From Privilege to Purpose - Overcoming Bipolar, Addiction, and Dyslexia with Jonathan Kemp

Jennifer Norman:
Today we are joined by Viscount Rochdale Jonathan Kemp, a man whose journey through privilege, mental health struggles and personal transformation will leave you inspired. Jonathan Kemp is not just an entrepreneur and former law enforcement official. He's also a powerful mental health advocate, using his voice to break the stigma surrounding bipolar disorder, addiction and neurodiversity. His his upcoming memoir, Finding Peace of Mind, An Inspirational Journey Through Bipolar, Depression, Addiction and Dyslexia, uncovers a side of success and privilege often left hidden — the quiet devastation of undiagnosed mental illness. In our conversation, Jonathan shares his personal story of overcoming untreated bipolar disorder and addiction, navigating the pressures of high stress careers, and battling the misconceptions tied to neurodiversity. As someone who once felt trapped in a world of privilege, yet silently struggled, Jonathan offers invaluable insights into resilience, self awareness, and the critical importance of seeking the right help. This episode is for anyone facing hidden struggles or anyone in high stress professions.

Jennifer Norman:
Jonathan's message of hope, healing and mental clarity is a lifeline. His story is more than just a memoir. It's a guide for finding peace within and embracing the journey to mental wellness. Stay tuned to hear Jonathan's wisdom on overcoming personal and professional obstacles and discover practical advice you can use to heal, grow and thrive. So with that, let's welcome to the show Jonathan Kemp. Hi, Jonathan, how are you today?

Jonathan Kemp:
Hi, Jennifer. I'm very well, thank you. And thank you very much for having me. In fact, I think your introduction said it all. So I can just sit back and relax now?

Jennifer Norman:
No, no, no, by all means. There is so much more to tell and we need to hear it straight from the horse's mouth, as they say. And speaking of which, you journeyed through your mental health struggles, and you were navigating privilege and entrepreneurship. This is so inspiring and eye opening. Can you tell us what it was like and what your journey was as you were growing up, as you were going through life - and a life of privilege at that - and then discovering that there was something wrong?

Jonathan Kemp:
Yes, by all means. So, as you say, I was very fortunate by English standards. I had a very privileged upbringing with certain expectations of where I would go to university, what I would do career wise, sit in the House of Lords, various bits and pieces. But I knew within myself that there was something wrong. I'd say probably about the age of six or seven. So it was very early on and I felt I didn't fit into my family. I felt a complete disconnect with them. But equally at school, I knew there was something wrong.

Jennifer Norman:
Can you describe that a bit more?

Jonathan Kemp:
Yeah, I think I remember sitting in the classroom. So, I mean, I was sort of, I don't know, seven, eight, nine. I'd sit in the classrooms and I'd be thinking, well, it's okay if someone's got a broken leg, they know what's wrong. But I know there's something wrong, but you can't see it. And I couldn't explain it either. So this was in the 60s and 70s and even words like mental health, mental well being, were probably 20 years at least away. Probably 30, actually. Neurodiversity, again, I don't think even existed as a word back then.

Jennifer Norman:
No.

Jonathan Kemp:
So, yeah, for me, the reason I pause, I'm just trying to really think. For me, the whole thing was a mystery. It was also uncomfortable as well. And I felt. I just didn't feel part of anything I was doing. If life had stopped, I'd have been quite happy. And that's like in a very, very early age.

Jennifer Norman:
Wow. Wow. Oh, my goodness. And so how did you cope? What was it that you did to find a bit of comfort?

Jonathan Kemp:
So at school, as I say, so I went to a certain section of British society, it's use the word usual casually, but it's quite usual for the children get sent to boarding schools. We call them private schools.

Jennifer Norman:
Right.

Jonathan Kemp:
And you go to one from the age of 7 to 13 and then another one 14 to 18. By the end of the first school, things were getting worse. My parents were being called because I was refusing to study. At one point they were talking about asking me to leave as well. So, yeah, things were not good. But I'd say the thing that was most troublesome was what was actually going on in my head. It was just like a constant battle with myself and it was like just a constant sort of arguing, interference and just negativity about everything. Yeah.

Jonathan Kemp:
My worldview about myself, about why I was studying, about why I was continuing living, was always on the bleak side and that was just natural.

Jennifer Norman:
Did you have siblings?

Jonathan Kemp:
I did. We didn't really have much close contact. We were away at boarding schools, so the only time we met up was during the holidays. And then quite often we'd go and stay with friends, or quite often I went up and stayed with my grandparents or lived up in the Lake District, just south of Scotland.

Jennifer Norman:
I was curious if any of your siblings were also feeling the same ways that you were, or if this was something that you were feeling alone in your family.

Jonathan Kemp:
I think all members of my family had their own challenges. Yeah. I'm sort of very cautious about what I say about other people because I'm quite happy to talk about myself, but I'm much more reserved about talking about others unless they passed away.

Jennifer Norman:
Fair enough, I completely understand.

Jonathan Kemp:
But you asked sort of how I survived and I think when I went to my next school, there were a few things that I did really enjoy doing, although I still had all the problems within my mind and my head and making friends, keeping friends. And I also had quite a volatile temper which would flare up and I'd say something to someone or get involved in a fracas and then be deeply regretful, remorseful afterwards. But I just. I couldn't stop it. And looking back now, this was part of, I think, that mood dysregulation that you have with the bipolar, where you have these sort of very sharp mood swings. But I got very involved in fishing, which is quite a sort of solitary, and I spent a lot of time doing that. It was when skateboarding first came out and we had an American student come over and he had this thing called a skateboard, which I'd never seen before.

Jonathan Kemp:
So I bought one. Yeah. So I spent most of my time either fishing or skateboarding. And then in the last two years, punk rock came out. It was the start of the punk rock movement. Yeah. I was told not to cut my hair, so I cut all my hair off. And at home I had it sort of at one point, half of it was red, half of it was black.

Jonathan Kemp:
I used to put safety pins through my mouth, my nose, my ear. And I'd go to all these punk rock concerts and just the whole atmosphere and the culture and the music and the words, it just really resonated with how I was feeling, that sense of...

Jennifer Norman:
Rebellion, that it was actually okay and acceptable because that was a cultural movement. Punk rock in the UK.

Jonathan Kemp:
Yeah, yeah, it was huge. And now it's quite normal for people stick safety pins almost.

Jennifer Norman:
Anyway, yeah, yeah, I did it the other day. I re-pierced my nose with it.

Jonathan Kemp:
Oh, my gosh. Did you do it yourself?

Jennifer Norman:
I actually. Well, it's funny because my nose piercing had closed up and so I had to re-pierce it myself. Yes, I did it myself.

Jonathan Kemp:
Yeah, I used to do it regularly.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, exactly. Now you're like, ugh. But back then it was cool.

Jonathan Kemp:
And then, yeah, I left school. Most of my friends went to university. I knew there was no way I was going to pass my exams. I got very poor results. I tried doing retakes, still got poor results, but I was aware that I seemed to have the same problem studying I could never. When, like, writing an English essay, I thought, okay, this one's quite good. And then I'd get the results back, and they'd say, no, it's not good. And I had real difficulty remembering things, and I had no idea what the problem was.

Jonathan Kemp:
And I'd say by that time, in fact, long before I'd convinced myself that I was stupid. And also, I didn't need really convincing myself, I knew that there was something seriously wrong with my brain because it was just an effort to function. And as I say, I just had this bleak outlook about everything, which now, looking back with the knowledge that I have, it was just clinical depression combined with bipolar.

Jennifer Norman:
But at a time when there were no answers, there was no such thing as children's therapy. There was no talk, as you were mentioning, about neurodiversity. So much of this was completely unknown. And so people just thought that you were a behavioral issue. They just felt like you were being bad or naughty or rebellious or just that you needed discipline. And there were so many things that I think were just unknown. And eventually, because there had been so many more incidents of this only, have we been able to really dive in and learn about this and become so much more knowledgeable now. But we're talking 40, 50 years ago.

Jennifer Norman:
I mean, this is quite a long time ago. And so, yeah, there was so much that you suffered through. I'm curious, at what point were you able to actually get some answers? How long was it?

Jonathan Kemp:
So in my early 20s, I worked in Australia for a year as a cowboy in the Australian outback. And when I came back, I knew that if I drank or, you know, took any other substances, I would cross a very fine line between being able to control my behavior and not being able to control it. And actually, I viewed it as the line between sanity and insanity. So I think I was 21 or 22, and I stopped drinking, stopped taking any substances. And I thought that was what the issue was.

Jonathan Kemp:
I also attended 12 Step fellowships, so I think the most famous ones are sort of Narcotics Anonymous, Alcoholics Anonymous. And I thought if I went to each one of these fellowships, they're all run by people who have addictions. It's all volunteers. And there's a, what they call a 12 step program. So there are 12 steps that you work through, and they call it a spiritual program. And it's about connecting with a higher power, something greater than you.

Jennifer Norman:
I'm curious if you felt that you were addicted, because I think that you said that there was this fine line between sanity and insanity. Did you drink or use substances in order to cope with your otherwise debilitating condition and feel that you needed to and then all of a sudden it got out of control, or was it a problem where you just, you felt that you needed to go into a fellowship because you couldn't stop drinking or using substances?

Jonathan Kemp:
That is a really, really good question. And the reason for that. So with the drinking, I drank because I wanted to.

Jennifer Norman:
Okay.

Jonathan Kemp:
But if I drank, my general attitude towards life was all or nothing and...

Jennifer Norman:
Okay, yeah, bipolar.

Jonathan Kemp:
And it still is, but I'm much more careful now. And so if I drink, I might as well get drunk. Was no point just drinking for. Okay, got it, whatever. But interestingly enough, I went to some 12 step fellowships. When? Before I left for Australia. And then I came back and actually I just stopped on my own. But the reason I went to the fellowships was because my thinking and my head and what was going on in my brain and my mind was really, really driving me into the ground.

Jonathan Kemp:
And I was hoping, and because I'd listened to other people, other people with addictions, they described quite a lot of what was going on. So I thought, you know, maybe this can help with this aspect of it.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah.

Jonathan Kemp:
But the actual act of stopping I'd done, I guess, having gone originally when I was a bit younger, that was like the spur. And that sort of lodged in my brain that this was something I'd be careful of.

Jennifer Norman:
I see. And so you're saying that the focus on something greater was helpful from a mindset standpoint and also perhaps a socialization too, of having a community there which was supportive. So for other reasons other than the basic addiction, you found that it was beneficial.

Jonathan Kemp:
Yes. And actually you hit one of the main nails on the head was for me one of the greatest benefits was the sort of society element of it, the community element of it. And I made good friends then who I'm still in contact with.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah.

Jonathan Kemp:
Oh my goodness. 40 years later.

Jennifer Norman:
Amazing. That's great.

Jonathan Kemp:
So that was in my 20s. I was working as a police officer in London. I did that for about 12 years and then I left the police in my early 30s. I had this chip on my, as I said, chip on my shoulder about being stupid. So I went to university to... I skipped the first degree and because of my work experience, I did a postgraduate diploma in management studies and then a master's in international finance, trade and shipping. A lot of it was to prove that I wasn't stupid. But also in the back of my mind I'd associated all how I felt with that it was something external that I hadn't done or achieved.

Jonathan Kemp:
So if I did well in my job, maybe that was the answer. If I stopped fighting a fight authority and just went with the flow, maybe that was the answer. If I made lots of money. So I got heavily involved in the stock market when I was in the police and I thought, if I make lots of money, that'll be the answer. And unfortunately it wasn't. And I made lots of money and then lost lots of money. So I was very, very lucky. I came out at a sort of zero point.

Jonathan Kemp:
Yeah. And then I thought if I go to university, maybe that's the problem. But I mean, I worked my socks off for two years and by the end of it my mental state was worse than when I started and I was completely fried.

Jennifer Norman:
Wow. At that point you've followed these paths, really trying to find answers to the symptoms of what I think the not really necessarily understanding the true underlying condition.

Jonathan Kemp:
Correct.

Jennifer Norman:
Aside from the 12 step programs, did you seek any other kind of therapy or whatnot? Or were you really kind of doing this by yourself? There was really no Google, there was no self help online or anything like that at that time.

Jonathan Kemp:
Exactly. So I was trying other things like other self help programs. I got involved with a sort of American self help guru for a bit, but it was always (in air quotes). Yeah, very much. And it was always... I was frantically searching for a solution, tried radical diets. I lost a quarter, no a fifth of my body weight in about six weeks on one of my diets where I went completely vegan and at the same time started a rigorous sort of exercise regime.

Jonathan Kemp:
I mean, I was willing to do anything to try and solve what was going on in my brain. But by that time, I mean, I was aware of therapists and I was aware of psychiatrists and in my head, and it was reinforced by some of the people I sort of hung out with. It was a admission of defeat and an admission of weakness to see a therapist.

Jennifer Norman:
Wow. Yeah.

Jonathan Kemp:
And to see a psychiatrist was even worse, because that meant, I used the slang, "nutter" or "a nutcase". And there was no way I was going to do either of that. So I was trying to solve it through, you know, sheer willpower most of the time.

Jennifer Norman:
So because you didn't see a psychiatrist or a therapist, you weren't able to even think about getting like medication, like a prescription or anything like that for it. It was all just you really battling it with yourself. In any way, shape or form that you could find out otherwise.

Jonathan Kemp:
Correct. So, I mean, for me, in order of sort of personal disaster and failure, seeing a psychiatrist was number one. That was some weird thing that had come over from America, probably California.

Jennifer Norman:
That's all my fault.

Jonathan Kemp:
All your fault. Psychiatrists were then probably next on the sort of no, no list. The next thing on the no, no, no list was medication. No way in a million years was I going to take pills.

Jennifer Norman:
Yep. All of that was so vilified, all three of those things. It was just so stigmatized. It's almost like you'd only do those things if you really needed to be institutionalized, as you were saying.

Jonathan Kemp:
Correct.

Jennifer Norman:
Thought of as a "nutter". Wow. Yeah. I was curious, what kind of support, if any, did your family provide, or were they kind of weighing into this feeling of stigma that it was almost like something that you just didn't talk about, something that they felt was not appropriate for your place in privilege or in your family?

Jonathan Kemp:
I just didn't talk about it.

Jennifer Norman:
Okay.

Jonathan Kemp:
So with my family, had a strange sort of relationship in that I talked about nothing personal at all with any of my family. Anything to do with myself or what I was doing or what was happening. Feelings I didn't talk about at all. No.

Jennifer Norman:
Do you feel that that was common in English culture at that time to be more pleasantries and kind of keeping up appearances, even in a family unit? Or did you feel that that was something that was really just. You didn't want to talk about it because you felt like you needed to deal with it on your own?

Jonathan Kemp:
I think within certain sections of English culture, across the board, you know, whether one came from a privileged background or a less privileged background, there is an English culture back then of, suck it up. Yeah, pull your socks up, be a man, get your shit together, come on.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah.

Jonathan Kemp:
And particularly, I mean, I'd been in the police for 12 years and there was no way 8 million months of Sundays I was going to tell anyone that I was struggling. And to be honest, up to my mid-30s, yeah. Absolutely no way.

Jennifer Norman:
So was there a turning point or was it gradual, that ultimately you were able to find that you had a release or something that might have been able to help?

Jonathan Kemp:
So basically, each - and now I understand that what I'm about to describe is a bipolar crash - but each time that my brain sort of imploded, I had to be brought to a point to change. But the point to change was I was so desperate, I tried everything else and basically I was at a fork in the road. Either I call it a day or I do something and I would have to be driven to that point. I mean, I was in a really, really bad way. And sometimes I was in my late 30s and at some point, I can't remember if it was before or afterwards, but I'd arranged to meet a friend in London and I was late. And actually I was late for everything. And again, I think that's part of.

Jonathan Kemp:
And sometimes I was in my late 30s and at some point, I can't remember if it was before or afterwards, but I'd arranged to meet a friend in London and I was late. And actually I was late for everything. And again, I think that's part of, it was an unconscious way of dealing with the mental health. Because if I was late, it would pump adrenaline and if I pumped adrenaline when I'd meet someone, I'd be sort of, you know, reasonably compass mentors. But I was late, I mean, running around all over the place. Anyway, I was late again and they got a bit fed up with me and they sort of made a comment turned off, turned around, and then sort of walked off upstairs and they crossed over the road and I just. Something flicked in my brain and I just this enormous sort of wave of anger and. But I would never tell anyone. So I got up onto the main road, it was early evening, and I walked in front of a taxi. Not that I particularly wanted to end it, but I was just so angry that I wanted to fight with something.

Jonathan Kemp:
And I know it makes no logical sense. And I just walked out in front of this taxi. I walked out in front of a bus. Sorry, small details. And then I walked in front of a taxi. And then I walked in front of another taxi. So they all stopped. And the last one said, are you mad? You're trying to kill yourself? And then I got to the other side of the road and the person I was with hadn't seen anything.

Jonathan Kemp:
We sat down in a restaurant and I was sitting there and I was thinking, this is mad. I could be dead. And now I'm having this sort of normal conversation and I told this story to some friends and I said, yeah, I knew they were going to stop. And they said, well, how did you know that? They said, you need to get help. And so it was around that time that I saw a therapist who diagnosed me with clinical depression. And I said, no, I haven't got depression, because I'd never known anything different. So I didn't know what depression was. I saw another therapist who said exactly the same thing.

Jonathan Kemp:
And then after a year of seeing that therapist and had another bad episode, another crash, I eventually agreed to see a psychiatrist. And then it took another year of them persuading me before I took medication. Okay, So I was dragged. I was dragged to the table, as it were.

Jennifer Norman:
And I don't know if the concept of bipolar was really even familiar or if that was something that was around at that time. So it might have been just, I think depression probably as a diagnosis preceded bipolar and having like these manic depressive episodes, perhaps. I don't know.

Jonathan Kemp:
Yeah, no, you're right. I mean, I'd heard of depression and. But again, my view was pull your socks up and just stop moaning and get on with it.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Kemp:
But actually with. If you do have depression, there's a difference between feeling down, feeling stressed and.

Jennifer Norman:
Being depressed, clinically seriously depressed to the point of. Yeah. Wanting to end it all.

Jonathan Kemp:
Yeah. And that's. If you have depression, it's as real an illness as having diabetes or low blood pressure. You can't do anything about it. And it has sort of character traits, one of which is you have this sort of. You see everything through a very gray, gloomy prism, and it's just the way that your brain sees everything naturally and you can't just snap out of it. Getting out of bed is an enormous struggle. Doing anything, walking from one side of the room to the other is a struggle.

Jonathan Kemp:
But in terms of bipolar, you're quite right. I think I might have heard of manic depression, but I certainly hadn't heard of bipolar. And when I was diagnosed with bipolar, I hadn't a clue what they were talking about. So they gave me a. Again, these things have disappeared, but a VHS tape. So I went along, plopped it into the television. Yeah. And in fact, it was only 20 years later, during COVID that I started to really, really understand what bipolar was.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. And you were diagnosed late with dyslexia as well.

Jonathan Kemp:
So when I did my master's degree, I had no idea I had dyslexia, no idea at all. But I was aware that with the studying, I had to do something radically different to what I did before. So I developed, I used an information mapping technique that I read about, and then I carried on developing it and developing it in something I now call Smart Wisdom, which then eventually became my business. So I knew I had to do something radically different in terms of learning. And this note taking technique enabled me to focus, concentrate, listen. And these are all things that are really difficult if mental health isn't good. It's also really difficult if you happen to be dyslexic as well. So that helps me enormously.

Jonathan Kemp:
And I was also aware that, I can't remember if I've said this, that if somebody spent four hours learning something, I knew that it would take me somewhere between six to eight hours, so time and a half to double time. I had no idea why, and I found it really irritating that this was the case, but that was it. And it was only when I started working for myself, so my early 40s, that after a couple of years, a few colleagues said to me, do you think you might be dyslexic? And I said, well, why? And they said, well, because the way you speak, sometimes you mix things up, you forget things, the way you write, sometimes you jumble words up. I thought about it. Yeah, maybe I was doing a scientific test or having a scientific test done on Smart Wisdom to see if it helped people with dyslexia. And at that point, I was age 48, I think I went to get tested and they said, yes, you've got dyslexia.

Jennifer Norman:
Isn't that interesting?

Jonathan Kemp:
Well, you have dyslexia.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. Wow. So you were dragged, quote, unquote, dragged through therapy. Psychiatry ultimately found medication. Did that medication help, or did you have to go through a process of trial and error?

Jonathan Kemp:
Again, you've hit the nail on the head. So with mental health medication, it is unfortunately a matter of a little bit of matter of trial and error. So the psychiatrists know, in broad terms, what are the drugs that help with mood stabilization? What are the drugs that help you get off that depressive floor and for your mind and your mood to reach a reasonable equilibrium? So they know what the drugs are. Unfortunately, what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for the others. So a mood stabilizer, which you need if you've got bipolar and an antidepressant, might work for 99% of people with bipolar, but there'll be that 1% who it doesn't work for. So it's very much, unfortunately, a bit of trial and error. Having said that, I was really lucky. So I was first prescribed an antidepressant.

Jonathan Kemp:
And I had some of the usual side effects of being tired the whole time, loss of libido, feeling nauseous at times. But I'd say after about six to eight weeks, my mind started to clear and I thought, oh, my God, I have been depressed. But because I didn't know anything different, it wasn't until I had the correct medication to clear to get my brain working at a sort of gentle equilibrium. It was only then that I appreciated what a sort of working brain might feel like.

Jennifer Norman:
Wow, that must have been, like, very eye opening to you. Indeed.

Jonathan Kemp:
A complete eye opener. Yeah.

Jennifer Norman:
And was it able to help with the manic episodes as well? Or did you have to experiment a little bit after that?

Jonathan Kemp:
So one of the features of bipolar in the diagnosis stage, it often takes about seven to eight years before someone is from first seeing a psychiatrist or a doctor before bipolar is diagnosed. So people will usually go because of the depressive dips, and then they'll be prescribed antidepressants. But if that's all you're prescribed, what will then happen is that has the potential to trigger the hypomania or the mania. And I was lucky. I reached another fork in the road and I knew that whatever I was doing wasn't going to cut it. And so I actually got out alone and booked myself into a psychiatric unit in the US And I was there for four weeks. And it was on the second day they diagnosed me with bipolar. And so then I was given this mood stabilizer.

Jonathan Kemp:
And that had less side effects actually compared with the antidepressant. But what it, once it kicked in, how I describe gave me a bit more power to not run away with or not allow my brain to sort of run away with itself, and also gave me a bit more power to stop the dips.

Jennifer Norman:
Okay.

Jonathan Kemp:
And so that was again, incredibly helpful. Over the years, though, I had episodes where, which despite the medication, they still occurred. And actually in the last 10 years leading up to COVID, I think the medication had become less and less useful. So during COVID again, now looking back, I was severely depressed most of the time, and I had three or more bipolar highs and crashes.

Jennifer Norman:
I have heard that there might be a need to increase dosages or even to switch, because sometimes it's almost like your body becomes used to it and then you almost develop...

Jonathan Kemp:
Yeah, absolutely.

Jennifer Norman:
I won't say immunity, because that's not really the right word, but your body gets used to it and so you need to get onto something else and then you might need to start try something else. I've heard of others that have gone through a lot of those cycles of trying to just figure out how long they can be on one and then switch over to another and then deal with the inevitable lag time between the kicking in of the new one and. And then continuing to have this issue. So, yeah, I definitely empathize so tremendously with all of that. I mean, in a matter of terms, it's so brave of you to, number one, come onto these shows as. As you are and being so open with your private issues and what was at one point so difficult to even relate to family members, to anybody at all, what you were suffering with privately and now you're able to share your story with bravery and courage. And so many people are going to be hearing your story and knowing that they don't have to suffer alone, they don't have to go through this and feel victimized or feel ostracized or feel that they need to tough it out because there is no shame in seeking help. There is such wonder and joy that can happen when you do get your chemistry in balance.

Jennifer Norman:
And I remember the first time that I was diagnosed with clinical depression, and this was 20 odd years ago. And the doctor said it's really like if you have a headache, take an aspirin or take a Tylenol. It's really no different. There's nothing wrong with taking a medicine if it's going to help you feel better. And then you can do other things. If you want to get off of it then, but, but get to a place where it's not so bad, it's not so critical that you're going to walk in front of a bus, that you're going to walk in front of a taxi and not care about it. That's pretty serious. At the, at the time you probably think, oh, it's no big deal, but it actually is. It's a huge, it's a huge red flag.

Jennifer Norman:
And we want everybody to be safe and well and cared for. And because you've got so much to offer and you've got so much love and light that can otherwise, you know, so many talents to bring forth and we don't want people silently suffering. That is really what this episode and so many others that I have of, you know, about trauma and healing and recovery and addictions and neurodiversity is all about, is just understanding that everybody goes through something and we can all learn and grow and be there for each other. And now that you've written a book, you've got a memoir that is about to come out. Can you tell us a little bit about the nature of it? I'm sure you go through your personal experience here, but in terms of looking at the road of recovery and some of the things on the bright side that you've been able to see as you're going through this journey of healing, can you share a bit of that with us?

Jonathan Kemp:
Yes, by all means. So actually for me, COVID was an enormous learning curve, which might seem a bit strange because at that point I'd been diagnosed 20 years previously with the mental health issues and 10 years previously with the neurodiversity. But being on my own not around people I found really tough. And that was a big surprise because I always had this thing in my brain of, oh, sod it, I'm going to go and live in a Scottish island in a cave somewhere and just never speak to another human being.

Jennifer Norman:
Amen.

Jonathan Kemp:
Amen to that. Yeah, exactly. And I now realize that'd be the worst thing in the world.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah.

Jonathan Kemp:
So I reached another really, I mean, probably one of the lowest points ever. This was a. And I think it was 2022. And again, I'd reached that fork in the road and the turn on the left was looking frighteningly more attractive than the turn on the right. And so what I did was I'd started writing the book and I'd started a chapter on, I call it an emergency action plan. So what to do, the proverbial hits the fan and one of the effects of a bipolar crash is that quite literally my brain stops working. I can't remember anything sort of previously that might have helped. And in fact all the things that did help no longer have any impact whatsoever.

Jonathan Kemp:
But I did remember I'd written, started to write this chapter, but I couldn't remember what was in it. So I went back to it. And number one was to keep an open mind and be willing. Number two was to go and see a medical professional. And number three is to do what I was told. Yeah, I remember when I wrote it, I winced because it's doing all the things that I don't want to do. But I did it. And within about three days, I think because of the severity of what I was describing, I was contacted by a psychiatrist.

Jonathan Kemp:
They recommended I change meds exactly as you describe. I really didn't want to, but I sort of promised myself that I would be open minded and willing and do what I was asked to do. I must admit I had this, this time round I had quite a tough time switching drugs. And it wasn't until the sort of mixture was right about August that after about six weeks of a second drug, I was walking along the street and it was just weird. It wasn't an effort to think, it wasn't an effort to breathe, to live. You know, I could just enjoy the wind on my arms, you know, the sun on my face. Just looking at the beauty of the trees, the buildings. It all sounds a bit woo woo, but to me it was just like a complete miracle.

Jonathan Kemp:
And it wasn't an effort. That was the greatest of the miracle. And so I decided that actually over my, the period of my life that probably my greatest wealth was My knowledge and experience of mental health, refusing to get help, trying to do it myself, and then eventually getting help and following advice, sometimes more than others. So I decided that actually I think it's partly in my family DNA. So my grandparents, my great grandparents, there's always been this ethos or there's been a strong ethos of doing things for other people. And I decided that actually I was going to write now I had mental stability, I was going to write a book about my experiences and success for me would be doing what I'm doing with you, which is just doing my best to put my knowledge and experience in the public sphere to benefit others.

Jennifer Norman:
Exactly. Oh, that is so beautiful. And now not only that, but you've developed Smart Wisdom. I want to give you the opportunity to talk a little bit about what this amazing, amazing feature is that you've developed. It took you about 20 years to even develop it, even done a TED Talk on it. And so I'd love for you to share what it is and how it helps.

Jonathan Kemp:
Sure. So in terms of the book, just one clarification. So there's sort of three parts to the book. It's one, the first part is my memoir and it's. And I was ruthlessly careful about not making, making sure there was no self pity, no resentment because I wanted it to be inspirational and as you say, uplifting.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah.

Jonathan Kemp:
The second part is my knowledge and experience of, for me, what works in terms of managing my mental health and my neurodiversity and a lot of that, those things that I continue to on a day to day basis. And then the last section is references. So the book is actually going to come out on the 10th of October this year, but for the first year all profits will go to mental health charities.

Jennifer Norman:
Beautiful.

Jonathan Kemp:
Which then frees me to talk about it and not worry that people will think, oh, he's only doing it to make money, because I'm not. And then with Smart Wisdom, I'm sort of going to doing something similar. So Smart Wisdom, how it works, it's really, really simple. There's a website, smartwisdom.com and essentially what you do, instead of writing things down verbatim, you capture the keywords and the key detail. You miss out all the interconnecting words and then you connect them together and it's that process of identifying the keywords and the key detail, isolating them into single words and connecting them all together drives up the understanding. And so it's very, very powerful when you're, you're using it for business, in meetings or when you're interviewing people or coaching. And it's very, very powerful if you're studying, could be a master's degree or a degree or at school when you are sitting in classes or lectures to get a really good understanding. And I've had two scientific tests done or studies done, both published in peer reviewed journals.

Jonathan Kemp:
And what they found is apart from these huge increases in listening and focus concentration, there's actually a 20% increase in real time understanding new information, which is huge. And another plan that I decided. So there were two things I decided at the end of COVID once my mental health was in much better shape. One was about writing the book on mental health and then doing my best to put that knowledge in the public sphere. Second thing I decided was at some point I was going to give Smart Wisdom away for free. So I'll put it in as many public places as I can again for the benefit of others. And when I was writing the book, I thought, thought, you know what? Because it's such an integral part of my story again, I didn't want people to think, ah, he's just talking about this because there's like this onward sale. So I thought I'm going to start giving away Smart Wisdom free for anyone who buys the book.

Jonathan Kemp:
So there's a code in there, you can access the online course for free. And the reason I've done that is because I know that if you have mental health issues, focusing, listening, concentration, it's really tough. And Smart Wisdom makes an incredible difference. And same with if you have neurodiversity, exactly the same things. The focus, the concentration, listening and memory retention are really tough because my objective is, and what makes me tick is helping other people. That's why I'm giving it away.

Jennifer Norman:
Amazing. So what is the user interface like? Is it recording information as it's being presented and then it feeds back into the app? What the, like a summarization is or how does it actually work? Oh, for those of you who are just on audio, Jonathan is showing a diagram which, yeah, it's a very elaborate diagram, let's just put it that way.

Jonathan Kemp:
So that was my preparation for your podcast.

Jennifer Norman:
And that's it. Thank you.

Jonathan Kemp:
So for example, one of the ways that I use it is if I'm doing a blog. So when I first started blogging, this was about two years ago, it would literally take me a weekend to write one 600 word blog. And now what I do is that I use Smart Wisdom, which enables me to capture my thinking really quickly. And because I can see the structure and how my thinking's structured, I then type it up. So it takes me about 15 minutes to capture my thinking. I can then see how everything fits together. I then type it up as if I'm talking to you. I then give it to my friend ChatGPT, and I have bit of a love affair with my friend ChatGPT.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh yes.

Jonathan Kemp:
Because for someone who's neurodiverse, it is a miracle.

Jennifer Norman:
Yes.

Jonathan Kemp:
So I give it to ChatGPT and I say, can you just give it a copy edit? But in my own voice, my style, my language. And now from start to finish, plus the picture, I'll get a blog out in probably less than an hour. So that's one of the ways I use Smile Wisdom, but another way that I use it, I use it like all my meetings. And because the how it increases your understanding as you're listening to someone, I can go back to a set of Smart Wisdom notes from a year ago and be back up to speed literally in about five to 10 seconds.

Jennifer Norman:
Can you describe how Smart Wisdom either interfaces or is different from ChatGPT because ChatGPT, you can obviously like listen, can record and then summarize and do various things. So what would be the way to either integrate or use Smart Wisdom on its own?

Jonathan Kemp:
Yeah, so that is a really good question you asked. And funny enough, that's the question that a lot of corporate clients ask me. Yeah, and the difference is ChatGPT will produce something at the end of a meeting, so by that time, you know the decisions will have been made, you'll have asked any questions you want to ask. But if you're relying on ChatGPT, you won't actually have that information until the meeting finishes. And all the key things happen in the meeting itself. So where Smart Wisdom helps, it helps you to increase your real time understanding during the meeting. So while things are being said and it helps you spot questions, it helps you to spot sort of problems and risks and helps you really piece together everything's being said in real time. Whereas everyone else is waiting until afterwards when ChatGPT will be producing some notes which they may or may not read.

Jonathan Kemp:
The other thing is that it helps to maximize your time because again, if you're waiting till after the meeting to get the ChatGPT, you've then got to go through ChatGPT to just see what there is and what you have to do. Whereas if you do it all in the meeting and you know when you leave that meeting, you've covered all the questions you spotted all the problems, you, you know what all the actions are. Your ahead of anybody who's just relying on ChatGPT. So the key is to know where and when to use them both. But in synergy, does that make sense?

Jennifer Norman:
It absolutely does. So is Smart Wisdom recording in real time, like what is being said in a meeting and then it's kicking back out a summarization and key points or questions and things like that as you're going along to help navigate the meeting?

Jonathan Kemp:
Yeah, so. So it's not software based, it's like another form of note taking. So instead of writing lines or bullets, instead of doing that, you are putting everything into like a spider web of information, a sort of a hierarchical tree of information. So all your chapters around the center, your paragraphs are the next layer out and your subparagraphs next layer out and then the detail. But in order to break the information into this format and connect it all together, you do it in real time as you're listening to someone. And interestingly, it gives you more time to then watch what other people are doing because you'll be writing about 50% less than other people who are taking notes because the other people are recording everything.

Jennifer Norman:
Oh, fascinating. Okay. And you said that people can learn more about it on smartwisdom.com is that the website?

Jonathan Kemp:
Yes. So if anybody wants to learn it and they're interested in mental health, mental well being, neurodiversity, if they buy the book, which will be out in say on the 10th of October, there is towards the back of the book there's a small chapter on Smart Wisdom, but just talking about the course and there is a passcode in there which enables anyone to access the course for free.

Jennifer Norman:
Wonderful. Well, beautiful humans. This is Jonathan Kemp. His book is called Finding Peace of mind coming out October 10, 2025. Do look up the book, you can pre order it on Amazon and then look up smart Wisdom where you can get a free opportunity to utilize this wonderful note taking app for whether or not you're neurodivergent or not. I think that it's something that could be highly beneficial to integrate into your personal or professional life. Jonathan, I want to thank you so very much for taking your time to spend with us and share your story, share all this wonderful information with people on how they too can perhaps identify symptoms and signs of mental health disorders, particularly with respect to dyslexia or bipolar or addictions, things like that. And then also how they too might be able to follow a path in order to gain healing and recovery.

Jennifer Norman:
It's been very, very special and I feel that this was such an honor. So thank you.

Jonathan Kemp:
Well, thank you very much for having me, Jennifer. I really appreciate it.

Jennifer Norman:
Thank you for listening to The Human Beauty Movement podcast. Be sure to follow, rate and review us wherever you stream podcasts. The Human Beauty Movement is a community based platform that cultivates the beauty of humankind. Check out our workshops, find us on social media and share our inspiration with all the beautiful humans in your life. Learn more at thehumanbeautymovement.com. Thank you so much for being a beautiful human.