Turn Adversity Into Adventure with Blind Resilience Coach Fiona Demark

Jennifer Norman [00:00:08]:

Hello, beautiful humans. Welcome to The Human Beauty Movement Podcast life lessons from beautiful humans. I appreciate you for tuning in today. And now that I have your full attention, I'd love to have you take a moment to hit that subscribe button because your support helps the algorithm move this podcast up the chain so more people can see it, hear it and benefit from it. Good karma will come back your way. One thousandfold. Now, I can't wait to introduce my guest to you. Fiona Demark is joining me today all the way from Melbourne, Australia.

Jennifer Norman [00:00:42]:

Now, Fiona is my kind of beautiful human. She is an adventure seeking, obstacle bounding, no regrets kind of girl that lives life to the extreme. And she does this all the while being legally blind. She's here to chat with me today about what it takes to be fearless and resilient despite obstacles that we might face. Welcome, Fiona.

Fiona Demark [00:01:06]:

Hello, thank you for having me.

Jennifer Norman [00:01:08]:

I'm so happy that you are here. So I want to talk about you because you are quite a phenomenon. I understand that you were born with a condition called Rodcone Dystrophy. Can you tell us what that is?

Fiona Demark [00:01:22]:

So essentially it took a long time to get to that answer, in fact, because it is actually quite uncommon and is very similar to a couple of other quite common sort of eye conditions. So retinitis pigmentosa is the thing that it's probably most commonly matched to, which is quite sort of well known within the vision loss community. It was like some of those things don't still quite match up. And then it was probably in my late teens that I finally got a correct diagnosis. And that was because I have two sisters that are older than me. The eldest one also has the eye condition, the one in the middle doesn't. And so it's just one of those weird sort of genetic things that happen. And the older sister sort of pursued getting a correct diagnosis because she was like, no, this still isn't right.

Fiona Demark [00:02:09]:

It's not right. And eventually when she was about 30, that helped me get a correct diagnosis as well. But I think what kind of impacted upon that a little bit was the fact that I grew up in a little town that was sort of literally in the outback and the closest capital city to go and have any specialist doctor attention was about 5 hours away. So was sort of like it went on a bit of an adventure and a holiday to go to see the eye doctor. But yeah, it was something that because it's my retina, it means that the cells on my retina are actually slowly dying. So the site has degenerated across the years. There's been some components of it that were there and present the whole time. So some things like not being able to see in dark areas or at nighttime has always been a problem.

Fiona Demark [00:02:55]:

But then as I've gotten older, the vision has deteriorated as more of those cells have died off. So they're not really sure. Maybe one day I'll go completely blind, maybe I won't. I don't know. It comes down to sort of weird numbers that they can't even really work out now, given the fact that I've probably maybe got about 10% of sight left. But work with what you've got, I guess.

Jennifer Norman [00:03:17]:

Sure. And so when you were a teen and you were diagnosed with this, ultimately, did you have 50% of your sight, do you think, or is there any kind of indication of how much you were able to see and what that was like?

Fiona Demark [00:03:32]:

Yeah, look, and it's interesting since I've sort of really started to look back and really delve into things, I think stress has a big impact upon my sight loss. And so I noticed there's been times in my life where I've been through severe sort of areas of stress just due to sort of things that happen. And those times seem to have either. I'm not sure whether they create vision loss, but they certainly make me more aware of it. And I don't know whether it's just because everything else is happening at the same time and then you just feel miserable and go, oh, well, that's another problem that I can add to the list. But yeah, so probably around sort of 1617, I noticed that there was quite a loss and I needed to sort of readjust what I was doing at school. So having to go to large print or having some kind of audio information rather than just sort of reading the textbook as everybody else did. And then again, probably maybe around about 30, I noticed that there was quite a significant loss.

Fiona Demark [00:04:29]:

But once again, maybe it was just because lifestyle kind of changed a little bit and the things that I had kind of adapted to when I changed my lifestyle, I needed to readapt what I was doing with my vision as well. Because the way that you manage vision impairment and many people with any kind of disability would probably agree is that the way you do things is based very much upon the way that you're capable. And in the instance of vision loss, well, you just kind of work around the things that you do every day to adapt to what you need to do. And so when something changes significantly, you've got to change all of those processes.

Jennifer Norman [00:05:07]:

Was your sister in a similar progression as far as her vision loss as well?

Fiona Demark [00:05:12]:

In fact, she actually lost her vision much faster. I'm not quite sure what happened. She ended up having her retina detach and then the other one started to do the same thing, which is quite nasty. So I don't know what her level of vision would be. I know one eye is definitely like zero and the other one would be very limited. So, yeah, she's had more significant loss than what I have. But there was a sort of bit of a glitch in the system, I guess, as well, that kind of created it, I'm not sure. But she's very successful and happy at what she does, and I think that that is so remarkable.

Jennifer Norman [00:05:44]:

The both of you are extremely successful, very positive, and I would love to understand what it was like in your childhood and what could have led you to come to this kind of attitude towards living that you currently have now.

Fiona Demark [00:06:04]:

And look, trust me, it didn't happen overnight. It's one of those things that was a gradual build, and probably only in the last five years or so, I've been very conscious about embracing my disability and going, you know what? It's part of me, it's part of who I am, and I need to work with it rather than against it. And I think the difficulty was, growing up where I did, I was the only person that had a vision impairment, my sister that has the condition as 13 years older. So she sort of wandered off and started to live her life before it sort of really started to impact me a lot as I sort of got into maybe high school age. And for me, it felt like I'm the only person that has a severe vision impairment. The only other people that I know that are blind old people or some people that went to school with he had to wear glasses because I was short sighted or something. And that was kind of it. And so it was very isolating.

Fiona Demark [00:06:53]:

And I think you just tried to sort of adapt as much as you could. And I think you built resilience around the things that didn't work and you just kind of had to adapt. And I think from that you have to then come up with this plan of, okay, well, how am I going to manage all of these things? And it's one of those things that I think when you have to adapt, it also means that sometimes it's like fitting in. And especially when you're in high school sort of age, you want to fit in with everything that you do anyway. And so I had this idea that just fit in, don't worry about the disability, just try to fit in and do everything. And in some senses, that's really good because it makes you sort of do what you need to do. But on the other side of that, it also means that you then don't take into account the fact that you are different and you are unique. And to be honest, there are things that you can't do.

Fiona Demark [00:07:47]:

And so to then get to a point where you can really embrace that, it's not easy, but it does actually take such a weight off your shoulders because all of a sudden you can just be yourself and go, you know what? My disability has made me who I am. And so therefore, let's celebrate that. Let's actually enjoy that because it's part of me. And instead of trying to ignore it or pretend that it's not there, it's like pretending that your foot doesn't exist. It's crazy. It's an integral part of the way that I live my life. I actually need to sort of be conscious of it and actually take into account the fact that it is actually a positive thing. It's made me who I am for sure.

Jennifer Norman [00:08:24]:

Now, were your parents always very open about this as well? Did they encourage you to try new things or sometimes parents can be helicopter parents when they feel that their child has some sort of a disability or what they might consider a vulnerability.

Fiona Demark [00:08:39]:

I think I was very lucky in the sense that they certainly weren't helicopter parents, in fact, were probably complete opposite in the sense of just go and do what you need to do. And sometimes that was probably quite dangerous. And look, they were certainly supportive in the sense that there was something that needed to be adapted at school when I was younger and sort of that initial explanation when I was young. As I got older, I kind of had to learn to advocate for myself and have those conversations, and that was really difficult. I had to still remember, I so embarrassed about telling the teacher that, oh, well, I can't see the board if you're writing on the blackboard and all of those things. And so I came up with this little especially because, of course, in high school, you have a different teacher for every subject. And I came up with this little plan, and so I used to write a little letter like, this is me. This is who I am.

Fiona Demark [00:09:30]:

This is my story. So I didn't actually have to have the conversation. I could just kind of hand the new teacher this little letter, this is who I am. And they'd read it and go, oh, okay, cool. And then off we'd go. But even then, it was quite embarrassing. So having good support is amazing. I think you've got to learn how to adapt yourself.

Fiona Demark [00:09:49]:

And so it went from my parents facilitating that process of let's tell people, to the point where I had to then tell people. But I think in the sense of resilience, it helped a lot, and it made me develop skills that I wouldn't have if I didn't have a disability. And look, some of that was just the way that you grow up in the sense of parenting can be a helicopter parent or not, regardless of whether your child has a disability, or you can get them to do things as they progress through life, to give them life skills. And I think potentially I see it in my own children now. My older daughter is just at the point of moving out of home, and she's really confident that she can cook and she can do the housework and she can do a washing and all of those things because she was taught to do them as she grew up. And I think it's not necessarily disability related. It's actually parenting is whether you someone said to me once, and it was amazing, you are there to support your children and give them the wings to fly independently themselves and so you're there to support them and give them that encouragement. But the end result is that you want those children to be able to fly independently by themselves.

Fiona Demark [00:11:05]:

And so there is a point where you kind of do have to push them out of the nest and make them do their own thing because you're not always going to be there on one day. They need those skills completely.

Jennifer Norman [00:11:14]:

I feel like a lot of children who might have had it perhaps a little bit too easy when they were at home are not as equipped to be out in the world and to be adults and tend to lean more on their parents, on their family, than perhaps others that are just they just figure it out. They go, they're a bit more independent, a bit more fearless. And certainly having a disability, such as a lack of 100% vision in any case, can be a bit daunting. But for your sake, it seems like you were able to just kind of make your own way. You just kind of learned that along the way. You might run into some issues, but in the end it's kind of like a good sense of humor can get you through a whole lot, can it?

Fiona Demark [00:12:00]:

Absolutely. And you've just got to work with it. Yeah. We all have things that we face in life, and life would be pretty boring when you think about it, if we didn't have all of these challenges and everything was just comfortable and nice, we'd just stay in the same place. We wouldn't grow, we wouldn't learn new things. And those challenges, although sometimes they make you feel not great at the time, there is always some kind of benefit from them. It's a learning in it. It's an opportunity to do something new.

Fiona Demark [00:12:26]:

It's potentially a way of meeting some new people. It's all sorts of things that sort of potentially are tied up in that particular event. But many of us just see, oh, it was terrible, and don't think about, well, what actually did I get from that?

Jennifer Norman [00:12:40]:

True. And I think about the fact that some people might see you and also say, my gosh, she found love, she's married. How did she do all that? I can't even do that and I don’t even have a disability. It's true. Or even I know that you actually use a cane, but have you named your cane, by the way? Your white cane?

Fiona Demark [00:13:02]:

I haven't. A lot of people do, but I haven't. But you know what? Maybe because it's like I've got more than one of them. So because I don't all of the time I kind of have them stashed in places. So there's sort of one in my bag that I take to work and there's one in the car just in case and there's one somewhere else and so it's probably like you're not allowed to have a favorite child. Well if I start naming them I'm going to have to come up with different names for all of them and then I don't know and then you don't know.

Jennifer Norman [00:13:30]:

It'll be too difficult to figure out each one of them out. I know I had heard some funny names like Michael Cane and things like that, which I thought were kind of cute, but yeah, you were able to use that. And people know and are predominantly respectful when they see that you've got a cane in front of you, they'll help you and sometimes when you're not using it. I had just learned that there is an international symbol which is the green sunflower. Can you tell us about the green sunflower?

Fiona Demark [00:14:02]:

Yeah, so the green sunflower is something that I think it was introduced in the UK and has Australia sort of within the last twelve months or so. And I've got one here.

Jennifer Norman [00:14:15]:

For those of you who are joining this on audio. It is a ribbon like a lanyard, which is green and it has sunflowers all over it in different sizes. Some of them are big and some of them are small and so people visible disability will wear it, right?

Fiona Demark [00:14:33]:

Yeah, that's right. And it's quite big being green and yellow. It's quite sort of obvious. They do have little badges and also little wristbands as well. And essentially the back end of it is the sunflower disability scheme will actually go and train organizations to be hidden disability aware and confident. So it's quite often things like airports, large shopping centers, hospitals, places where there's a lot of staff and essentially what it does is it identifies me as having a disability. And so for those people who maybe do have a hidden disability and there's a lot out there like everyone's sort of a little bit comfortable with, oh, well, there's obviously a blind person because they're using a cane or a guide dog, or there's a person that is using a wheelchair. So therefore, we kind of have a bit of a grasp about what that disability looks like.

Fiona Demark [00:15:26]:

But then all of a sudden when you've got hidden disabilities and neurodiversity is a perfect example where someone really may not be coping very well with a given situation, especially somewhere like an airport where you're stressed because you're doing something that might be a little bit anxiety provoking to start with. And then there's all these people and all these sort of bright lights and voices coming from everywhere. It can be very overwhelming. So to be able to identify yourself as well, hey, I may not cope in this environment very well, and to be able to have staff that understand that, then it just means that for an airport, for example, they kind of fast track you through. So instead of having to line up in the queue, maybe you get to go to the priority queue and get yourself sorted that way. So, yeah, it's an absolutely amazing thing and I think the more people are aware of it. So there is a hidden disability sunflower website that you can go and have a look at and obviously purchase the merchandise and learn a little bit more about it. And I think it's such an amazing thing to not have to have that conversation.

Fiona Demark [00:16:29]:

It goes back to that whole thing of me giving the teachers the letter. It's like, okay, well, I don't want to have this conversation about what is making me different, but if I wear this thing all of a sudden, then.

Jennifer Norman [00:16:41]:

You know, it's an understanding and that needs no explanation because it's already been in the training. I'm so glad to be able to bring some awareness to that. So if anybody sees somebody on the metro, if you see somebody out in a shopping center that has this, it's a good opportunity for you to say, hey, would you like a seat? Do you need anything? Can I help you with the door? Just showing a little bit of respect and compassion and understanding goes such a long way for everyone.

Fiona Demark [00:17:08]:

That goes for everything. I think we have turned into a society where we're very inwardly focused and I think showing that kindness just, oh, okay, well, do you need a seat on the Metro or would you it shouldn't even be a thing. Like you just sort of, oh, there's someone behind me, I'll keep the door open.

Jennifer Norman [00:17:29]:

Right.

Fiona Demark [00:17:30]:

I find that many of those little nuances of connection between people have started to disappear a little bit. And I don't know whether I think it was probably exacerbated by COVID, but I just sort of think you just remember those old fashioned manners. Sometimes it's like we forget to be kind to other people and just think outside of our own little bubble sometimes.

Jennifer Norman [00:17:52]:

Yeah. In my world, that is what I want it to be filled with nothing but kind and really considerate people, ones that really understand equity and thoughtfulness. That is really what I would love to build more of. Thank you for being part of that. And you are certainly doing your part to build that on your side of the world. Through resiliency training, adversity training, you're helping companies with their employees that may be going through a specific challenge or need a bit of motivation or inspiration. Can you tell me a bit about achieving your dreams and what your work is all about there?

Fiona Demark [00:18:30]:

Yeah. So in terms of corporates, I find that many people have got the right idea in the sense that we want to be inclusive. We want to have a diverse workforce but they just don't know how to do it or the policy. Maybe their people in culture department have an understanding and they want to sort of push that out to more of the business. However, your general person maybe has never experienced disability and doesn't understand it. And then all of a sudden when someone is approaching you saying, I'd like to work with you and you can think, okay, well, how do I manage this disability and how am I going to make this work? Oh my gosh, it's too hard, it's going to be too expensive, this person's going to be deficit to the company. And then it makes it really sort of difficult for that person to sort of go past that unconscious bias. So to get people to understand, I just go and tell my story and share with people what it's like to have a disability and how you can actually manage that.

Fiona Demark [00:19:29]:

And essentially people do not go for a job. Like I mean, very rarely is someone going to go for a job they know that they can't do and that goes exactly the same for someone with a disability. Like I'm not going to go and knock on sort of the airline's door and say, hey, I want to fly a plane. No, I don't think that's probably a great idea.

Jennifer Norman [00:19:48]:

That's something that you might do though, because you're an adventure seeker. But we'll get to that.

Fiona Demark [00:19:55]:

From a perspective of just making people aware and understanding and so then the next time someone does apply for a job and they can say, oh okay, yes, we are disability confident. You don't have to say we're accessible, we're inclusive, we're anything that sort of puts a big blanket across everything, even if you can just say, hey, yes, I'm confident to have a conversation about this. Let's work together and make this happen for you. I think that's the most important thing. And in relation to sort of more resilience and coaching, sometimes we just get stuck and we don't know how to proceed with those things that we really want to do. And everyday life is really busy and sometimes people just don't even have the time to think about all of the things that they needing to do to then get them to the places that they want to go. They're just caught up in get up, have breakfast, take the kids to school, feed the dog, all of those things. And all of a sudden a year's gone past and they're still doing exactly the same thing every day.

Fiona Demark [00:20:53]:

And it's the thing of New Year's resolutions. Like none of us keep them, do we? And that's because we just get caught in everyday life again. And so it's actually stepping outside of that and going, okay, well, what is the reason you want to have this dream or this goal come true? And then let's start to work on those baby steps and start to move towards whatever that is. And you might not have a capacity to do a big deal, but even if you've got this little everyday momentum towards that big goal, then you will get there.

Jennifer Norman [00:21:22]:

Oh, that's beautiful. I'm sure that a lot of people have really benefited from hearing your story. And I know that a lot of people are like, gosh, what an inspiration that you're living your life to the fullest. You've got abundance all around you. And so people can kind of step outside of their own situation and say, you know what? My life is really good. I have what it takes. I just have to practice or build self confidence, get those reps in, really feel that we can all be in this together. Everybody, despite their differences, everybody is unique.

Jennifer Norman [00:21:54]:

Every situation is going to be there to groom you to a better place. The challenge is there to your point, to make you stronger, to make you have more experience, to make you more resilient. If anybody has learned, I think this world has been we've gotten the life lesson in resilience over the last several years. All of us have.

Fiona Demark [00:22:13]:

Yeah. And I think the trick is just keep a forward focus. I think that's the thing is so many of us just get stuck in, oh, this happened to me and now I have to live my life according to whatever it was that's created that. And it's like, no, every moment is a new moment. Every day is a new day. You wake up, you have an opportunity to do something different. And just because the past is the past doesn't need to mean that it creates your future. And so you can create whichever future you want, but you have to be mindful of that and consciously do it.

Fiona Demark [00:22:45]:

Rather than just letting everyday life happen to you, you actually need to be part of actually making that change.

Jennifer Norman [00:22:52]:

Sometimes I find myself in those funks. I'm like filled with self doubt, feeling impostor syndrome, feeling like I'm just not good enough or not there. And it's almost like I have to just snap myself out of it. I'm like, you know what? Just do it anyway. What have you got to lose? Just do it anyway. Shake off all that icky stuff, shake off all that dust and really be fine. It's like the world needs for you to be your best you. Yeah, just go for it.

Jennifer Norman [00:23:21]:

And you definitely have stepped into your courage in a phenomenal way. You love to travel, you do all sorts of fun, adventure seeking things. Can you tell us a little bit about how you decided to really go out there and explore like that?

Fiona Demark [00:23:38]:

I think I've probably always had a bit of an adventurous streak in me. I was always sort of running around, getting up to mischief when I was a child, and I guess I went skydiving when I was 17, I've bungee jumped, I've done all the big things. But then I thought about it a lot about twelve months ago, and you know what? There's so many different activities that people might want to do and how accessible are they for people with a disability? And it goes back to what I was speaking about earlier in relation to disability confidence. It's like just to be able to have that conversation with a business, to say, hey, I want to go stand up paddleboarding, can this happen? And some places are just like, whoa, no, you've got a disability, that's not going to work for us.

Jennifer Norman [00:24:23]:

Are they worried about liability?

Fiona Demark [00:24:26]:

Because, oh my gosh, you're going to fall off and break yourself and then you're going to sue me. And no, that's not really what's going to happen at all. And in actual fact, I'm probably going to be safer than your average person because I've got to pay extra attention and be mindful about what I'm doing rather than just going then fall off and hurt myself. Yeah. So it's about finding those people that are then able to have that conversation and say, yes, okay, well, we might need to do this slightly different than your standard way of operation, but yeah, let's do it, let's take it on. And so those activities have meant that I have obviously sort of varied some crazy stuff. The best one I think, was jet ski. I spent a lot of time, my husband rides a sports motorbike, and so literally my seating position on that is smaller than an a four size piece of paper.

Fiona Demark [00:25:20]:

It's not designed for a pillion passenger, really. It's designed to race. So we've done 300 on the racing track together and I'm just like, oh, okay, cool. So a jet ski is just like a motorbike in the water, I'll be fine, no worries. And I'm like, get on it. And I think, oh, big comfy seat, this is fine. Oh, look, handles. Yeah.

Fiona Demark [00:25:44]:

I swear my fingerprints were left in those handles by the time we'd finished. It was terrifying. I didn't realize that obviously, when you are in the water, you're impacted by waves as well. So it's not just going along, it's like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, because the waves are coming to get you at the same time.

Jennifer Norman [00:26:04]:

Yeah. It jars your whole body and you've got to hold on.

Fiona Demark [00:26:08]:

And look, I'm not a particularly strong swimmer, so that added to the adventure a little bit as well because I'm like, oh, don't fall off, don't fall off, don't fall off. But yeah, so it's about pushing my own comfort zone, but it's also about hopefully making it a more accessible world in terms of people go away on holidays with their family and they want to go and do something a little bit adventurous to be able to knock on the door and say, hey, we're all here to do whatever. It is skydiving or whatever. And by the way, this is the situation that we need to work around and to have that business just go, Yep, no worries. We'll sort this out for you, rather than having one place I went was originally it was a spontaneous thing, oh, let's go and do this particular activity. And I found out that they needed medical sign off. And I'm just like, Whoa, okay, well, I was on holidays, so I was like, okay, well, that can't happen because my doctor's in Melbourne and this was somewhere else. And all of a sudden I'm like, oh, well, that's really not very helpful.

Jennifer Norman [00:27:09]:

Yeah, I would think that would be more the norm rather than the exception. It's like to me, I think that here a lot of companies would be like, oh, it's just too risky. And they would ask for some sort of a waiver or a sign off.

Fiona Demark [00:27:22]:

Which is terrible because it meant that I couldn't do that particular I mean, I went back and the next time I happened to visit that location but it meant that I couldn't participate. Because you're on holidays, you want to do things spontaneously right there.

Jennifer Norman [00:27:34]:

Yeah.

Fiona Demark [00:27:35]:

And it was like, oh, well, my doctor's not here, so therefore, no can't do it. And so that sort of thing is really, really frustrating. And look, fair enough, if you did your research, you would have found they've got information on the website and you could have found out that information beforehand. But I wasn't even looking for that. I'm like, you know what? It was climbing on the outside of a tower on a building. Yeah. And you're all roped in. It was just walking up and down a set of stairs, really.

Fiona Demark [00:28:04]:

And then you're attached to a pulley system.

Jennifer Norman [00:28:06]:

I was just climbing up a building. No big deal.

Fiona Demark [00:28:11]:

And look, I get it, but there's people that have got a fear of heights that would be more at risk of freaking out, causing a problem, than right. You can't even someone with a disability.

Jennifer Norman [00:28:22]:

Exactly.

Fiona Demark [00:28:24]:

But you didn't have to have a sign off if you were afraid of heights. But if you can’t see very well. Well, all of a sudden, yes, we need a medical sign off for that.

Jennifer Norman [00:28:32]:

And I'm like, I would think that that would be to your advantage, being up at that high and not being able to see down that far. So have you started a list of places that you would recommend? Because they're so accessibly friendly versus others that are yeah.

Fiona Demark [00:28:48]:

So I've been doing a little bit of a blog on my website and there's some videos up on YouTube and stuff of the things that I've done and the things that are really accessible and yeah, look, other than that place and look, once I did go back with my signed off piece of paper, the experience was amazing. But just the actual sort of process of it wasn't. So great. But yeah, no, I found as a whole, most people are quite accommodating and are willing to sort of work with me rather than against me. But then the answer is that I might contact if I want to do a particular activity, I might contact five different places and maybe only one or two of them ever get back to you. So the answer is those other places, they're not specifically saying, well, no, we don't want to do this. But by the no answer, it pretty much gives you that indication anyway.

Jennifer Norman [00:29:40]:

It's wonderful to see that there are places that are very open about letting people explore and enjoy their services as anybody can. It's very equitable. I think that the same thing goes for the fact that no matter who you are, you want to be able to do what you want to do. You want to be able to look the way that you want to look, you want to wear what you want to wear. And some people will often say, oh, well, if you can't see if you're blind, then why do you care about what you look like? Why do you care about what you're wearing? And I'm curious what your take is on that kind of a reaction.

Fiona Demark [00:30:17]:

And that's it. At the end of the day, I can't see myself in the mirror. However, I have this theory that everybody else has to see me, and part of me just wants to go, well, what like, the way that I look, the way that I dress, the way that I wear my hair all has a part of my creativity and my self expression. And so just because I can't necessarily see myself, it doesn't mean that I don't know what I'm portraying to the outside world. And so if I decide that I want to have pink hair, then I know I've got pink hair and other people don't necessarily have pink hair. So then all of a sudden I'm showing myself as doing something different and it's really interesting. I don't know actually, I was thinking about it the other day. I got no clue what other people look like.

Fiona Demark [00:31:01]:

Like, I only can walk around in the shopping center. I mean, I don't know what the latest hairstyle is. I have no clue. So I just have to kind of make it up for my own self and decide how to do my creativity rather than be impacted by whatever the latest fashion is or the latest styles. Because I'm not reading the magazines. I'm not looking on the Internet and comparing myself to other people, and I'm not seeing those other people in person, even in the public. So it is just literally make it up as you go and be happy with what it is rather than that whole comparison towards other people.

Jennifer Norman [00:31:34]:

Yeah. Do your daughters ever say anything? Or your husband, does he say anything as far as, oh, I like what you're wearing today.

Fiona Demark [00:31:46]:

Look, I think I've probably got a sense of style and understanding from my daughters. And definitely the older one helped me a lot with she would watch YouTube videos as she was growing up and learn how to do her own makeup and then come and practice on me. And then she's like, oh, we'll do this, do this. So instead of like I mean, I was taught to do makeup 30 years ago or something ridiculous. Obviously, the trends and styles have changed since then, and so to have that extra input from someone that was younger has made a huge difference. And look, I do rely on my husband for certain things, like maybe I can't remember because I tend to go and buy if I like the style of a shirt, I'll go and buy three shirts in different colors, but the same style. And then I'm like, oh, I've got my wardrobe color coded, but if I happen to wear two of those shirts in the same sort of washing period, then I'm like, oh, well, I don't remember which one's which. Now there are all these tricky coding systems and stuff that you can do and sort of barcode things so it'll read it off to you when you put your phone near it or whatever.

Fiona Demark [00:32:50]:

But I'm like, just go and ask the husband. It's so much easier. And I rely on him to sort of use things like the old philosophy of, can you see whatever I'm wearing underneath through my top, for example.

Jennifer Norman [00:33:04]:

That might be important.

Fiona Demark [00:33:06]:

Yeah. So things like that, that you don't ever realize until sort of someone points them out. And so to have somebody to be able to do that, or he tells me, oh, it's time to go and see the hairdresser. Like, you've got too many grays starting to show through. So there's things that I do rely on somebody else for. And yeah, I think it is. It's about definitely creating my own sense of style. And then for sure, if it's totally out of whack, then so be it.

Fiona Demark [00:33:32]:

As long as I'm happy, doesn't matter.

Jennifer Norman [00:33:34]:

And that's really what it's all about. It's like your own happiness, your own joy, and whether or not you care or not, some people just don't care. Some people care a whole lot. It's very much a part of their identity. And that's okay too. It's like whenever I see somebody living in their truth, it makes me feel a lot of joy. I'm like one of those weirdos that's, like, I'm like the ultimate hype queen, that it just really makes me happy to see people feeling comfortable enough to express themselves. Because I was one of those people that, unfortunately, when I was young, I wasn't able to.

Jennifer Norman [00:34:07]:

I felt very insecure and I felt very self conscious about what I was wearing, what I did, what I would say. And so I pretty much just went super introverted and super super shy for a long period of time. And me actually being able to find my voice and do a podcast like this was part of my own process of being comfortable with having something to say and having a platform to help others share how beautifully human that they are, just like yourself. And I really thank you so much for being on the show. I think that you've really been able to, no pun intended, open a lot of people's eyes to what it is like to have a disability such as blindness, the fact that it isn't a situation where you have to rely completely on other people. You are able to do so much and really conquer a lot of myths about what it means to have a visual impairment or a certain level of blindness, and also what it's like to really be able to establish a life that is fearless. And I think a lot of people can really find a lot of good insight and valuable inspiration in what you have to offer. And so, yes, I will certainly put all of your information in the show notes because I would love for people to engage with you and find out a little bit more about you and what you're about, find your TikToks and all those fun things that you do.

Fiona Demark [00:35:35]:

I've only just started TikTok. I was so like, no, I'm doing the other things. And to be honest, Instagram originally I joined so I could stalk my children when they were younger to make sure they weren't up to putting too much mischief on the Internet. And then I was like, okay, I can do instagram. And then TikTok came along, and I'm like, oh, no, I'm not doing TikTok. And then I'm like, okay…

Jennifer Norman [00:36:01]:

You don't have to do the dances if you don't want to.

Fiona Demark [00:36:04]:

And look, to be honest, TikTok was a really interesting process because actually, I don't do it myself, I do the videos myself. However, all the little extra bits that go on TikTok, I actually have a friend that does that for me because great, I can't actually do all of those things because TikTok is not accessible.

Jennifer Norman [00:36:24]:

Which is terrible, I hope that you are listening TikTok. It's time for you to step up to the plate.

Fiona Demark [00:36:31]:

So Instagram got there eventually. Like it was a little bit clunky to start off with and Instagram is actually quite good. Now. Facebook obviously pretty much the same, LinkedIn pretty good. But I've heard TikTok still has a long way to go with coding their product. So it then reads out properly with the screen reader because it is a very tricky thing to is it is.

Jennifer Norman [00:36:55]:

Well, thank you so much for coming on the show today, Fiona. It was an absolute delight to speak with you.

Fiona Demark [00:37:01]:

Thank you. It was lovely to meet you. And I'm so glad that we can get the message out.

Jennifer Norman [00:37:06]:

Thank you for listening to The Human Beauty Movement Podcast. Be sure to follow rate and review us wherever you stream podcasts. The Human Beauty Movement is a community based platform that cultivates the beauty of humankind. Check out our workshops, find us on social media and share our inspiration with all the beautiful humans in your life. Learn more at the HumanBeautyMovement.com. Thank you so much for being a beautiful human.