The Truth About Pen!s Size with Dr. Joel Pash

Jennifer Norman:
Okay, beautiful humans. This episode is all about a vital aspect of sexual health, the penis. In a world where self image and confidence are often closely tied to physical appearance, men, just like women, are not immune to the pressures of societal standards. One of the most sensitive areas for men is the concern over penis size. Studies show that as many as 45% of men are dissatisfied with the size of their penis, which can profoundly impact their emotional well being, self esteem, and even their relationships. While we often hear about women grappling with body image issues, this subject has largely been taboo when it comes to men. But the truth is, for many, concerns about penis size are deeply emotional and can lead to an anxiety, insecurity, and a sense of inadequacy that affects many aspects of their lives.

Jennifer Norman:
Today we're joined by Dr. Joel Pash, one of America's most trusted penis enlargement doctors and the co founder of the Upsize Clinic. With years of experience in advanced male enhancement techniques, Dr. Joel has helped countless men find the confidence that they've been searching for. His compassionate, holistic approach combines his expertise in injectables with a deep understanding of the psychological factors surrounding male enhancement. So here's your invitation to get curious. Keep listening if you want to learn more about men's sexual health, boosting self confidence and body satisfaction. If you or a loved one is feeling small about penis size, our conversation today will offer upsized potential.

Jennifer Norman:
Please be advised that the content shared on this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Any medical procedures or treatments discussed should only be pursued under the guidance and supervision of a licensed healthcare professional. Dr. Joel's insights are based on his professional experience and expertise, but individual results may vary. Always consult with a qualified medical provider before making decisions related to your health or undergoing any medical treatments, including those related to penile enhancements.

Jennifer Norman:
Whew. Okay, so now that we've gotten all of that out of the way, let's welcome Dr. Pash to the show.

Jennifer Norman:
Hi, Joel. How are you doing today?

Dr. Joel Pash:
Good, thanks for having me. Doing well.

Jennifer Norman:
I'm glad that you are here to help to demystify a part of men's sexual health that has largely been taboo. I know that as a single woman who has been on dating apps quite a bit, I've seen more of my share of penises. Let's just put that out there right now. And so I know that there are sometimes guys that come in and they're really confident about the size of all of their aspects of their bodies and others who, for whatever reason are a little bit sheepish and insecure. Can you tell me, like, what is the nature of guys that tend to come into upsized clinic and what are they looking for? What are they really faced with here?

Dr. Joel Pash:
Well, I think that there is an average size, I should say, of penis, right? And so by definition, I think half the people are above that and half are below that. And the people that I get into my clinic are all over the map, right? It's not like it's guys just on the bottom 10th percentile or something like that. It's everyone. Some people think they have a small penis. Some think they already have a big one and they just want it bigger. Some maybe have confidence issues. Some just want to have fun and just. They don't necessarily have confidence issues, but they just want it bigger.

Dr. Joel Pash:
So it's really all over the map. I guess the reason I brought up averages in the first place was it's a pretty normal distribution that I get in there. The average person is right in the middle, right?

Jennifer Norman:
And so I was looking up some facts about the average penis size. And so I wanted everybody to take note that when we're talking about flight flaccid length, the average flaccid penis length is about 3.6 inches. And so that's 9.16 centimeters. When the penis is erect, an average length is 5.1 inches, 13 centimeters. Flaccid girth is about the circumference of the penis is about 3.6, and erect girth is about 4.5. And I think that some people have these misconceptions like, oh, the big 10 inch, or what have you. And I will tell you that as a woman, that is frightening. It's like, for the most part, it's like, oh, my God, that is like, painful.

Jennifer Norman:
And for women also, after you've had a child or several children, I mean, everything stretches. And so there's always this concern like, oh, my gosh, I've heard guys make jokes like, it's like throwing a hot dog through a hallway. And I was like, okay, we don't need to hear too much about that stuff. But, yeah, and so women get insecure that their bodies aren't quite right. And so there's certainly a lot of medical procedures that are around vaginal shaping and whatnot. But for guys, it could be that they might be looking at pornography and comparing themselves to something that they're seeing or maybe feeling like they're not satisfying their female counterpart or their male counterpart in the right way, or like you said, sometimes they just want to explore and feel like, hey, this might be something interesting to try.

Dr. Joel Pash:
Yeah. I think backing up to something you said earlier about the average size being 3.6 inches, placid or whatever, a lot of guys have this misconception, like you said, that the average size is like. Like 6 inches or something like that. And we commonly will get, especially in phone calls or text messages, like, I just want to add 4 or 5 inches on to. Or something like, seriously. Right. And it's like, I don't answer messages anymore. We have people that do that, but I see a lot of them that come in and it's like, take out a tape measure and put that on and see, like, what.

Dr. Joel Pash:
Exactly. It's an absurd comment in a certain way. So the reason I bring that up is that people have this unrealistic idea of what normal is and also of what you could add on. Right. I mean, there's just like, you can't even add a half a centimeter onto the length of your leg, for example. So how are you going to get four and a half inches onto the length of your penis?

Jennifer Norman:
And as far as the actual procedure, I understand that you're not really even adding length. It's more about girth. Is that correct?

Dr. Joel Pash:
Yeah, yeah. And it's... The absurd text messages are always about length because. But you see, the thing with adding length on is that it's. And I just alluded to this a second ago, it's impossible, really, to add length onto any part of your body. You'd have to cut it in half, add a bunch of nerves, arteries.

Jennifer Norman:
That doesn't sound like a pleasant experience.

Dr. Joel Pash:
Right. You'd have to add all this stuff in and then sew it back together. So it's just not something that is. Can't think of any part of your body that you could, like, make longer but thicker is you just add material onto the. The inside and it makes it thicker. Right. It's analogous to, like, you can easily get fatter, but you can't get taller.

Jennifer Norman:
Fortunately or unfortunately for some people.

Dr. Joel Pash:
Right.

Jennifer Norman:
You're right.

Dr. Joel Pash:
You can't be a little bit of both.

Jennifer Norman:
But, yeah, yeah. I think that that is actually very good for people to just understand, like, you cannot add length. So this is really not just to manage expectations. This is really not talking about adding inches, let alone any amount of millimeters, to the length of your penis. This is really about something that is helping to expand circumference, if you will, when it's flaccid and when it is erect, right?

Dr. Joel Pash:
Correct.

Jennifer Norman:
Okay, excellent.

Dr. Joel Pash:
So we do see a little bit of flaccid length increasing, which is not necessarily useful to most people, but I guess it looks better. The reason is because when you put filler in, it's almost like you're putting kind of scaffolding in there that just makes it not be able to shrink. So you can make it longer to the extent that it's still shorter than the erection, but when it gets erect, it's going to grow past that point, past the flasking point. So. But yes, it's mostly a thickness procedure. The way we do it is we put dermal filler underneath the skin. And so the more filler you put in, the thicker it gets. It's just like getting bigger lips with filler.

Jennifer Norman:
Got it, got it. And so we'll talk about the actual procedure in a moment. But I thought that it would be helpful because before when women would have procedures, it used to be like, hush, hush, don't let anybody know that I've had Botox or fillers or whatnot. And now people are announcing it on Instagram. This is what I've done. And they're actually like mapping out on their faces exactly what they have had done and naming doctors. And it's become like so open as far as just, yeah, this is a natural part of beauty of health and well being. Men are probably not so much there when it comes to penis upsizing.

Jennifer Norman:
I think right now it might be still something that is kept a little bit private for the most part. And so I'm curious, like what you were seeing, Are you seeing that there is a bit more openness now about people being just like, hey, I've gotten penis enlargements, injections, or where are we in this phase?

Dr. Joel Pash:
Well, I think it's a little different and probably always will be than the women's analogy. And that's just because the way guys are, especially with each other, like if I just putting myself in this situation, if I went and got a penis enlargement for myself and I told my friends, they would immediately say, that's hilarious. Pash has a small penis, he had to get a bigger penis, right? Now if a women gets lip injections, even if someone says, oh yeah, she had small lips, like, who cares, right? That's not like embarrassing to you that you had small lips in the first place? Now in reality, the people that come into the office do not have small penises. But it's just that the way guys interact with each other is going to be like, we're going to make fun of each other. Whether it's for fun or not for fun is not even the point, Right. It's just that guys are going to be a little bit uncomfortable telling their friends now. Like, for example, an exception would be like, gay guys, right? Like, I have a lot of gay patients and they're awesome because they'll immediately like, show all their friends, right? Say, hey, look what I got.

Dr. Joel Pash:
But I find like, most guys, that's not the case. They're just like, oh, I can never tell my friends because they'll make fun of me or something like that. But if it was like acceptable to just pull your wiener out and show all your friends, they would probably think, wow, that's pretty cool. I should do that, right?

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. I want to say, as an aside, I think that it's adorable that you call yourself a Dick Doctor. I mean, I think just having a healthy sense of humor about all of this helps to just clear the air in general and make it a little bit easier to talk about. So just putting that out there. The other thing that I think is important to know is you mentioned that you have a lot of gay clientele, but it seems like you have people from all walks of life of all ages that are interested in this. And so it's not just a specific type of man that is coming in and looking for penile enlargement or enhancement. It's really everyone.

Dr. Joel Pash:
Yeah, there is an average age which is about 35 to 55. Not so many guys that are under the age of 25 or so. I think it's mostly financial things, like by the time you're a little bit older, you're usually more financially secure. But we have guys in their 70s and 80s. Like, I think the oldest that any of us in our organization have had is like 85 years old. And I've had an 80 year old. And so what a lot of younger people don't realize, but that you learn in medical school is old guys are having lots of sex, right? Like, you think they're not, but they are. I mean, you might not want to.

Jennifer Norman:
Like, you don't want to know about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Joel Pash:
They're having fun.

Jennifer Norman:
It's so true. I actually think that now that I am older, it's like you realize that people are just people. Our bodies are aging. But yeah, we're still having sex, we're still having fun, we still have desires, we still have a lot of virility left. It's just as far as just the idea of it earlier I think that a lot of people are. They're maintaining their youth a bit longer now in terms of just being aware of longevity and keeping vital and all of those things. And so perhaps these kinds of things will continue to age up as the population continues to get older too.

Dr. Joel Pash:
Yeah, I think so. I think guys, we're seeing not only with their penis, but I see guys that come in and they've had things, they had chin implants and cheek injections and not so much like lip injections, but all kinds of Botox and all that. And yeah, that's just exactly. For guys it's becoming more common.

Jennifer Norman:
Mhm.

Dr. Joel Pash:
Right. And with guys, most of the time, I can't tell if they've had it done. Right. It's just they write it in their medical history because, you know, they've had procedures done before. But I feel like that would be very uncommon 20 years ago for like a 35 year old guy to have filler put in their face.

Jennifer Norman:
Right, exactly. And I'm intrigued because I always thought, well, maybe it's a California thing, you know, I'm based in Los Angeles, where maybe those things are more common than in the middle of the country, for example. But who knows, it could be something that people are doing just about everywhere because it's becoming more readily available and it's becoming something that is more acceptable.

Dr. Joel Pash:
Yeah, I mean, we have lots of doctors that are in middle America. Like we have one of our doctors is in Omaha, Nebraska. Right. It doesn't get any more middle than that. And he has a med spa. So presumably there's lots of people coming in doing those things there too, of course, in Los Angeles or in Boca Raton, where one of my offices is, or in San Francisco, for example. I would think those places are kind of like the mecca of these kind of cosmetic procedures, but they are done everywhere.

Jennifer Norman:
Interesting. The other thing I wanted to ask is, and this might be a little bit hard to answer, but as far as women and their own dissatisfaction with their bodies, whether it comes to breast size or just physical shape, all of those things, there's been so much societal pressure to look like a standard part. And so there's been a lot of insecurities and lack of confidence that is built within women that makes them want to seek these kinds of procedures so that they'll be more accepted by other people. I'm curious if there's any awareness of like how much are people. Are men doing this for their own self satisfaction because they want to do it for them, or if they're doing it for somebody else, you know what I'm saying?

Dr. Joel Pash:
Yeah. I think most guys are doing it for themselves. I think it's a bad idea to do it for someone else because the reality is, in my opinion, at least your wife or girlfriend or partner, whoever it is, doesn't care if your penis is four inches thick or four and a half inches.

Dr. Joel Pash:
It's like, okay, yeah, it might be nice or whatever. Like, if your girlfriend is telling you you need to go out and pay $10,000 to get a half inch put on your penis, you might want to look for a different partner there. Right. So now it's a different story. Like, sometimes they come in together and they're like, oh, let's have fun. Let's, like, do something exciting. That's different. Right.

Dr. Joel Pash:
But, like, most guys aren't. At least shouldn't be doing it for their partner. But so I would say, like, most guys are just doing it for themselves because they're want to see what it's going to be like to have a bigger one. Maybe they're insecure. That could certainly be the case. And then maybe we can help that. Or maybe they're just not insecure, but just curious. And I will say, like, interestingly, that guys that are not necessarily insecure that come in and get something done, a lot of them get, like a little bit obsessed with it after the fact.

Dr. Joel Pash:
Like, they'll say, like, oh, I didn't think I ever would really care that much about it. But once they see it's bigger, then they start thinking I should get even bigger. I should measure it. I should do this and that. Right?

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. Interesting. Okay, so let's talk about the actual procedure itself. Can you walk us through what happens?

Dr. Joel Pash:
Yeah. The procedure itself takes about an hour. It's done under local anesthesia in the office. It's done. It's all, we're doctors, all that do it. So it's all done with sterile equipment and professionally done. Not really any pain because we numb everything.

Dr. Joel Pash:
Once that's all done, it's injections that goes underneath the skin. And the kind of length of time that it takes is somewhat dependent on how much filler you're getting put in, because each milliliter of filler takes some time to do. But I would say, on average, 45 minutes to an hour is the total length. Length of time. When it's done, we just wrap it up in a gauze. We tell everyone to take the wrap off in a few hours, and then that's about it. They have some bruising and some swelling after for about a week, but no restrictions or anything like that. So people just usually get onto their normal routine right away.

Dr. Joel Pash:
I should say that we ask people not to have sex for a week, but other than that, we don't.

Jennifer Norman:
So aftercare is pretty minimal. It's just be cautious for the week afterwards.

Dr. Joel Pash:
Yeah, there's some. By comparison, there's some doctors out there that are doing similar procedures that have all kinds of crazy aftercare protocols. I've seen up to 30 pages of stuff, and you have to wrap things and do certain things for 30 days or whatever. But we've kind of developed our technique or honed it over time, so it doesn't really require any of that stuff. And then, of course, surgical things, you'll be out for months sometimes.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, my. Okay. Yes. And what we're talking here is injectable, not surgical.

Dr. Joel Pash:
Right.

Jennifer Norman:
So just wanted to also make sure that that was apparent to the listeners. As far as managing expectations on the maximum that somebody, like, percentage wise, would be able to increase. Is there such a thing? Or can somebody have as much as they want, kind of, put onto the circumference of their penis?

Dr. Joel Pash:
Yeah, there isn't like an absolute maximum. It's very similar to breast implants. You can get an obscene, absurd size. Right. That it's like, it looks ridiculous. And so you could do that on your penis also. But what happens is the proportions just. Just don't look right.

Dr. Joel Pash:
And it starts looking...

Jennifer Norman:
It's wider than it is longer.

Dr. Joel Pash:
Yeah. Like, it's like. I mean, I have guys that have done that and for whatever reason they want it, but there is kind of some limit in terms of what would look reasonable and would look good. So. And that depends on your starting size. Right. Because just for illustration, if you're starting out with 1 inch in thickness, which no one does, but I'm just using that as an illustration, and then you add on 2 inches, you just like triple the size. Right.

Dr. Joel Pash:
So obviously that's not going to look normal, but we start out at 4 inches, let's say, which is a normal circumference. Probably you can add 2 inches before it starts looking not normal, but again, you can add as much as you want. It just won't look right. So let's say 2 inches, to answer your question.

Jennifer Norman:
And this is not something that is going to help with erectile dysfunction. Correct. This is something that is really more cosmetic, not necessarily medical in terms of performance and being able to have an erection, but it can be something that's concomitant.

Dr. Joel Pash:
Yeah. Like it does not directly help with erections in the sense that it does not increase blood flow to the penis. Of course, people having more confidence or less stage fright, so to speak, could make you get an erection easier. And so if your erectile dysfunction has all kinds of different causes, it's not, it's anything from like horrible vascular disease to just nervousness. Right. So if it's on that other second spectrum where you're just nervous or bad self esteem, it might actually help. But it's just not helping physiologically. Right. It's helping mentally.

Jennifer Norman:
Interesting. No, that's a very important point to note. And then on the other side, is there anything that could potentially inhibit performance at all?

Dr. Joel Pash:
Not really. A question we get a lot of times is does it affect sensation? And so if it did affect sensation, then that would be a concern. But actually it does not affect sensation. If anything it would increased sensation mostly because the thing that is filling the space is filling the space.

Jennifer Norman:
You're getting more friction.

Dr. Joel Pash:
Better.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Joel Pash:
So it turns it not from the hot throwing the hot dog down the hallway.

Jennifer Norman:
I can't believe I even remembered somebody saying that.

Dr. Joel Pash:
And I have to think of an analogy. It's like driving a truck down a hallway, right?

Jennifer Norman:
Yes, yes. And you were also mentioning about the financial aspect of this. And like teenagers typically don't have a lot of cash just sitting around. Some do.

Dr. Joel Pash:
And you wouldn't do a teenager, but.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. Unless they have like a parent. I suppose that is endorsing or along with.

Dr. Joel Pash:
I still wouldn't but.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, okay, okay. Fair enough. Yeah.

Dr. Joel Pash:
I mean I've had people ask like I had a dad ask if he could get it for his kid's birthday. I don't want dad...

Jennifer Norman:
You just scarred your kid's self esteem for life. Yeah, yeah. But from a financial standpoint, it's usually somewhere around 8 to $10,000, you said?

Dr. Joel Pash:
Not necessarily. I think the average person spends about seven.

Jennifer Norman:
Okay.

Dr. Joel Pash:
You can get pretty good results for $7,000 if you have. If your penis is on the smaller size, you could get really good results for about $4000. But yeah, most people are about 10 ML of filler. 10-12 milliliters and it's about $600 per milliliter. So.

Jennifer Norman:
Got it.

Dr. Joel Pash:
It's a $7000 kind of thing.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, yeah. So when people are in the peak quote unquote of their sexuality as well as their financial resources and that's typically where you see the bell curve of where people are mostly coming in, but mostly over 30, as you were saying, but can be upward to 80, 85 years old.

Dr. Joel Pash:
Yeah. I mean, it's the same thing how you probably don't buy like a Mercedes when you're 22. Right. If you are buying one, then you can come get your penis enlarged also. But most of the time, people are doing those things in their 30s and 40s.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. Yeah. What do you think is, like the most important piece of advice that you would give to men who are considering penile enhancement treatments but are unsure or hesitant?

Dr. Joel Pash:
Well, one piece of advice that I give everyone, and this is not only when it comes to your penis, but I'm a doctor also. Right. So this is just to... I'm a Dick Doctor, but I'm also an anesthesiologist. And one piece of advice that I think it's important for everyone to know is when you're choosing a medical procedure or a surgery or even just a regular doctor to go to, make sure you do some research on that doctor. Find out if... How much experience they have on the thing that you're doing.

Dr. Joel Pash:
Find out if maybe they have some lawsuits against them or maybe they have some disciplinary actions or something like that. But most importantly, just how much experience do they have if you are going to get your penis injected? Is it someone that it's advertised that they do it on their website and then they've never done one before, or is it someone that's done a thousand of them? That's obviously going to be vastly different.

Dr. Joel Pash:
And I see people mostly on phone calls and text messages that come in that are just looking for the cheapest thing or the thing that's the closest thing they'll be like, do you have something exactly in Oakland, California? Right. And it's like, well, we have something in San Francisco. Yeah, I don't want to drive that that far. I want somebody in Oakland, you know, like something like that. It's... You want to find the best person, not the one closest to you or the cheapest.

Jennifer Norman:
Right. And so Upsize Clinic is specialized in penile enhancement and penile enlargement and these types of injectables. And so you guys have pretty much been the front runners, I think, in the country. And you are opening... How many clinics do you have now?

Dr. Joel Pash:
I think we're around 25.

Jennifer Norman:
Wow. Yeah. 25 around the country and Canada.

Dr. Joel Pash:
We have two in Canada, one in Calgary and one in Toronto.

Jennifer Norman:
So the website is upsizematters.com and there is a very interesting tool on the website where it's almost like a measurement tool so you can see before and after how much you would be actually adding in terms of girth. So it's something that you can look at before you actually go in and get your procedure done so that you can see what kind of results that you could expect. There are also some before and afters as well, so that you can see some real life results of what this looks like.

Jennifer Norman:
And also, just as a parting thought, remember that this is something that should be enjoyable. It's something that should be fun. If you're doing it because you're afraid of what others might think of you, or if you are doing it out of anything that is more like fear based, then you might want to do some other type of work within your mindset and your mental space on your overall perception of self. I think that that is important for any person to know before you're going in and doing any kind of cosmetic procedure. The important thing is that you know that you are whole and enough just as you are.

Jennifer Norman:
And if you're doing something in order to please somebody else or to try to get validation from somebody else, then it might leave you feeling emptier afterwards, as well as your wallet frankly, than before you actually go and do it. And so it's important to do that inner work of self love and self worth and self esteem to know that if you're going to be doing any kind of cosmetic procedure, penile enlargement included, it's because you love your body, you love your penis and you just want to explore something more. You want to have a little bit more fun, you want to have a bit more pleasure, some more joy out of it. And that way you're going to get the most satisfaction and the most. You're just going to get the most out of everything that you're doing in life, no matter what.

Jennifer Norman:
Dr. Joel Pash. His business is Upsize Clinic, and he's got all sorts of social handles. He's on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok and YouTube.

Jennifer Norman:
If you go to @UpsizeClinic you will find all sorts of fun videos and content. And Dr. Joel, I just want to thank you so much for being on The Human Beauty Movement Podcast today. It was really a joy.

Dr. Joel Pash:
Thanks for having me. It was fun.

Jennifer Norman:
Thank you for listening to The Human Beauty Movement Podcast. Be sure to follow, rate and review us wherever you stream podcasts. The Human Beauty Movement is a community based platform that cultivates the beauty of humankind. Check out our workshops, find us on social media and share our inspiration with all the beautiful humans in your life. Learn more at thehumanbeautymovement.com. Thank you so much for being a beautiful human.