Navigating Grief & Parenting with Vickie B

Jennifer Norman:
Welcome to the Human Beauty Movement podcast, your source for hope, healing, happiness and humanity. My name is Jennifer Norman. I'm the founder of the Human Beauty Movement and your host. This podcast is here to guide you on your journey of self, love, empowerment, soul alignment and joy. With each episode, I invite beautiful humans from all corners of the globe to join me for open conversations about their life lessons and the important work that they're doing to help heal humankind. Take a moment now to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode. I'm so glad you're here joining me for today's show. Today's episode is for anyone who's ever found themselves on their knees in the midst of life's storms, questioning identity, purpose, or the sheer strength to keep going.

Jennifer Norman:
If you've ever felt like the safe path just wasn't your path, this conversation is a sanctuary. Our guest today is the remarkable Vickie B. A speaker, storyteller and the unmistakable voice of resilience and real faith. She's not just talking the talk, she's actually lived it. A devoted mother of three, Vickie has weathered soul shaking heartbreak, including the loss of a child and multiple health battles. But through it all, her faith didn't just survive, it transformed. Her journey took her from self reliance to divine surrender. And what she found on the other side was a healing grace that rewrote her life.

Jennifer Norman:
She now stands as a guiding light for women who are starting over, parenting through pain or seeking clarity in chaos. And she does it with radical transparency, truth telling and deep space spiritual wisdom. Vicky is also the proud mother and manager of flourishing young actor Paul-Mikél Williams, adding yet another layer to her dynamic faith fueled life story. In this episode, you'll discover what it means to surrender in a world that tells us to control, how to parent while holding grief and growth at once. And why your most broken moments may hold your most beautiful revelations. So take a deep breath, open your heart and join us for a conversation that just might shift your soul.

Jennifer Norman:
Welcome to the show, Vickie. It's so great to have you here today.

Vickie B:
Thank you. Good morning, Jennifer.

Jennifer Norman:
Good morning. Good morning indeed. I would love to help the audience get to know you a little bit better. Your story is really marked by a lot of loss, but then a lot of healing. So can you take us back to some of your more pivotal moments? So sometimes when maybe your faith was tested and then a transformation that occurred, Tell us about it.

Vickie B:
Wow. So many tests of faith. I grew up in a household of faith and so what's interesting now that you asked me that, I thought back. And I remember when I've never quite shared this, actually, what just came to me just now, I was just thinking about a time when I was watching the Ten Commandments as a child, and I believe it was Abraham who had to sacrifice his son, as it were. I think that was the first time I thought. Now I probably was about. I'm guessing maybe 10 or 11 years old, maybe 10. And I remember thinking, because I'm on the edge of my seat watching this whole series, that's just the household that I grew up in.

Vickie B:
And so I'm like, why would he have him sacrifice his child? Like, is this really about to go down like this? And so as he goes up to the cliff and he's laying his son down, his son is asking, like, he trusts his father so much. And I'm thinking, this can't be happening. And I think that was my first time wondering, like, what in the world? Like, why would God do that? And then in the end, of course, you saw how he had the ram in the bush and he provided. I just remember thinking, like, what a test. But thankfully, he prevailed in the end. It turned out to be a good story. And so when you asked me that question, I immediately thought of my daughter, Anjelia. I've never spoken of this publicly, but before, although I've written it down and a handful of people know, but I've never talked about it.

Vickie B:
But anyway, I thought about that just now because I remember when I went into the labor and delivery and they first made me aware that something was incredibly wrong. I was totally clueless. And looking back, I remember I had met a girl maybe probably like six months before. I was at a little family, extended family gathering, and they were talking about this girl who just lost her child during delivery. The baby didn't make it alive. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I could never go through something like that. That is just. I'd never heard of it before, believe it or not.

Vickie B:
And I was like, that is. Wow. My heart goes out to her. She's really strong. And so when they told me something is horribly wrong, and they were yelling at me, and I'm like, what is the matter? They were asking me, was I on drugs? I'm like, what? Like, I prided myself on never doing drugs. I came up in the scared straight program, so I'm anti drugs. And I was just so offended. I'm like, why would you say that to me? And the doctor told me, I'm trying to find the baby's heartbeat.

Vickie B:
And I. Oh, well, I hear it loud and clear. It's beating like crazy. And then she said, no, that's your heartbeat. I can't find the baby's heartbeat. And then I just was, like, frozen. So one thing led to another, and then they had to come and tell me that my baby was not living anymore, and they were now fighting for my life. Now here I am thinking I thought I was just fine coming to have a baby.

Vickie B:
And so I went through all of the events that took place. I had to deliver the baby. There was nothing. You have to go through the process. And so I wasn't in the moment thinking why or anything. I was just in shock, like, this can't be happening. But the signs that led me to go to the hospital, like, I knew something was going on. I felt like I was in labor, but it was different this time.

Vickie B:
Something was different. And so I just remember my brother being there. And after everything was said and done, I was still kind of out of it because they give you all kind of morphine and different things, which, in my opinion, just makes your brain. You just kind of nod out and you come back and it's. You're there, but you're not there. And so the one thing that stood out to me that I remember was my brother. One of the times I came to out of the morphine, and he just said, you know what? This may sound bad. Me and my brother are very close and direct with one another.

Vickie B:
And forgive me, because I could feel myself looking all around. But I guess I kind of went back to that moment. Like I said, I've never talked about this publicly before, shared like this. But my brother said to me, you know, Vic, I don't know how this is going to sound, but, you know, we're close. I can share this with you. I don't know how this is really going to turn out. But the one thing I know. When you were delivering, at the time, I didn't have the baby's name yet.

Vickie B:
When you delivering her, I was thinking, God, why? What reason could you have for this? And he goes, you know me. I question everything he said. But for the first time, he told me her life was complete and he was teared up. In that moment, I was still kind of in shock and being numb from the drugs. And he just said, if you don't take anything else from this, just know from me, your brother, that no matter how short or long a person's life is, it came with a purpose. And even though she didn't make it here, even if it's just me, she fulfilled her purpose. Because, you know, I question God all the time about everything. That's my brother.

Vickie B:
We used to argue about these types of life things. And he said, but for me, he. And he said her purpose was complete. And he told him, it's not about the time of length of the person's life on the earth. It's what is accomplished. And he said, I don't know, but for me, I've never heard from God like that before, all this time until now. And he said, and I think that although it may be tough for you in the future, these next couple weeks, months, years, but I think her life is going to impact a lot of people, for God and for the kingdom of God. He goes, and I just had to share that with you.

Vickie B:
He said, I'm sorry for what happened, et cetera. And I just was like, okay, I believe you. And then after that, all the rest of the stuff that you got to go through, happening, that carried me through to know that, wow, it's not about for any of us. We don't have a timeline that we know of. Nothing is promised. Our life is a fleeting moment. It's just a vapor here in God's eyes. So to him, it could be a thousand days, and his course is a moment to him.

Vickie B:
But what's a thousand days to us? And so that. When I took that away with me, so that's the. One of the times that was very pivotal for me. And people couldn't understand the space that I was in, how I was dealing with it, why I was so calm. But my brother had kind of whispered that to me, and it went where it was supposed to go. And I just was thanking God and to see my brother, someone who would always argue with me about every little biblical thing. And I was just like, wow, what could I possibly say? And so I began to thank God for even giving me the experience. And.

Vickie B:
And to have this daughter who now have become like this purposeful person in our family and a person who people would begin to change around, because now people are going to start to ask questions. Now they're going to seek God. And my fear was like, oh, I hope people don't run from God. But it didn't work out that way. It became a very beautiful thing in our family. It was difficult for my other kids to understand, but I got to shine and be the example for them of how to stand. And so that. That was a pivotal time for me.

Vickie B:
Total trust in God and Looking back on how did I get here, you start questioning, what did I do? Did I do something wrong? But it caused my life to change completely in the trajectory that I was going in from a place of I've got everything under control, kind of doing what I want to do to. Wait a minute. God let me know, wait a minute. You have a purpose. You're not just willy nilly doing whatever in the earth. And that's a heavy lesson for me, but I really needed it because I definitely want to fulfill my purpose. And that's kind of the message for everyone. You do have a purpose.

Vickie B:
And I'd gotten to a place where I just was like, whatever, I don't know anymore. Just kind of doing my own thing.

Jennifer Norman:
Wow. I want to pause and take a moment to just honor you for sharing that for the first time publicly in this way. And you're right, it is such loss. It's something that could be so devastating. And to be able to see it as your brother did, and then for him to have that impact on you in the way that you were able to reflect upon your experience and look at it as a gift to say thank you to God for this gift of this lesson that no matter how short or long your life is complete, there's no pining or longing for what could have been, what should have been. All of those things that cause us to suffer and to question God and to be angry at the universe and all of those things, it's to recognize this was how it was meant to be. And these were the things that I was meant to take away. And this is how I build this extraordinary strength and this ability to see the light at the end of every darkness from here on out.

Vickie B:
Yes. Yes.

Jennifer Norman:
That is so powerful. Thank you.

Vickie B:
Thank you for allowing me to share that. Thank you for the question. And I learned for myself another thing in that moment besides what my brother initially got. I was so thankful for the fact that I was able to still live because my life was in danger. And I think, I know I just said it made me appreciative, but it also made me appreciate the rest of my family and the power of God. That letting me know that just like when Isaac was about to be sacrificed, that God was the one who was in control. So no matter what you gain in this earth, you have to be appreciative and don't take anything for granted. And I remember walking away thinking, she was too good for us.

Vickie B:
That was my thought. She was too good for us. We're just. I said, willy nilly. That's the word of the day. Willy nilly. But it opened my eyes back up, like, let me take everyone in this precious way. Every person is a gift to me, every human, every experience.

Vickie B:
So life just became that much more precious. And I was ended up fighting for my life, and thank God he spared me to be here and continue to raise my other children. They weren't left motherless. It was very, very scary.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. Yeah. And you gave your daughter the perfect name, I think.

Vickie B:
Yeah, Anjelia. And the funny thing is they misspelled it at the hospital, and then it got misspelled because we had a service. So at the mortuary, it was misspelled again, and they kept putting J. My other two children at the time were Joshua and Julian. And Joshua had always wanted a sister, and so I thought, okay, it's a J. So it's Anjelia with a J. Yeah.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh. Fascinatingly enough, there is. Even as her time in this world was very limited, her impact, I think, is just so profound. Just like an angel, just like somebody watching over you to remind you of the value of life, of the gift of family, of those things that we so often do take for granted. Unless we are faced with something that contrasts so dramatically to cause us to reflect and say, wow, that's where I was. This is what I have.

Vickie B:
Yes, yes.

Jennifer Norman:
Every breath that we take, every time that we can spend with loved ones as annoying and as crazy as things can get, it's like, you know what? I thank the time that I have with you because this is really just very precious. And it is. You never know how long it may be or how short it may be.

Vickie B:
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Like, my world was stopped and. But just long enough for me to get my footing, turn my life around, and kind of be present again. So I'm thankful for that. It was just about, like I said before me grinding out and trying to strive for the different things and making everyone in my space do the same.

Jennifer Norman:
Yes, yes. So, yeah, so say more about that, because when you talk about transformation and something like this and then all of a sudden getting called to a purpose, what would you say was the trajectory before and what do you recognize as your purpose now?

Vickie B:
I think there was just a period after I went through a divorce with my older boy's dad, and I lost. Part of my trajectory was lost even when I got married, because I think I found my. Not that I have any regrets. It's just sometimes you do things because you're just kind of going with the flow of someone else and you don't really speak your full truth. And then when things try to go a different way, then you start trying to then control the other person. Because you never really said, well, this is what I want over here, or this is what I want for my life. Like I said, I took a lot of things for granted and was kind of going down the willy nilly path. And I think it started because when I started working in corporate America, I was looking around at all the other women and I'm like, gosh, these women are working so hard.

Vickie B:
When are they going to get married and have kids? Like, I want kids. And so instead of asking for advice, I just did my own thing, like, oh, gosh. And then I end up getting married and then kind of losing my voice a little bit. And it wasn't the other person's fault, it was my fault. And when I began to kind of speak things, it was kind of like, wait a minute, where's this coming from? And so there began to be battles. And it was kind of like after the fact, I left my first mission, which was to serve the Lord, and I started serving man kind of without really knowing it. And then getting off on the tangent of trying to acquire things. The picket fence.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. I was going to say, what did that look like? But now I get it.

Vickie B:
It went from me on a mission to, oh, I've got. I'm creating this family without thinking. And then, oh, that means the picket fence, the house and the car.

Jennifer Norman:
Check, check, check.

Vickie B:
Yeah. And so then I got angry when I got divorced because I'm like, well, I did everything right. Why? I thought at that time in my life, I thought God would just come down and be like, no, there's no such thing as divorce. Because I believe in divorce. And I thought that gave me a license. I mean, I was so tough. I would say what I want. You know, I would expect you, like, we're married.

Vickie B:
I'm just going to let it out now. I've held it too long. And that was not the right approach either. So I was kind of angry that I went through a divorce because I kept praying, well, just fix him, just change him. Not even realizing that I had a part to play. I thought I was a little holier than thou. And that was so many lessons. I could go on and on about all the lessons that I had to learn.

Vickie B:
And so after that, the whole angry period lasted all the way throughout up until this time with everything that happened with my daughter, because now I have a chip on my shoulder, that I did everything right. You didn't help me. You didn't intervene. And I remember the one thing I heard was because I was like, are you listening to me? The first time I heard God, probably the last time I heard God audibly. And he just called my name. And I'm looking around like, wait, who's that? And I'm like, is that you? And then there was silence. But I heard my name. And he said, what I have done, no man can change.

Vickie B:
I'm like, what? And I'm. Now, that made me reopen my Bible, because I'd like, I'm not reading no more. I'm not. I was rebelling. Like, I'm not reading my Bible. I'll talk to you, but I'm not getting on my knees because that didn't work before all that stuff. But when he said that, that sent me on a mission, like, what does that mean? I never heard that before. Is that in the Bible? And so years later, and looking back now, I can tell you that there's a scripture that talks about taking you in a way that, you know, if not.

Vickie B:
Or that you've never been before. And I was a person that kind of was beginning to think I knew everything. And so slowly, I just began to learn that I do not know everything. I know that sounds crazy to think you know everything, but I'm just telling you back then, I'm like, I've crossed my T's and dotted my eyes, and I've come a long way. And so I think that scripture is Isaiah 42. And that's literally what he begun to do with me. It's almost as if all my prayers in those times of anguish throughout my life, it's like it all came to a culmination. And it boiled down to that moment of, I'm going to show you something that you've never seen before.

Vickie B:
And it was a journey. That was the true beginning of my journey of change. And step by step, all the way to the mortuary, to the cemetery, he would send people every so often, like, every five years would be a person to stop me. And they go, I'm sorry, can I just share this with you? And I'm like, okay. And they would just spill their heart out, crying tears. I'm like, what is going on? That happened, like, three times in my life to let me know. He never spoke to me himself again. Verbally, like, out loud like that.

Vickie B:
And so that's kind of how I've lived my life now. Just one foot in front of the other, you know, have to block out sometimes the judgment of other people. But when God talks to you like that and let you know, I've spared your life, I hear your prayers, I'm answering you, but I need you to listen closely and I'm going to take you a different way. And that's what I had to hold on to.

Jennifer Norman:
Wow. It's interesting how you had grown up, and I feel very much related to you on this front is that learn the Bible, you go down a path, and a lot of it is doctrine, a lot of it is your learning, but it's not the lived experience. And so when life happens, it's easy to veer off. We used to call it backsliding. It's easy to just like, go down a path of rebellion and be like, you know what? This hasn't worked for me. I feel like it's not real. And so when things start feeling more real, then you recognize, oh, wait a minute, this isn't really me. This isn't really how.

Jennifer Norman:
It's a shallower kind of a life. Then God steps and says, let me give you something that you will feel down to your soul. This is an experience that will open you, that'll crack you open and let the real you shine through once and for all. And that doesn't happen for everyone. That happens as a gift, which feels like disaster. It feels like your world is falling apart in the moment, but it is really this time where your whole life opens up before you and you get to. To start again and you get to see it with fresh eyes, you get to live it in a different way. And then you hear those callings, and then you start hearing those words to say, you know what? People are going to start coming to you.

Jennifer Norman:
Because now this vibration that you have, which is so heart opening, which is so understanding, which is so full of love and light, people are going to want to have that too. And they're going to feel solace and comfort in just your presence. Not necessarily even anything that you would necessarily say, but just. Just feeling that motherliness of knowing that you've been through some dramatic loss and that you still have love to give and that you still see the beauty of life in everything that you're going forward and doing. So I see that. I can see that how people would be like, all of a sudden attracted to you and say, wow, this is what happened to me. Can I share it? It's not nearly what you've been going through, or maybe it's something similar, but we can support Each other. We're here to be there for each other.

Vickie B:
Absolutely beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. You mentioned something about being crack and something I just realized in the moment that you said it. I didn't think of this part of it. I lost my mom when I was very, very young. I think that was the first time that I was angry with God. And I've always had a conversation with him about everything because that's how my mom raised me before she passed away, very open with him. And you just reminded me that cracking actually wasn't because of just how I kind of, as you said, veered off and backslid or whatever.

Vickie B:
I never even thought of myself as backslidden at the time, but you just reminded me that I became kind of tough. My mom passed, so that's a huge crack to break or break open. And so I never thought of it like that until now. I've always been aware that I lost my mom at an early age, et cetera. But that's very pivotal even now, because when I talk to people, even people male or female, who've lost their parents, it's almost like I can see I had a glimpse of me as a child before fancy free, riding my little bicycle tricycle around. And you just reminded me of how free I was at that time. So I'm going to revisit that even again after we've finished this broadcast and consider that that might be part of the next step in my journey as well, in helping someone.

Jennifer Norman:
Isn't it fascinating how we learn so much from our parents and our children learn so much from us? Not necessarily about the lectures that we give them, because who wants to listen to that? It's you being you. It's your role modeling and how they see you behaving and reacting in a certain way. And they'll pick up on that and they'll ingest that, and they'll probably incorporate that somehow into who they are and how much they appreciate and admire you for how you're able to get through adverse times, how you react to other people who tick you off, how you respond to the small things. Those small things, they learn a lot. You know, they might model that behavior or they might be like, woo, mom's.

Vickie B:
Having a bad wound.

Jennifer Norman:
A lot of them, yeah. Tell me about parenting. Even if you're grieving or even if you don't feel like your best self, how have you been managing that with three children?

Vickie B:
Now, I'm definitely not perfect, but I made a decision to be very upfront with my children after I lost my daughter because that was very difficult. Breaking the news, especially to my oldest, it was actually devastating. And so at that point, I said, you know what? I'm not going to tell them everything because it's too much, the mistakes I've made. Like, you can't just pour it all on. But I wanted them to know honestly how God was dealing with me in a gentle way, and that you can still go to him and things like that. And so I'm still honest with them. I don't apologize for it at all. I've definitely been judged for that, and I've just prayed that it wouldn't be too much for them.

Vickie B:
But I felt like what I went through, they were right there. My youngest son wasn't born yet, but my other two were right there watching. And I said, you know what? I'm just going to be honest with you, because you've already seen that things still happen to the just and the unjust. You can be a good person. And not having done so, I had to be so real with them. And so we've kind of carried that out. And so I've apologized to them at different times and said, hey, I hope this wasn't too much when you were younger. Do you want to talk about it some more? How do you feel about it? And my kids are so gracious.

Vickie B:
I've had temper tantrums with them because they were kids, and I've had my moments, but just being honest with them and always, always kept them in church. And I remember one time I didn't. My son, my oldest son, Josh, he wanted something. I don't remember what it was, but we moved to South Orange County, California. God's grace. I got a job there. And it was just amazing how he took care of us there. So they thought they were in the lap of luxury.

Vickie B:
Now. To me, it was not the lap of luxury exactly, but it was a lot of wealth around us. So at one point, my son thought. I don't know what he thought, but I was like, hey, kid, at this stage, you're gonna have to start asking God for yourself. Because I literally. It broke my heart, but I was like, I literally don't have. I don't have it. So just that truth right there.

Vickie B:
And I thought, wow, they're kind of young for this. And I wanted to be the hero. I wanted to be the perfect mom. I so wanted that. But I'm like, that's not gonna do them any good to be so perfect. And so it broke my heart, but yet I'm like, you know, they're better off in God's hands. They're better off talking to him because I'm gonna keep messing up and making mistakes. And once I shared that with them, they looked at me and they're like, well, okay.

Vickie B:
And start praying for themselves, asking God for their own things. And we start seeing things manifest. Money on the ground, little things like that. And they were like, it works. And I'm like, see? See, isn't that better than waiting for me? And it just set them free from an early age. So for me it was kind of sacrificial, you know, that was a tough thing for me to swallow because as a mom you want to get all the good feels and be the hero. And I had to kind of go, you know what? You don't want to make those mistakes again. Let God have them, they're his anyway.

Vickie B:
That's the best thing you could tell them. And then let them decide when they want to go to him for something or come to you for something. And it set me free too. Let me off the hook, that is.

Jennifer Norman:
I do want to expand on that because I feel that it's so important for us as women to know how to preserve our own sanity and for us to know when it's like, I just don't have any more to give. I really need this time out. And the fact that you were so honest with your kids about the fact that you needed the break. You weren't able to give your all because you were spent. And it's true when you've gone through a trauma or a loss or there's stress going on, you're not going to be your best self if you don't have that honest conversation and try to pretend through gritted teeth and through lashing out and feeling resentful for having to give more and more, you'd be able to say, you know what, I'm tapped out. And they'll understand and maybe they won't because sometimes that takes a little bit of learning as well. I have seen a lot of parents who do overcompensate when there is a loss of a child or some sort of real health risk or something that happens and they want to protect in a hyper vigilant way the children that they still have. They're worried that something might happen, a shoe will drop.

Jennifer Norman:
And so there is this need to control and this feeling like I need to keep them in this shrink wrapped bubble and prevent them from feeling any hurt or any pain when honestly that's impossible. They still gotta, you know, go through life school. They still gotta go through earth school and feel the pains and feel the failures and fall down and learn on their own. A lot of times the parents will just hyper overextend themselves trying to be that cushion to catch their fall. And what happens is there's an enabling of continuation of that childhood or that infantilism of their children and not letting them grow into adults on their own. And so that is something that I want to bring up in this podcast because it's a powerful lesson. It's something that may sound theoretical at this moment.

Jennifer Norman:
Some of my listeners, you might be going through this right now. This might be exactly what you need to hear, is for you to be able to say it's okay for you to have that meltdown. It's okay for you to take that time out. It's okay for you to be honest with your children and not feel like you have to hide those parts of yourself from them, because then you will have. Have a relationship that is built on the truth of how things are and who you are and what you can handle and what you need help with. And they will learn to be able to have that balance for themselves as well.

Vickie B:
Yeah, you're absolutely 1,000% correct. And I'm still walking out some of that. I have a younger son who came later, and so I have, like, a little gap there in the family. I still, as mom, the other dad was like, oh, I just heard if you buy your fruit already cut up now there's bacteria on it. I'm like, like, wash that off. Like, something I never did before. I'm like, did you wash that? And he's like, what? Like. And he pops one in his mouth.

Vickie B:
I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, did you hear what I just said? He's like, mom, it's a pineapple. I just took it off the container and I just ate it. Why are you trying to control the pineapples? I'm like, there you go. Yeah, still a mom.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. Well, tell me about Paul. Tell me about... Because I know that you are his manager. Some people call it 'momager'.

Vickie B:
Yeah, they like that term. It's a bittersweet term. Momager.

Jennifer Norman:
Sure.

Vickie B:
I like right now. I guess I've kind of embraced it.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, yeah, tell me about. Because I think that a lot of people are enamored by the fact that, oh, child actor, voice actor has been doing so many interesting things. How did this come about? And what was that like for you?

Vickie B:
Yeah, I'll make it quick. And to the point with this, because there's two sides to it. I've had a little bit of a family background in the entertainment industry because of my parents, some of which obviously by my mom passing when I was young and my parents were divorced when she passed, so I got sent to live with her side of the family. So I didn't see my dad. So some of the things I've recaptured when I met back up with my family during ancestry, kind of putting the pieces back together. So I've always had these vague recollections or let's just say when I'm around a celebrity or entertainer or artist, like I catch a vibe and I just want to be in that space. And so I've always been drawn to that, but didn't really remember why. And so my parents worked with entertainers in the African American community.

Vickie B:
A lot of times they weren't allowed to go certain places, didn't matter if you were famous or whatever. So they had to cultivate their own space after the show was over. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Uh huh. That's kind of the history of our plight in this country. And so my parents created a space more so my dad's side, his brother and him, after they got out of the military, they came to California and they brought the jazz from Detroit because I had an uncle who's a jazz musician, which I was a musician at one time. And so they built a safe space.

Vickie B:
So my mother, before she passed away, she kind of taught some of the tricks of the trade to coming into the industry to my cousin. And when I ended up going to live with his mom. And so I lived with him for a while and he traveled the world, he would come back and tell me all of what was going on. And once I started having children and I moved to Philadelphia, then I moved back to California, he goes, oh my gosh, you're in California. Let me show you how this works. And whatever you do, this is a gift. And he literally told me he's passed away now, but he told me how my mom taught him how to get in the business. Like in terms of if you want to act, if you want to be a creator, if you want to do fashion.

Vickie B:
So I knew about the fashion world, that's the whole thing. And I go, well, I'm in California, how could you? Went to New York and traveled the world, Italy, wherever. And he goes, no, no, no, you're in California. So you've got the best of both worlds. Don't let it fall to the wayside. This is a gift. I blew a lot of it off because I didn't know I was the first. And now I'm giving it to you.

Vickie B:
And those babies. He goes, they're gorgeous. And even though they're boys, you need to. Don't let it fall. If it doesn't pan out for them, then fine, do it for yourself. But. But don't let it waste, because it was passed down. And so I put them immediately as babies.

Vickie B:
They were in commercials and print ads and things like that. And then I remember the story he told me. He got casted for the movie Hair. It's a very famous movie.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, yeah, I remember it.

Vickie B:
And he got cast in the play first, and then there was the movie. And guess what? He was a lot older, and his mom was the oldest aunt, and she had taught him, whatever you do in life, don't be the token. Which means, like, don't let them just pick you just because you're black. Or just because you're the only. Whatever.

Jennifer Norman:
And so don't be a DEI hire.

Vickie B:
That was basically it.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah.

Vickie B:
Break it down in modern terms.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, yeah.

Vickie B:
And he told me that was the biggest mistake I made. He goes, and I already know you. You're probably gonna not want to do the alcohol ads. You're not gonna want to do the cigarette ads. You know, my mom passed up cancer, so I was anti everything. And he goes, don't do that. He goes, believe it or not, he goes, if you recall my first billboard, it was a big, big billboard he was on in West Philadelphia, and everybody would ride by. It was like our claim to fame in the family.

Vickie B:
And that led to so many other open doors. He goes, like, mommy didn't want me to do that. It was a Jacquin's or how you pronounce vodka ad. He's like, you know, mommy had a fit, but boy, was she proud. She goes, that's my son. Yeah, so that's our highlight there. And so he goes, but that was the end of that story, because everything else, I was turning them down. I didn't want to be the token.

Vickie B:
So he had told me, me, don't do that. Of course, I went and did it anyway. I was protesting with apartheid, like, no Shell for oil. That was the slogan. So the first one of the biggest commercials my oldest son got was a Shell oil commercial. It was a gas station commercial. I was like, yeah, so that's how it started. But I went through a divorce, and then by the time Paul-Mikél came along, I'm living In south Orange County.

Vickie B:
Totally forgot all of this, that stuff. Living my life now. I'm on a trajectory, trying to bounce back. Dating, went through a thing, lost a child, got another one, and then was like, this ain't going to work, but I'm have this baby. And everyone all along the lane was like, what are you going to do with that kid? What are you going to do with that kid? I'm like, nothing. He's not doing nothing. What are you going to do? I had agents come in. They were trying to sign me, too.

Vickie B:
They're like, we'll take both of you. You're giving Robin Givens right now. And, you know, I was very tiny, and I was like, they're gorgeous. I'm not doing it. Can you imagine Robin G. Which I met her, too, and that was my son. I literally met her in Orange county in the bank. And I was like.

Jennifer Norman:
Not bad.

Vickie B:
And I'm a big one for signs. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna try. And what did I do that for? It turned into something I never saw coming because I didn't know acting. I knew modeling and print work. And finally one of my friends was like, why do you always say, he can't do that? Or, we don't act, we don't do this, duh. If they're asking for it, why don't you just give it a shot? And I was like, can't argue with that. So we gave it a shot, and kind of the rest is history. And I learned to say yes and go with the flow.

Vickie B:
A couple prophets and people came into our lives and spoke things that was far beyond me. I'm like, okay. And I just backed up. And I began to realize with Paul-Mikél, though, again, if you think back to what I was saying about my daughter, the purpose of one's life could be for a moment or it could be for. And I began to go like, wow. And mind you, this was Paul-Mikél's direct sibling. Same father. Remember I told you I was married? Divorced.

Vickie B:
And then I was attempting to do it again, and then, no, what am I doing? I'm going crazy. I'm losing my mind. I don't know what I'm doing. And so his father had never had a child. So the loss of Anjelia was his one and only chance, his first. Yeah. Yeah. And so he gave him this son.

Vickie B:
And so it was like, oh, my gosh. I saw. I'm like, whoa. Look how God. Like, he gave me beauty for ashes through this rambunctious all over the place climbing the wall, son. And that everyone was like, are you gonna try this again? My doctor had me sign a waiver when I went to have Paul-Mikél. Like, are you kidding me? They looked at my history street like, you really want me to take this on?

Jennifer Norman:
What were you thinking?

Vickie B:
And I'm like, I wasn't. I wasn't. I forgot. And so it's just a beautiful, beautiful story. So the one thing I knew about this hyper child was that I'm not gonna give him medication to calm him down. We're gonna see the beauty of what God has, because this is. This child is a gift. All my kids are a gift.

Vickie B:
But it was like, wow, no, Anjelia's gone, but he's here. And he came just like this kid was whooping energy. And I'm like, I'm not gonna bottle this up or try to quiet it down. I'm gonna embrace this and figure out how to make it work. And so it started with hip hop classes and things like that. And then I just start saying yes. Like, I'm not gonna block it.

Jennifer Norman:
Lean into it.

Vickie B:
Lean onto it.

Jennifer Norman:
Don't try to dampen it. Lean into it. Yeah. It's probably so much more fulfilling for him too.

Vickie B:
Yeah. Well, the goal for me to. What kept me is that I saw the bigger picture. He didn't see the bigger picture. He's a kid. He just wants to do whatever he wants to do. And I saw him with a place to speak because he's a love bug child.

Vickie B:
He's very. A bit. He was a bit much for people. They'd be like. But women love to. And he would literally have people crying and in tears, just being himself. He just had so much love, but it could be a lot. And I thought, this is too big. He needs a platform.

Vickie B:
And I was just like. I could see it. I'm like, how do I do that? I didn't put the two and two together until way later. Like, oh, the acting is. That's just to give him. Okay. So all the times that he would want to quit, I try to find ways, like, okay, I don't know, but I just would try to stay. And I tried to quit, too, a couple times.

Vickie B:
And God would bring it back. So I was just honest with him. We prayed every single step of the way. And he'll let you know that to this day. And I didn't let him quit because Paul-Mikél was a very. Like I said, rambunctious and very energetic and kind of charming. I'll put it like he's very, very charming young man. And so he would kind of twist your finger a little bit or twist your arm when he didn't want to do something anymore.

Vickie B:
And so I didn't let him quit that one thing because I knew if honestly something happened to me, I had to pass this on. I had forgotten that whole story until he came along. I'm like, oh, yeah, the gift. He's the one that's gonna carry it. My other son still dabble in the space a little bit. I do too, obviously. But that was that seed my cousin planted. Like, it's for now.

Vickie B:
And what I learned is that as it all comes back to me, you know, God will bring things back to your remembrance and he'll show you in the Bible, like I showed you this before. It's like nothing is like, I don't take anything away, but if you miss it, it can come back around. So when I was out being rebellious and making my mistakes and giving away certain things, it's come back around and this child can grab it. Not that I can't still come back and recoup some things, but it's like it's all his. It's his lane. I'm like, wow. Yeah, that makes sense.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, it does. How do you help the kids stay grounded when they're in Los Angeles, they're in this Hollywood, the world that often will pull up us towards image over substance. Like, what is that like as a parent?

Vickie B:
Just being honest. And when you go through those hard life changes for a lot of people, they really do cling to God or run to the church when you get to that point. And so that's going back to my origins. That's my whole family. We were all brought up that way. And so once I pointed them in that direction and I got that freedom, like, go to God for yourself. You know, don't get me wrong, there's sometimes I'm cracking the whip probably a little too much. I was like, did God tell you that? You know, like.

Vickie B:
Like I was a bit much at times, but that's how I keep the reality from them. I mean, for them and keep them grounded. And then God placed people in their lives that had nothing to do with me, and they just poured into those kids. So when he tells you that he'll never leave you nor forsake you, and he's going to give you beauty for ashes. And if you just allow him to be God and let go, it's the scariest thing in the world, especially with your children. But it was just us, us and them. And when I would try to bring in, like, how they used to have those programs where you can, like, buddy your kid up with a. Like, Big Brothers or something, I think it was called.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah.

Vickie B:
Every time I went to try to do something like that, I didn't have a peace about it. You know, I was naive to, like, predatory type things back then. I didn't get that. I didn't know. And so something would go, no. I was like, oh, it'd just be so much easier if I had a person to just take them for whatever, to the beach. Or like, when I was young, sometimes we just have the uncle sewing. So down the block, get all the kids and jump in the back of the pickup truck on the freeway, go to the beach.

Vickie B:
But those days are over. They were over for me. And so I, looking back, could see people would just talk to my children on their own and be like, oh, excuse me, I hope you don't mind if I share this with your son. Is it okay? And I go, sure. And they would literally say, right the very thing. And pour into, there's always some kind man and man of God who knew the right thing to say. Sometimes just men in the community would reach out to them, and it was just amazing. So I thank God for that.

Vickie B:
He was. And now I still rely on that. And I pray for them. I always pray, send someone on their path and it happens. And my older ones who are out of the home, they call me and tell me, you ain't gonna believe this. This guy came up, Remember when you said, you know, I was, like, tripping, like, wow. So letting go keeps them grounded, and just being honest keeps them grounded. And if you just go, it's not about me not being on the pedestal.

Vickie B:
I look at a lot of other moms and their kids worship them, and I just don't have that in that way. Way. I think they're the kind that watch me. They test out everything I said to see if I'm really telling the truth because I was so real. And then they come back later and go, like, I see them doing the things that. I kind of just put it out there and I kind of let it go. So I kind of get the glory that way. And there's a scripture that says your children will rise up and call you blessed.

Vickie B:
So I just try to keep repeating that and saying that. And then sure enough, it comes back. They come back, back, amazing.

Jennifer Norman:
And now you are working with women who are starting over, parenting through pain. What does that look like, how do you work with women? How do you have a platform with this?

Vickie B:
Well, I've always had this platform all along. God has used me all along the journey and my kids as well to talk to women in shelters, women in single parent groups as well as men. And yeah, yeah, I hope to be an extension of one of those programs out here in LA that's always been on my heart to do that. And now that time may be coming upon me to do that as well. But going and speaking at events and now that I'm officially beginning to share more about my story, I think it's going to be that much more impactful. So right now I've opened the door to do public speaking engagements and also private speaking engagements. So it's always been the truth. Church atmosphere or schools coming to speak to the youth who are just starting out on their journey, getting ready to embark upon college.

Vickie B:
Because I made a lot of mistakes in college too, and so I'm always sharing.

Jennifer Norman:
Haven't we all?

Vickie B:
Yeah. Kind of where it all started, but yeah.

Jennifer Norman:
Well, Vickie B. Everyone, I want to thank you so much for being my esteemed guest today on this show. I am just blown away by your story, by your message and the light that you are shining on, finding those beautiful moments of clarity and of purpose that really do help to define how we show up in the world for the better going forward, despite all the adversities that we have been through. Thank you so much for being a beautiful human.

Vickie B:
Oh, thank you. Thank you. That means so much. My other brother just passed away recently and before he left, he said my only goal was to be a good human. And that's what I want from my kids. If you can be a good human, that's all it is. And so I thank you for your work. I thank you for what you do.

Vickie B:
Bless you and thank you for having me. I'm honored.

Jennifer Norman:
My pleasure.

Jennifer Norman:
Thank you for listening to The Human Beauty Movement Podcast. Be sure to follow rate and review us wherever you stream podcasts. The Human Beauty Movement Movement is a community based platform that cultivates the beauty of humankind. Check out our workshops, find us on social media and share our inspiration with all the beautiful humans in your life. Learn more at thehumanbeautymovement.com. Thank you so much for being a beautiful human.