Sustainable Beauty Explained - Packaging & Purpose with Andrea Chase

Jennifer Norman:
What if the beauty industry, one of the biggest consumer industries on the planet, became a true force for healing our world instead of harming it? Today's guest is one of the women helping to lead that transformation. Andrea Chase is the vice president of corporate responsibility and social impact at the beauty company Arbonne. And she's one of the most respected sustainability leaders in the B Corp movement. Andrea is a powerhouse strategist with deep, deep roots in the world of consumer goods, manufacturing and environmental consulting. But what really makes Andrea truly extraordinary is her ability to take big, often intimidating concepts like climate action, packaging reform, and regulatory change and translate them into practical, hopeful human solutions. She serves as co chair of the supervisory board for the B Corp Beauty Coalition, a global alliance pushing the beauty industry toward regenerative, equitable, planet positive practices. She's also the founder and managing director of Way to Be, where she helps companies embed sustainability into every corner of their business.

Jennifer Norman:
In this conversation, Andrea will demystify sustainability in a way that feels empowering, not overwhelming. You'll learn how packaging and ingredient sourcing is evolving, why new regulations are reshaping the products that we buy, how to build a culture where sustainability isn't an afterthought, but a shared mission, and what the future of the B Corp movement means for all of us who care about better business. Most of all, you'll walk away knowing this real change isn't just possible, it's already happening. And leaders like Andrea are lighting the way. So let's get ready to learn something good today. Hello, Andrea. Welcome to the show.

Andrea Chase:
Thank you so much for having me, Jennifer. It is a real pleasure to be here with you today, to say the least.

Jennifer Norman:
I have been so looking forward to our conversation. We both sit on the Beauty Coalition, which is an amazing, amazing alliance of such great companies and such great people, frankly, who are coming together to not compete with each other as most beauty companies do, but actually collaborate and make things better. So to begin, I want to start out by saying that you have become such a respected voice in sustainability and in the B Corp movement. I'm curious, what first sparked your passion for this kind of work?

Andrea Chase:
Oh, that is such a good question. And it's so funny. I think we have to go back to kind of like the core of who I am as a human being and my interests since I was a little kid, which has always been very much nature centered. Like, I grew up in Los Angeles, born and raised, and I spent a lot of time at the ocean I and between that and my love for rocks and geology, just like natural sciences have always been something that really interested me. And so it's really been one of the core drivers for my experience in my career is how do I work towards achieving things that help support planetary health. I did not start my career in sustainability to say the least, as many of us do. I mean, 15 years ago when I started my career, not to out myself, but 15 years ago when I did, I there was not a normal sustainability department, it was not a normal function in businesses. So it's been really cool to see me kind of grow up in my career alongside this whole sector of business which is now a very firm root in so many businesses for a lot of reasons, which I'm sure we'll get into.

Andrea Chase:
So it was just a huge... When I first started my career I started working for normal businesses and I just, something wasn't resonating. I was like, yes, this is nice to have. And I always wanted to pick up sustainability projects here or there, but it wasn't a core focus. And then in about, I think 2013 I started working for a company and they said they wanted to be a B corp. And I had never heard of the B corp movement at that point in time. It had only been around for about seven years at that point and there were only, I think about 700 companies in the entire world certified. Now we're up to about 10,000.

Andrea Chase:
It's wild. I mean talk about exponential growth. And when I did my first certification I went through all these questions because it's an audit and you get answer to all of these huge questions about your business and how it functions on all of these different pillars. And, and I was sitting there and I said, I just don't understand why all businesses aren't looking at this because it's such a positive impact on the culture for the people on the planet, which is of course the why I come to work every single day, that love for the planet and all of the other things that can make your business efficient because your people are happy and what you're doing is responsible and all of these other things that add up to just a feel good moment for internal culture. And so I just kind of got the bug and was like, I never, I don't want to work for a mission driven organization after this. It just doesn't make sense to me because in my world everyone should be living by their mission and making good choices for people and planet. So that was really the start of me embarking on this, I guess B corporation driven journey into sustainability within my career.

Jennifer Norman:
Wow, that is so familiar where you feel like you're in this organization or you're part of something and something just doesn't sit well with you. You're like, do I feel like I am just, like, giving a part of myself away or not living up to what is right or what I feel like I want to do with my life? And to be able to do that is so rewarding because you really wake up with motivation. You don't dread getting up and doing what you're doing. You really love it. And you know that it's for a greater good. You know, it's for a higher cause than just putting a paycheck into the bank account.

Andrea Chase:
Totally.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. I love that you really just found this resonance with mission driven, purpose driven, and then combining your love for the earth and for the planet. That's absolutely amazing and makes perfect, perfect sense as we connect those dots. So for listeners who might not be familiar with sustainability beyond just basic recycling, because everybody kind of knows about that, how would you define in the most simple terms what sustainability is and why it's so important?

Andrea Chase:
Yeah, sustainability really is leveraging the power of your business as a force for good. That is the most simple way to put it, in my opinion. And that force for good should really center on your impact on people and the planet. Those are the two biggest pillars. A business is a business, it is not a nonprofit. So of course profit is inherently important in it. But as a sustainable business, you need to be taking a close look at the impact of your people internally, through your supply chain, through your actual tangible suppliers, through the farmers, through everyone in between, the resonance on your customers, really everyone within that people, stakeholder lens. And in addition to that, the planetary lens, which also intersects with your products, as you mentioned, end of life of products, recycling.

Andrea Chase:
Again, you're looking at suppliers because the ingredients and how they're sourced is so important with what, especially within beauty. You're putting this on your skin. It's absorbing into your body. There's so many things that can impact you. But sustainability in business really is focusing on that holistic lens of people and the planet. And so you have your employee welfare, your suppliers, you have your community impact. So if you have foundations or other ways that you're meaningfully contributing back to your local communities or the global community. And then, of course, the environmental impact.

Andrea Chase:
And then the littlest known part of this is actually the ethics and checks and balances that you put in place to ensure within your business that you're moving towards being a force for good, for all of those stakeholders that we just mentioned.

Jennifer Norman:
Mm, yes. I remember a long time ago when I was working for a Fortune 500 company, the first time that we were at this massive sales meeting and somebody asked the CEO of the company, what are we doing about sustainability? And the CEO just looked at the person like, what do you mean? Because at that time people think like, oh, okay, is this sustainable then? Is it something that we can do for the long haul? But they didn't really know about the whole incorporation of the idea of environmental sustainability. And the reason why it came up is because a retailer was asking, a significant retailer was asking about it because they were making the initiative to try to push for greater sustainability. And the reason they were doing it was because the consumers were, were asking for it and clamoring for it. So it really was something that came about from the natural movement and from us realizing everything that we're doing in manufacturing and business. Like we are overproducing, frankly, we are doing too much and we are consuming too much toxins from the ingredients that we're using and creating so much waste. And so it's impacting our environment, it's impacting our climate, it's impacting the longevity and the sustainability of our earth and our own human health, frankly. And so it has this whole symbiotic approach, approach to how are we as humans going to sustainably survive on this planet? How is the planet going to sustainably survive? And of course, how do businesses contribute to that sustainability through not even just environmental alone? And I'm so glad that you mentioned all these other aspects because it's like, yes, are we burning out our employees? Is it a sustainable business that we are telling them to work crazy hours or give so much of their work life balance just to work and forgetting about family? So it's about all of those different aspects kind of bundled together that cause us to think we are in this for the long haul.

Jennifer Norman:
This is not just about short term gains, which I think a lot of business typically is about. But the B Corp movement and others that are so passionate about sustainability are really talking about what is the long term health and viability of everybody and our planet all combined together.

Andrea Chase:
Absolutely. And they're so interconnected too. Like how do you have a long term business from if you just want to talk sustainable financial business, if you're basically over exhausting all of the resources that are the inputs going into your business or your workforce? So it really does. It's so interesting because I feel like sustainability has kind of gotten a bad rap in the years it's more expensive, which is not necessarily true anymore. As you've seen business innovations, packaging innovations, other things, advancements in transparency, regulations, pushing sustainability forward. It started with consumers and you saw businesses really reacting to that consumer need for understanding sustainability, for having options that were never around before. And now you actually see regulations catching up to consumers, which is really great because folks like me, who always were a nice to have sector in a business, are now a core part of how businesses must function, especially on a global level, for big players to meet climate action regulations coming out of Europe, to meet transparency regulations coming out of Europe. A lot of this is European led.

Andrea Chase:
And then it trickles into North America and you're starting to see things like even what we call EPR or extended producer responsibility laws now being passed in Canada and the U.S. where you have to pay taxes on plastic packaging because it's not as recyclable. So these systems have changed. They started with the consumer, but I'm so, so proud to see this evolution into governance externally of businesses and then really pushing, putting pressure on businesses internally to have a culture that adapts to these things. So it is a whole new world of sustainability. It keeps me on my toes, to say the least. There's a new law every day, but it's also very exciting because it's really moving towards consumer protections, employee protections, and planetary protections.

Jennifer Norman:
Absolutely. You mentioned plastic. You mentioned EPR. Let's talk about packaging for a moment because it is something that obviously in the beauty industry, let's face it, we all love pretty packaging. We, a lot of people will be like, I don't care what's in it. I just, I love the way this looks. It's either on my vanity or in my bathroom. And it just makes me feel good.

Jennifer Norman:
And a lot of times that package that you think is so beautiful, it goes into the landfill and it will like, never break down. It'll never break down. So tell us what is going on now in terms of the continued challenges with packaging and what companies are actually doing in order to get to more things. Sustainable solutions.

Andrea Chase:
Absolutely. And I think it's so important before we dive into the nuts and bolts of all those changes that we need to help build what we call a circular economy. It's really important to keep in mind that what's better for the planet is often better for humans too. And that goes for ingredients. And that also Goes for our packaging, because packaging can leach chemicals into your formulas. So you have all these amazing clean beauty brands out there, but then you put the packaging in something like an ABS plastic or a type of plastic that's not recyclable. It can also be impacted, impacting the performance of your formula too. So I think it's really important to start thinking about packaging not as secondary, but also a very primary part of whether this product that you're consuming is actually good for you.

Andrea Chase:
Of course, there's the whole planetary aspect as well, where you have recycling, you have the end of life, you have the inputs that go into that package itself. And it's so funny because I remember before I really dove into the beauty industry, which I've been working in for about seven years now, and I worked in green infrastructure before that. So it was a very, very different world. I myself would purchase all these, as you said, beautiful packages, metalized plastic caps that look like aluminum but aren't really like news flash, all of those things are often not recyclable. We should be looking for consumers, in my opinion, for inert packaging, which is really made of what we would call renewable materials, glass, metals, things like that, where you don't have necessarily an interaction with the ingredients. So now you have something that's not only recyclable from an end of life perspective, but you have something that's also better for you on a human perspective too. So it's crazy because everyone always says it's a system thinking approach to sustainability, but everything is so interconnected that it's really important to call those things out. So overall, the packaging landscape is changing so quickly.

Andrea Chase:
We have all these new emerging regulations on what we call extended producer responsibilities that are effectively taxing businesses if they are not designing their products with the end of life in mind. What's end of life? That's whether it goes to a landfill, whether it can be recycled, whether it can be locally composted or industrial compost, or better yet, refillable and reusable, which is where I'm really excited to see our industry moving towards. Because then you can have that luxury of like, is this an actual wooden piece for a lipstick, for instance, that you replace? And you have such a good experience from a consumer perspective, it looks amazing on your counter for your shelfies to say the least. But it's also better for the planet too. So I really do think we're seeing this new emergence of trends around sustainability. And you see it in the high end brands starting to pilot out refillables like YSL and these other big players that are really moving huge consumer markets towards sustainability. And it's driven by consumers like we talk about, which is really exciting.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. I remember a while back when Credo first came out with the Stop Single Use Plastic petition and The Human Beauty Movement was one of those signatories because we felt like the samples, the sachets, those little things that you use one and done and then just toss it in the trash, or we say toss it in the recycling. But let's face it, things that go into municipal recycling, a lot of it does not get recycled because consumers don't wash them out. They don't peel off the labels. A lot of those items are multi layered plastics that cannot be taken apart or recycled. And so it just doesn't make sense. So like those single use sachet masks, do not buy those, don't buy, single use anything. I mean, that's one thing that we can do as consumers is to say, you know what, we'll buy in bulk or we'll buy things that we know can actually, actually be refilled or recycled, reused, all of those things.

Jennifer Norman:
And so these are simple things that we can do. And it is very cool to see luxury companies, we'll call them luxury, like a YSL, actually getting on board and saying, you know what, it's time for us to be responsible. It makes me mad when I see new product launches coming out with this ridiculous packaging that you know is like acrylic and thick and metalized and all of these things. I'm like, who's making these decisions? Like they just don't understand the decisions. And who are these packaging companies that are selling, still producing these kinds of packages? We have to make sure that our decisions are driving those kinds of products out of the market completely because they just don't make any sense. They really don't. There's some beautiful solutions that are completely sustainable these days and just being a bit more aware of them, luckily retailers are catching on board and they'll say, no, this isn't something that I want to be selling in my marketplace, et cetera. But unfortunately, there's a lot of others that they just don't have those kinds of, of checks and balances on things like that.

Jennifer Norman:
So it's very good for us all to know that we can vote with our dollars by making just more conscientious choices. Are there other kinds of beauty decisions or beauty throughputs that make you very optimistic that we're moving in the right direction?

Andrea Chase:
Yeah, yeah. And I think it's so hard because we've seen companies starting to respond to the consumer pressure, which is great, but it's often seen as a nice to have still. So this regulatory pressure that we're seeing is where we're going to start to see real action being taken. Because now not just a nice to have, you really have the carrot, which is the nice to have, but you have the stick coming down, which is governance as well. And so as we look at regulatory pressures, I think one of the other areas that is a huge challenge, but I'm very optimistic around is modern slavery and what we would call like duty of vigilance in your supply chain. So what does that mean? It's very common to think that we as a modern society, in a global society, in a global economy have transparency within our supply chains. We do not. The reality is that you have so much subcontracting where you have a large player that's, you know, contracted with a supplier who's then subcontracted and subcontracted and it becomes this Russian nesting doll of subcontracting where you lose sight on your ingredients, your packaging, the people who are producing these things, who are farming them.

Andrea Chase:
And so one of the things that I am a bit more optimistic around is changes in compliance that companies will need to move towards for transparency and supply chains. Why is this important? It has to do with environmental degradation, especially within beauty, when you're looking at botanically based ingredients and how they're farmed and how they're sourced, which has a health impact too because more pesticides in farming results in non organic or results in all of these other things that lock out specific certifications for health or wellness. And then you also see it from the people side of things. So modern slavery is a real problem and we've seen unfortunate incidences like what we call the Rana Plaza incident a few years ago, where folks unfortunately did not realize they were being produced at a factory that had labor conditions, had other environmental health issues that collapsed in on itself. And huge brands basically realized only that they were producing at this factory after it had collapsed and resulted in unfortunately many deaths in Bangladesh. So it really was this come to awareness moment for our industry and for the fashion industry as well, that we need awareness of what's going on deep within our supply chains. Because you see compulsory labor issues, you see child labor issues, and this is especially around key ingredients within beauty like mica, where you it's very normalized to see children mining for mica, which is completely unacceptable. So transparency is another huge aspect outside of circularity, where we have a huge challenge ahead of us.

Andrea Chase:
But there's an awareness and a commitment within the industry to ensure that we're moving in the right direction. And transparency is the only way to move forward. And that goes for recycling, too. Like, how do you know what to recycle? How do you not know what to recycle? It's so different based off of your pony, your marketing market, everything in between. So really demystifying transparency on the consumer side from the ingredients and where they're coming from and the way that they're sourced, and then at the end of life side is really giving me optimism because that means we can all make better choices and we're creating better products and a better supply chain and a better economy that's rewarding people for good behavior instead of bad behavior as well.

Jennifer Norman:
Exactly. I hear some banging in the back. Not that I'm not listening to exactly what you're saying, but it's...it's your doggies, right?

Andrea Chase:
It is. It's my doggy. Let me open my door. Cause he keeps... I was hoping you wouldn't be able to hear it. If he's in here, he will be quiet, though. Okay.

Jennifer Norman:
It was so funny because at first I was like, oh, is she, like, very emphatic and banging on the desk? And then I was like, I think it's the dog at the door. Yes.

Jennifer Norman:
We love furry friends, so we're okay with them.

Andrea Chase:
Okay.

Jennifer Norman:
We don't want to lock them out. We can let them in. They can make an appearance. Yes.

Jennifer Norman:
We must talk about the difference in regulatory climate between Europe and particularly America, because it seems like there is quite a divide at this very moment where Europe is getting more stringent and is really calling businesses to arms to really propagate sustainability and to really be accountable for their actions with a lot more regulations, with a lot more compliance needs and transparency. In the United States, it's not necessarily that way. As a matter of fact, it almost seems like it's being pulled back a little bit.

Jennifer Norman:
Can you talk a little bit more about this?

Andrea Chase:
Yeah. It's pretty tough for me, especially as somebody who's dedicated my life to protecting people and the planet through building stronger economies that take those things in mind. It's really upsetting to see the rollback of environmental regulations and social impact regulations and even just generalized support in the US. But I do think we need to take a pause and really reflect on the fact that this is temporary and there are enough of Us that are very concerned and excited about these types of changes, that although the environment is not necessarily the friendliest at the federal level right now, we will continue to make progress and we will not move away. You see it in green energy where it's just a cheaper option at this point compared to alternatives. So you're not seeing the de investment despite the de incentivization of economic contributions to those types of industries. So although there is a great divide between Europe, which is again leaning into things like, like modern slavery transparency, ingredient transparency, they have higher regulations, they ban 1400 ingredients that are allowed in the United States that are not allowed there for health and safety and environmental reasons as well. They have always led by example and have been a step ahead. But there is beacons of hope within America. It might not be on the federal level, but it's on the state level.

Andrea Chase:
You've seen within the last two years six different states release what we call EPR, extended producer responsibility laws on the end of life of packaging. Every single territory in Canada has this now too. Because to make these systemic changes work, you have to invest in infrastructure, recycling infrastructure, for instance. So to tax folks to fund those is necessary. And the states are saying we can't wait for federal regulations like we've seen with water, like we've seen with air, like we've seen with other types of topics that have not been rolled out for waste specifically. So although that's not comprehensive against all of the laws that Europe has in place, you do see states starting to pick up select areas and actually put in place new laws on a state level that can't be impacted by the federal level to ensure that we're moving towards where we need to go and so that the states can just function and invest in infrastructure too. So California is one of the most interesting ones I know we're both Los Angeles and so it's really exciting. We very much believe in...

Jennifer Norman:
Thank goodness. I love California so much. I'm just, yeah, yeah, this is my home and I'm so proud.

Andrea Chase:
Yes. And you see us actually starting now to set the national precedence. So one of the biggest things that we saw is a plastic act that was passed a couple of years ago that basically will ban all items on your consumer storefront and sold into the state that is not recyclable by 2032. That is a huge, huge shift for businesses and for us at Arbonne, like a large business. We need to start putting in place actions now to ready ourselves in that seven year trajectory because there's a lot of actions that need to be taken. Like you got to move into mono material pumps so they can actually be recycled and they're only made of one material. Instead of having all these different metal balls and springs and plastic componentry and other things, you need to remove metalized plastics which are just icky in general. That process is so toxic to say the least.

Andrea Chase:
It's awful. You need to move towards circularity and refillability and reusability. And so as they're starting to to like basically put in place these frameworks, it is gonna drive change on a national level. So every day I read the news and I get a little bit more depressed. But at the same time I know that there is all of this pressure from those of us in the global market, from Europe and then of course we have our blue state heroes that are really driving these types of changes around the environment that I so personally believe need to be done with the state of business.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, there are definite headwinds. But for those of us who know that it is still important, that it is still something that is not a hoax as some would like us to believe climate change and climate action is, then you will recognize that it's something that we are doing for our own long term. Sustainability, our health, our wellness, the longevity, all of those things to make things more livable for the next generations to come, including ourselves. Because things are happening so quickly. I mean look how quickly we're seeing all of these unusual diseases come about from decisions and choices that big businesses had made just a decade ago. I mean they are impacting our kids now. So let's turn to how B corps, especially in beauty, are helping to shape the future of ethical regenerative business.

Jennifer Norman:
You are the co director of the B Corp Beauty Coalition which The Human Beauty Movement and Humanist Beauty are proudly members of. And I sit on the supervisory board with you. I would love to hear what this, this alliance is about, in your words, and what it is doing. What the whole intention is of this alliance in terms of helping to transform the beauty industry as a whole.

Andrea Chase:
Yeah, and I think we're so lucky with our coalition because we're such like minded businesses that it's been very easy to form a pre competitive environment that's focused on innovation, where you share best practices with each other. Because if we're all these amazing innovators in social equity change or environmental change within the industry, why would we not be knowledge sharing together? It is so incredibly hard to be a certified B corporation. For those of you out there who are not aware of the movement, look for the logo. You will start to see it everywhere. Once you're aware of it, it will haunt you in your grocery store aisles. But it is also a beacon of hope. So it is measuring all of our businesses across 1500 or so questions and indicators and proof points when you have to certify against your actions for work, people and planet. So this community is really that top 1% of sustainable businesses globally and a really, really wonderful community to be able to bring together for change.

Andrea Chase:
And our change again is focused on regenerative economies and equitable economies. So how do we build that within our industry that can come to life through things like advocacy campaigns? We just had an amazing campaign where so many of our businesses signed on to Climate Action pledges for top 30. And one of our huge hero board members, Char (Love) from Natura, actually went to Brazil and presented this to folks which was really exciting. Demanding essentially that others catch up with our Climate Action as certified B corporations. Otherwise we will not have ingredients to source, we will not be able to farm agriculture the way that we have before and we will not be able to create sustainable packaging either as they're all interconnected. We also really focus on mentorship within shared collaboration. Again, we're all innovators redefining success. Like Arbonne has done in incredible stuff with water conservation in our manufacturing, which actually inspired Davines, which is a huge player in Italy within hair care, to look at their own water consumption.

Andrea Chase:
And now they have very similar goals. And so it's this very exciting pre competitive environment that's inspiring everyone to really look at efficiency, engagement, sustainability and all of those things are really interconnected to move towards change throughout our industry. The other part of it is not just within our industry on the back end, but how do we help help consumers understand what's better for you, what's better for the planet. And that's where we want to put out there a lot more resources. And that'll be actually our focus, as you're very well aware for next year, is how do we help educate the larger consumer base that hey, you guys should be buying from companies that are supporting your values. And then how do you identify these companies, which is one of the biggest challenges that we see in modern consumer trends around sustainability, is that folks want to do better, they want to invest in value based purchasing, but they have no idea what that actually means. We have this slew of certifications, we have self assessments put on packaging that mean nothing. So how do you help consumers be educated enough to, for lack of a better word, read through the BS of greenwashing that is just so superfluous out there.

Andrea Chase:
And that is one of the many things that we're trying to tackle too, which is really, who can you trust within these industries to really represent, you know, ingredient health, non toxicity equitability, and then of course, circularity and all of the other sustainability aspects within products as well. So it's a long, a long haul. We have a lot of work ahead of us, but we really want to make sure that we're focusing on innovation that's not only going to drive consumer actions, but business actions and align all of our values together into one.

Jennifer Norman:
Absolutely. On top of this, this all I know that a lot of consumers right now, a lot of people out there, families, are really in a bind. A lot of them are living paycheck to paycheck and they're like, I just want to get whatever costs the least. I'd love to be able to buy sustainable and all of that, but oftentimes it's not the lowest price point. I can go on Amazon and do comparison shopping, I can look for this and I can look for that. And a lot of people are just like, I just want to be able to work with my budget and be able to take care of my family. What would you say to folks like that who just believe that it's not accessible to buy something from B Corp or to buy something that is environmentally conscientious when it seems to cost more?

Andrea Chase:
Yeah. And you know, in some cases it does, and it's really disheartening because you want to make sure that everybody has the opportunity to access these things. But in other ways you can find brands that really do a good job on all of the front, front. Everything comes down to our own education and what we're aware of, what we're not aware of. And how do you take the time, which is a luxury and a privilege as well. Let me be quite frankly to understand what's actually out there. There are brands that are really good with fair trade, with these other certifications that might hit on your value points and also might hit your price point as well. There are also B Corps that have really, really affordable price points too.

Andrea Chase:
So it has to really come down to how much are you willing to educate yourself within those channels and find what you need. Looking at other certifications, though, is a really good place to start. Fair trade is one that's really well respected. Organic is another that's really, really hard to achieve in skincare. Much harder than people really realize, quite frankly. So how can you find other ways to align with your values? Because how you spend your money is so important for the economic longevity of these organizations that align with your values. But it is quite tough because we've been hit with inflation over the last five years. That's incredible.

Andrea Chase:
The cost of living is absolutely astronomical in the United States and wage gaps are very, very real. I feel like my millennial generation did not get the best end of the stick in so many things. Whether it's a housing market or grocery costs or all of the other things that.

Jennifer Norman:
Sorry. I'm so sorry.

Andrea Chase:
It's okay. You just have to adjust your expectations and also prioritize where you want to place your money. And of course, basic commodity, rent, groceries, those are so important. But I assure you sustainability is not outside the realm of the purchase price for a normal alternative at this point, you can go find sustainable options often that are very close free range eggs, maybe not, but lots of other sectors within the grocery store aisles. You can find, for instance, a Dr. Bronner's Fair Trade soap for about $3, $4, which is the same price as all of the other soaps. So there are options out there.

Andrea Chase:
But unfortunately it comes down to whether you're willing to dig in and really take the time to understand what businesses align with your values and finding the ones that align with your budget too. But I promise they're out there. I promise, I promise, I promise. I want this to be very exciting and for folks to feel like they can dig into this and not be too overwhelmed because I know that having too many options is also really, really tough and can shut people down. So they're out there. Take your time. Definitely look at all the different certifications because you will find something within the price point that works for you and your family.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. And there's no guilting on my show whatsoever. And this is not about, oh, this is what you need to do and this is what you. We're not like the values police here. It's really. We understand that we're all human and we're all just doing the best that we can. Frankly, we're all just trying to get by and sometimes it's just, what can I do? Like, is there one thing that I can do? Whether it's self improvement or in a conscious decision for buying a gift for Christmas, which is coming up, or is there something that I can do in my home that might help to make it a bit more healthy and make it a little bit safer for me and my family? Are there just these simple, simple things that we can do as humans, as families, as consumers to make a decision a day that may be something that you can really feel good about. It's like, oh, I went for a run today, or I went for a walk today, or I woke up and I saw the sun and I did a thank you, my gratitude practice or something like that, or I specifically went to the store and I looked for that B Corp logo and I went and bought and I supported a company that I know is doing something good, something like that.

Jennifer Norman:
Those are just little options that we can think about every single day. Now, for those of you who are in businesses or who are founders of business, I know embedding sustainability, if you haven't done so already, can feel like a massive lift, and that's why Andrea is here. What can companies do to actually begin their journey? What do you think that every founder should understand before start a sustainability journey?

Andrea Chase:
Yeah, I think start wherever you're at. And again, no shaming. Like we're all here with the intention to do better, to grow, to learn. And that's a really important part of sustainability because it's a journey without a destination in so many ways and it can be so depressing when you think about these larger issues that we're facing that we're trying to tackle this. And so I really like to break it down into bite sized pieces for folks. And I always want to remind folks too, you cannot improve what you don't measure. So the first step is always looking at measuring.

Andrea Chase:
And this is where I've really become a big fan of the B Corporation movement over time, is because they break it down so clearly into these stakeholder pillars of the impact of your business, whether it's how you govern your business, the impact on the environment, the impact on your employees, your customers, your supply chain, everything in between. Where it starts to ask you the right questions and, and it almost starts to change your mindset a little bit because it leads the witness and the answers that are provided in the audit question answers of what is a best practice and what isn't. So I really recommend people looking at that type of certification, even if they don't want to be a B Corp because it's a free tool to really start to understand how to benchmark your business against stakeholder welfare, which is essentially sustainability in a nutshell. It takes Time, it takes resources, and it is, again, a dream without a destination, because it's... There's always the ability to do better. But looking at how you measure your baseline is gonna be the very first step. And then what makes sense for you and your business? What is the mission of your organization? What do you wanna lean into? And then really developing a plan that speaks to the authenticity of your mission and how that can come to life as well.

Jennifer Norman:
I think that for a lot of businesses, it's just, what can I do to really understand what my supply chain is looking like? Who am I buying from? What are their pract to know them a little bit more? Getting your employees involved in those decisions, I think that those are really fantastic things for any company to know about. That's really embracing the fact that they're owners and they want to be responsible for everything that they're putting out there, whether it be a product, whether it be a service, whatever it is. It's just making sure that we are going in with our eyes as open as possible and not making ignorant decisions so that we are really helping to promote the best interest of the consumer as well as the entire supply chain. And that also goes for... I'm a big proponent of marketing. And when we talk about health and mental health, particularly in the beauty industry, I have been appreciative of the change that has been happening thus far to show, not necessarily body positivity, but the fact that there are so many different kinds of kinds of people and there's so many different kinds of beauty, and there's really not just one aspirational type of beauty. So within the beauty industry and what we're doing with the B Corp movement and the Coalition is really being mindful as far as how we're marketing our products to so that we're not creating mental anxiety with the choices or trying to create pressure like, buy this now or no one will like you.

Jennifer Norman:
You know, just like some of those toxic messages that you sometimes see out there were really helping to create an atmosphere of eradication, that this isn't cool, this is not the way that beauty should be sold and that helpful to society at large. We do see such an issue with young people, particularly, who are just inundated with all of these marketing messages, and a lot of them are not, frankly, good for their mental health. And so what can we do to support that kind of sustainability for people to feel good about themselves and also make good decisions, teaching people while they're young how to do these things? I frankly think that the Gen Zers and they're going to be fine. They're going to be. Because a lot of them already know, they've already embraced the fact that the older generations have messed up the environment so badly that they have to be the ones to say, no, I'm stopping here and I'm being advocate for better decisions. And so I think that thank goodness there's many, many, many young people that are just so profoundly passionate about this and we want to be sure that we can spread all of this kind of good confidence and self esteem and all of this smarts within people to make these great choices overall. Overall.

Andrea Chase:
And it's amazing to see, Jennifer, too, because in consumer research you see the generational divide and now you even see boomers and no offense, boomers, I love you, I love my parents. But you even see them starting to feel the effects of their children, of their grandchildren who are now influencing up. And it's starting to tickle in first with recycling and the commitment to recycling. But these younger generations, millennials, Gen Z, they call them militant for value-driven purchasing, which is incredible news for companies that want to invest in this or responding to the regulatory pressures in sustainability in general because you're going to be rewarded by a whole new generation of folks who are not only bought into it, but are bought in so much more authentically because you've now resonated with their values. So I just want to call out like there are economic benefits, especially around customer loyalty that are derived and that come out of all of this good work that we're doing that makes me so excited to contribute to my job every day.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, I want to talk about Arbonne for a second because you've worked with this company for quite some time. There must have been an interesting journey from when you first started to now. I'm curious, can you tell us about some of the. First of all about the brand and about the products and then also about some of the really cool things that you've been able to do as head of sustainability there.

Andrea Chase:
Yes, of course. I love sharing about my journey with Arbonne, to say in the least. What brought me here was really an evolution of my B Corp journey. I had been doing consulting for businesses across so many sectors and I really started to realize that I wanted to influence a CPG company. I wanted to work on tangible items and not just service based businesses. And the other part of it is too, when you're a consultant, you put together all these amazing plans, you never know if they're actually going to be followed up on or embedded. And so you can't really see the fruition of all of these amazing endeavors that you set out on.

Andrea Chase:
And so when the opportunity with Arbonne came up, I was so excited because it is a mission driven business, it is a public benefit corporation that has legally become a mission driven business which was super important as you look at long term ROI and decisions that help drive that. And it was an opportunity for me to learn about a new sector of business which is beauty. And it's something that, that you do every day, especially as a woman in Los Angeles. Let's get real. LA definitely has a vibe. And so for me to get behind the decisions of this at a company that was very much scaling for change, that was very invested in sustainable management and integration and really looking to build an authentic culture around sustainability, it was a dream come true for me because I got to come in and build this sustainability department from scratch. For a business that's always been very much about clean beauty, about banning toxic ingredients, about taking care of people. And I got to focus on catching them up outside of the ingredient formula aspect, on the packaging aspect, on the cultural integration, on our environmental operational footprint, on our manufacturing practices, on our supply chain transparency, on everything in between.

Andrea Chase:
It's a running joke within the company that I'm considered an honorary member of every single department because there's always sustainability involved in every single question and every single decision that we're asking ourselves. And so it was a really exciting opportunity. And flash forward, you know, six plus years. We put in place all of these goals in 2020 around our environmental footprint, carbon, water, waste, energy and to see them all get hit early is really exciting. I got to live the dream of seeing everything come to fruition and so, so I've really focused my time here on working on our long term product strategy. Lining with non toxicity in ingredients and also circular economy for packaging, which is really one of my passions to say the least and a huge regulatory challenge in general. And I've also gotten to focus a lot on climate action which is really, really cool. We've decreased our carbon footprint by over 80% for scope one and two.

Andrea Chase:
We've transitioned to renewable energy. We're working with our supply chain to better understand our footprints there launching things like what we call life cycle analysis, understand the true carbon footprint of your products outside of just the end of life of them. And it's been amazing. We had the last couple of years has been a sprint focusing on joining what we call the science based target initiative. Which aligns our company with science based targets around carbon action that mean that we're limiting our degrees of warming to what will be inhabitable for humans in the long run and also for our ingredients to be grown in the long run too. So we're really excited about the actions across the board. And it personally just lights me up inside. One of the things that we keep talking about is employees and internal culture.

Andrea Chase:
It comes up a little bit here or there in our questions, but I have to say, one of the most enlightening parts of my job at Arbonne is seeing the response from our consultants and our customers and our employees around this. Again, values based purchasing, values based integration is so important to these people's identities. And it makes me so proud to see that the work we're doing around our mission of sustainable, healthy living for people and the planet is really resonating with them. It's the number one top thing that comes back in our employee engagement survey every year is mission and planet and planetary impact. It is something that has been so authentically loved by our employees that it's just been such an amazing journey. And we're just getting started. We have so much more work to do. As I mentioned, California laws are calling us with recyclability.

Andrea Chase:
We definitely have action to take. We are not where we need to be. We have other transparency things pushing us forward. But it has been such a fun ride so far and I'm so proud of everything that we've accomplished.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, my gosh, that sounds amazing. And what an amazing company. I often think, you know, I am a company that is just so small and to be B Corp Certified is an achievement for a small company. Absolutely. But it is a bigger achievement for a big company that has to like, move a mountain or just like turn the Titanic around. Sometimes there's so much, it can seem daunting to say, oh my gosh, these are the goals that we want to hit by 2030, which is only five years away, and to be able to do that and to make these big decisions that can really have such a huge impact because there are so many consumers buying those products, that it really does make a massive difference and it is so important.

Jennifer Norman:
So at the end of my podcast, I always ask three constant questions to every guest. So, Andrea, these are a reminder of what connects affects us all. It's our beauty, our humanity, and the truths that we live by. So one of my questions to you is, what makes Andrea Chase beautiful?

Andrea Chase:
Oh, gosh. This is such a interesting and triggering question.

Jennifer Norman:
Do tell more.

Andrea Chase:
Psychological stuff is coming out now. All jokes aside, what makes me beautiful? I think it's my authentic commitment to living who I am through everyday values. It means that I'm not always the most accepted voice in the room. I can be loud. Sometimes that loud can be seen as passionate or aggressive, depending on the circumstance. And how people view their own value is against mine. But I know that when I truly believe in something, I never give up, and I always push forward. And the path forward is not always linear.

Andrea Chase:
So you have to embrace, like, every little step forward on that path.

Jennifer Norman:
That is one of the things I love about you so much, is that you will always know what Andrea Chase thinks. She will always say what's on her mind, and it's so wonderful. She'll always say what everybody else is thinking, but it's too intimidating to say, and she'll be the one to stick her neck out and just say it. You're very much like I am in that perspective, because I was always the one that would say the unpopular thing in the middle of a meeting and just, like, blow up everything.

Andrea Chase:
Yep. But you know what? Sometimes it needs to be said because you have to.

Jennifer Norman:
Sometimes the room needs to be blown up.

Andrea Chase:
It does. Yes, it does. Yeah. You know what? I'm here for that. And that takes a certain level of courage, as you know. It does.

Jennifer Norman:
It absolutely does. Sometimes you gotta call out the authorities.

Andrea Chase:
We're building new rules. You have to do that.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. My second question to you is, what does it mean to be human?

Andrea Chase:
What it means to be human? Goodness, I would say. It means to authentically feel who you are. I know that's so silly, but in a time of AI, I think it's just so important to be aware of what drives you and what are your values and what resonates with you and to live your life based off of those things. So for me, it's like going hiking or doing art or all of those other things that just bring me immense joy outside of the workday, of course, that is joyful and frustrating at the same time as well. But really, it's our passions that make us human. It is.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, that's gorgeous. And my final question. What is one truth that you live by?

Andrea Chase:
Oh, goodness, I love this one. Humility looks good on everyone. The moment you think that you know everything is the moment you know nothing.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, my gosh. Isn't that the truth? For all of the years that I tried to tout myself as an expert, I was like, let's face it, I don't know anything.

Andrea Chase:
The more you know, the less you know.

Jennifer Norman:
And that's ok, the more you know, the more you realize that you don't know.

Andrea Chase:
I'm very comfortable in that space. I'm very happy in that space. And it is a passion of mine to learn something new every day. So I think it's always a good reminder that we don't know everything. And humility is a really good place to sit in because you drop your ego and you're able to actually absorb what's going on around you.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. There is this picture. It's like a James Webb telescope image of a section of the sky, the cosmos, which is is like a fraction. And in that little picture are 14,000 galaxies which are all infinitely vast. And so a lot of times the humility comes from recognizing how insignificant we are and how silly life really is, if you think about it, but then also how rare and extraordinary and important at the same time that we are. So it's being able to grasp the push and the pull of the macro and the micro and being at one with it and it just gives a different perspective on things no matter where you are.

Andrea Chase:
Totally. I like feeling small. It's a good feeling. I still have agency and I will still take action and speak up. But it's really nice to be humbled by the vastness of everything.

Jennifer Norman:
Exactly. And also how important it is to take care of the precious planet that we live on, which is the only one that we've got right now. So it does become extremely meaningful for us.

Andrea Chase:
Us, Absolutely.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, beautiful humans. Andrea Chase. Oh, thank you so much for being my guest on The Human Beauty Movement Podcast today. I'm going to put all of your links in the show notes and it was such a lovely opportunity to chat with you in this way today. Thank you for being my guest.

Andrea Chase:
Thank you so much for having me. Jennifer, you are the absolute best.

Jennifer Norman:
Thank you for listening to The Human Beauty Movement Podcast. Be sure to follow rate and review us wherever you stream podcasts. The Human Beauty Movement is a community based platform that cultivates the beauty of humankind. Check out our workshops, find us on social media and share our inspiration with all the beautiful humans in your life. Learn more at thehumanbeautymovement.com. Thank you so much for being a beautiful human.