Episode 47: Greg Hemmings - Using Film As A Force For Good

0:07 Hello, beautiful humans. Welcome to another episode of Role Models juicy conversations with beautiful humans. I'm Jennifer Norman founder of the human Beauty movement and your host, this podcast thrives on your support. So if you like what you hear, follow us radis, review us and share this episode with everyone, you know, across your network. So if you are like me at one time or another, you've been blown away by By the power of a really good film or video, the storytelling, the cinematography, the music, how it all, just comes together to touch our emotions, entertain us, and open our eyes to a new subject matter. My guest today is filmmaker Greg Hemmings Greg, is the founder and executive producer of Hemmings house pictures, an award-winning production company that uses film as a way to create social, change Greg's mission is to make a world, a better place, one story at a time, and he's Here to tell us about his work.

1:02 Welcome, Greg, or thank you so much for the invite Everett's. It's a pleasure to be here today. I'm delighted to have you. So you have to tell us how did you first become interested in filmmaking? Well, that goes way back. So I'm almost 46 years old right now. So let's go back to. When I was 16 years old, I can't do the math. Well, 30 years ago, let's go back 30 years, and I was in high school and I played drums in a band and like most young ads in a band at that age, they figured they're Whole life ahead of them is going to be playing in a rock band and touring the world that didn't pan out for me, my new. But that was my, you know, the angle of everything I did was want to be in rock and roll. Now, as a result of being in the media studies class in high school, this is way long before digital video editing was there, but we had a little TV kind of set up a little Studio set up at the high school and I'm a music video for My Band and still have it on my face. It's really bad, it's awful but it was a you know, we would get all these different VHS tapes and you know One of the gather he made this little music video and I play drums. And that was my instrument of the time and I found rhythmically as a drummer, I really found editing pictures together to music very easy came, very natural for me. I was like, hey, this is really kind of fun. Maybe I should do a few more of these type of videos and, you know, through the rest of my high school time. I was just editing as much as I could and always to music, you know, because music was my number one love and right after high school, I just went to an arts program at the University of New Brunswick.

2:29 Brunswick and Saint John New Brunswick and it wasn't really what I thought University was going to be. It was nothing hands on, you know. So I ended up finding a film school in Ontario after a year of University and it was more of a community college scenario, but it was a very tactile like we shot on film, we cut with film again, this pre-digital and I fell in love with the art of filmmaking at film school. I thought it's going to be a musician. I ended up falling in love with the form of film. And like I say it's just there's something powerful about bringing images together. With Sound and Music and does the very beginning of a very long story, which I'm happy to share any other parts of it as well. But that's where I got my start. Yeah, it sounds like Charming was the Catalyst for opening up the door for that other creative outlet.

3:13 And it's I kind of call it like falling forward when you're younger experimenting with a lot of things and it usually leads to another door opening and it becomes your passion. You're like yeah this is something that I can get into. Yeah yeah. And so you started with editing and then, you know, No, getting into music production or music video, should I say production? And then how is it that you started getting into other types of filmmaking? Yeah, well, actor film school. I ended up joining the union, like it's called eye at Sea. So it's the camera operators, union, that would be all throughout North America. And I started working on Hollywood film sets. You know, you hear all about this movie Magic thing, you know, that, you know, behind the screen.

3:56 There's a lot of moving pieces to make a film happen and sometimes you be honest. A hundred other people, maybe 200 other people. Like these are Big moving machines and so I worked in that world for a while. You know, slowly climbing the ladder through the through the union training program and that it didn't take long for me to realize that this was not an industry for me. It was, you know, typically 15 to 18 hour days, you know, for if you're working in the camera Department it was like big big days. There was a culture of, I called Shame based learning where a lot of public shaming. If you're very low on the totem pole, there wasn't a lot of respect. I saw the setup for set after set. I was like I'm a creative person. I don't want to do this anymore, if it's going to be sucking the creativity out of me, you know, working in an environment, it's not fun when you're not being respected or, you know, I grew up very fortunate not to really experience bullying as a kid but to experience bullying as an adult for the first time in a career that you're thinking about to jump into for us. Your life was very disheartening. So I quit and quitting was really trippy because I just did you know four years of post-secondary education to get into this work in the business for two years. And realize, I just thought I couldn't hack it. I didn't want to hack it.

5:03 You know, I was like, this is not what I thought it was going to be. So I left it for a little bit. Found myself in the Caribbean on a working car, go sailboat. And I went down to the Caribbean for a few years and found myself. And I realized that I haven't lost my love for capturing Adventures on camera and editing together. I was like, I don't need to work in the big film industry. I'm big sets to actually make an impact, so I decided to start my own business and I started by filming music festivals and again, more music videos. Videos, but like probably thousand hours of live music in the first few years of my business. And for me it was great because as a musician seeing all my favorite bands and and multicam, edits and all this sort of thing. And I had enough work going on, I could start hiring people and then you know before we knew it we were a business with employees and then we started doing TV commercials and corporate documentaries.

5:51 And then we got our first TV series. I travel series exploring the world's most expensive luxury items of all things. And then we got another TV series but And then another one about anime, and then a whole bunch of different TV series later, and documentaries brings us to where we are today. Where were, you know, producing a feature film coming up or international market. We've got a number of scripted and unscripted TV series in the pipe. Doing a ton of commercial work, really trying to work with companies in the not specifically the B Corp World. We love working with our beak, our family of companies, but we really want to work with companies that have the heart of a b Corp that are really trying to use the businesses as a Force for good. We want to help Them, tell their effective story.

6:31 So we're all over the place if it's got to do with telling a story with film that's where we're spending our time. Amazing, I'm so shortest version of My Story Ever Told I've never said it, that short. So well I'm good. Thank you guys it down a little bit further because eight now I think that there's a really valuable lesson here. And that is that, you know, when you're young and you're figuring things out, a lot of times, there is hazing you get into these situations and you realize that it's not a friendly environment and it's not healthy for you. Really feel like you can flourish in it and being able to recognize that early on is a good thing. There are people that can come in and make change and adapt in that kind of environment and that's okay. And that's wonderful too but for people especially today I think that more and more people are recognizing that.

7:16 It doesn't have to be that way and so it could have been the best gift for you, you know, realizing that there was this, you know, conflict or this situation that you just weren't finding yourself, happy, that you recognize that you got out of it, you were able to do a bit of soul-searching. And find yourself and really understand you know get to the root of what your passion was in what you really love and then look what happens. You are able to plant a seed, start a business and grow from there and continue doing what you love and generating that goodness and putting out that positivity in such a great way through the types of films and the type of work that you're doing and the people and the stakeholders that are associating with. So, I think that that's a really wonderful story unto itself. Well, thank you for compressing it even more like that was you nailed it. Now, I would love to talk a little bit more about the type of content that you do create and how you decide to go and produce what you're doing.

8:10 Yeah, so a number of different angles to this, and it's important to note that I've got a few different companies as well. So on the commercial side, that's where I be working with your company. For example, Jennifer if I, if you were to tell your story has a, you know, 30 second, television ad or social media ad, that's called Hemmings house and patio pictures, tiger pictures, work specifically. Ali with agencies with marketing agencies. So it's similar work, different type of customer expectation, but I just put that out there just to know I'm going to Clump those who businesses together because we are not coming up with the ideas ourselves. We're talking with our clients, trying to figure out what their business challenges, and how do we use film storytelling to help them find Solutions. So, let's just put that off to the side for a second because that's a really awesome bit of work that we do. I absolutely love, finding Creative Solutions, for business problems, but on the hemings film side. Which is my actual television production company. That's all original Ip we come up with an idea and we have to go pitch it to broadcasters.

9:07 And if a broadcaster wants it, they'll put x amount of percentage of the budget together that I have to go Finance the rest of it, through a bunch of different ways. And from there, we actually produce a bit of Television that will be seeing around the world essentially, but how do we get to that point of finding what to produce? Well, when it comes to documentaries, which is really my, my heart is a documentaries. I want to find a story that I personally, Personally, want to get involved with. So, we'll see some sort of a movement happening in the world. Some sort of social movement, whether it's got to do with environment, or positive, social impact, or whatever it is. If I feel that our gifts as filmmakers can help, the accelerate that movement forward and make positive change, that's my first box. I need to check does. This story need to be Amplified and if it's Amplified, is it going to create some sort of positive change in the world that I feel I'd be proud of being part of.

9:55 So that's 12 is okay. Now that I've got a concept is this Story, that sellable. And that's very important because we're all working in business here because films are expensive. Very low-budget, documentary would be 115. Thousand dollars, very low-budget. I'll do have to like a TV series that we finished this summer through season 4 and a half million dollars. For example, like there. It's a big range but it's all big money. So you have to have a story that some funder whether it's broadcaster or you know, philanthropist whoever impact investors are willing to pay so pay for I should say. So that turns my creative Concept into something into a product that we need to convince people to put money into to build a make it, you know? And then from that point, once we have financing boy, we've got the gem of the idea.

10:39 Then we embed ourselves into that story and then we, I'll give you an example. We recently finished a film in Peru, and this particular film is really special because as you know, because I know one of your former guest was talking about Ayahuasca Retreat, it's the sacred medicine in the Amazon has been used Forever by a lot of the indigenous people. Learned in Brazil and Peru, Ecuador Etc. Has now been revealed to the Western World, if you will, and it's very important medicine called Ayahuasca and it's transformational but it also comes from a limited resource which is combination of tree bark and Vine and surrounded by a ceremonial context. There's not enough of it to sustain every American and Canadian to enjoy.

11:22 But the thing is, the world probably needs medicine like this to heal, a lot of its trauma. And, you know, not saying that as a professional, but I'm just saying That is a making some good assumptions. And so we made a film to remind people that this is the IP of the indigenous people. They own this medicine, the sacred medicine, and though there seems to be a real willingness to share that medicine with non-indigenous. We have to be very respectful. I say, we as a button on Amazonian folks who are coming down and creating literally a tourism opportunity for a lot of these places, but you know, what happens with a lot of money and these sort of things could we made this film to solve the business, Job. How do we make sure if people are going down into the Amazon for these experiences that they're treading respectfully but treading lightly and doing it in a way that can sustain the ecosystem. So that was the challenge that we had to acknowledge and we were able to go and work with a lot of the indigenous folks there who are really working in the space and let them tell their story, you know, and we real the package it in a way that could be quite a consumable by any I say Western with parenthesis Western audience, you know, who might be Be considering something like this.

12:31 Anyhow. I see that particular project is really important because we see this massive popularity of the idea of going into the Amazon, and having a life-changing experience. And I think it's really a great thing. But we just have to be so careful. And before I go do that, that's one of my ways of doing my own due diligence, has to make a film about with of positive and negative impacts would be of that. That's a bit of a ramble, but I'm excited about that particular projects because it's it's not released to the public yet. It's called bye. Gnosis and I produced it with dr. Dennis McKenna, who is the legendary scientist in the field of psychedelics and ethnobotany and it was really cool experience to do that. So for me, going back to your first question, it's like that's a subject area that I care about deeply, but I don't know enough.

13:15 So what are opportunity for me to go back to school? If you will, like making a film deep deep research connection, with the people who are living the lived experiences and helping amplify and share stories, and you need to be shared for one reason or another. That's fantastic. I She ate that as an example and it reminds me of your mission which is to make the world a happier and Kinder place and, you know, being compassionate to not only the indigenous people that are in the Amazon but also the planet and being mindful about regeneration and not exploitation. I think that that's a big thing. As far as just making sure that we are sustainable and what we are doing and making sure that people are mindful about their consumption and what they're doing, how they're treating others, how they're treating the planet.

13:59 That for sure and so I think yeah and so that gets to the question about why on Earth you know your business would want to be a certified B Corporation because you know so it can exist without being certified and going through the Hoops that it takes to become certified but I would love for you to tell us you know what does being a b Corp? Mean to you and why on Earth would you want to be B? Corp certified. Well it's good timing because right before this call we had our Atlantic Canadian be corpse monthly call and we're All talking about the new certification that are coming in and how arduous and detailed it is to become and difficult to become certified, like exactly. No walk in the park. So if you see if you're a listener or viewer right now and you're not to be car up, but you see a b Corp logo on something? You know, that that company went through a lot to actually show, you know, to prove the claim that they're making they're good for the planet and good for people. So anyway, all that to say is a number of years ago because we've been a b Corp for maybe seven or eight. Years.

15:00 We were at a point in my business trajectory where we had a number of employees but we didn't quite have enough consistent sales to ever feel comfortable and as an owner of a company. The last thing you ever want to see is a point where you can't pay your people and I never miss P1. Payroll, my life. But there was this one period where we came really close to missing payroll and I was just a terrible terrible time and I told the whole team that you know, that this might happen and it was a real, you know, it's just a really scary time. And for everybody, there an opportunity came, a significant dollar project came to our door and I'll just punch the be strapped. I'll tell you what it was. It was a fracking lobbied initiative and the question was it wasn't a film saying that fracking is a good thing or a bad thing. It was just saying there are multiple sides to the story. And the cool part about that project was the film was about me bringing in the voices of indigenous leader versus oil. Executives Green Party leaders to conservatives like even if Circle Of different perspectives. So the people where I live could actually hear multiple angles but it was paid for by the lobby group. So optically, it was what it was. But then a few months later after the film dropped and we didn't hear anything about it.

16:11 It became a very contentious issue in my Province and violence protest. And people were heard arrested. Police cars were burned, like it was a big deal and whose video started getting circulated with by a lot of the conservative circles who are pro fracking but that was my video. So I immediately got attached to something that I personally Lee was not in line with. I wasn't against it either because I wasn't informed yet. Like I said about the diagnosis project what a great way to get informed. That was very uncomfortable, a lot of people who I respect touch and said, why did you do that work for that industry? And all this said it was very uncomfortable at the same time. I saw this video on YouTube called not business as usual, it's still there and the Vancouver be corpse produced it.

16:51 Many years ago, it was all but this concept of businesses that are operating specifically for positive impact and it's like those are my type of I started looking into it and I was like the B Corp movement. Interesting, I never heard of it before. And then I was like, wow, if we became a b Corp, maybe that would be almost kind of like drawing the line for myself internally about what type of work are we willing to do and not and I you know sometimes as an entrepreneur you do what you need to do to make sure your people are paid. But if we are certifying that we are doing something, then you've actually created a line that you can't cross anymore, and I wanted to do that for a million different reasons and that's no attack on. The oil industry at all whatsoever. It's just put us into a place of the type of projects that we want to work with. And I'm not even saying type of Industries, the type of project that we're working on need to be regenerative. They need to be life-giving and create a more holistic community.

17:43 And if there's a project that we're going to do, that's going to encourage division, we're going to walk away from it. So we're not judging in the industry. We're judging. What is the intention of the project? And what will the impact that project be? So that's why I want to be on the record and we did and as soon as we can be Corp a whole new world of Terry, open up for us that a lot of American clients in the B Corp, space. That have trusted having Silas and following their brand stories through film. And we've grown significantly since you came at B Corp and I'd say, most of all of our projects are really in line with the values of the company and the people that work here and I'm proud of that. That's something that I'll always say, you know, if you're thinking about becoming a b Corp and if you working in a business like mine that everybody can use video, but you really want to stay Niche, become a b Corp, and then you've got easy parameters to learn to work with them Meg I want. To thank you so much for sharing. All of that very openly because you just shine a light on the difficult decisions that Business Leaders have to make, do you make payroll or do you not do you go for the easy money or do you not?

18:42 And it is very easy to convince yourself that it is doing the right thing by taking the money, taking a project like this that may not necessarily align or dis aligned with your values but it was about something that you probably knew you had. I didn't really feel so good about but at the time it seemed like the best Vision for the longevity of your company right now. Yeah, and so, being a good corpore recognizing values. Come first values. Matter, first puts you in a situation where there is more understanding and agreement with your entire company, not just your company but your stakeholders everybody around you that these are the values that we are going to align to.

19:23 This is our yardstick for what to say, yes to and what to say no to and why. And then you can make them Those decisions all holding hands together and saying, yeah, we're all choosing together that it's more important for us to live by our values, then to make the next paycheck and doing that. Gives us some assurance that. Yeah, we're all in this together and that's what stakeholder value is all about. That's what be corpse are all about. And then you find the business opening up for you, as you said, because other people are like, yeah. I want to, you know, hire Hemmings house because I know that they're doing things in the right way. They're making decisions in the right way their supply chain. Everything that they're doing is really all about values first, it's all about putting people in Planet before profits and that's the way that we're going to be able to make this capitalistic Society less about money, making, and using that as just a yardstick for success, but happiness joy, melt so Health, mental Wellness. You know, the fact that indigenous people don't feel that, they're being exploited for capitalism sake. And so, those kinds of things do make it really important for other people.

20:29 You know yeah that's what's behind the be that's what's behind that logo that you see on these kinds of companies. And that's why. Yeah, it's important that if you go into a store and you see that or if you see that logo on a service providers website, it really does make a difference. It really does matter. So I being an entrepreneur myself, my company is also B, Corp certified. I know how difficult it can be. And when push comes to shove and sometimes, you know, you find your integrity, really on the line on many, many different Visions as a business leader, almost every single day. And the reason why I wanted to become B, Corp certified is just like you. I had worked for a lot of companies that time and time again. Wonderful people.

21:10 Just like us, we're making dysfunctional decisions. Were making bad decisions because of the bottom line and it just didn't sit well in when I kept seeing it, when I kept seeing unethical Behavior starting to come out, yours was not necessarily unethical, it was just misaligned with values. But yeah, well, yeah, in some cases. I had seen pure unethical behaviors, like fudging reports. Like, you know, that's like really, like not telling the truth, took a to Consumers about what was in your product, because it was cheaper to make it without it. And things like that. We're just time and time again happening. And it really just didn't sit well with me. So I had to make my own choice to live by my own values and live by my integrity and start my own company in the same way that you did and, you know, just really kind of leaned in for joy and Lena.

21:59 For what we built here. We believe it's a right? And better way to live. I wonder how many? Well, I'm like you've done a number of these episodes but having to be corporate leaders, have the exact same story, you know, of some sort of misalignment as you say working in an industry working for somebody else. Like, now this isn't working, I need to go do this on my own. I'm sure it's close to 100% because that's why the incorporate movement exists. It's because we had seen this as a problem, and we see that there is a better way to do. Do it and we ourselves want to come together as a community to create that change. And so, I would imagine it's probably close to a hundred percent. Let's go with that. That's a good start grandma.

22:41 And I want to talk about, you know, you've done different kinds of films. The documentaries, your talked about series, as well as the Branded content. You've actually set up different companies within your house to essentially work on these kinds of projects and I think a lot of people who work for companies or organizations, might think like oh wow, it's so complicated and expensive too. Our production company to get my message across, isn't everybody just using their phone anyway to shoot things? And so, let me tell us what are some of the benefits of working with a production companies such as yours? Yeah. Except that's a great question and it's neat. They said that about the iPhones and everything in the pocket because like right here, this thing is so powerful. I just shot a YouTube series just with this iPhone. It looks great.

23:22 It's this is a powerful tool. I really encourage people, especially business owners to get out there and shoot their own videos. Get out there, try it, feel it, understand it, before you hire production company because you want understand what goes into making a video, right? And if you don't have a budget start by trying it on your own, the neat thing is eventually going to realize that you're not a, you don't have time to do this on a regular basis and eventually you're going to hire a Film Production Company. It's just it's going to happen but instead of just being scared by winning a lot of money, a film production company and not knowing where the money is going, understanding the process is really important. So coming to the defense of spending money on See a marketing agency or a film company. Lot of times people will go to a marketing agency and the agency will then hire the film company.

24:06 That's a lot of money right there and agency on their own is you know but I'm marketing agency is giving a strategy there you know ad buys figuring it all out and then they would deploy a company like ours before working directly with flying with a small business for example what you're getting with us is insurance that the money is going to be creating something that's going to be impactful, it's going to be properly research. It's a third-party perspective, you can tell all your own stories that you want, and it's a good idea to do so. But when you have real proper film, script writers, who and researchers who are really pulling out the Nuggets of your brand that need to be shared with your stakeholder groups, that's powerful when it comes to production movies are expensive. You know, we're talking a multi multi Millions for most movies, you'll see in a theater, a lot of it has to do with Incredible skilled talent that are coming to the table directors of Photography, cinematographers who have many years of experience.

24:58 Capturing that perfect light. Coming to the trees, you know, like there's quite an art to it, you know, the gear one lens in our lens, we've got a lens kit of eight lenses, one lens in that kit is about fifty thousand dollars. This is glass that is just perfect perfectly crafted lenses to bring so it depends on what the client can afford, but the more that they're able to afford, the more we call it putting the money on the screen. So you can do a you know, a video for five to ten thousand dollars. It's going to be really good. You can do the exact same video for Or a hundred thousand dollars. It's going to turn heads, so nobody is discluded from entry. Like, if you have no budget, you can definitely make an effective video, internally yourself or with your staff.

25:39 If you've got a little bit of a budget, you can find production company like ours that have little bit more of a lower impact video offering which is a little bit. You know, one day, shoot only less upfront development, but the less upfront development, you do the higher risk. You have because you want to make sure that you're actually producing something that's going to work and that comes with a lot of research and up front. Development. So and then if you work with a production company, this is just what they do every single day. Week after week, they're pumping out really high quality videos. It's just a great way to show up in your Market, looking professional the way you deserve to look and the authenticity part 2 is really important like we live in a world of lot of greenwashing and whitewashing and no companies saying that they do something, but they clearly don't film is a very powerful way to express your authentic story and if you do it wrong, it can be very damaging if you do it, right. It can be incredibly Doubly fruitful. I think if the folks who do it wrong, are companies and Brands who are trying to control over their own message for the wrong reasons, but the ones who are really eager to connect with their stakeholder group.

26:40 Pathetically those, the ones are making true connections. I just think about Patagonia how many great film still raise that they've got out. None of them are about Patagonia, like, yeah, you might see some time to go in your gear, but not intentionally, you're going to see it because the people love the brand, but you see them making films in the short films about health Farmers or you know, different type of Bilal aquaculture or, you know, different Adventure films than skiing and mountain climbing and they're just talking to their stakeholder groups, that's it, they're giving them the gift of application. They're not saying come buy anything from us, they just happen to be throwing the party, you know. And that's where I get excited about branded content. Like you mentioned earlier is we can help companies put content out. That's not overtly saying come by from us but it's the saying hey we're here we're part of your community and we want to help you know and that's where I think, you know, positive impact from storytelling can come And really handy.

27:30 If that's the type of company that you want to be and show up in that way. Absolutely. Is there any type of company that you feel? You're mostly aligned with, I know that you said like at first, you know startup, you know do your own thing and then you know, start looking for production company. Are you at that level? Are you at like the come? See us first or are you at a, you know, a different level in terms of the yeah we're not really. We're not the best people to come to if you don't have a budget but hey, yes, call us if you have minimal to no budget because I I want to talk to everybody and meet everybody and guess, what someday you will be at the point where you could, you know, have a budget, you know, so definitely give companies like mine a call or CEOs and Founders like myself a call. Anytime the range that we work on would be kind of that middle budget range when it comes to working directly with companies. So that would be kind of on the low end like ten fifteen thousand dollars would be very, very bottom shelf of where we would be all the way up to a quarter million dollars for for projects that we do for companies. But we do like to do is people out when we can sometimes there's low seasons and slow Seasons where we can do things for.

28:36 You know, we can do two or three thousand dollar project if we've got time and capacity would love to help, but we do know the more you give, the more you receive just that natural law. So we do to help startups. We don't typically chase after startups because typically that's not really the place where we should be spending money. Necessarily is bigger budget videos, if you're a startup mode now, after heavily VC, financed different story. But you know, that's a whole different game. Talking about a lot of our friends in the B Corp World, who may be in the first five years of their company and maybe they're doing a million million half sales a year. It's a big investment to do 20,000 dollar video. So, you know, it's big. So we take very good care of those people and really try to challenge. Say, do you really need this video? Yes, we do. Okay, well we're going to do it in the most economical fashion as possible.

29:19 So yeah. So that's kind of where we're at and we would never want to lose the opportunity to meet it. People, we can also triage to because we do a lot of other video makers in the space. Who are awesome and values aligned. So I'd encourage anybody to hop on the call with me or email. And if it's not enough, it was a number of awesome, B, Corp, video companies that are popping up all over the place and they're all Wicked, so wicked in the Good Wicked. You can, you can say, oh, that's right. Wicked.

30:01 I just put that your back pocket. So Greg, how can people find you and your company's? Yeah. So the quickest way is Hemmings house.com. Hmm, ing, s house.com from there. You'll get links to patio pictures, and you also get links to Hemmings films and lots of stuff to explore their, you know, I'm pretty active on LinkedIn and Facebook. I'm not a Twitter guy. Definitely have Twitter, but not anymore. The blue, the blue check and I told you about the impact media subgroup is one that I put together for podcast people to share their podcast, should have videos.

30:48 Share their contents has something to do with the B Corp universe. But you know, you can find me on the Beehive quite a bit and you can also just email me Greg by having sauce.com and I try to get my inbox. So every single day usually starting at 5:00 in the morning, getting yesterday's every town is 0 so I really miss people's emails. That's usually the best way to get ahold of me. Well Greg, you are a treasure, thank you so much for your work. Thank you so much for joining me on the role models podcast today and I wish you all the best. Thank you Jennifer what a great opportunity to chat