My Self-Esteem Journey Having Dyslexia with Ellen Busch

Jennifer Norman:
Hello, beautiful humans. Welcome to The Human Beauty Movement Podcast, your source for hope, healing, happiness, and humanity. My name is Jennifer Norman. I'm the founder of The Human Beauty Movement and your host. This podcast is here to guide you on your journey of self love, empowerment, soul alignment, and joy. With each episode, I invite beautiful humans from all corners of the globe to join me for open conversations about their life lessons and the important work that they are doing to help heal humankind. Take a moment now to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode. I'm so glad you're here, joining me for today's show.

Jennifer Norman:
On this episode, we're going to discuss the neurodiverse topic of dyslexia and how it can impact self esteem. According to the International Dyslexia Association, it's estimated that between 15 and 20% of the population has symptoms of dyslexia. But it's important to note that not all individuals with symptoms are formally diagnosed. My guest today is a woman who was diagnosed as dyslexic at an early age. Ellen Busch is here to share her story and talk about how she was able to find empowerment and inner healing. On today's show, you'll learn how having supportive parents can help overcome learning obstacles, how education outside the classroom can be beneficial to those with dyslexia, how insidious low self esteem can be and ways to release it, and how Ellen captured her heartfelt story. In her memoir, (dis)Empowered, she shares how she was able to turn an academic death sentence into her life's greatest adventure. Welcome to the show, Ellen.

Ellen Busch:
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here with you.

Jennifer Norman:
It's really an honor to have this conversation with you. First, I'd like to talk about dyslexia. Now. Originally, when I was younger, it was described to me by friends that I knew that it was like when they would read something, it was like the words or the numbers were reversing or jumping over the page. In researching this, I discovered that a more formal definition is that dyslexia is a specific learning disorder characterized by difficulties with accurate and or fluent word recognition, poor spelling, and decoding abilities. Individuals with dyslexia typically have difficulties with phonological processing, which affects their ability to break down and manipulate the sounds of language. And dyslexia, most importantly, is not due to lack of intelligence or lack of educational opportunities, but rather it stems from differences in brain functioning, particularly in areas related to reading and language processing. It's a lifelong condition that can vary in severity and can impact various aspects of life, including academic achievement and self esteem.

Jennifer Norman:
Now, of course, that is all good and textbooky, but I would love to know how it was. From your own personal experience having dyslexia, what was it like?

Ellen Busch:
Well, first, I want to start with saying what you just said there hits the nail on the head. It is, from what I understand, it is absolutely accurate. My experience and some of the things I've learned about myself, I could dive a little bit deeper into those things. And it certainly is different depending on the student and their developmental age or developmental stage, I should say. And I believe it's not something I have. I believe it's something I am.

Jennifer Norman:
Ah.

Ellen Busch:
So. And it comes with some great talents which we could dive into later. So the way that I look at it, it's kind of a trade off. It's like, okay, so we're not good at spelling, and we have to read a little slower. And, yes, we mixed numbers up, but we have some really great talents. I'll back into that a little bit. And my feeling is that I have fantastic visual spatial skills.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, okay.

Ellen Busch:
And this is very common among people who are dyslexic. In fact, it is so common at MIT, they call it the MIT disease.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, really?

Ellen Busch:
Now, I beg to differ with the term 'disease.'

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. Okay.

Ellen Busch:
But it's still a positive in there. And that there are scientific organizations, including NASA, who specifically are recruiting people who are dyslexic for their visual spatial skills. So I have developed a hypothesis or a theory, and I think why we struggle with language so much is language is not our first language. We think in pictures, we don't think in words. So there's a translation that we have to learn as we're growing up and we don't always get it right.

Jennifer Norman:
Very interesting. And I love how you describe that, and that's something that I hadn't heard of before. Everybody is discovering there are so many different ways that we learn and the way that we had originally learned, you know, back in the day, and the school system was very regimented, it was very structured. It was reading, writing, arithmetic, and not necessarily so focused on the arts as it were. And yet now we're becoming much more cognizant of the different facets of neurodiversity and the way that we can aid beautiful children who are super talented and are not intellectually impaired, but just have a different way of learning. So can you describe to me what it was like when you were younger and going through school and what that was like, and then what you needed to do in order to kind of compensate or have some support.

Ellen Busch:
Sure. So, unfortunately, when I went through the school system, and it was in the mid seventies, even though I lived in a very affluent community, Croton-on-Hudson, Westchester county suburb, New York, just outside of New York City, people moved there for those schools. And unfortunately, the belief system at that time was that there was no hope for me. And in a parent teacher conference, I was written off. I was six or seven years old, and my parents were told college was out of the question. Maybe I'd finished high school. They should focus on finding a husband who would take care of me because I wouldn't be contributing to society.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, my goodness.

Ellen Busch:
Yeah. And that is in my book. It's pretty awful. That parent teacher conference ended with my mother pounding her fist on the desk, saying, I refuse to allow you to condemn my daughter.

Jennifer Norman:
There you go. Amen for mama.

Ellen Busch:
Yeah. Both of my parents were extraordinary, and they just refused to accept that. And they were going to do and did everything they could to support me, to help me. And you know what? I did go to college.

Jennifer Norman:
And not only that, you got a masters after that, too.

Ellen Busch:
Exactly. And then I wrote a book.

Jennifer Norman:
And then you wrote a book, which is no easy thing.

Ellen Busch:
It just took a long time.

Jennifer Norman:
I want to talk about your incredible parents, because I know that you sing their praises and God bless them. I understand that they're no longer with us, but they are with you in spirit. And they were such big advocates of you from that time that you got the diagnosis and had that parent teacher conference, and they supported you in so many different ways. Can you share some of the ways that they helped to inspire different kinds of learning?

Ellen Busch:
Sure. So my mother was the one who did the kind of boots on the ground work. She was always at the parent teacher conferences. She was always in touch with my teachers. She would do my homework with me every single night. She was a class mom. I don't know if they still do that anymore, but I think they do. So she was physically in the school on a very regular basis and participating on field trips and things like that.

Ellen Busch:
So she was always watching over me. Some of the teachers were extraordinary, and some of them just wrote me off. It was mostly the administrators. So she founded a friendship with my teachers, worked with them to help me keep moving forward. So that was the key piece of it. My dad, who was an army veteran, really understood that the real important learning comes outside of the classroom, and he focused on outdoor learning and learning to persevere. And he taught me everything I knew. We had a summer place on Fire Island, so we'd spend our summers there.

Ellen Busch:
And dad was an avid fisherman, and he taught me at a very young age how to navigate, how to read nautical charts, how to pilot his boat. I used to have to stand on an upside down bucket so I could reach the steering wheel.

Jennifer Norman:
Very cool.

Ellen Busch:
But I was learning all about the environment. I was learning how to pilot a boat. I was learning navigation skills at a very young age. That was very intentional. He then went on to send me on Outward Bound when I was 15, which was the youngest they would take us at that time, that was an absolute game changer because I got to get out into the environment, and suddenly I wasn't a dyslexic student anymore. I was just a kid on outward belt.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, yeah.

Ellen Busch:
And I got to lead. I got to do rock climbing, rappelling, and I did it all. And I excelled in that environment. And I think my dad knew that I would excel, which is why he sent me. So I'm doing all these challenging things, and each time you learn and grow and you get better at learning how to perform, persevere, and that was the key skill that I needed in order to really survive the death sentence that I was given and then also learn to thrive again.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. I wanted to ask, what were your grades like in school like after you got that notice from the administrators and had such a difficult time? I mean, did you go into special classes or how was it for you?

Ellen Busch:
Sure. So it was emotionally devastating and frustrating in the subjects that I was weak at. So anything that required rote memory was a massive struggle for me. So when we're very young, we're memorizing our times tables and learning our spelling words, and that was incredibly difficult, and I consistently failed at it. I did learn that I could outwork everybody else to, so that's really what helped me get through it. Now, other subjects, like in the sciences and the social studies, I really excelled. So what was interesting was I had this contradiction. I was thriving in science and then failing my math.

Ellen Busch:
So it was incredibly frustrating because I understood. I understood that I wasn't intellectually disabled, but yet when I kept having these failures, it kept reinforcing that.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. And that kind of gets into your fiber of your esteem and how you feel about yourself, because, unfortunately, what happens is when we fail a class, we feel like we're a failure, rather than feeling like, oh, it was just the way that the subject was taught to me and the comprehension wasn't there because of the way that the problems were set up for me. We take it upon ourselves, and we feel bad about ourselves and our performance, because it's very self defining. It is, as adults, if we do a bad job at work, it feels that way. It feels like I'm a failure.

Ellen Busch:
And that's a great word that I hadn't used before, but self defining. Yeah. And at the same time, I had this contradiction of places where I did excel and just didn't make sense. But there was something deep down inside of me that just knew that the administrators who had written me off, I knew that they were wrong. I just knew it. And I couldn't really put my finger on it, and I knew I didn't understand it, but I knew I was just gonna keep going.

Jennifer Norman:
Hell, yeah. And I think that's part of your parents in you, too. Cause they believed that, as well. And so, absolutely, if they had just relented and just been like, oh, what do I do now? And I'm sure that that happens a lot. I'm sure. Because parents don't, unfortunately, know better. They feel like the experts are the administrators or the teachers that are taking that are with you in class all day, and so they lose hope. And the nice thing about what your parents did is they knew that you had so many strengths.

Jennifer Norman:
They knew that you had other things that were really going for you and that the be all, end all was not your grades, was not those specific areas where it became a bit harder for you to learn.

Ellen Busch:
Right.

Jennifer Norman:
Let's just enhance and focus on those other areas where you could shine.

Ellen Busch:
Yeah. That's exactly right. My father and I had a mantra, and when I would get discouraged, he'd say, come on, Ellen, you can do it. You can do it. You know you can do it. Prove 'em wrong.

Jennifer Norman:
Aw.

Ellen Busch:
And that carried all the way into when I was in college. Around finals, I would start to get overwhelmed, and I'd call my dad, and I said, dad, I need a pep talk. And you know what he used to say to me? I believe in you. You can do this.

Jennifer Norman:
That makes all the difference.

Ellen Busch:
It does.

Jennifer Norman:
Having somebody, a parent, a loved one, a friend who says, I believe in you. Can we be those people to others where when they're feeling down and feeling insecure, can we be that mirror to say, I believe in you. I know that you can do it. I know that you are a success. I know that this is difficult, but you can do it.

Ellen Busch:
Wow. Exactly.

Jennifer Norman:
Gorgeous.

Ellen Busch:
And that's why I like to tell this story, because I think other people and other parents need to hear it, that they can empower their child or adult child with that one sentence. I believe in you.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, it really causes me to remember the flip side. I was walking down a street and there were two young parents with a young child. He was a boy, might have been six or seven years old, and the mom was saying to the father, he's stupid. Can't you tell? Can't you see it? He's stupid, he can't learn. He just can't do it. And the boy was right there listening to the mom say this about him, and the father just didn't want to accept that. And to me, I just sat back and I looked at this unfolding before me, and I was thinking to myself, I don't want to interfere. It's not my place.

Jennifer Norman:
But, boy, I really hope and pray that this mom can see that that's not the way, that's not the way. She clearly got some sort of feedback from somebody and either in class or in an extracurricular activity that made her convinced that her son could not learn and that he was just stupid. And it just tore my heart to shreds.

Ellen Busch:
Breaks my heart.

Jennifer Norman:
It does. It breaks my heart. And I know that that happens over and over again, that we ourselves do not ever want to hear that about ourselves. I mean, that is just crushing, absolutely crushing. And frankly, not true. Frankly.

Ellen Busch:
Exactly. Yeah.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. And so my plea goes out to parents who are listening to this podcast, that they recognize the impact that our words can have on ourselves. When we say those words to ourselves more times than any, we're saying it to ourselves, oh I'm so stupid. I'm no good. I'm a failure. But saying it to a child, when your child has so much potential to learn different ways and perhaps is just at a crossroads at that moment where it becomes difficult for them to learn or to follow orders or to fit in, quote unquote. That does not mean that you have to just declare a certain sentence, as it were, on your child.

Jennifer Norman:
And to that end, I just want to inspire everybody to know that there are so many people who we know in history who are famous, that have openly discussed their experiences with dyslexia. Ellen was talking about MIT and NASA. Albert Einstein, the renowned physicist known for his theory of relativity, was dyslexic. Leonardo da Vinci, celebrated artist, inventor, and polymath of the Renaissance era, used to write all of his notes backwards. He was dyslexic. Steven Spielberg, Richard Branson, Tom Cruise, Cher, Pablo Picasso, Steve Jobs. All of these people were diagnosed with dyslexia.

Jennifer Norman:
And so there is a way for us to be able to say, okay, neurodivergency can be a gift. I can see the world differently, and this is the way that I am interpreting the world. And I see things either through pictures or I process information in a different way, and I can succeed in my own way.

Ellen Busch:
Mm hmm. Exactly.

Jennifer Norman:
So, Ellen, I'd love for you to share a little bit about you getting into adulthood. You graduate college, and you had become an adventure seeker, it seems like.

Ellen Busch:
Yes. Yeah. It started with my dad sending me on all those adventures, including getting certified to scuba dive at 17. That was another one. So, as supportive and as amazing as my parents were, there was still a lot of trauma. I had very low self esteem. Believed I was broken. I believed I was brain damaged.

Ellen Busch:
And despite the accomplishments, that was always there in the background. So I really struggled, really struggled with this battle. Accomplishment, low self esteem. Accomplishment. But low self esteem just going back and forth. It was awful. Eventually got married, and what I didn't understand was how pervasive the low self esteem and the trauma was. And unfortunately, I attracted a narcissistic man.

Ellen Busch:
And anybody who understands the narcissist understands that they are gaslighters, manipulators, controllers.

Ellen Busch:
And in my situation, people with low self esteem, I was a target. I was absolutely the target. And it caused. We actually had an incident of violence when I called him out on who he was. And then just to fast forward, I ended up, I had to plan and execute an escape in order to stay safe.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, my goodness.

Ellen Busch:
And that was a terrifying time for me. I had the support of family. I actually had spoken to an attorney, and she very, very well shook me up and said, you do not tell him you're leaving. You take what you want, and you go, and you do not announce it. You have to get out quietly and carefully. Okay. 70% of the women who leave an abusive marriage are killed the day they try and leave.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, my gosh. That's a shocking, shocking statistic.

Ellen Busch:
It's terrifying, which is why that attorney gave me the instructions that she did.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah.

Ellen Busch:
So, fortunately, that worked out. And then I realized I was in trouble. I realized I had a lot of work to do. I saw a pattern of me being my low self esteem being used against me, and being bullied by managers, by men just across the board, and by women as well. And I knew I had to take a long, hard look at myself in order to learn and understand why this was happening and how to heal it. This time, I got lucky. I got out alive, and if I didn't figure out what was going on, it was going to happen again and I might not get out alive. And I wasn't willing to do that.

Ellen Busch:
So I went to work with therapists, with coaches, and really took on this healing. Like, I took on learning as a child and, like, another challenge, like another Outward Bound, and I refused to be ashamed because once you take that off out of the equation, things get a little easier. And I went to work, and every day, things got a little bit better. First, I actually did reach my surrender point and looked up at the sky and said, I'm all yours. I need help. I was so traumatized, I was driving through red lights and stop signs. I couldn't function. So I really needed to take this on, and I did.

Ellen Busch:
And every day it got better. Every therapy session, it got better. Every coaching session it got better. And I learned to take care of myself, and I learned to meditate and do breath work and do yoga and take care of my physical body first. I went back. I started, I became a crossfitter.

Jennifer Norman:
Wow.

Ellen Busch:
That really helped me bring my body and spirit kind of back together. It reconnected me with my body because a lot of times when somebody suffers from trauma, they feel separated from their physical being. But I did all of these things at the same time, and I just kept working at it and working at it and moving forward, and things kept getting better. So I said, I want more of that. I want more of things getting better. And then it's interesting because then it started to transmute into, from healing and trauma, and there's still some of that there kind of energetic onions. There's always another layer. Yes.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, I love that.

Ellen Busch:
And then I kind of move that into it started to transmute into a journey of self discovery and learning to thrive. And that was when, as I've written in my book, around that time is when I discovered Commander Mark Devine's program. He's a retired Navy SEAL, and he's written five New York Times bestsellers, and he has in person and online training programs for civilians. And he teaches the breath work, the yoga, and then he also teaches the mental toughness and the emotional resiliency piece of it. And that's when I took on that program. That was when I really began to learn to thrive by training with these guys. And it was fun.

Jennifer Norman:
First of all, I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here, because you. I mean, it seems like there have been a few incidences where it might not have been. So let's just put it. Let's just put it that way.

Ellen Busch:
I consider myself lucky.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. And I, by God's grace, I'm so glad that you're here and able to tell this story of how you got to this point where you knew you had to do something, you did something, you sought help. You didn't try to do it by yourself. You sought help and you got the support that you needed in order to start seeing things a different way, in order to start that process of healing, which will continue. And it's a lifelong journey. We all know this. It's something that we are going to contend with. But you are in a place where you're stronger.

Jennifer Norman:
I love that you've called your book (dis)Eempowered, but you've crossed out the 'dis' part and you've moved from disempowered to empowered, and you were able to recognize that there is this strength within you, but it does come with helping to see and work with your body in a different way, work with your mind in a different way, start excavating all that junk that's in there and really helping to come out to this place where you no longer are living with these self limiting beliefs and calling yourself all of those negative things. And you're saying to myself, you know what? I am an awesome person. I have so much that I've been through, and now I want to help other people that are going through the same thing to see that there is a better way forward.

Ellen Busch:
And I think a lot of people survive something, and that's great, and that's where you begin. But I think a lot of people get stuck there.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah.

Ellen Busch:
And they don't know what to do. They don't know how to move into thriving. They don't know how to pursue their dreams. One of my big dreams was to move from the east coast to live in Colorado, and I did, and I'm here.

Jennifer Norman:
There's something about a change of environment, too, that can be extremely healing because sometimes we don't even realize the energy of a particular environment isn't a so conducive to our senses, frankly. And. Yeah, Colorado, oh, my goodness.

Ellen Busch:
It's just.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, that's breathtaking. So I definitely know what you mean, having grown up in New York myself and I'm in Los Angeles, which is...

Ellen Busch:
Oh, gosh. So, you know.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, I live where the sun shines a little bit longer.

Ellen Busch:
Yes.

Jennifer Norman:
But, yeah. Tell me about what you do now, your current work, because you are a coach, you're an advocate, and you work with others and parents of children with dyslexia. Tell me about that.

Ellen Busch:
I do. So I think the most important conversations I have with parents is helping them to understand what their child is going through and how detrimental it is and how mission critical it is to support them. So have a lot of conversations around that. And unfortunately, even with our increased knowledge and understanding and even in some of the best school systems, some of the struggles that these parents have shared with me are you terrifying? And even to the point where some children are showing are talking about suicide. So obviously, get them. Bringing in the professional credentialed help is absolutely critical for that, but it can be that serious. And helping parents to understand this isn't just a passing fad. This is a life altering event your child is experiencing in any way and every way that you can help them to find self esteem, self worth, self efficacy, that's what's going to make the difference.

Ellen Busch:
And your unconditional love and support, it matters. It really matters. And that's why I tell the story of my parents, because they did it. They did it right. And that's an example. So this is part of their legacy also, you know, me telling this story, and then I also coach. I'm coaching just general life coaching clients in the context of Mark Devine's unbeatable mind coaching model, which is incredibly powerful, and I love sharing it with people. I love seeing clients faces light up when they have an aha moment.

Jennifer Norman:
So what's one thing that you would want for people with dyslexia to know and feel? What would be that one thing?

Ellen Busch:
I would be crystal clear with them that this is not an intellectual disability. There is, in fact, most people, Einstein being a perfect example. I don't think anybody in their right mind would think that Albert Einstein had an intellectual disability. So know that you do not have an intellectual disability, and as a matter of fact, you have talents that you can tap into that aren't necessarily obvious to you right now. And they can be things like the visual spatial skills, the narrative skill. Steven Spielberg, obviously, quite the narrator. Yes, that skill. Many experts would say that that comes from his dyslexic abilities and then also abstract reasoning and really being able to see complex big picture ideas and how they all interact together, patterns that other people miss.

Jennifer Norman:
Wow.

Ellen Busch:
Yeah.

Jennifer Norman:
If we could only take a look at neurodiversity as a gift and say, you know, congratulations, you know, this is awesome. It's funny, because when I have similar conversations about autism, there are those...and because autism is on a spectrum, as is dyslexia, it's sometimes, it's a bit harder to see the gift. Yes, and certainly that could be the case with dyslexia as well. But reframing it in a way that means, like you, there is so much uniqueness, there is so much that it can offer if we see the good side, if we can lean towards positivity and knowing that it's not going to be as easy to get through certain types of learning and certain types of skills. However, there's a whole world that can open up to you. If you lean into where you thrive, where you see joy and where you find interest and intrigue,

Ellen Busch:
And where you could serve and where your purpose is.

Jennifer Norman:
Exactly. Exactly. So, Ellen, how can people get in touch with you if they are interested in coaching, learning more about you as well as your book?

Ellen Busch:
Sure. So my book is on Amazon or barnesandnoble.com. My webpage is ellenbusch.com. With that said, it is Busch like the beer, not like the president. Everybody gets that. Everybody gets that. I have to thank Anheuser Busch for their millions of dollars in marketing because everybody understands.

Jennifer Norman:
Everybody's just thinking in their heads now "Bussschhhhhh."

Ellen Busch:
Busch beer, Anheuser Busch, Budweiser. Okay, I get it.

Jennifer Norman:
Ellen, it was such a delight to have you on the show today. Thank you so much for the work that you're doing to shine a light on the positive aspects of dyslexia and to also help those parents and families who have dyslexia in their scope. So thank you so much for your work.

Ellen Busch:
Thank you for having me as a guest. It is an honor.

Jennifer Norman:
Thank you for listening to the Human Beauty Movement Podcast. Be sure to follow, rate and review us wherever you stream podcasts. The Human Beauty Movement is a community based platform that cultivates the beauty of humankind. Check out our workshops, find us on social media, and share our inspiration with all the beautiful humans in your life. Learn more at thehumanbeautymovement.com. Thank you so much for being a beautiful human.