Desert Roots, Cosmic Truths & Music as Medicine with CJ Shaman

Jennifer Norman:
What does it take to transcend genres, defy the music industry's expectations, and still stay true to yourself? Today, we're speaking with someone who's doing just that, CJ Shaman, a breakout artist who is redefining what it means to be a rock phenomenon today. CJ's musical style was forged in Old West culture, outlaw legends and classic rock's rebellious spirit. His songs blend sexy swagger with sonic intensity. His latest work, El Diablo de Ocho, The Devil of Eight, is a blazing homage to classic rock badassery. In this episode, we'll give you a behind the scenes glimpse into CJ Shaman and his work. You'll hear how he bridged the gap between the mythic American West and gritty rock stages, and how that informs his songwriting. You'll catch the bold creative choices behind El Diablo de Ocho, how he chose his studio stories, how he wrestled with darker themes, and how he's turned vulnerability into sonic strength.

Jennifer Norman:
And maybe most importantly, I hope you'll gain a renewed sense of courage for your own art or purpose, to lean into your edges, to let your individuality shine, and to stand proudly in what makes you different. So buckle up. This is your invitation to live louder and truer. Let's bring CJ in.

Jennifer Norman:
Hi there, CJ. How are you today?

CJ Shaman:
I'm pretty awesome. How are you?

Jennifer Norman:
So great to have you. You're in Vegas?

CJ Shaman:
Yes, ma'am.

Jennifer Norman:
All right, city of lights.

CJ Shaman:
How about you? Where are you at?

Jennifer Norman:
We're in Los Angeles down here.

CJ Shaman:
Los Angeles. The real Babylon.

Jennifer Norman:
Yes. Yeah, Vegas has changed quite a bit too over the past few years.

CJ Shaman:
Oh, yeah, we've had a lot of LA folks come this way and people from all over the world come this way in the past couple years. That's for sure. Had a little bit of a sprout of growth, I would say.

Jennifer Norman:
I know a lot of people who relocated to Henderson and are loving it.

CJ Shaman:
Yeah, I mean, Vegas, a lot of people who aren't familiar with Vegas and like the locals, everyone always assumes everyone who lives in Vegas lives like right on the Strip, underneath a casino or something like that. But as far as, like the Vegas local scene, it's pretty chill. Like there's like a lot of families out here. Basically just like suburban lifestyle, like, pretty chill. It's pretty all American when it comes down to it, honestly.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. And I remember a long time ago when I used to be... I was in corporate working in the beauty industry. We would love going to Vegas to do focus groups, because everybody from everywhere came there and almost everybody was a transplant. So you really got a good cross section of what America was like when you went to Vegas and talked to people.

CJ Shaman:
Yeah, definitely. It's like a melting pot of all, like, the sections of America, the East Coast, the Midwest and the West Coast. There's like all the Americana, like, is met up in Las Vegas to like, make up our culture. So you got a lot of people from the Midwest, a lot of people from Hawaii, like, a lot of, like, Filipinos here, people from Guam. So it's actually like quite a cultural melting pot.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, yeah. And then when you go to the Strip, you've got just about everything. The best food, the best entertainment, great music, such as what you're saying.

CJ Shaman:
We definitely have killer, killer restaurants here, that's for sure. You're not going to go hungry.

Jennifer Norman:
No, definitely not. Not going to go hungry or thirsty.

Jennifer Norman:
So I just had the opportunity to listen to your latest album, El Diablo de Ocho, and it is really... It is just so cool. I have to say. It sound like a legend waiting to be told. I want you to be able to tell everybody about what the story is behind the name, your music, all of your influences. Tell us about that.

CJ Shaman:
All right, well, this latest release of mine that you just mentioned, El Diabo de Ocho, The Devil of Eight, is definitely a culmination, kind of everything I've ever done as an artist and as a musician. Like, almost like I'm kind of wrapping something up and putting a bow on, like an era of my journey and kind of ready to move on and have this sort of rebirth. So the album definitely, as you mentioned, tackles some darker themes and is very dark, honestly, because it's sort of a tribute to two of my best friends that actually passed away, like, within a year of each other. And it sort of put me on a theme of a lot of reflection and a lot of sorrow, a lot of sadness, bringing up your own mortality and things like that. And these are people that died young when unexpectedly. So it's very tragic. So I wanted to...

CJ Shaman:
And they were both like lifelong pretty much friends of mine, and they themselves were sort of into like, the. The darker things, like darker music, darker art, darker movies, sort of had a darkness and an edge to them in that way. So I wanted to honor them and make an album that they themselves would enjoy, because that's not necessarily what I always do. I mean, I think we all have a dark side, but when I make music, I definitely am not trying to be like, goth or emo or dark or scary or anything like that. So with this album, I felt like I was being called to just dive in right straight, head on into the darkness, into those elements and themes, and make an album for those guys, basically, and also meld my own inner turmoil that I was going through, not just because of the loss of them, but just in life and in being a person. Like every human being, we step into this world and we're on this path. We're not quite sure why we're here, we're not quite sure where we're going.

CJ Shaman:
And so it invited me to really look within and kind of question, like, what is it that I'm really doing here and what is my purpose? And as an artist and a musician, we always think we're kind of special and that we have this purpose to bring music to people and that we're going to be big and famous and people are going to hear our songs and connect with them and relate to them and give us this feeling of like. I sort of feel like a person who doesn't feel. I feel very alone in the world. I feel like I'm. I'm a one of a kind and I don't fit into any group or circle. So with my music, I'm hoping to get that feeling of feeling around friends and that you're accepted and that you're a part of something by having people connect with my music. So that's how I want to connect with people. I want them to connect with my music more so than I want to, like, physically be in the room and connect with them, if that makes sense.

CJ Shaman:
So with this album, I wanted to sort of like, make an album that was going just sort of be this kind of like, final goodbye to an era of my life, which ended up being sort of like, honestly, like a dark part of my life that I'm kind of saying goodbye to with these songs. And so that's kind of what I was hoping to accomplish with the album. There's eight songs on the album, so The Devil of Eight, El Diablo de Ocho, just simply translates into English as The Devil of Eight. And I felt like I've been wrestling with the devil for a really long time, and I finally just wanted to have one last battle with him and end it and walk away and with these eight songs and move on to something else. So I think, anyways, as an artist, that's kind of what I was going for with that album.

Jennifer Norman:
Hit subscribe right now for more soulful stories and inspiring conversations with me and The Human Beauty Movement Podcast.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, gosh. Well, first of all, I'm sorry for your loss. And what an homage to them to be able to put all of that into this music and come up with this album, which is really helping to respect your time with your friends and then also hopefully release some of that sadness and woe. And the wonderful thing about about music is it is immortal. I mean, your soul, their spirit lives on through this music. I actually heard somebody say once that music is decorating time, which I thought was such a beautiful thing to say. And thinking about how you're continuing to help keep them alive and decorating your time that you still have and celebrating and sharing that with everybody, I think is really very special.

Jennifer Norman:
And I know for others who have gone through their own, who are chasing their own demons and have their own darkness, it's absolutely relatable. Everybody can relate to sorrow, to loss, and to feeling like you've been overtaken by a shadow. And certainly you've got shaman in your name. There must be more to your spiritual side than the darkness. And so I want to also talk about that and maybe some of the things in your upbringing as well. But it's really interesting to hear the story behind the music because sometimes we take that part for granted. We just kind of hear a song and we're like, okay, that's a bop. Or not. Definitely.

Jennifer Norman:
But yeah, it is much more meaningful than that. And I appreciate hear hearing that and to. And sharing that with the audience.

CJ Shaman:
Oh, thank you.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, yeah. Okay. And so now let's talk about the shaman. Let's talk about this. What is your spiritual sense? What has been your upbringing? I'm just really curious to see what your soul journey has been.

CJ Shaman:
Yes. So I come from... I'm an Arizona native. I was born in a small town in Arizona called Chino Valley, which the biggest, closest town is Prescott. And then we're in between Prescott and Flagstaff, and it's a little rural farming community that is actually back in the day when the Mormon settlers were coming west and like Utah and like Wyoming and parts of California and Arizona. Like, my little town was a little offshoot of, like, the Mormon settlement. Like, the first settlers there were Mormons, and they automatically built a little church. And so I grew up a Mormon in a Mormon household with a large family, five sisters and one brother.

CJ Shaman:
So seven kids all together and grew up, like, going to church and grew up on a little farm with, like, all sorts of animals. And all of our neighbors had little farms. And so I grew up very down home, rural, classic American, where you're, like, trading stuff with the neighbors, you're borrowing milk and eggs, and they're barring sugar and back and forth and just that kind of thing. Like, real wholesome and like, down home usa, like, so, like, Hallmark Channel status, you know what I mean? So that was really enjoyable. But I grew up.

Jennifer Norman:
What an evolution!

CJ Shaman:
Yeah, definitely grew up sheltered in this, in a way. But there was an energy in this town that I lived in that brought, like, so much culture and just being on the west coast in general and growing up in the 80s, where MTV was, like, coming on the scene, and there's a lot of cool art and music and, like, so many cool movies and things that were happening in the 80s. So being a young kid and growing up around all of that stuff, like, the height of, like, American culture, where we're. Where we were at our peak, had a huge influence on me. Like, I love being American. I love our culture. I love action movies. I love music. I love rock and roll. I love country music. I love, like, our desire to want to go big and be the best at things. And that was inspiring to me as a kid.

CJ Shaman:
And when I became a teenager, I started experimenting with drugs like acid and mushrooms and smoking pot and stuff like that with my buddies. And that obviously turned me on to wanting to listen to cool music, like 60s psychedelic music, like the Doors and Pink Floyd and Jimi Hendrix and Creedence Clearwater Revival and all that cool stuff from the 60s. I was very much inspired by that and into that, like, right away. It's like, as soon as I smoked my first joint and, like, listened to 60s music I was in, I was like, this is me. I'm one of these guys. You know what I mean?

CJ Shaman:
So being looking up to Jim Morrison so much as a kid and studying him and researching him and reading about him and his fascination with spirituality and shamanism and things like that definitely put me on a path to want to research those same things. And I really connected with what a shaman is to their... If you break it down, a shaman is. It doesn't matter. Us here in the world right now in the year 2025, like, we need a shaman. Like, our community, everybody needs a shaman.

CJ Shaman:
It doesn't. You don't have to dress a certain way. You don't have to look a certain way or come off any certain way. Like, I am a shaman. I'm a shaman because I'm willing to step out of reality and the boundaries that most people are afraid to step out of. I'm willing to go have a look and then come back and tell you what I saw. And if it's anything we can all use to better ourselves and to benefit us in any way. So that's to me what a shaman is. A shaman, or they're referred to as witch doctors or medicine men or whatever it is.

CJ Shaman:
It's. It's just the healer in the community who is willing to go outside the box, go beyond the mysterious veil, like take all those downloads in from the spirit realm and come back to the physical realm and use those to heal the community, to heal the tribe, to give guidance, to give wisdom and those kind of things. So being a musical artist, I feel that me creating songs and the song doesn't even need to really be about something spiritual. But the way I'm going, going to sing it and perform it and give it to you with my sauce on it, hopefully is going to have an effect on you that's going to be positive and put you on a path that was going to be more meaningful than the one that you were currently on. And so that's why I call myself CJ Shaman. And back in the day when me and my friends used to dive into psychedelics like acid a lot and mushrooms and peyote and things like that, I tended to be the one who sort of just was very much at home in that state and sort of felt like I was this old wise soul that sort of was like, when everyone else was kind of getting scared or fearful, I was sort of able to be the shaman who's like, it's going to be okay. We might have to walk out to the field and sit Indian style and hash out your traumas for the next couple hours. But when we're all said and done, you're going to be okay and we're going to be on back on the right track.

CJ Shaman:
So I started to realize, like, hey, I kind of am a shaman. So as the years went on and I wanted to come up with a cool stage name for myself, just one day I was sitting there and I was like, dude, I'm CJ Shaman. So I just rolled with it ever since.

Jennifer Norman:
It sounds like your first experiences with plant medicine was, were more experimental and more for, I guess, social recreation, as it were. Did it ever get to where you really, like, set intentions and wanted to go deep and actually hope to get messages back and bring them to other people?

CJ Shaman:
Absolutely. And you're 100% right. Like when you first do it, I was like 16 the first time I did acid. Had no idea what we were getting into. You know, you just hear like, stories of people trying to describe it. A lot of. There's little green men and stuff. And see, you're like, ah.

CJ Shaman:
So the very first time I took it, oh, man, it just blew my mind. I can't even describe it to you. I just can't describe it. But the effect it had on me was I was this person. And the acid stripped all that away and allowed me to be reborn with, like, a fresh slate, to take everything that I was taught. Everything. It's not like everything we're taught is a lie, but we're taught a lot of lies. We're brainwashed a lot.

CJ Shaman:
Like, I grew up, obviously, in the Mormon religion, and I was always sort of rebellious against it to begin. But this experience with acid for the first time really broke down and let me see the world with these eyes that, like, nobody really knows what's going on. Everyone's kind of lost. Everyone is just this person pretending like they kind of know what's going on. And that's what I saw, even in my parents. I was like, I love my parents, But I realized they don't know what's going on either. Like, I now know more what's going on than that. You know what I mean? In this one way.

CJ Shaman:
So it allowed me to see the world in this with these new eyes that are like, hey, the people that are telling us that they're the authority, like, these teachers that are trying to teach me, these law enforcement officers who are trying to keep me in line, like, what is the ultimate rule book that they're actually really following? And what does that have to do with me? And I just saw that it had nothing to do with me and that I was able to be free. And so acid basically freed me. I'm free now. And then you do it more and more, and you're hoping to keep. Keep gaining more of that feeling. And then a lot of times, it'll take you to a dark place, and then you come back and now you kind of have to start all over again, and you're feeling, like, very weary and weak. Like, oh, man. Like, I thought I knew what was going on, and I might.

CJ Shaman:
Your ego starts to think you're some spiritual guru or something, and then it just knocks you down on your ass ago. No, you're not. You don't know, like. You know what I mean? And so I definitely went through some experiences like that. And then, like you said with intention, I definitely. There's a point in my life where all by myself, I took mushrooms by myself, and I isolated myself because I didn't want to be distracted by anything that anyone else was doing. And I just wanted to be stuck in the dark with myself and, like, have an experience. I did, to say the least.

CJ Shaman:
Like, that is the first time I experienced, like, leaving my body and going to basically, like, dying, basically, like, going to the spirit world, experiencing what's beyond the veil and realizing, like, holy. Like, I don't have my body here with me, but I'm still CJ. I'm still me. And that didn't really blow my mind because I grew up, up believing in heaven, believing that we're a soul, believing that you come, you inhabit this body, and then you die. And your spirit or your soul goes on to another realm, another world, heaven, whatever it is. And so in that moment, I realized that that was absolutely true. And everything about your soul being separate from your body and being, like, kind of everlasting really made sense to me because I was basically flying through the cosmos without my body but still being completely aware of who I was. So I took away from that experience.

CJ Shaman:
I remember telling all my friends about it, like, dude, I was, like, totally out of my body, bro. But I was, like, still me. The same thoughts, the same everything, but just, like, without my body.

Jennifer Norman:
Wow.

CJ Shaman:
And then, like, going back into my body. And then basically when I. When that experience was over, I sort of, like, came to out of the experience, soaked in sweat, just soaking wet. I, like, went into the bathroom. I could barely, like, move. I felt like, have you ever seen, like, a baby horse, like a baby colt be born? And they're just all, like, wobbly and all we wet and drippy with the birth residue and stuff, and they're trying to get their bearings. Like, that's literally how I felt. I felt I was taking my first steps.

CJ Shaman:
I went into the bathroom, and I was a smoker. I, like, coughed up, like, the gnarliest black, like, horror movie, like, thing out of my lungs, like, into the sink. And I was like, dude, like, I'm reborn. Like, I'm fresh and brand new. I'm reborn from that experience. And right before that, I should mention, for about. In my world, that felt maybe, like, 45 minutes. But I don't know.

CJ Shaman:
It could have just been a couple of seconds. But I remember after I was brought from basically, like, flying throughout this spiritual world and getting all these downloads, it's then, like, I was placed, like, so gently, like, in the warmest, most coziest, like, womb you could possibly imagine. Like, you're just in your mother's womb. And I felt so good. I remember, excuse me, not wanting to leave that and then being like, okay, it's time, I gotta wake up now and just like open my eyes. And literally I was just like reborn. Soaking wet. Felt like a brand new baby colt.

CJ Shaman:
Get to start life all over again. And that was definitely the most prolific, profound, like plant medicine experience I've ever had for sure.

Jennifer Norman:
Wow. Thank you for being so open and sharing that. That's absolutely incredible. I am eager to get beyond the veil. I have not gotten to that. I unfortunately had a semi panic attack as I was getting there. For whatever reason, I was scared. And I think it was because the experience that I had that got me to that moment was very abrupt for me.

Jennifer Norman:
It was the first time that I was like, doing like straight vaped DMT. And it was like really, really very sudden. Like the whole world just shattered in front of me in like a split second. And so it was a very jarring experience. And I almost got there, but I just felt like I was grasping to get back. And so I think maybe if I had a bit more tender guidance and maybe a different approach, then I would get there. But it's interesting that different kinds of plant medicines that give you different experiences too.

Jennifer Norman:
Like, I haven't done acid. That's one that I'm also a little bit intimidated to do because it lasts for so long. Like you can do like a DMT, it's like 10 minutes. Or mushrooms, it lasts, give and take how much you take. But yeah, mushrooms always give me like this almost like heady, very, like I start thinking very deeply when I do mushrooms. I don't really start hallucinating or anything, but I definitely get very creative and heady and very just like super analyzing things for whatever reason. And ayahuasca was probably the most interesting experience that I had on a positive note, where I felt like I was flying through the cosmos. And I got of a lot, a lot, a lot of very helpful downloads to almost to the point where I felt like I don't need to do it anymore ever in my life.

Jennifer Norman:
I'm. I'm good.

CJ Shaman:
No, you're absolutely right. I try to tell people like, it's medicine, so once you're healed, like you don't have to keep doing it. And like, you know, maybe as I haven't done it in years, but maybe as a shaman, maybe I'll be called to guide some people through a ceremony at some point so it'll be asked of me. But it's a give and take scenario. Every time you go to the outer world, it's giving you something, but it's taking something from you as well. And a lot people who do a lot of psychedelics can become schizophrenic because...

Jennifer Norman:
You lose touch with the physical.

CJ Shaman:
When the physical body is having to deal with like your heart rate and everything being so heightened that it's like a hardcore experience to go through, man, it's intense. And so for your spirit it can be good. But also later on for your physical form and body you're being having to use so much serotonin to be able to see these visuals and, and experience these things that later on in life you kind of wish you had some of that serotonin back just to keep an even keel and stay normal. And I've struggled with things like that before. Like your highs can be very high, your lows can be very low because the serotonin levels aren't what they used to be. And so I would just always tell people that you're going to experiment with plant medicine. Do it with intention, do it with the thought in mind that you are looking for something, that you're looking to be healed, that you're looking to gain some sort of knowledge that's going to help you in your life. And don't just do it because you like want to get off.

CJ Shaman:
Because you're like, man, I just want to get some feeling. I'm chasing some feeling of like euphoria, like what coke or opiates or those kind of things do. You're searching for this euphoric feeling of just feeling really good. And plant medicine, when the plant medicine starts to wear off and you sort of awaken from the experience, I always get a very intense feeling of euphoria. Like everything's right with the world. I'm at one with everything. Like little bluebirds are going to land on my shoulder and I'm going to have a pet raccoon and be a Disney princess and stuff. It really does feel like that.

CJ Shaman:
So I think people sometimes times when they experience that feeling, I think maybe they're always trying to get that feeling back. But that feeling is so special and unique and rare that if you're allowed to experience it just once, like, I think, I think that's a big win. So, you know, we live in a time where lots of people are wanting to go do ayahuasca ceremonies and do DMT that's so readily available. And I just hope that people are using good intent with it and being in good environments and making sure they're doing the right ones. And nothing that's laced with anything dangerous. Nothing. And yeah, back in the day, me and my friends, we were lucky enough to live near this university that was totally like this, for lack of a better way to explain it.

CJ Shaman:
Just like a hippie, little, small hippie school for, like, rich, like, trustafarian kids. We would call them, like kids that were like dudes with dreadlocks and looking like they're in a reggae band, but literally their parents are like millionaires back east or whatever and send them out to this school to learn, like, white water rafting or whatever. And they had this little, little coffee shop place called the Blue Moon Cafe. And so if you needed whatever you needed, you needed weed, acid, whatever, you would just go to this cafe, look for the guy with the backpack and, like the dog, you know what I mean? And that was the guy with the stuff. And, man, we were able to get our hands on, like, actual, like, real, like lsd, like acid, like from San Francisco, like the real thing. And that was like the late 90s. And I'm not sure where people are getting acid these days or who's making it, but there was pure LSD. Today it is a rarity.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, yeah, Now there's so much fentanyl going on and it's just so dangerous. I've heard of more than my share of people unfortunately losing their lives to these fentanyl overdoses that. Because they bought something that they didn't realize had it in it. And. Yeah, I feel like you didn't necessarily have to worry about the cleanliness of what you were getting before like that.

Jennifer Norman:
But to your point, the reintegration is very important to make sure that, like, once you land, because your world will. Your perspective of the world, there's no way that it cannot not change. After having an experience like that, you are so much more expanded. And you do see that everything that we've had in our physical perspective was only just one side of the story. And that's why everybody says, oh, the Matrix was a documentary, you know, because there's like, all this stuff going on behind the scenes that we worry about these trivial, petty things. We worry about all the things that we can control and our stuff, the things that we think are so important. When we can release all that ego and when we can let it go and recognize the oneness of everybody together, then it is different.

Jennifer Norman:
But there are unfortunately so many souls that are still kind of trapped in this convention. And so, lots of love to your parents, to my parents, to parents who were brought up in Dogma, because that's what they knew. They, you know, it's, doing psychedelics is not something that everybody did. However, it is a very mind opening experience. And since then I've really started to follow Baba Ram Dass and a lot of the less lessons and things that he had provided to the world because he was such a rebel when it came to studying his acid trips and those of others as well.

Jennifer Norman:
Hit subscribe right now for more stories and inspiring conversations with me, Jennifer Norman, the host of The Human Beauty Movement Podcast.

Jennifer Norman:
So interesting. Well, thanks so much for that fun detour into your shamanism. I think it definitely expresses like how you started and where this transition came to, saying, you know what? I don't have to live by these rules anymore. I don't have to be that, like, that I can do something. And I think music is such a beautiful form of that music. Using your voice, using everything that you hand to create these vibrations that really energize and express what you're feeling and connect with others with a certain emotion. What kind of connection through your music are you hoping that people gain from listening to your music from actually going to a show and seeing you perform?

CJ Shaman:
Hmm, good question. So honestly, I think it comes down to being very childlike innocence. I want people just to enjoy it and have fun. Like, I think there's so much turmoil in the world today. There's so much drama. There's so much someone like me. I don't watch the news, but I do follow just enough of it so that I can kind of see what they're trying to do. And they're really trying to put people in a state of fear.

CJ Shaman:
So I would hope that with my music, it counteracts that state of fear and allows you to be optimistic, stick and feel happy and groovy and like, dude, I just got out of this CJ Shaman concert, man, that was badass. Like, hell yeah. Like, I just feel good. That was fun. I felt like a little kid. I just want to make people feel like a little kid. Like children, you know, children are the future. Children are so close to God and so close to the other side that we were just talking about because they're just freshly here from that place.

CJ Shaman:
And so they're innocent and they don't judge people too much. They're not out to really like, lie or steal or cheat anyone. They're literally just sort of curious about this world that we're living. And I would just like to bring people back to that state about just being curious and about just being in the moment and enjoying something literally just for what it is. Like we're listening to music and it's making us feel good and then boom. Period. And that's what I want to give people. And for people who are more sophisticated and more searching for, like, I want to take like some DMT and listen to CJ Shaman and see what that does.

CJ Shaman:
I mean, I hope it's going to take them on some super groovy metaphysical adventure, because that's definitely in there. But just naturally I don't really try to force that or make anything like that. When I'm in the studio, like producing the songs with my producers and wondering, I hear in my head and then I translate it to them and they make it happen. So whatever is coming to me, I don't even know that it's me. I think that I might in the equivalent of a medium or an auto pen. I'm just the messenger. And so these songs exist out there somewhere and they are coming to this physical realm through me as the medium. And that's how it literally feels.

CJ Shaman:
I feel like I'm not even even really a songwriter, a musician or anything like that. I'm just translating what's coming to me because I've never been taught any of this. I'm not. I can't read music. I've never taken singing lessons, I don't play an instrument. I literally hear this stuff in my head and I usually get aligned with people who are able to. For me to translate it to them and then they make it happen and then, boom. We make a good team.

Jennifer Norman:
That is so cool. Amazing. Amazing. I'm really curious what you make of the music industry today, because we were both born in the 70s and then going through the 80s like you said, when music was just like the best, I personally believe. But that's just me talking. I'm a little bit biased, but there was just such a difference and some could say, for better or worse, the music industry, with all like the big labels and then they would. The ownerships and all of that, and now it's so democratized and it's just a whole different landscape.

Jennifer Norman:
What is your opinion on where we are today with music and what is, like, how do you see yourself navigating through that?

CJ Shaman:
So if I were to come at it from a practical point of view, I would not even do it because everything tells me that the market is way oversaturated. With musicians and band and music and that I don't really have a chance in hell of making it. But since I'm a spiritual person and I believe in God and I believe in faith and I believe in purpose, I know that I'm going to make it no matter what. Despite how evil the music industry, despite how toxic it is, despite how backwards it is, like, none of that's going to affect me because I have a purpose, and my purpose is for my music to be heard. So I kind of bypass all that. And I've been doing this a long time, and I've met plenty of people who want to, like, sit you down and try to be like, look, so this is how it is, and this is how it's going to be, and it's going to be really hard for you and all those things. And I'm just all cool. I don't care.

CJ Shaman:
Like, you know what I mean? So that has served me well. And I think having all the experience I've had spiritually, that have basically, like, showed me, like, hey, this is you and this is your path. So it's like, it's not even a question of, like, if, it's just a question of when. And also, I've been on this path for a long time and, like, I'll let you in on something. Like, as a younger guy, I'm very sensitive. I'm very empathic. Like, I love animals. I don't even want to, like, step on an ant or smash a fly or any of that.

CJ Shaman:
Like, I really do respect all life form and very sensitive. I would. People would kind of pick on me when I was younger and I, you know, I would cry and very easy to cry, very emotional, but for a reason. I'm so in tune and so in touch. That's why I can be this artist that I am. But God really had to put me through a lot of trials and tribulations to basically toughen me up, give me armor, give me strength, and just make me be this person who can withstand the storm that would come my way, being this person. So I've been on a long path and I've had to learn a lot of lessons to be where I'm at right now, which is on the precipice of fame and stardom and all those things. But if this would have come to me even 10 years ago, 15 years ago, I would have been really happy and excited about it, but I would not have done the proper things that God wants me to do.

CJ Shaman:
And I probably would have fell for a lot of the toxic traps that end up kind of ruining your life and get knock you off of your true purpose. So it's definitely been an annoying path for it to be this long. But I trust in God and I know he's got my back. And I can feel the end near. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. And being this age and this awareness, I can look back and just be like, you know what? I totally get why it had to take this long and why I'm on this path and I'm really at peace with it and it's really beautiful and I wouldn't have it any other way. Like, I'm literally like been forged in the fire.

CJ Shaman:
Like, I actually have a song that I talk about this in the song Sword in the Fire. Like, I am sword that was forged in the fire in the flames. I had to like, walk through hell to get to where I am. And so I did that and here I am and I'm still standing. And that's what I want to inspire people too, is like, no matter how far in the pit you are, like, if you're alive and you're breathing, dude, you can climb out of that pit. You're gonna climb out of that pit. And you probably got placed in the pit so that you can climb out of it. Because when you do climb out of that pit, boy, do you feel like, sorry, like a badass.

CJ Shaman:
And then God's like, boom, see, you're a badass, but you weren't until you climbed out of that pit. Right? So that's why he puts you in the pit.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, man, what a powerful lesson for so many. And you're right. When I think the fame comes to, like, to people that are too young or not ready for it, then it can lead to implosion. And we've seen it time and time again, particularly in the music industry or in the entertainment industry in general. But yeah, you've got a very, very strong foundation now and it's pretty much unflappable. So that you're able to handle it now.

CJ Shaman:
You're able to go pretty deep now.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, yeah. No, that's absolutely so important to learn. And yeah, and people do get impatient, especially now, because they see other people and they're like, oh, that person was like an overnight sensation. Where's what about me? And then they start feeling really down on themselves. And that doesn't help either. It's just, yeah, you gotta have that school hard knock sometimes to really, really get to kind of pay the dues, cut your teeth, and maybe it's also to build your skills. Maybe your voice wasn't ready. Maybe your musical intuition wasn't quite ready yet.

Jennifer Norman:
So all of that leads to such good things. And I'm really happy that we're in a time now where age doesn't matter anymore. I kind of feel like the music industry would be like, you know what, if you're over 29 or something like that, then you really like, what's the point? I almost feel like that might have been the message that'll lot of people have gotten over the years, but now I feel like almost anybody at any age can do it. Because there's an appeal, there's a realness there. There's a part of life and a message at this stage of life that you're at too.

CJ Shaman:
Yeah, I feel that to be true as well. And I obviously try to take very good care of myself. With the age I'm at and the wisdom that I have, I've realized that what we put in our body is very important. As a younger person, you eat for pleasure now. I eat for fuel and to be healthy. And obviously I let myself. Myself still enjoy, like things. But you find out how important your physical body really is to everything, even to your spirit and even to what I'm trying to do as a musician.

CJ Shaman:
Like, the healthier I am, the better I feel, the better my songs are, the better my music is, the better my performances, the better I look, the better I feel about myself. People can actually look at me and take me serious. It's like, oh, this guy thinks he needs to be seen by the whole world up there singing his songs. Well, okay, I guess. I guess he's worthy, you know, what mean? I. I mean, and so that would be one of the main things also that I would like to be as an example to people is to try to be really healthy and take really good care of yourself. Because wealth is health. And to have a healthy body that doesn't have a disease or a sickness is the most beautiful, wonderful gift you're we're ever going to have as humans.

CJ Shaman:
Because the moment you wake up and you face your mortality, I've seen it with friends and family and loved ones. As soon as they find out that something is wrong with them, they're just so scared and they're so like, man, why me? And why is this happening, happening? And yeah, and nothing matters now other than me getting better. Whereas before so many different things mattered. But if you put your health first, then like, that's just one thing you don't have to worry about, you know what I mean? Like, let everything else come at you. But if you're healthy, you're going to be able to tackle it all. You know what I mean? If you're not, you're gonna be. It's gonna be hard to do anything if you're a weakling, you know what I mean?

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, I know this is a sidebar, but to your point, I spell wealth W-E-L-L-T-H. Because I really true believe that when you are well, then you will be wealthy. It's like it leads into everything else that can thrive in your life. And your food is your medicine. And so many people don't even realize that what they're putting into their body is affecting their mood, it's affecting the clarity of their consciousness, it's affecting, like, their stamina and all of that. And unfortunately, the food that a lot of us are eating is very calorie dense and nutrient thin, shall I say. So being pretty mindful about that and exercising, getting off the couch, and it was just so, so important.

Jennifer Norman:
I mean, I'm 55 and I realized early on that I was like, I wanted to also not ever look my age. I probably haven't ever looked my age, to be honest with you. But yeah, it's longevity. It's like such a good thing to feel like I don't even care how what the chronological age I am. It's just like I feel really good. Go to the gym and I'm like kicking ass and I feel good. So.

CJ Shaman:
Yeah, you look absolutely wonderful and stunning for 55. I would have guessed more like in your late 30s, but I knew you were doing good, so I thought you were more like my age. But wow. Yeah, you are definitely crushing with whatever it is you're doing. Keep doing it.

Jennifer Norman:
Thank you. Well, that's very sweet to say. Now, speaking of crushing it, I know you've got some exciting things on the horizon, so I want to give you this time to do a humble brag on some of the things that you're. You have on your plate now and what we can look forward to hearing in the future.

CJ Shaman:
All right, so my label is partnered with Virgin Atlantic, those record labels, and it's called Bentley Records, and they're more of like a fresh, fresh new startup, like, innovative label. My boss, Luca Days, my CEO, he's a very innovative entrepreneur who's really trying to change the game and make it very artist friendly and sort of take it away from the monopoly of the major record labels. And so I'm really proud to be aligned with him. And he's a really great guy, very kind, very real. And in this industry, it's very important to be aligned with good people. And so I'm very lucky in that way. And it may take a little longer, but I'd rather the road trip take longer and we all get there safe and in one piece, you know, I mean, metaphorically speaking. So the promotion for this new album, El Diablo de Ocho, The Devil of Eight, will be rolling out soon.

CJ Shaman:
So this album, the single El Diablo, the music video for the single El Diablo, should be getting a ton of exposure, which is going to bring a lot of wonderful opportunities my way to showcase myself on a worldwide scale. And then I also have some fun collabs coming up. I did a collab with the artist Drake, a collab with the artist Post Malone alone that are outside of the style that people know me for. Like they know me for more of this, like outlaw country, like rock artist. But little do they know I grew up in hip hop too, and I can lay it down in many different ways. So this is going to be sort of a new side of me that people are seeing on these collabs. And obviously they're with very major successful artists, so that'll bring me a lot of exposure and credibility to be aligned with those names, which is exciting for me.

CJ Shaman:
And as well as I was just able... Just returned from Nashville a couple weeks ago recording some new material with a brand new producer, Dean Miller, who's the son of legendary Roger Miller, a legendary songwriter and artist out of Nashville. He's actually the guy that discovered Patsy Cline's plane crash back in the day, his father. So he's a very interesting, cool cat. I got to work with him and his boys and man, the music we created is definitely the best music I've ever made in my life so far. So stay tuned for that. The best of CJ Shaman is yet to come. Like I said, this album, album is a finality to an era in the beginning of a brand new one. So from here on out, when you are hearing about me and from me, it's going to be a little bit different than anyone's ever seen before.

CJ Shaman:
So I'm really excited about that.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, we're so excited too. You heard it first, everybody. Beautiful humans, CJ Shaman, look him up and you are going to be hearing so much more from him. CJ, it was such a pleasure to have you on the show today. Thank you so much for your time.

CJ Shaman:
I'm so thank you Jennifer. The pleasure was all mine. You were so lovely and you asked such great questions and I just had a great time. Like congratulations on what you're doing and I wish you nothing but success.

Jennifer Norman:
Thank you so much.

CJ Shaman:
Check.

Jennifer Norman:
Thank you for listening to The Human Beauty Movement Podcast. Be sure to follow, rate and review us wherever you stream podcasts. The Human Beauty Movement is a community based platform that cultivates the beauty of humankind. Check out our workshops, find us on social media and share our inspiration with all the beautiful humans in your life. Learn more at thehumanbeautymovement.com. Thank you so much for being a beautiful human.