Episode 32: Dr. Paige Yang - The Beauty of Ancient Traditional Chinese Medicine

0:07 Hello, beautiful humans. Welcome to role models. Juicy conversations with beautiful humans. I'm Jennifer Norman founder of the human Beauty movement and your host today. We are going to talk about emotions and how our mental health affects our physical health, and our appearance. My special guest today is dr. Paige young. A doctor of traditional Anal Chinese medicine, who specializes in women's, health fertility, facial Rejuvenation, and acupuncture, dr. Yang helps her patients, nurture their emotional well-being, so they can look and feel their best. Welcome, dr. Yang, I'm so happy to be discussing this riveting topic with you.

0:48 Thank you. Thank you so much and feel free to call me page Jennifer during the month. Of course. No problem, page. Thank you for offering. Well, let's get to know you. Please tell us about your backgrounds and Had developed an interest in TCM. Yes. So I am a local Hawaii, girl and my mother's Chinese from Hawaii. My father is Caucasian or what we call Holly here in Hawaii, and he was born in Venezuela, but his family made their way to Colorado and that's kind of where he calls home. And I first got interested in traditional Chinese medicine, from my grandmother, who is from China and going up, she always celebrated all of the holidays and was very true to the traditions and Customs she's a calligrapher painter, author, ballerina, all of these traditional forms.

1:38 That really inspired her from her childhood in China. And so going up, she took care of me often and she would just teach me a lot of these things taught me calligraphy taught me how to, you know, count speak very basic Chinese and it just had a big impact on me. So that was really my big introduction to Chinese culture and then what led to You my interest in traditional Chinese medicine. How amazing are you also bilingual? Yes. Oh, I'm completely proficient in Mandarin. I can read write and speak and I'm really grateful. I have that. Yeah, when I think what a gift now traditional Chinese medicine is so fascinating and it covers a wide variety of modalities.

2:20 Can you share some of the ones that you use in your practice? Yes. So acupuncturist, the big one, that traditional Chinese medicines really known for its how a lot of people get introduced to them. Addison. I'm also a board certified herbalist and I practice Gua Sha in the clinic which is another modality that we might touch upon when we talk more about beauty. And I also do moxibustion, which is a burning of a Chinese herb that really helps to stimulate the channels and meridians and add warmth to the body. I do Twain on which is a form of Chinese medicinal massage and Qi Gong, which is a kind of an energy type of healing and it Really means like to exercise your energy so I will apply that as well to the needles or to my patients when I'm treating them and then of course there's always diet lifestyle and nutrition. No coaching that is included in people's treatments as applicable.

3:14 So wow there's so much now I can't because there's so much it's almost like you don't know where to begin but it's like what is it about? Traditional Chinese medicine. That is so powerful and so special. And that perhaps, you know, when we think about Eastern Or what we'd consider, still alternative, even though it's not quite as alternative anymore, as it once was. But what is it about the difference between the eastern and traditional, Chinese medicine? Way of healing versus Western medicine, traditional Chinese medicine has been documented for over 5,000 years. However, it's been around for much longer than that, and that is because over 5,000 years ago, when the human consciousness was a lot more elevated, people could communicate Lee and they had a much stronger sense of communication through the spirit and the mind, they didn't have the need to really document in a written form and then, as we kind of descended into darker times and we've lost our ability to communicate in those ways and our Consciousness kind of started to dim that is when people realized. Okay, we need to start writing this down because we are going to forget this information.

4:23 We don't have the same access to that type of communication. We're starting to lose grip of it. So documented For 5,000 years. It's really a medicine rooted in taoism which is rooted in nature and I always say that science was formulated to explain nature and therefore there's nothing more scientific than nature itself. And so this medicine is rooted in nature. It's rooted in the intelligence of Nature. And that's really what makes it so powerful because it really brings us back to communion with nature. And, you know, there's this non Duality between human beings and Each other, and a lot of times, we also lose sight of that. And we think that we're separate and we can control nature and were the dominant species. And we're here to kind of like rule above everything else. And so traditional Chinese medicine kind of says that's not true and so it helps us to slow down and really tap into that intelligence of Nature and see how we're so interconnected. And then that was can then heal us. And then when we look at Western biomedicine, they very much come from that.

5:29 At standpoint. Well, it's only believe like around 250 years old, maybe 300 years old, so of course, there's that immaturity that is embedded in the medicine but then there's also that idea that they can control manipulate manufacture, engineer types of nature, synthetically in a controlled way to replicate for studies and to promote sales of pharmaceuticals. And so anything that's going to be rooted in that intention, the efficacy is always going to be Little bit compromised. And of course, there is an amazing, amazing, amazing Leaps and Bounds of modern medicine and how it can save lives and prolong life and it's truly incredible, the research that's there.

6:14 But on a very fundamental Foundation, that's really where the big difference is. I see our between the two medicines. Yeah. Oh my gosh, it is so profound. This is the first time that I've ever heard it explained in terms of the fact that it is more rooted. In Consciousness and therefore in nature versus the Western medicine, which is much more. As you mentioned, immature, I was going to call it arrogance because who are we to say that? You know, this is the way I find it. So fascinating that the way that, you know, modern science works is the double blind Placebo control as the be-all end-all to determine if something works and then they put people into completely artificial environments in many cases which which will No serve a certain purpose but not necessarily get to the facts that you have to be in a specific environment in order to thrive and allow these things to kind of flow out their course.

7:09 And so, yeah, is the system rigged, probably. And so that's why it's so funny that only now, are we finding, well, there's something to this plant medicine. There's something to this meditation and this all, you know, elevated way of getting into the mind and it's fascinating that we have lost touch with the fact that we used to be able to communicate. Yoon so much and being so much more harmony with nature and it's so much more apparent in indigenous and tribal communities than it is in the modern world. We have lost touch with that. Absolutely. And it's wonderful that there's, you know, wonderful people such as yourself that are passing down through ancestry. These wonderful gifts and holding onto the specialness that is as medicine and its really thriving. It's having a moment and hopefully it will only continue to escalate from here.

7:57 Yeah, I hope so as well. Yeah. So As you mentioned, a lot of people do enter in because they have an acre pain or something that's going on in their body and they're like, well and somebody will tell them. Have you seen an acupuncturist about that? If all else fails, you know, if you got something with a muscle or something with a joint, even pets will go for acupuncture as well and so how in the world does it work? It's been so many people. So many patients, I mean, half of my patients are interested to really know how it works in the other half for, you know, they just Totally surrender and they want to be dispersed teams knowledge of the medicine. So essentially, I mean, the really cool thing is, there are 365 main points on 12 channels and meridians.

8:43 And this was thousands of years. Before the Gregorian calendar said there's 365 days for 10 12 months and the points are really a reflection of the constellations on the cosmos. And a lot of them share the same names as the Stars. So Chinese medicine understood that the body was in my Cause them of all that is and we are just like a conduit of the universe and Divinity. So essentially illness and Chinese medicine is seen as blocks of energy. So we talked about Chia lot which is very hard to translate just and give it its full justice. But in a sense, it's the energy, the life force, the Vitality that runs through all of us and so when this energy gets stuck, it causes illness that causes stagnation and what a lot of people Oil. And the Western world might understand is inflammation. And so, the needle is essentially a tool that's inserted at these specific points. And these points are like, communication portals, and they receive the messages different messages at different points. And then they go ahead and disseminated throughout the whole body and tell the body exactly what to do and how to do it.

9:49 So, the needle Taps into that communication portal and says, okay, this is what to do. This is how to do it and it really helps to unblock the stagnation of energy, And she and blood. And then when that happens, the body can return to Harmony and function normally. So that is, you know, I don't know. That helps people understand it anymore, but that is really kind of the work of acupuncture. Wow, it's quizzical. It's phenomenal, it's magical, and it's really all that. And so to the point that no pun intended. So the point that it gets to these very specific places in the body which are in line with everything that is within The Universe. I mean it's just so profound.

10:32 I love that and I had no idea. That is so cool. Wow. So what kind of things do people mostly come in for and then do they start to like once they've kind of drunk the Kool-Aid, do they then start to get more interested and intrigued and want to be cure a little bit more, curious about a more natural lifestyle. Yeah, so I'd say, overall, for my field, most people find Chinese medicine and acupuncture because they are in a lot of pain and either, they don't want to be on pain. Station and go down that whole path. That's a really, you know, a big issue here or they just didn't respond to me pain medication. And so that's what brings a lot of people in a door for traditional Chinese medicine.

11:13 For my practice specifically, many women are coming in for fertility, hormonal mental health, related issues, and then facial Rejuvenation. So that's where they Peak interests and find me. And then, you know, I'd say I have a pretty high patient. Action rate. So once they're in the clinic and I can educate them about how we will be working together and what it looks like to work with me. Then for the most part, they really commit and are compliant to the treatment. I also do, you know, Hawaii the cost of living, here is very high, salaries are very low, and I had a practice in the Bay Area and I actually just kept my bay area rates and move them over to Hawaii. So, that's just to say that the patients that come in my door, they're very committed.

11:59 And they're very intentional. They're not necessarily trying to try it out. I think my rates are too expensive to just try it out. A part of them has already committed to the medicine before they find me. But yeah, before they book with me, I understand I probably wouldn't be able to afford you, but so interestingly enough for the I would say the guests that are in Hawaii, there's always this notion that Hawaii does have some essence or a actual magic or some sort of real mystical wonderful halo around it. That keeps it so sacred. Do you find that the people there who are coming to you or more the ones that are transplanted.

12:41 So gosh I'm so glad you brought this up. I have I always have a lot of opinions so well one thing I'll say that's great as I have a grant program that specifically I've to Grants for native Hawaiians that aren't Healthcare and education. So they get to apply. There's application. Says they have to submit an essay, they have to demonstrate their connection to their lineage and how they give back to the community. And then once they're awarded and I just awarded at the turn of this month to new recipients they receive six visits of choice and they can choose any treatment they want any six at any duration. So that's a great way that I get to really keep in touch with native Hawaiian population and specifically the ones in education and health care that I just feel like our great service.

13:29 To our community. And then I do, you know, I had a lot of the bay is, well, I don't know how similar probably in La where you just kind of find the provider in your neighborhood because there's always going to be a. There's so many providers in California that you're just going to find the one that's convenient. So I, you know, I only pulled from the people that lived close to me when I was in the bay and then when I moved back home to Oahu, there were quite a bit of patience from the bay that made their way to Hawaii. It because of the pandemic, they were able to work distally and then they started to come in and see me because they always knew of me from the bay, but they didn't want to travel, you know, from San Jose to work.

14:11 So they, but then, once they were on the same island as me, it brought them in. So I do see a decent amount of transplants from the Bay Area and then I see a lot of mostly, my community is locals because, you know, born and raised here. I'm sixth generation in Hawaii too. My mom and her dad's side and so I really, you know, and they see the work they do for the community, and we love to support local. So that is still majority of my patients. That is so special because I have actually been watching a lot of news, documentaries about the colonization and about the loss of culture. And it's hard. It's very hard for, you know, the former generations to feel that their ancestry and their lineage is being diluted. And so, you know, it's nice to be able to keep that. Specialness and that uniqueness in the culture for sure. So thank you, thank you for doing that. That's amazing.

15:06 So then how did you get into women's fertility? Women's Health and Beauty, frankly, what was it? That really kind of Drew you over to that area of helping other individuals with Muslim telling them, right? So when I start from my board exams, my California Board exams. I was actually five months pregnant and no wonder you know more Yeah. So my son was born. I think I was like licensed in May 2014 and then he was born in September 2014. So really soon at right when I had entered the fields or a license within the field and start my own practice, I was a mother and that answered your field and so that's right.

15:50 And it's, you know, as you know, it's just very mother her Hood, especially early motherhood is very taxing and trying, and really in Once is all aspects of your life. So that's kind of when I decided, all right, I want to do my doctorate and then I'm going to specialize in fertility and Women's Health. And then what had happened was, I saw a big wave of patients successfully and they had their children. They came in to see me regularly. They want to their pregnancy, they have their children, they got some postpartum, and then they all came back and they were like, I don't look and feel like myself, how can you help me? And that's when I really shifted Focus has to fish with Jubilation because I felt like Okay. How can I help these women to look and feel like themselves? Like, they just didn't recognize who they were anymore. Are who they were becoming or they like really grieve their old selves pre motherhood.

16:41 So that's really when I pivoted to Fisher. Would you Venetian? And then what I saw with that was truly like the aging process and what women were not liking about themselves. What came underneath that was this big psycho-emotional component and that's kind of what led to those features. So those aspects of their faces that they didn't love was actually being an experience or a collection of experiences that led to, you know, a very pronounced crease or an expression that they didn't necessarily relate to excetera. So that's kind of where the mental health part made its way in as well. Because I saw that relationship and how direct it was, and how much it influence the Pete woman's appearance.

17:25 That's so fascinating. So it's almost as if when we go through Life and there's these transitions or these extreme. I guess turning points that really Define, it could be the birth of a child. It could be a graduation of divorce and marriage, all of these things, but it's almost like you're turning the page and you do your body becomes somebody else. But have you lost something or have you left something behind that? You're still pining for. Tell me what that emotional work is like, you know, how do you get down and dig down into the emotions and the mental health with what you do. So, I've seen most of my really loyal page Hands are probably in their 50s and 60s and they're either, you know, divorced in a second marriage. Their children are grown and out of the house, and they're really trying to find who they are without all of those identities that they had previously and what that generation that old. So the expectations that their generation had on who they were supposed to be as women and so they come into the clinic and they're a little bit lost.

18:27 And I think over the decades there, Spirit and part of their Spirits were kind of leaving their body and given to other people and sacrificed and really take in the back seat and I, you know, I'm a millennial. And I feel like my generation really was starting to shift this Narrative of like taking care of ourselves and self care and really understanding the importance of that. So the women coming in at still such a new thing and they say they feel still conflicted. They don't know if they're being selfish, they don't know if they deserve this. They You know, they have all of these conflicting messages. So essentially I kind of act as a mirror and just deeply listen to them and then I give I kind of just report back. What I hear and what I hear their fears are or what they're trying to reconcile with their lives. And that deep listening becomes extremely healing for them because for the most part, no one did that for them they just didn't, you know, their kids wouldn't do it, either spouse wouldn't do it.

19:26 Their parents definitely didn't do it and a lot of them women, that's Are that friends for everyone else? The ones that come into my clinic so they just really didn't have anyone to do that for them. So just the Deep listening and reflecting back is a huge start of their healing journey to be seen and heard and validated and then once you know each case is going to be different. But once they get that and they really understand their footing, then we can kind of start to Pivot and we can what eventually happens. So I really I have these 10 Pack series so I have people sign up for 10 Treatments they come in once a week for ten visit so over the course of the ten visits, what really ends up happening is yes, they end up looking amazing. But they all say to me, that they completely changed their relationship with themselves and their aging process and the way in which they love Pat aging and beauty and that to them was the biggest rewarding part of the whole 10 Pack series. It wasn't that we were able to do all the aesthetic things. They wanted to achieve.

20:29 Leave. It was that they're able to come to a place where they thought that complete ease and love and acceptance of themselves, and who they were in this phase of their lives. Isn't that what true happiness is all about? Its true. And a lot of times it happens after something. That's very traumatic. I myself will know that all too well and you really feel that there's just a loss of clarity. There are these blockages. There are these - Halos and a lot of things that are just getting in your way and causing you to lose sight of you. We have yourself and so you, do you start looking externally saying I should be looking like this or I don't, you know, I don't feel like this anymore and and the aging process and the you know, the marching of time does its thing and it causes people to even not recognize themselves even more. And that unfortunately, is the evidence that they see that they are not themselves.

21:18 And so the listening I absolutely love that. It's like you're giving therapy sessions at the same time that you're also helping them with all these other things and being able to really You know, take those moments to focus on themselves and to the point of guilt. Yeah, a lot of people are like, you know, I in my generation and I'm a Gen X or it was like the more that you can be of service to other people, then you are a good person, you know, then you were, you know, worthy of Praise. But you know, if you focus too much on yourself. If you you know, take moments of yourself, then you're not a good mom or you're not a good daughter or whatever. And then all of that shame and all of that guilt does Cascade on to you too. It's wonderful that you're able to have those kinds of breakthroughs with your work in order for people to really find themselves and find that satisfaction knowing that there's always room to improve and there's always that journey of Excellence that we all seek but not letting that. Be a goal that prevents you from being satisfied and loving yourself with how you are right here right now. For sure, I that's lovely.

22:23 That's lovely. So I know that you mentioned Gua Sha and I would love to Circle back to that because it's something. Thing that I actually started using in my practice and it's actually really. I enjoyed it really feels like just a nice face massage and I actually use, I make an oil with you might humanist Beauty brand which is wonderful liniment for letting it just Glide over the skin. But can you tell me about where this started? And I know that a lot of people do use either rose quartz, or obsidian, or Jade and what that has to do. If there's any method to The Madness of using this wonderful crystals in order to help guide energy, right? Yeah. So you know, earlier I mentioned artifacts dating back to the Stone Age, the Paleolithic Age and really what was found were these Gua Sha tools and these stones that were cut and used for Gua Sha and Gua Sha was traditionally used for internal illness. So in different cultures even like Vietnamese culture, Chinese culture, you would actually Gua means to scrape and then shock the character in shock.

23:26 Oh, there's a character, meaning saint, but there's a radical above. It that means illness. So it talks about that particular a that kind of straw bearing that can come up from scraping. So, traditionally, it was used to help with internal illness such as feeble disease, regulate blood pressure, body aches, and pains warding off colds and flus and it was applied to the body, primarily the back the neck, sometimes, the shoulders, even the underarms to help release those pathogens. And so, that's kind of where it originated from. And then in the Ching dynasty, in China, So kind of like the mid-1800s into the early 1900's, there was an emperor who ruled and a do eger sushi and she loves Beauty.

24:10 You know, she was an empress so she sat on her throne and she loved was installed with beauty. So, around that time, they started to repurpose these Gua Sha tools. Use precious stones, you know, for royalty, upper-class delete. And so, in China and Chinese culture Jade has such a suspicious type of pressure. Shh Stone and the culture. So she would use Jade. She would use other types of coveted stones. And she then a technique kind of shifted to the aesthetic, a show, Gua Sha or what's called me Abu Garcia, and what happened as they had to adapt, they didn't want that shot. That particular kind of strawberry rash they understood. They had slowed down and have been intentional practice. That was much slower than had more mild pressure and that would then yield some Aesthetic benefits. Oh, she's been photographed with facial tools. Period pieces of like Chinese sitcoms where she is, you know, featured in them.

25:09 They'll position her with a facial roller or a washout board. So, that's when it became really popular in mainland, China, in the late 1800s, early 1900s and then it only really made landfall in the US, I don't know, 10, 15 years ago, very recently. Yeah, and that problem with that has been, it's I'm very convoluted and I think a lot of people don't even know that it originated from China and its modality with in Chinese medicine because the popularity kind of fell into the hands of you know, women that were not connected to the culture of the medicine and the history and didn't know how to hand down this modality. This cultural practice.

25:49 So you know that's kind of where it still is and myself and some colleagues are trying to change the narrative, help educate people and to help them understand the order. Then routes significance and intentions or it's not just like a beauty hacker Beauty Trend, it's really rooted in a cultural practice and it was handed down with affection within households, amongst women, as a way to take care of yourself and love yourself. So it's a much deeper practice. And then, of course, you know, the gemstone industry has exploded and there, you know, with any type of explosion of a commodity, there's always going to be conflict involved. So I really personally, I have my own facial tool line and brand and I really stick to, you know, rose quartz which is very popular but it's also courts. Essentially is found everywhere around the world. It's very abundant.

26:39 It's not this like deep dark coveted, gemstone that does have a little bit of a or maybe a lot of bit of a conflict Trail following it. So but yeah. So that's kind of, you know, and then in Chinese culture, Jade has huge and I love Jade and Tanner and Jade. I have Jade. I have a lot of jade. Yeah, yeah. So that's another popular material within Chinese medicine that will utilize for facial glass jaw specifically. Yeah, can you tell me a little bit more about the significance of Jade in the Chinese culture? Because people wear it with the jewels, and all of these wonderful things out of Jay. And I have quite an arsenal of Jade myself. And a lot of times, I'll need, you know, what, from a conscious perspective or an intuitive perspective, certain Stones mean, and I never really know if it's true. True or not.

27:30 But it's always like, well, this has that nice interesting superstitious backstory, but I'm sure that there's so much more to it than that. Yes, I mean, I can speak from just someone within the culture. I'm not a gemologist, of course, but so Jade is the raw form of jadeite is a living Stone which means that it is Gonna Change in color. Once you wear Jade and the Jade kind of chooses you it interacts with your body. So I have a bangle with that. I'm wearing now and some vain Have come out of it and because it's raw, it's still living and it's kind of interact with my own body and then another the Jade bracelet that I have one. I got covid. All these black specks started to come out of the Jade and I know that it was detoxing and helping to purify me. And the other thing with Raja is it kind of captures all the negative energy and then it disperses it out. So it's as a living Stone, it just has a lot of, you know, all energy.

28:29 Erotic bodies have a lot of power. So the Jade is no exception and it's just something that's always been so celebrated, with, in Chinese culture. It's so, she it's very strong to, it's a very strong Stone. And so that also the durability is attractive as well. Then you can handed down through the generations and it's good luck like, you know Chinese we love anything about like luck and Fortune and what's going to bring you good health and a lot of money and that's kind of like the things that Chinese culture really focuses on so Jade. Seen as one of those stones that will do those things for you. That's beautiful. I would love. Since you've mentioned that gouache. I had originally been used all over the body. Are there any tips or things that you still do in your practice that other people might be able to incorporate on their own?

29:17 Did you wash on the body? Because I've only known it for the face, right? So I guess yeah, I mean a couple things about that so because it is a medical modality there are going to be cautions and contraindications and Evolved within that practice. So the hard thing is unless you're a practitioner or you grown up in a family that knew how to utilize it, it is a little hard to instruct people on the usage of it for internal illness because of those risks. So God forbid there's like a woman who's pregnant and or has like a blood pressure issue or a clotting issue or an issue with their cycle and we try to instruct them from afar and something goes wrong. You know, that would be a fault of Chinese medicine. And so I kind of shy away from that. As much as of course, we want to be able to give people this information and be helpful.

30:07 The best thing is to really seek out a provider who will be able to apply those techniques to you or even be able to give you more Hands-On instruction. Yeah, that is such great Hyson and absolutely are, you know, I don't know, too many people who would want to do acupuncture on themselves. And so so this should be treated in the same precious way, how about some of the The more commonly used herbs, I'll say common in that I hope that those of no risk and talking about them. Like if somebody has a headache or somebody's having menstrual cramps or if somebody's having other sorts of, you know, pain in their body, anywhere Are there specific, go to herbs that are just more commonly used within traditional Chinese medicine, these are really good questions. So the interesting thing is a lot of people will say, it's so hard to get a straight answer from my acupuncturist or Because this medicine, I think we often even though earlier spoke about the beauty and Stillness and calm of nature. They're also of course, is a chaotic side of nature that we often forget about.

31:11 And so, which is just to say that this medicine is very nuanced and it is very complicated and what makes it so wonderful. As it's very specific to each individual like we don't even though this is how the West does things, because it makes a good profit where they can just throw on. Like, You know, headache medication or like anti-diarrhea medication or anti blood or you know, lower blood pressure medication because every person is different. They have their own health history, they're identified differently with gender age weight where they are in their cycle, the best way to practice this medicine so that it doesn't get diluted for future Generations is to really go patient-specific.

31:54 And as a result the kind of the better answer for Petitioners who are really Integrity with the medicine is that unfortunately, there isn't going to be this like one Panacea type of herb for a certain condition because the way in which that condition arose is going to be completely different for each individual. So that's what makes the medicine a little frustrating and it keeps it more mysterious. And it's just a little harder to access because of that hurl, but really to keep it intact and to honor it, that's kind of how it has to be practiced. So that's the Hard part, you know, for people listening and that want to just really benefit. And, you know, people still Brands still exist without utilize, traditional Chinese herbs to then pull a profit based on how they Market it, on very generalized conditions but that really isn't how the medicine is intended to be practiced.

32:49 I think that that just speaks volumes about your own integrity and that, you know, in being asked a direct question, such as I had done on a podcast, it's true. It's like that. Makes it so beautifully customized and so individual. And so specific to what your needs are versus anybody else's needs. And the end. The fact that somebody else might have gotten healing from XYZ does not in the very least mean that you will get healing from XYZ because your own energy or your own body and one size does not fit all. So I appreciate that guidance. So immensely and it's probably one of the first times that I've actually heard that.

33:29 That. So, thank you. It is highly appreciative and it keeps it to your point. It keeps it very special and mysterious. And, but for good reason, is because those that are practicing with integrity and you're right. Within the Western culture, everybody just wants that quick fix. Everybody wants to be able to go and buy something packaged off the shelf and there's probably wonderful companies that do their best to try to, you know, do it for the masses because they perhaps think that there could be more good than harm, but for the most part, yeah, it is. Creating a bit of a watering down or shall I say a lot of watering down on what has been really something that has been very special and unique. And I almost think of it as a place where you get with Shaman and certain cultures and how they practice medicine and how they practice Ceremony, this should be treated in a very similar fashion. Mmm right, amazing.

34:21 Well, are there any other words that you would like to offer to people who might be interested in coming to see a specialist such as yourself? If a doctor of Chinese medicine. Yes. I think that you know there can be hurdles to finding a good provider based on where you live and what you are able to access economically. But I will say that the great thing about this medicine is it really helps you understand the value of your health and well-being and in our culture in the US were such a concern, you know, we love consuming things and I never try to judge anyone where certain Bring them a lot of happiness, but I also want to encourage those same people to them equally or if not more value their own health and well-being.

35:07 And so, while initially, you know, a lot of places, our practices, do not work with insurance because either insurance will not cover it or it's just too hard, difficult of a model for an acupuncturist to participate in. And so a lot of times people see that as a big hurdle and they're like, oh can I really afford to do this? And when you value something you find a way and there There are, you know, the myself included. I'll spend a lot of money on hair or nails, or, you know, people in Hawaii love to spend money on Handbags and all of those things, and I'm happy for them. And I'm happy, it brings them Joy, but I also want them to see what I can provide and what other acupuncturist can provide and put a lot of value in that and see how regenerative it is for them, and then be able to prioritize their finances and take a leap of faith.

35:59 Then seek someone out. So that's kind of like the thing that I see a lot of the time because we're so used to either co-pays or insurance or we don't think we're supposed to be paying a lot for a medicine. That's not mainstream. But if we can shift our perspective and our priorities, then you there's a huge benefit to be had and finding a provider within traditional Chinese medicine. Such wise words. Doctor, Paige, young, I am going to put your links in the show notes. I am So delighted, thank you so much for these words of wisdom that you shared with us today. Thank you so much for having me Jennifer.