our kids and us as special needs parents are the ones that need the stable and happy home the most and the most help. So I want to change that statistic as I can. And I've got the experience and I understand how hard it is. Yes. I can only, you know, talk about my experience as a Special Needs Mom. I remember right after I die. Diagnosis. The overwhelming feeling that I was a failure, you know. It'd be feeling that. No, oh my gosh, I did this. I somehow. Yeah, me and the guilts number one that comes about when there is that sort of a diagnosis that happens.

6:43 And then after just the feeling that you have these expectations, are you had these expectations of what your children would be like? And then the dissonance of knowing what the reality may be like, that also is a bit of self torture, that a lot of special needs of current. I Go through. I know that I went through a whole period of that as well and then never feeling like you're doing it right. Never feeling like you're doing enough, never always feeling like me. You know, you're just not cutting it as a parent or as a spouse or as a person, his needs to make a living. Yeah, everything just starts to really snowball on you and this overwhelming sense of anxiety and anxiousness. And I know I was diagnosed with PTSD myself and, you know, went on medication, which definitely helps needed to literally quit my job. A job and take time off and do that because that was helpful for me.

7:34 But yet it still did cause a lot of me trying to figure out what life meant for me. Going forward for sure is that similar to what your clients are coming to you for? What kind of clients are coming to you and what do they really most urgently needing when they come some of the regular Coleman stuff that they come to me with his the struggling because I'm not on the same page particularly when it comes to how to manage kids milk. Guns and their behaviors and discipline. I know for me I've got to neurotypical older children. So, I've been a parent. I've done this. So I know how to do this and then when these two came along I'm like, how do I do this? Because the parenting book had to go out the window, it doesn't work the same for these two, they have different needs.

8:16 They don't respond the same way my older two did. So when you've got two parents who are often is one in denial around the diagnosis, they don't know. No, it can't be that, we don't want it. There's a resistance to acceptance of the diagnosis so they Don't get involved. They which means it's usually the mother that's dealing with that's got the diagnosis. Then got the load of the all the doctors learning or doing all the research trying to work out, how best to help their child and there's a disconnect often not always with the fathers. And I think there's a lot of misunderstanding that happens in between. I mean, I think like you were saying when the diagnosis comes everybody handles it differently. So you felt a lot of guilt and took a lot of the responsibility and that's certainly been A lot of parents do. It's not just the mothers.

9:01 I've certainly my husband went through the same thing, but here's a response or outward reaction was quite different. So it's understanding that each person is going to have to go through denial grief, anger. Frustration, just around the diagnosis in itself, let alone when it comes to. How do we manage the kids? Is they do these behaviors that are my son's got an intellectual disability. We can't discipline him in the same way, we could discipline our other kids, it doesn't work the same. So you've a lot of parents who are utilizing the way they grew up, the role models, they had in their lives when I asked them, 90 probably 95%. I'm like, what role models did you grow up with? And did those show you how to be a loving caring, compassionate parent and also, you know, what would they like in their relationship more often than not? People come from broken, homes, divorces or parents that stay together, but we're extremely unhappy now, already super critical, or completely absent and all the baggage that gets created for every person in that. Is another conversation.

10:01 But most people try to parent based on the way that they grew up either. They're exactly the same or they do the exact opposite because of how their parents did it. And each person's experience of that is going to be different, which means each person is coming to their kids, with no not just on a different page there in different books. And they've got a reason like an underlying reason as to why they think they need to discipline in this way or why they think they need to be more lenient or whatever. Most couples are butting heads on the external surface level stuff. Tough and not getting deeper into, why do you think that why is that most important to you? Because I tell you the drivers for that need or desire has got a much deeper root in what they grew up with or experienced as being a child of the parents that they have.

10:46 So it's never as simple as well. He just needs to agree with me, or she just needs to be stronger. I meant, no, it's way more complicated and it's about how learning how to get on the same page and that's such a big thing. How do? You act as the team and that's often what I see as one of the deeper level issues in the relationship as a whole. But the symptom is We can't agree on whatever the XYZ is, that is fascinating. I know that with my son's father and myself, even despite the fact that we drifted apart, we were we are no longer together but our parenting was very similar, we were always aligned when it came to treatment or any kind of discipline or anything like that.

11:27 When it with respect to children and child raising Seeing and making decisions when it came to the sun in particular. However, however, there's a however, I know it's like you become estranged and you know, it's just like in other ways it's just a relationship is so strange and you become like roommates or it becomes very domestic and that whole interpersonal relationship becomes much more about transactions and Logistics and you know the groceries and that's another big one. It's another big ones and the reality is the load of our So kids is huge. It is too much for one person and it's often too much for two. So when you'll spread so thin and your load is quite big with your children, and their needs, there is a lot less that's available for self-care, which we know is important.

12:14 But then the spouse which is often below all of that. Let alone work has got to come in there somewhere because finances we everybody knows that, you know, having special needs kids is, there's an extra load of financial stuff, so it's the spouse really ends up quite low on the totem pole. Bowl. And if it's not right at the bottom, it's our self-care. That's at the bottom. When you got nothing to give, you've got nothing to give. So it's a big for me knowing how hard it was to survive. How are you? It's the little things it's because you find your stop doing the little things, and there's almost the most important because you're not getting to the big things. Like 66 doesn't happen for years at a time, when you've got such a high load and so low energy, and that's the realities and there's a reef in accepting.

12:57 That's the case. Women often are the ones that are Don't have the desire men. Wake up horny, so that I wish I wish. I really wish you didn't get some sexy time and get on with the tank, but that's just not how it works. So you've got that, you know, the big things are not happening. You've got to make use of the small things. So, it's sometimes, it's reprioritizing. Yes, our kids have their needs, but we have to change the way we think about it. In terms of is that absolutely crucial right now? Because sometimes the need of the relationship and the need of self is Ali more critical and I find a lot of parents in general women. Specifically are really good at and default to taking care of everybody else. Particularly the children before themselves and their relationship and then the relationship fails or falls apart and creates more stress.

13:50 When what you really need is the support and that teammate and that person to lean on. So, it is so critical to put a little bit of time and energy into it. It doesn't take much to your Standing in the kitchen, walk up behind him, give him a hug, like it takes two seconds, it's not hard. Although I know in the depths of survival you're so focused on the next action I have to take because you really don't even have the energy for that. So to think and have any awareness of anything or anyone else outside of that, it just doesn't exist and I get it, I get it. But it's understanding that when survival mode starts to lift, its these little things that bring you back together, that put the fuel back in the tank of the hope that will keep you both going for longer until you get to a more clearer Karma Waters. And you can really, then do the bigger stuff and that's the reality for us in our relationships with our special needs kids.

14:44 We can't do things the way we used to, we have to get along with a little, a lot less often. And then when we can, it's switching in our head, that this is a priority to come back to, to rebuild that connection to even just a simple thing. Hey babe, how are you actually doing right now? How do you really feel? Let each other then You're in this together and often what happens is they become islands and it's not even that conversation, there's not even that chicken, there's not those cuddles, it's not those, the little things and the little things are. So, so important, when you can't do the big things that's really a such a good reminder, because I know that when I was in the throes of PTSD and you're just overwhelmed and all you can think is this self absorption of this feeling like you are attracting your life, you're in a prison of your own making and you there's no way to get out because you have to care for your kids. You have to Survive.

15:33 You have to put bread on the table, all of these things. And so, you'll almost feel as though you're holding your breath and you forget that no this isn't really it, I have to think about every single moment, and if anybody tried to give me advice or say, oh, take time for you, you need to take a bubble bath. I would I would just punch identify it would cause me to just well up with anger and rage, you know. So and then one of the other things that I used to do, I would go on Facebook. There was a special needs parenting forum and it That wonderful place for people to events, not a great place to get advice that, we're things like that. As a lot of individuals have their own situations and will give advice from their own Vantage points.

16:14 And so it became something where you'd have to just, you know, take things with a bit of a grain of salt, but it was good if you needed to suspend for a moment. So I think that's a lot of that happening because it just ended its the double-edged sword. It's great because it's a place where you can vent and you get a lot of people going. Oh my God. Yeah, I hear ya. That's the same for me. Me too. She's good on one level but at the same time it often keeps a stuck in the almost of victimhood of that moment. It's not easy. I honestly, it's even as with all the skills and tools and everything that I have at my disposal in the depths and that the hardest parts of hell. Yeah. I couldn't even pick those up. Yeah. I wasn't even reaching out to people. I was just so like you said, self-absorbed and understandably.

16:56 So because in survival mode, it's the only way you can survive to just do the next thing. I Lucky enough to have a couple of people in my network, who truly understood and would reach out to me and get me on a call and say, how are you really doing? And then I'd be able to just let it all out and just have them there to go. I hear you. I'm listening that it is really hard, so you a little bit of that validation. But then at the end of it going, okay, how about we take me in the phone? Let's go for a walk. Ask care if you can just take 20 minutes to just stop. Now even the thought of asking my husband who I knew was struggling as much as I was to get 20. That's where I could just go lay in the swing outside and have someone talk me through just meditating. Mmm.

17:38 And there was a period of time with that was a Lifeline. Yeah. That just helped my system to slow down long enough to get a little bit of juice in it, where I didn't go in and I give him a hug and say thank you so much for giving me that 20 minutes with the best, any kind of. Now, what can I do for you beautiful? Yeah, there were times where I knew that. I'd have to go back to work and so I would get these jobs and I would literally be so exhausted from having No sleep and just emotionally Rod. I would just be crying myself, all the way to the office, but yourself into like that strong. You know, I work in beauty that Moscow. And if you put that mask on, you try to be brave, you try to be strong and then you fall apart at the end of the day and that would happen. They have to go.

18:20 Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes it became almost like you didn't want to show that you needed help. You didn't want you were almost embarrassed to ask other or tell other people what we're going on because wanted to give the impression that you could handle it. All because otherwise it might not think that you could do your job, then you could be depended upon XYZ, it's that alone. If a parent is like, oh, I have to go to a PTA meeting or, you know, something or I play with the kids, you know, people look at you and they used to look at you at work like, oh really, you're going to take time off because you're a parent at one particular job that I had there was this joke from the single people that said you know what, I'm just gonna get a fake baby and say oh you know what? I have to go home because my fake baby needs me because they felt like other people who had this was unfair.

19:00 Dren, it's unfair that they get to leave the It's just, I know times have changed but it was just, yeah, one of those things where it was a competition of who could show face in the office longer. Yeah. Exactly. And the hot pot is particularly with you. I think special needs. Is that people will say oh yeah that's hard but I truly don't understand. They do not understand the load. I want to say drain but the energy. It takes mentally just to stay on top of what is my kid need? What does like with mine? They both got dietary challenges and a, whole bunch of stuff I've just come out of Another six weeks off work because my son ended up in hospital with pneumonia, never simple for him. And then I've got so run down because we were dealing with him being sick and then in hospital for a week. But I got the same virus, he got, which then knocked me flat and then just as I was coming up, it turned into a chest infection and then just sighs coming up. Another one came again, I like damn it just like it's like the hits keep on coming and you know the average parent. Yeah.

19:55 That definitely have times like that but there's a whole other level that our regular parent doesn't experience and can't understand. And lucky was saying it's almost like we don't want to ask for help because we don't want to be seen as weak but then at the other side of that is, it's too much effort ask for help. It's actually too much effort when you're in the depths of it, to have talked to someone and try and explain things will ask for help. It just feels like it's another load on you, and it's like, it's yeah. And most of the times, they don't know what to say, or do you know exactly. I don't it's almost Trap please. It is. And one of the things that really helped me was actually posting about it. Eventually, I really did not spend much time on Facebook during how are you. But every so often on Just, you know, share the struggles that we were having and say, you know, this is kind of what it's like for us right now, and try to put a always, trying to put a bit of a positive spin on it because that's, you know, what you do. And what they did was actually helped create a bit more of a community around me.

20:46 People who started to go, oh, I hadn't realized that I hadn't thought about that. So I'm educating them through sharing without getting them on the phone and going. Oh my God is the hardest. Do I have friends that I can do that with but I found sharing it on social media and sharing both the struggles and what the reality is. Look like for us, physically, mentally, and emotionally is helping to create more of that understanding, particularly, as I've got more capacity now to even do that, or couldn't do it in the middle of hell, you and in having a community around me, but also Community both the understand. But also look for the solutions, I'll get people sending me Solutions and ideas of things that might be able to help or just suggestions. Or hey, how about we just grab a coffee? I'd love to get you out of the house for a bit. That's been really really helpful in middle of hell. You though, there's when you've got absolutely capacities socializing, it's too hard.

21:36 It's too much energy, too much people in too much to do with at home and it's okay. It's okay to have periods like that but when it stops the hard part is you get in a survival pattern and it's the pattern that has to change, otherwise the relationship and your life gets stuck in the survival pattern even if it doesn't have to be in survival mode. Yeah. One big lesson that I had to learn was boundaries even when it came to my own family because I happen to have a son who is Very chronically ill. He is non-mobile nonverbal lives on a life-support. He's on a ventilator, 24/7, and he's in and out of the hospital all the time. And I think that my family certain family members had a very hard time understanding, and it would tell me in so many words why I'm keeping him going and that was an extremely difficult here.

22:24 Because, you know, I, it's like, how can you ever tell somebody what they should be doing with their child especially when it comes to that subject? And so I understood where their compassion lied and you know, where their heart truly was. But the indication that I was being inhumane, in what I did, what my choices where I was a really tough thing for me. And so I had to choose to limit my and my son's exposure for certain. Yeah, to certain family members because it was a very painful period of time when we had through those kinds of discussions. I can only imagine, you know? Yeah, that stuff. Yeah, down. These are huge. They were definitely people that I kind of just stepped away from. I didn't even say anything.

23:07 It was just like, oh yeah, like you said I get their hearts in the right place, but that's actually not helpful for me right now. And choosing to only focus on what is helpful and what is supportive. It's okay to cut ties to create boundaries to say, no, we're not doing that to communicate. These are the topics of conversation that we are off limits because I don't have the capacity. In fact, even boundaries around our self care. And we sort of touched on this before. When people say, aye, You should do more self-care. Have you lived? My life? You have my load. Like, can you tell me where I can fit in some self-care? I actually had to redefine what self-care looked like, I don't really admit this very often but in the middle of hell, you I would go months without having a shower. Yeah, that's how bad it got. Because I would get up and get dressed in the middle of the night to go drive my son, and then I'd be on two coffees. So there's no way I was going to get back into bed and go back to sleep.

23:53 But then I'd get home at dawn after the sun rose. I actually made a point to go and watch the sunrise at the beach. My boy, would fall asleep in the car and I'd be caffeinated. So I'm like, you know what I need this. And it just roll on day after day after day and it'd be pointless. Like, I always have a shower tomorrow. Okay, maybe tomorrow, maybe tomorrow. Yeah. And that became the level of self-care was really, really low. So, as I started to get back into life. Again, one of the things I started to do was like, okay, self-care is having a shower. Even once a week is a good improvement, over a few months, self-care is washing my face and putting moisturizer on self-care is you know what? I've got 30 seconds while I'm sitting in the car before I have to go and get My child out of school, I'm going to sit here and I'm just going to breathe. Yeah, like I say, it's the little things, the littlest things, where you can give to yourself, where you can take care of yourself, where you can sit down, and have a coffee and disclosure of eyes and feel the sun on your face. That is self-care, you're absolutely right. And speaking of self-care and some other Solutions, I know that you say that you've got this Mary Poppins bag of tricks. You've got so many wonderful diverse certifications from life.

25:02 Chain to NLP to Reiki and so, all sorts of things. Can you talk to us about how you are able to tap into these various modalities of your expertise, in order to help your clients your when I'm doing one-on-one wiggle, one onto. So, I work with a couple but I often do a lot of individual work with the couple because it's actually here skills and how to communicate, but let's get to the deeper level as to why you constantly get triggered by feeling abandoned or you're angry or whatever. The emotion is the coming out. So I do admit mixture of stuff. I use my intuition a lot of the time and my obviously I've been doing this for quite a while so I can hear what someone saying but I can actually read between the lines and feel a lot deeper into what's really going on.

25:43 I utilize a lot of the mixture of NLP with hypnosis with a bit of Shadow work, a bit of Journey work a bit of intuition a bit of guided stuff where I actually take them right into that deeper level and have them get awareness around what's really going on. But often there's a lot of forgiveness work that has to happen. Forgiveness of parents forgiveness of Figures forgiveness of self forgiveness of God in the universe. Believe me, where there is anger and frustration and all kinds of grief. They are so it's doing often a lot of the inner healing. Guiding them through into that space where their pain is still present and allowing and facilitating that pain to come through in a way that healing and not destructive to themselves and other people.

26:26 And sometimes in that process, there's energy stuff that I do. There's a support, sometimes it's a process. It's like a there's a process and NLP process called a phobia scramble. But the beautiful thing about that is really good for helping to take some of the emotion out of the event that they're stuck on so they can get rational understanding and perspective on what happened and then they can heal and create you know the healing from that. So it depending on what's needed by pull up whatever tool I've got, I use sometimes multiple things at the same time even though they don't know that I'm doing it because healing What's happening in? The subconscious is not a black-and-white scenario, people are not black and white relationships are not black and white.

27:09 It is so diverse it more than 50 Shades of Grey. There's like thousands of them. So, it's, I pull all of that together and at the moment I'm because I'm a special needs parent myself. I have limited amount of time and the best way that I find, I can help people right now is to put them through with a group program. In my group program, I focus on three things, communication skills, because most people didn't grow up learning them they using default. Vaults that they learn from people around them who were probably not so great at it. The second one is relating skills. You don't think about that. But how do you act as a team? How do you understand your partner? How do you give and receive in the relationship? A lot of women are not so great at receiving. How do you balance? How do you operate in the relationship with the financial load on their kids and how do you all of get that understanding?

27:58 And then the last part is all about developing emotional maturity. Because I guarantee you, when you start to get into those fights and arguments the immature conflict behaviors come out. And I know them all because I've done them and there are still times I slam doors. So, you know, I'm not perfect and when you are so depleted and so tired and what not, you are not your best version of yourself. So I help you to get awareness around what your own stuff is that is impacting the relationship and your ability to connect and be in harmony. Any with each other and we do that level of work. I give you tools. I give you processes and questions to get that self-awareness but also to of mapped out what I call the peace process. So when you start to see that your discussion is starting to blow up and go into all kinds of destructive zones, I teach couples to go, right?

28:51 What someone needs to call a timeout, or a stop or a pause. And then each individual goes and runs the peace process and part of the peace process is getting an understanding as to what's really happening here? What is my stuff that's been? Take it in this and I've give them templates to be able to communicate that with their partner, when they come back to it in a way that is low trigger, which means it's not going to trigger High defense and reactiveness from your partner. So it's What's called the peace process. So, I give tools that help people while they're still working on their staff to move through these upsets and conflicts, but in a way that becomes bonding rather than damaging, I think that those are such powerful tools that any Buddy can use, but particularly because you are focusing on parents of special needs children.

29:38 It's phenomenally targeted, it's specific and it could be tailored just for the people who need it. Now, you are located in Brisbane. Australia. Do you accept International clients? I work with people all over the world. That's why I love having an online business because I do everything from home, but yes, absolutely. And I really do love working more with my us clients because of our time zone difference, that works for me, it means that I can do work in Evenings. When the old ones, the kids go down but I can be working in my day while the kids are at school. So absolutely, like I said, who could everybody all over the world and online? So the training aspect is done at your own self Pace, in the master classes do that and then join in on the Q&A calls where you can say, hey, this is the scenario with our relationship and get some direct support and access to, to change them. Ladies and gentlemen, this is reach Wilson. Divine relating is the name of the website. Look, her up.

30:31 This could be a Lifeline to You really being able to manage and cope, not only with a better relationship with your children, but especially with your spouse, or with your significant other, whoever that might be in your life or even if you're single, if you're looking for somebody to relate to, I think that this is something that you deserve to do for you. It's not like you are going out of your way and thinking about, you know, only about yourself. This is really for you to be able to shine in your entire family. It's for your children as well. It's for Anybody that is around you and it's for your benefit and so I do highly encouraged. If you think that this episode spoke to you take a look at what Rachel Wilson is doing because it could be a lifesaver for you Rach. I just want to thank you so much for your time today. It was an absolute pleasure and joy to meet you and to speak with you today.

31:20 Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed it and it's great to get an opportunity to share this information to connect with people who are might be able to make the biggest difference for because for me, it's, you know, thriving, love means thriving, us means thriving family. Amen to that. Thank you very much. Thank you.