Mental Health, Music Therapy & the Magic of Songwriting with True Istina

Jennifer Norman:
Across every language, there's one universal sound. The truth. And today's guest, True Istina lives and breathes the truth through music. Her name itself means truth, and her artistry embodies it, blending acoustic, pop and alternative sounds into songs that speak to the soul. True began singing at just 2 years old and went on to win gold and silver medals at the World Championships of Performing Arts. But her real journey began when she started writing. Not for fame, but for healing through heartfelt songs like For Fun, New Life, and The Word Is.

Jennifer Norman:
She reminds us that every feeling matters, every story has meaning. And that self expression is one of the purest paths to freedom. Her debut album, True Istina, has already reached thousands across the world, amassing nearly 200,000 streams. Not through industry hype, but through honest connection. In this episode, you'll discover how True turned her own pain into purpose through music. Why emotional honesty is the new rebellion in an age of filters. And how we can each find strength in softness and courage in truth. This is a conversation about feeling deeply, healing loudly, and creating confidence from the inside out.

Jennifer Norman:
So settle in, open your heart and listen closely. Because when True Estina sings, you can hear the sound of truth. And now it's showtime. Hi there, True. Welcome to the show.

True Istina:
Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

Jennifer Norman:
I am so delighted. And I am just really, really jelly. Because you're so young and you are doing such amazing things. How is this? Oh, I always feel like the grandma in the house when I am like, oh, my gosh - she started when she was 2. She had her first record when she was like 16.

True Istina:
How is this possible?

Jennifer Norman:
You have to tell us about your storied life so far and how you got into this amazing business, which is music.

True Istina:
Well, yes, like you said, I kind of started when I was two singing, but the songwriting came much, much later. I mean, my family was definitely one of those families that was always singing around the house. We'd go Christmas caroling, like we were just always that family. You'd always find us singing together. I learned how harmonize. And honestly, I still to this day don't know exactly how, but it was just something that was like, natural. It was like my mom would start singing and then I would just sing harmony to her songs. And it just kind of happened.

True Istina:
It was just something we did and it was something that led to. We actually competed at World Championships together as well. So not only did I compete by myself, I competed with her, which was amazing. It was so much fun.

Jennifer Norman:
Definitely helps to have a musical mom.

True Istina:
Yeah, it does. It really does. It's so much fun. It's always. That's just how we grew up. We were always around music. I always loved music, all different kinds. And I think that even shows my music is that it's inspired by so many different genres and artists and writers, and you can kind of see it through there.

Jennifer Norman:
Definitely. Now, you are Croatian, is that correct? And that's essentially where the name Istina comes from. It means "truth".

True Istina:
Yes, Istina means "truth" in Croatian. My baba and nono, who are my grandparents, are immigrants from Croatia, and they moved here when they were really young, probably my age when they first came to the US, which I'm still inspired by their story every day and how much they've accomplished. And they made a life here with nothing. And in Italy, they... My baba ate tomatoes to survive. Like, my nono, he was in a refugee camp. Like, it was just. It was one of those times.

True Istina:
And they escaped during communism, so it was a very difficult time. But I'm so inspired by their story every day. And then when I said I wanted to do music, my baba, she supported me 100%, and she actually paid to get my first song, like, produced. Look at that. Wow. So I wanted to dedicate this to them and to the journey and the hope they inspired in me and instilled in me to keep fighting. And that even when you start with nothing, you can build something from it. It just.

True Istina:
It really did inspire me. So that's where the name comes from.

Jennifer Norman:
How beautiful. So what is it about truth that really gravitates to you? Why did you decide to land on that name?

True Istina:
Ooh. Okay. So there was a lot of different, like, variations of my name, like, when I first thought about it. But the biggest thing, I didn't want it to be my actual name, because me in my real life, I'm not very social. I'm not the person who's, like, the life of the party. I'm more the person who likes to watch. I'm very visual. I'm good in smaller groups, not large groups. That's just how I am.

True Istina:
I'm more introverted than I'm extroverted. And I think that's something that you can see in my music of, like, how I truly feel or what I'm truly thinking. And I like to put in my music because that's my outlet. But with this, I'm like, I... When I started writing, I wrote songs during COVID so of course, nobody saw them. Like, we were online for school. Everything was crazy. And you were just, like, alone in your room, like, 24 7.

True Istina:
So I started writing at that point by myself. And so when that was happening, I'm like, there's nobody else that, like, sees this. It's just me. This is just for me, it was really. Because I had tried doing journaling, and I just felt like I was saying the same thing every single day. And that's how it felt. Like when I was doing counseling before, that is like, I felt like I was just telling my counselor every single week the exact same thing. And then like, okay, what are your breathing exercises? Okay, work on this.

True Istina:
I'm like, yeah, but it's like, I don't even know where these thoughts and feelings are coming from, so I can't get deeper. Like, I was struggling. And so when I finally found songwriting by accident, because it would just be really late at night, and I would just turn my phone on and just record whatever I was thinking. Sometimes I'd be crying. But, like, really late at night, I would just turn my phone on and record whatever I was thinking, whatever I was feeling. And it would just come out, and I'd, like, listen to it after. I'm like, whoa, okay, whoa. Because to me, I'm not very straightforward about my feelings.

True Istina:
I...I more like to keep everybody happy. I like to keep the peace. I'm more that person of, like, you come to me and I'll listen. Like, oh, I'm your listening ear when you need me. I'm just that type of person. So tell my problems. I feel like I'm a burden on them.

True Istina:
Like, I do. So I put it in my music. And that's something that's helped me so much because it helped me understand myself. It helped me figure out why I was feeling the way I was feeling. Helps me give myself hope again that things would get better. And I was actually about to. I don't know this TMI. Sometimes it's hard to talk about these things, but I was...

Jennifer Norman:
Do tell.

True Istina:
Okay.

Jennifer Norman:
Okay.

True Istina:
I was going to be put on antidepressants, but right before. My mom is a music therapist, so she knows all about it, and she's worked with a lot of kids with it, So I wasn't quite sure if that's like. I mean, at that point, they didn't really want to put me on it. Like, one of my parents was like, yes. One of them was like, no. And so I was in a place where it was that bad. Like, during COVID we did a online, and they're like, yeah, she probably needs meds I was really bad. Like, I was struggling with school.

True Istina:
I was struggling to get out of bed. I was dealing with an eating disorder at the time. It was really difficult. And I just lost my friend group because of COVID and a bunch of other stuff, but it was really hard. So. So I was at that point where I'm like, there was no hope. I literally was just getting up, being awake for eight hours, going back to bed. Like, that was literally it.

True Istina:
And it was so bad. And I'm like, I knew it didn't feel right. I knew it did, but I felt like my tears had dried up. I felt like there was nothing left. Like, there was nothing left to feel. It was just too much. But I couldn't feel exactly what it was. I couldn't pinpoint it.

True Istina:
So when I started writing the music, it was helping me release that and understand it. And then I gave myself the challenge of trying to write songs about hope, which was actually New Life, and R.M.D., which is, of course, my first album. They were the songs I wrote to give myself hope. Because I'm like, okay, now I understand what is going on with me. Like, I get it now, but I would, like, try to listen to music, like on the radio or on Spotify or whatever, and it was keeping me in the same dark place. I'm like, get me. But now what? Like, what do I do now? Like, is there something after? Is this it? Like, is there more? Like, okay, we understand each other, but am I supposed to just sit in this forever? Like, what do I do? So I wrote those songs, like, not only just to give me hope, but, like, just to think of a world that could be better or that something that can come from it. Like, now that I've reached that point where I understand why I'm here now, this is how you get back up.

True Istina:
Almost like writing the steps of, like, what to tell myself to get myself back up. And that's where, like I said, New Life and R.M.D. came from. Because those songs, specifically, New Life, is literally that straight up. It's talking about the fact that you build back up after you've hit rock bottom. And it's hard. I mean, of course it's hard, but you have to understand it, then you have to work through it. And then you start building slowly by figuring out what bricks you need to build backups. So that's why I did those songs.

True Istina:
And that was one thing. Like, even with my hopeful music, I always tell people, I'm like, I write songs to give people hope, to have another day, give themselves one more chance. Like, even if they're super anything. And I've had people reach out to me and tell me, like, you gave me one more day. Like, that's what your music did for me. I'm like, oh, thank you.

Jennifer Norman:
Wow. That is amazing.

True Istina:
It was so hard. And I know where they're at. Like, I felt that way. I know exactly what they're going through. I've been there. And it's so difficult when you feel alone. Even if everyone tells you they're in the same place, like, it doesn't feel like there's anyone else who can understand what you're going through. It just doesn't.

True Istina:
It feels like you're on an island alone. So when I wrote music and then finding out, people, like, really connected with it and actually help them, I mean, it meant so much to me, honestly. And it was. I'll be honest, it was really hard to release the music because, like I said, I was in such a dark and vulnerable place that when I wrote these songs and they finally helped me out of where I was at, and I finally started to feel like myself again, and I started to have hope again. And I'm like, okay, I can do this. My world is bigger than just these four walls. Like, there's more to this. Like, this is just a face.

True Istina:
You got this. Go through it. Go through the eye of the storm. Come out on the other side. When I finally got to that place, I listen, let a couple people listen to my songs, and they're like, do you want to release it? And I went, no. And I'm. What? Why? It's so good. I'm like, do you hear my lyrics? I don't even talk like that. No, no, no, no, no.

True Istina:
I cannot do that. That is so much. Like, I don't even give people in my daily life this information. No way. But I sat with that information for a little bit, and I just thought about it. I'm like, where I was when I first started writing those songs to where I was at that point. I'm like, I've come so far, and it's so much work and so much heart and stuff in my songs. Literally, it was my outlet.

True Istina:
But come so far to a place where I felt like there was more to live for again. Okay, I'll do it. I'm like, all right, I'll do it. And that's when I really. I went to a studio during COVID still. And in between, like, on my weekends, I would drive all the way to San Diego. I would go record. I would work on these songs.

True Istina:
And at first it was one song, then it was two, then it was three, then four, then five. Then we had an album.

Jennifer Norman:
Amazing. Wow.

True Istina:
Like, For Fun was the first song I'd recorded for the album. And from there, it just. It, like, snowballed. And then we had a full album. And I'm like, oh, my God, it was crazy. And I'm like, wow, this is me. Because I had always been a singer, but being a songwriter is such a different feeling. It's so much more vulnerable.

True Istina:
You're really putting yourself out there, and it's scary. It's like that fear of being judged, that's a real thing.

Jennifer Norman:
Like, it's so scary.

True Istina:
Put yourself out there for everyone to have opinions about and think about your thoughts and, like, see what's inside your head. It's like, no, I want to put my... But that's what my music did. And so when I released the songs, I knew that because I'd come from such a different place when I started writing them versus where I was. I'm like, if I want to be confident and share these messages and everything like that, I want to do it in a way where it doesn't feel like I'm timid or shy, anything like that. So I. I wanted a name that represented that, which True Istina, which means "true truth", I think perfectly represents that. And then also it gives me a space to be.

True Istina:
Like, I can still be my introverted self, but I can be extroverted. I can be talkative, I can be inspiring when I want to be through True Istina a little bit. It helped me separate them a little bit because I wanted to build towards a middle ground, which I'm doing now, of being both those people.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, my gosh. There's so much to unpack, girlfriend.

True Istina:
Wow.

Jennifer Norman:
Thank you so much for sharing all of that. I think also because, I mean, your mom being a music therapist and also I know that she's battled her own physical ailments, having cancer and all of that. God bless her. Beyond Covid and all of the vulnerabilities and all the loneliness that young people are feeling, I feel like it is just such a tragedy to me. It's such a tragedy that beautiful people such as yourself went through this time, which in your short lives is a huge chunk of time at a very important time of life, when you are supposed to be building social connections and all. And all of that gets disrupted. I mean, your whole world gets turned upside down, and it's just like this feeling of isolation and loneliness that we're still talking about to this day. I mean, and we probably will for a long time because it has had such a lasting impact.

Jennifer Norman:
And yes, it's so amazing that your mom probably helped to guide you in using music as a way, as an outlet in order to emote, to express, to release, to cathartize, to do all of those things.

Jennifer Norman:
And certain modalities work for certain people. Journaling might work for some. Meditating might work for some. Punching a punching bag might work for others. Baking a cake might work for others. But you discovered this extraordinary healing in writing songs, which I think is so beautiful because a lot of people can't figure that out.

Jennifer Norman:
And you were able to get to that place where you were able to figure it out, and it was helpful. And then you can look back and say, look how far I've come. Which is proof that it worked. Because to your point, a lot of people, you get into, like, these grieving circles or these healing circles, and they're good for that moment because you want to sit in that space and just feel the sadness or feel the loneliness. And that's an important part of it. But it is also important to take baby steps to move on and to rise out of it eventually. And that's exactly what you were able to do. I mean, no shame in taking antidepressants.

Jennifer Norman:
I raise my hand, and everybody knows, on my podcast knows I take antidepressants. It's like, there's no shame in it at all. And it's... If it's something that you need to do, it's something you need to do. I know that it is a very big decision, especially when you are young, about whether it's right for your body or not. And so there are certainly a lot of discussions about the personal choice and bringing your parents in to make sure that you. You all feel that it is the right decision or not. And also working on other things that can help to release all of these emotions in a beautiful, powerful way.

Jennifer Norman:
So how cool is it to get that kind of response from people, that you gave them hope that if you touch just one life in your life, I mean, that's amazing. But being able to touch more than that and you know you're on this path of being able to do that is just so incredible. So, yay you. Yay you, True. That's really, really cool. And it is fun to be able to create an alter ego. I think it's like, yes, this is my stage persona.

Jennifer Norman:
This is me, and I can get to be flashy, but then I can go back home and just like to be myself. And by the way, your real name is beautiful too. I mean, "Grace" is a beautiful name to begin with. So True Truth and Grace go beautifully together. So I think you got it all covered. You've got it all covered now.

Jennifer Norman:
I mean, I know that you've said that your goal really has never been the fame or money, but real connection. How do you think that you'll be able to keep that intention alive if you choose to go forward? In this industry that usually values imagery off over authenticity?

True Istina:
That's one thing is that I, for sure, I've seen it play out in front of me before. And it's hard sometimes. Like, there are times where I'm like, if I just followed the trends, it'd be so much easier if I just acted like this, if I just did my makeup more intensely, if I added more cuss words like, things like that, Things that, like, aren't true to me, I'm like, things would just be easier. And it's the truth. I mean, this industry, you follow the artists that are really big right now, and you see, like, what they're doing, and it's working. So, like, there's ways of, like, it's hard looking at that, but then also being like, I know it's gonna take more time, but this is real. Like, this is more honest. This is more me than any of that stuff.

True Istina:
And it is hard because there's a lot of times, like, even when I go to, like, industry parties or anything, it's like, everyone's really flashy. They're very, like, very confident in their bodies, things like that. And me personally, I'm like, I like making music and making content for people of all ages. Like, I want my music to be able to be played from kids all the way to elders that they want. Like, I want that because that's important to me. Like, I want people to find one song or two songs or a whole album or whatever that they love and can listen to without parent being afraid of, like, what I'm saying to a kid and putting a subliminal message in them. Like, I don't want to worry parents or anything like that. And it's really important to me that people hear my music.

True Istina:
It doesn't matter what age, doesn't matter what race, doesn't matter gender, anything. Just people hear my music and take the messages as they need it. So, yeah, it is difficult. And even now, I'm like, I still have to remind myself, like, no, don't fall into that. Because, you know, it's easy to. It's really easy to. But I'm like, nope, don't do it. Like, don't do it.

True Istina:
You're going to regret it because you're going to be miserable in 20 years, and you're going to have an audience that doesn't know you. You're going to have people in your community that aren't really there for the right reasons. And I want to build community that's so important to me of people who can understand each other or connect with each other or just help each other, raise each other up. So that's really important. Yes, it's difficult, but it's so important to stay myself even in the face of. You're right. This industry, which is very pressurized, I'll say that there's a lot of pressure, but I.. And that's what I focus on, is why I started.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, that's amazing. And I think the industry, it is a capitalist industry, so let's just put it out there that they're after the eyeballs. They're after the... What's going to be provocative. There's a lot of sensationalizing, and I think that there's part of it where it can cause its own mental health issues amongst artists themselves, because there's a lot of rejection. There's a lot of, okay, what's next? And, you know, the pressure of putting out hit after hit after hit, or certain labels wanting you to change your image, change your look to your point, and be something that you don't feel very comfortable with, be something that you're not. I've been listening to a lot of folks in the industry who have really been successful at keeping that balance. Either they've decided to move away to, like, Montana or something so that they could have that peace of mind and still dabble in the industry, or they recognize it for the game, that it is theater, that they can take it with a bit of sense of humor and be like, okay, I need to put on this show this way.

Jennifer Norman:
But it doesn't really define who I am. I'm really this person inside. And so I'll play along to a certain degree and not let it get to me. Not let it, like, stress me out and call it, like, a personal affront if people don't like this. Because I know that to your point about songwriting and singing, I mean, you're putting yourself out there and it's just so easy for people to torpedo you. I Mean, it's... They say that people build other people up and just to tear them down. And that seems to be a lot of what you see today, unfortunately.

Jennifer Norman:
And wouldn't it be great if we can create more circles where people are just cheering each other on, where we can give just like, I would say, constructive criticism where need be to be like, yeah, you got this. This is where we make it better not to completely tear the person down and be like, you're 16 years old and you may as well give up, you know, like, because you see that on like a lot of these reality shows. It's like you have no business to be singing. And it's just horrible. It's absolutely horrible to do that to a young person. And watching it is just. To me, it's really very shameful. If you always have this mode of curiosity of I can always improve and I can always get better and become even truer to myself than before.

Jennifer Norman:
Then you're evolving and you're doing it in a way that you feel so good about, rather than being lost and being like, I veered off in this direction because somebody else told me so and I don't like it. And I'm becoming even more uncomfortable and more separated from the integrity of myself. I'm finding that no matter what business you go in, I think that probably is a good case in point, is just to be like, just know who you are and always. And if you don't know who you are, the world will tell you who you are. So it's like always take that that time, get off social media for a little bit to spend time with yourself, to really get to know yourself. And then that way you'll have a stronger foundation to go forward in life and be as unique as you possibly can.

True Istina:
Yes, A hundred percent. And even this summer, like, I got to go back to Croatia and spend time with my baba and nono and it was their 90th anniversary. Their 90th anniversary this summer.

Jennifer Norman:
What? 90th anniversary? What did they meet when they were like one year?

True Istina:
They were actually neighbors on the island. And then they knew each other growing up, all the way up until I think my nono was 19 when he left for Italy and then my baba followed shortly after. I think they're two years apart. And so, yeah, then they got married in Italy and then came to the US So very long time.

Jennifer Norman:
Wow. Wow. Croatia's on my bucket list. Boy, I... It's just such, such beautiful territory over there.

True Istina:
Yes, it was a great place to disconnect like that was one thing. I loved being in nature, loved being around my family. I was literally like coloring every day, like listening to music, like I was just. That was such a nice, like, break from the crazy world we live in. Especially because I'm an artist. Like the world I live in is so fast paced that it was so nice to take a break from it, spend time with family, be there with them, celebrate their 90th anniversary. Which is crazy, but it was so beautiful. And you're right, you do need to remember, like nature and being human.

True Istina:
Like, I think that's the most important thing is that this career, I love what I do and I'm so grateful that I get to help people with my music. But I also have to remember it's a job and it cannot be my entire life or it would consume me. And that's like, I hope people realize is like they can love what they do to the absolute bone. But you also remember human. Remember that you need breaks. Remember that you have to be kind to yourself, that you need a second sometimes. Maybe you need a walk in nature or just a day off to binge watch whatever show you're watching. Like things like that.

Jennifer Norman:
Exactly.

True Istina:
Be human. Because in this industry we're seen as more than that. And it's true, like you said, like, my music videos are very expressive and they're beautiful and they're incredible and the stories and everything. But they're also something that like, that is a performance I'm putting on for the songs because I'm trying to show people where the songs come from. But in that moment, like, I might be like, if it's a sad song, I might be smiling with my crew on the side. Just remembering the beauty and just to be present is so important. And I'm grateful I got to go to Croatia again to be able to be in nature and take a break from social media and everything. But I absolutely loved it.

True Istina:
And you're right, you do need a break sometimes and you just gotta be kind to yourself.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, how great. Now I think that you have such an affinity for Croatia and probably other foreign lands. How do you think, like different languages and different customs or even different audiences shape the way that you think about like universally connecting with song?

True Istina:
Well, I love being inspired by other like, artists and other countries and I love music from all around the world. That's one thing is like, I, especially when I was younger, like, I loved music all around the US like, all different genres and styles. Like my favorite artists were like Pentatonix and Celtic Woman and Carrie Underwood, like, those were the ones you kept. You would see me listening constantly, honestly. But I also liked Vivaldi and I loved classical music because that's what I was raised with. And then when I went like, I love accordion, I love listening to music there, which is so good. Lovi Plovi Mala Barka is one of my favorites. It's a Croatian song.

True Istina:
And I just. I love music from around the world. Italian, I mean, anything from arias to even like Hindi music to Israeli to all around the world. Latina. Like any type of music. I love music. I love instruments, I love the feeling. And that's the most important thing to me.

True Istina:
And I think you see that through my music. I'm inspired by all of it.

Jennifer Norman:
What's pretty much like your go to playlist?

True Istina:
Oh, I think my light playlist, which has around 2, 000 songs.

Jennifer Norman:
What? They're not not just one artist.

True Istina:
I do have like almost every single album of Carrie Underwood's. I think I'm missing one. I gotta get that last one. But I love her music. I love Adele, I love Whitney, Destiny's Child, I love Celine, I love literally any type of music like that.

Jennifer Norman:
How are you on Taylor?

True Istina:
I do like Taylor. I haven't heard the new album yet, but I'll get around to listening to it and see how it is. I don't know.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm like meeting it with trepidation. I've heard a couple of just like bits of the songs. I haven't dove in headfirst into it just yet either. But I give her so many props for just the amazing, amazing career that she's had. I mean, it's just absolutely mind boggling what she's been able to do. And I, I have so much respect for her. I have so much admiration for her.

Jennifer Norman:
And for so many who have even gotten to like an inkling of the success that she has, it. It takes such bravery and it is so difficult. And she's been able to navigate these highs and lows just like personally and emotionally. But she still continues on she thing. And that persistence and the relatability that she has in her music is just really, really phenomenal. And it's great to be alive during these times where you get to witness these sorts of things occurring where there's such an amazing amount of music, there's such an amazing amount of like different types of genres and the blending and the fusing and all of that. And the opportunity to be able to just like listen to anything that we want to at any given time. It's so cool.

True Istina:
Yes, absolutely. And I respect her so much as an artist. I mean, the Eras tour. Iconic.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah.

True Istina:
I mean, literally, the fact that she has eras is crazy.

Jennifer Norman:
I know. I know. Many, many eras.

True Istina:
So much respect for her as an artist and leading the century.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. If you could do a collaboration with anyone, who would it be? And you can't say Carrie Underwood because you heard me mention... Because I knew that that was gonna come up. So anybody besides Carrie.

True Istina:
Ooh. Okay. Another one. I really, really love Bruno Mars. Incredible songwriter.

Jennifer Norman:
And he's another young one too. For me, I mean, it's like, wow, Bruno's amazing.

True Istina:
I absolutely love his music. And I think he was one of those ones that always, like, you knew his songs, but you didn't know was him. He's made such a name for himself. Incredible. Just watching his career, how it built, like, he didn't start, like, at the top, although his songs were always amazing, but built himself up to such a name now that everybody knows Bruno Mars around the country and the globe, and it's incredible to just watch him and his songwriting. Oh, my gosh. It's so good. It's so good.

True Istina:
Would be amazing.

Jennifer Norman:
His performance chops, too. I saw him live twice, once at the Hollywood bowl and then another time at what was then the Staples Center, which was. Is now, I guess, Crypto, and, just absolutely incredible. The voice, the showmanship, it's all... he's got the whole package. It really is so fun to watch him.

True Istina:
Haven't gotten the option to yet, but I love someday soon.

Jennifer Norman:
Someday soon. So what do you think would be the message that you hope that listeners would take away when they hear your music for the first time?

True Istina:
Oh, okay. It depends on what song you're listening to, be honest. It really does.

Jennifer Norman:
Which would be the song that you would hope that they would hear first, and then what would be? What would you want them to think about or feel?

True Istina:
Oh. That's hard. That is so hard. I know. Style has changed so much, and each song is so different from the last. So who? Okay, I'll go with my first one. For Fun. We'll start there.

True Istina:
Because that was the first single I did, and that was the first one I got in the studio with, and that was kind of what started this whole thing. So I think For Fun, definitely. And it's really that song about bringing out your own confidence and, like, not letting people define you. Even though, like, one of those songs where it's, like, a really happy beat. But the lyrics are, like, deep. They're real deep. Like, they're talking about, like, people trying to silence you and keep you down and, like, how you're not gonna let them, and how you see through their games, which is why it's called For Fun, because you're just, like, playing along, but you see what they're doing, and you're like, no, it's okay. You can continue to do that.

True Istina:
But doesn't mean I'm gonna engage with it. Like, go do that. But I'm good. You know, it's that kind of. I'm good on my own. And if people want to join me, they can. But I don't need you. And I think that's such an important message because people always like, oh, I need someone else to feel happy.

True Istina:
I need this to feel fulfilled. No, I need me. And if you want to join, I want you. You to be here with me. I want this to come to me. I want this kind of thing to be around me, this environment. But I don't need it. I don't need it to live.

True Istina:
I don't need it to be happy. I don't need to feel fulfilled. And that's one thing I think a lot of people need. That message of being like, I don't need. Or rely or don't need codependency on anybody else. I got me. That's enough.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, it's one of those things that I think people know that's how they should feel. Getting to that, that point is a little bit trickier because it's. It is work. It's like, there were many, many years. I know for me and for probably so many others, where it's like, you just don't like yourself. It's like you're always criticizing yourself. You've got the little bully sitting there on your shoulder telling you that you're too this or to that, and you just feel insecure, and you feel like you need that validation. And working yourself out of that is important.

Jennifer Norman:
And so listening. And it's so funny how these, like, words are so subliminal in songs. And so if you listen to these lyrics over and over again, even if you're not, like, fully paying attention, it gets through. And so the more that you can surround yourself with these positive messages or empowerment and mantras and these different kinds of habits that you can do, these little rituals that give you a little bit of an attaboy. I think Mel Robbins is one of these individuals who says, go into the mirror. Give yourself a high five in the morning. Like it sounds ridiculous, but you actually think that you're being high fived by somebody else and it actually psychologically works. Give yourself a high five and sooner or later you're going to feel better about yourself and you're going to say, you know what? I love you.

Jennifer Norman:
I love everything that we have. Yes. If there's something that happens, I'm okay by myself. I can survive. I don't necessarily have this really negative toxic codependency on you that makes me feel like I'm just going to be crumbling into a pile of mush. If you were to leave or if, if something happened between us, that, that sort of thing. Yeah. So that's a good one to start with.

Jennifer Norman:
It's a good, like atta girl, atta boy song for fun.

True Istina:
You're absolutely right, though. It's... Sometimes it's really hard to figure out that it's not a healthy environment because you get so...

Jennifer Norman:
You don't know because, yeah, you feel like, oh, well, this is how. It's how it is. This is normal, this is life. And yeah, until you know...

True Istina:
Otherwise your new normal becomes just something that's like, this is just how it is. And like, that's my song. Like The Word Is. It's really about that moment where you're like, okay, maybe this relationship has changed. Maybe things have shifted because I'm losing myself. And like, that is really hard to notice. It is. It's so difficult to know that there's a shift because it's usually gradual.

True Istina:
Especially in relationships, everything is so gradual that you don't really see. It's not like this big, big boom or anything. We're like, okay, things are bad, I'm out. Like, yeah, it slowly is just like people digging at your self confidence or at your personality or like, oh, this just annoys me that you do this. Or you asking me questions annoys me or you, you being around annoys me. Just little things and it starts to just kind of take away and it's really hard. And that's why the word is is so important because that song is really about like, that is the word toxic or tragic or being at impact. And it's so important.

True Istina:
Like when you get to that point, it's like you have to like either move on or separate yourself because it's not a healthy environment anymore and it's difficult to notice it. But once you do, that's step one to getting out and freeing yourself from a really negative environment.

Jennifer Norman:
Yes, absolutely. Have you ever had like a friend who's, like, asking for advice. It's like, oh, I know I should dump this person, or I know that I should do this and that. And you're telling the person because you see point blankly what's happening. This is a toxic, negative situation that you're in. Take just, like, pack your things and go. You know, that sort of thing. Or this is what you need to do to create separation.

Jennifer Norman:
And the person just doesn't do it. It's like...

True Istina:
Really you just want to, like...

Jennifer Norman:
But because it's so hard, they feel like soon as they... They know that they should, but they just can't pull the trigger because it's just like, there's something. Something comfortable there. There's something that is serving them more for whatever reason, by being in and walking away and feeling like, okay, I'm gonna be alone.

True Istina:
Yes. And it's so hard to watch them just, like, slowly just lose their light. It's...

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah.

True Istina:
And it's... You know, they... But they're just like... You see them drained and, like, they're not themselves. They don't want to, like, do things that they used to love anymore because, you know, their partner or their friends, whatever their environment tells them, oh, no, no, that's not cool anymore. That's not good. I want to do. And I...

True Istina:
You just follow along and it's just lose their selves. And it's so hard to just watch it. And even, like, you know, especially because when you feel it, you. You feel the same way. You're like, you don't notice it, and then they notice it for you, and it's just the same thing over again. But it's hard to watch because then you're like, oh, okay, yeah, I did deal with that. That. I did go through that.

True Istina:
That makes more sense why they wanted me out of that. Okay. Yeah. All right. You're right.

Jennifer Norman:
Let's talk about singing for a moment. Because, I mean, you've been singing for longer than most people have been, like, walking at your age. Right. I think. And so what to you... And it's probably very natural to you, but what do you think separates a good singer from a great singer?

True Istina:
Oh, to me, you can have. Have an amazing voice. I think everyone can sing. I'll just throw...

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, I. I do not know if I could. I would love to know how to sing. I sang early in life when I was in the choir at my church, but since then, no one wants to hear me sing.

True Istina:
It takes time, practice. But I think it also comes down to passion. It has to be something you truly love. Just like any other sport. Like when you put a million hours into it, it's the same. It's a race, it's a challenge. There's a like steps to it. There are different competitions.

True Istina:
Just the same as like a tournament is like you have to put yourself into it. So I think anybody can sing, but it's about that passion, that drive, that wanting to be better, that pushing yourself. And it's hard because when you get to that point, you're like, okay, you're comparing yourself to someone else and that's what you're basing it off of. But you can't... You can't base it off of anyone else because your voice is different, your style is different, different place. Maybe you're more passionate. I don't know. It's just one of those things that a good singer versus a great singer is someone who's passionate, who's dedicated, who works hard, who loves what they do and just wants to share whatever their voice or the message or anything that they love.

True Istina:
Which is honestly a gift. It really is. And that's the difference is because anyone can be a good singer. Like, I think that we can each all hold a tune to some degree. Or you can work on one note and just get it after. After you try over and over and over again, you can get that one note. Like, even someone, I think who's tone death could probably learn how to sing if you just work on it consistently because it's a muscle just like anything else. It's just like learning math for the first time.

True Istina:
Like, get it. Eventually some people get it faster, some people get it slower. But that's the thing that I think everyone can sing, but being a great singer is the person who is so dedicated, who works so hard on it, who loves what they do, who has a reason and a why to why they're singing or why they're writing music or singing for the world. That's why is that is so important. It's so important.

Jennifer Norman:
Great answer. I love that answer.

Jennifer Norman:
Okay, so now here is the time when I ask three questions. They're the same questions that I've been asking every guest. And they're a reminder of what connects us all. Our beauty, our humanity, and the truths we live by. So True, my friend. First question to you is, what makes you beautiful?

True Istina:
Oh, wow. Okay, wow.

Jennifer Norman:
Because I know you're beautiful, but what do you think makes you look. What makes you beautiful?

True Istina:
Whoa. Honestly, I go back and forth. I'll be honest with that. Because, like, there's times where I'm like, okay, this specific thing makes me beautiful. And then there are those times I'm like, I don't know what it is, or maybe that's too surface level, that. That one thing I feel makes me beautiful, you know, that type of thing. And for me, there's, like, times where I'll just like, see myself either on stage or anything like that. And I'm just like, that's raw and that's real.

True Istina:
And to me, that's beautiful because I stop thinking, like, I stop overthinking. I stop worrying about everything else. I just. I see that I love what I do. And even though I'm so nervous right, like, literally up until before I perform, just being on stage, like, you just see how much I love it. And, like, that is just my happy place, or me and studio for hours, like, that type of thing. I know they say don't make your career your whole life, but it's something that just. It makes me so free.

True Istina:
It lets me just express myself in so many ways that I usually try to keep so under lock and key that I feel beautiful when I'm performing or writing songs or releasing them or in a music video or anything like that. Because I just. I feel like I'm sharing exactly how I feel to the world, and I'm giving them my honest truth, truth, raw and real.

Jennifer Norman:
And that's a beautiful answer, too. Okay, my second question. What does it mean to be human?

True Istina:
Oh, what does it mean to be human? Wow, that's a very loaded question. I think to be human is to make mistakes. And I think that's something we don't accept enough. And I think there's a difference between trying to hurt other people and just making mistakes or messing up or having an issue or struggling with something. And I don't think that we're kind enough to each other. Sometimes when we are struggling because habits are hard to break, or being an environment, it teaches you certain things. We don't all know what love is in the same idea. We don't because we were raised by different families.

True Istina:
We were raised by different morals and different values. So when we see other people, we put them to our standards and not as much to their own. I don't think we give people enough understanding that they come from a different, different place or a different environment. And that's something I think being human is. We have to be kinder to each other. We have to give that understanding. Now, I'm not saying we don't have to be accountable we do. We have to be accountable for our actions.

True Istina:
If we make mistakes, we need to apologize or make it right because that's so important. But I definitely think that we do have to be kinder to each other because they do happen. And some people struggle more with more of a emotional side, and some people struggle more with a logical side. That should just. What happens. Our brains are all so different. We're all made so different. Our genetics are all so different that we can't be compared to each other.

True Istina:
So it's important that we give each other that grace and just that little bit of understanding to each other.

Jennifer Norman:
Great answer. And this one is going to be perfect for you because a lot of people struggle over this next question. But for you, I have a feeling it won't be as difficult. What's one truth you live by?

True Istina:
Whoa. One truth I live by.

Jennifer Norman:
Ms. Istina.

True Istina:
Let's see. I say this with my music. I'm learning to create confidence. And that's something I want to instill in other people. And I want them to feel that they're building themselves up when they listen to music or they stand up for themselves or just stand a little bit taller one day or just. Just come in a room and know who they are. And that's something I think that's really important with my music and even within myself is that I'm trying to create that confidence into me. And like I said, my daily life is more introverted and more to myself.

True Istina:
I don't speak out as much, but I'm building because of this other side of myself that I'm sharing with everybody. It's kind of forcing me out of my shell and kind of now I'm combining the both to figure out where this creating the confidence is meeting in the middle, honestly. And so my truth is that I am not perfect, but I am doing my best and I am building on myself and I'm going to keep going and I'm doing what I love. And I'm so grateful that I get to. And I hope everybody else, either through my music or my messages or anything in this community that I'm building, helps them feel a little bit more understood or give a little bit more hope or just feel a little bit stronger in themselves and create their own confidence.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, my gosh, what glorious answers you gave.

Jennifer Norman:
True Istina. Ladies and gentlemen, beautiful humans that are listening, please look up True. You can find her at her website, truistina.com on Instagram, truistina official. She also has a TikTok and a YouTube channel. Listen to her music and you will be seeing so much more of her going forward. True, it was such a delight to have you today. Thank you so much for being my guest on the podcast.

True Istina:
Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. This was perfect.

Jennifer Norman:
Take care.

Jennifer Norman:
Thank you for listening to The Human Beauty Movement Podcast. Be sure to follow, rate and review us wherever you stream podcasts. The Human Beauty Movement is a community based platform that cultivates the beauty of humankind. Check out our workshops, find us on social media and share our inspiration with all the beautiful humans in your life. Learn more at TheHumanBeautyMovement.com. Thank you so much for being a beautiful human.