Episode 41: Sarah Todd Hammer - A Model for Accessibility

0:07 Hello Beautiful Humans. Welcome to another episode of Role Models, Juicy Conversations with Beautiful Humans. I'm Jennifer Norman, founder of the Human Beauty Movement and your host. This podcast thrives on your support, so if you like what you hear, follow us, rate us, review us, and share this episode with everyone you know across your networks. Today's juicy conversation is with an extraordinary gal who's made it her life's work to educate on disability and advocate for accessibility. Sarah Todd Hammer is a 21 year old, three time published author, dancer and speaker. In 2010 she acquired acute flaccid Myelitis AFM which left her paralyzed from the neck down. She regained the ability to walk, but she has been paralyzed in her arms and hands.

0:52 Now a junior in college, she's studying psychology and communication studies, and she's built a remarkable presence on social media, having over 115,000 followers across her platforms. Welcome, Sarah Todd. Hi, Jennifer. Thank you so much for having me. I am delighted to have you on as a guest. You are what I consider a truly beautiful human. So I want to hear all about yourself, how you grew up and your family. What was it like? I had a great growing up. I've lived in Atlanta my whole life and I'm the youngest of three kids, so I have two older brothers and then grow. With my mom and my dad, and we have Havany's dog named Buddy. So that was my family and I was always very close. With my mom, I was put in ballet classes when I was three years old because she wanted me to dance, because she loved it so much when she was little.

1:47 And that's how my love for ballet grew. And that was something that my mom and I enjoyed doing together. And those are some of my fondest memories from when I was little. So I had a great growing up with my family. In Atlanta, we have that in common. I started ballet and tap when I was four years old and I always looked forward to the recital at the end where you get to get into those, like adorable costumes and perform. And everything. That's the best? Absolutely. So now you were about 8 years old and you were in your ballet class when you noticed that you lost the use of your arms and your hands. Can you tell us, take us back to that time about what it felt like? What happened? Yes. So I was 8 years old and I was at.

2:30 Ballet class. I had ballet once a week, and I was super excited for that particular class because we were trying on our recital costumes, which as you just mentioned, was always super fun. And we were going around the studio, kind of just jumping around in our costumes, having fun. I was doing leaps with one of my friends and then I noticed that all of a sudden I had a really excruciating head and neck ache and it got so bad to the point that I was crying, which was really unlikely. Me and my mom was looking through the window outside the studio to see what was going on, and then she noticed that something didn't look right. So we decided that I was just going to go home and rest for a bit.

3:13 So she comes in and gets me, and I go outside the studio and I'm sitting on the bench trying to put on my shoes to go outside. And I leaned down a bit to pull up my tights and adjust to them. And then all of a sudden, my arms and hands just stopped working. And just like. Fell limp. And so I turned to my mom and I told her that my arms didn't work. And so she was obviously like, OK, we're not going home. And the hospital at that point was pretty far away. And it was about 4:00 PM in afternoon, so there would have been a lot of traffic getting there. So we went to the urgent care facility that was about a 10 minute drive away. And by the time we got there, just about 10 minutes later, I couldn't walk, even though I could still move my legs. So things were progressing, really. Fast.

4:00 And we went inside. My mom explained what was happening and they flew me by helicopter to the hospital, which was a scary experience, of course. And then I was in the emergency room for six hours and I couldn't walk or sit up or move my arms and hands. And the doctor gave me Motrin for my neck pain, but he didn't think that anything was wrong. And so, after being there for six hours, he told my parents to bring me back in the morning if I wasn't better And then. He sent me home and we went home. And then the next morning I woke up and then couldn't move my legs either. So I was completely paralyzed from the neck down. And this was all within the span of about 16 hours.

4:42 So my mom called an ambulance and then we went back to the very same hospital by ambulance the next morning. And later that day I was diagnosed with transverse myelitis, or TM. At the time, AFM was not a known thing. That term wasn't even coined in 2010. So I was not diagnosed with AFM, but I was re diagnosed with AFM in 2018. And AFM and TM are pretty similar. They're all kind of part of the same group of neuroimmunological disorders. So TM wasn't too far off of a diagnosis, but it was not what I had. And so leading up until that day that you all of a sudden started to feel either numbness or that you couldn't move your hands and your arms properly, was there any illness?

5:29 Was there or anything that would give you an indication that something could have been happening or was it completely out of the blue? It was completely out of the blue. I didn't have any symptoms. I wasn't sick, I wasn't tired. I didn't have any numbness or tingling. It was just the headache came and then the arms and hands stopped working and it was just, like, really quick. So there was nothing out of the ordinary up until then. Wow. I know how difficult that time must have been for both you, your parents, your brothers, everybody who loved you because the unknown is always difficult to deal with. Sometimes when you get a diagnosis and you're and you know about it ahead of time, if there's a little bit of assurance, but the not knowing how this happened and you start asking yourself a lot of questions.

6:15 There are a lot of, you know reasons why people go through very, very hard times when you know just like dealing with with a diagnosis like that after your diagnosis. I know that you know you had this experience, but what was it like? And how long was it that you were feeling paralysis in your arms and your legs? So I was in the intensive care unit for 12 days after we went back to the hospital, and then I was on the inpatient rehabilitation unit for about 5 weeks. And while I was in the ICU, I had plasmapheresis treatment done which helped with regaining my leg motion back.

6:56 After I had the first of five treatments, I moved my. Big toe. So that seemed to be helping. And once I moved to the inpatient rehab floor, I started using a manual wheelchair that I pushed with my legs because I couldn't move the wheels with my arms. So they kind of got me up and going in that respect. And I then started to walk with assistance. I would wear a gait belt and my physical therapist would hold on to me and we would practice walking. And I of course got tired very quickly and needed a lot of help, but they kind of got me up and going. And so just doing a lot of physical and occupational therapy helped with that. And at the end of my two-month stay in the hospital, I was able to walk out of the hospital with some assistance and I had regained a little bit of arm and hand motion during my rehab stay.

7:47 So I left the hospital with being able to move my right hand a little bit and having a tiny bit of motion in certain areas of my arms. Essentially I probably regained some strength for about. Two years after I left the hospital, but basically for about the last 10 years. I've kind of been on the same level of strength since then, So I have very, like, spotty paralysis in my arms and hands. I can't move my left hand at all. My right hand is very weak, but I can move it and I can't lift my shoulders up. Really. It's hard to explain unless you kind of interact with me or watch me move, but I have spotty paralysis in my arms and hands today. So do you still continue on with physical and occupational therapies even to today or is that something that you kind of halted because you're pretty much OK with the way that the motions are and it's pretty much stabilized? Back when everything first happened, I of course did a lot of therapy.

8:43 And I did a lot of therapy for a few years after getting diagnosed. But even back then, within the first few months, I was kind of like, OK, like, I don't really care about doing therapy. I just kind of want to go back to my life and do what you wanted to do. Yeah, So that was. Really my top priority. I also understood that I needed to do it on some level if I wanted to get back to dancing. And there was a moment in physical therapy a few months after everything happened where I was able to stand on my tip toes and that kind of made me think that I could start dancing again. But at the same time, I was not into doing therapy. I just kind of wanted to accept things and move on with my 8 year old life. And that's how I am today.

9:24 Like, I'm not really interested in therapy. Mostly what therapy is helpful with now is. Finding ways for me to do things. So I really like asking, like my occupational therapist for advice on how I could maybe improve, like brushing my hair, or like improve my workspace for when I'm doing homework. But I'm not interested in really recovery based therapy because also at this point in my diagnosis that's not even realistic. So I moved on from that pretty quickly in my head, even though I still did it for a few years after everything happened. Yeah, I know From having a disabled son myself, you become a master at just life hacking. You just yes, You know, we call it Macgyvering.

10:04 It's like we'll just figure things out. We'll like tie things together. We'll make things easier than you know. But. But we have to do it very customized because he's an N of 1. You're an N of 1, and nobody's like you. And so you kind of make up your own ways of doing things to the best of your ability. And sometimes you get those little, oh, that's kind of cool. Maybe I'll try that. Yeah. You kind of figure out you know and invent things on your own, don't you? Yes. I mean, humans are amazing and adapting, and I think a lot of people think if they ever became disabled, they wouldn't be able to figure out how to do things. But it's really like the case that if you become disabled, you kind of just work with it and figure out ways to do certain things. And if you need help with certain things, that's OK too.

10:45 You just kind of learn kind of what you can and can't do and go with it. Yeah, absolutely. That's amazing. So you have to tell me about getting back to dancing. I love that you were so tenacious. And you're like, this is what I want to do. I'm going to figure out how to do it. You know, What point did you go back to? Ballet. So while I was in the ICU, I had my dance companies DVD's like playing on the TV in there, like I was watching them and it was of course really heavily on my mind and I had had plans to audition for my dance companies. Like real, like company. Like being a member of the company. Because you could do that once you were nine years old and they were actually letting me. Audition early at 8 years old, and I really wanted to be able to make those auditions.

11:29 And then when that deadline passed, because I was in the hospital, my goal was to be able to go to my dance recital. That was in June and everything happened to me in April, but that deadline passed and so then I was like, OK, I didn't achieve those things, but I really wanted to just get back to dancing just because it was something I loved and I wanted to just be able to do it as a hobby at the very least. So my therapist knew that that was a goal of mine. So when I stood on my tiptoe. Goes in therapy. Once I got out of the hospital, they were of course really excited for me and they tried to like incorporate doing like Just Dance on the Wii and stuff to make therapy fun because they knew I loved dancing. So they were supportive of that. But the day after I stood on my tip toes in therapy, I went home from therapy and then I had my dad like helped me set up my dance DVD's I would always dance to in our family room.

12:19 And I remember he wanted to stay in the room and watch me and make sure I was OK And I was like, no. Fine, because I never liked when my family watched unless I wanted them to. Yeah. And he went and sat in the next room over and I'm sure he was scared of me falling or something. But I just did like one quick little dance. And I remember being a little bit unhappy with how I did things because of course it wasn't like normal, but I was super proud that I was able to do it. And then as I kept dancing more and more, I think it helped me get stronger for one thing, physically and then also mentally. But I started to realize that I could just change the. Moves of the dances I already knew to make them fit my body's abilities. So I guess I just kind of realized I was already subconsciously doing that on some level.

13:04 And I was like, I could actually make this into my own hobby of choreography. And that's how I just decided to start choreographing dances, because they then became something that was really unique to me and something I could do on my own. And I realized that my disability was kind of serving as like the driving creative force for my dancing. And that was really. Really cool. And that made me discover a whole new hobby I probably wouldn't have discovered if I hadn't become disabled. Wow. That is so great. And I think that it's a great lesson in the fact that, you know, dancing is something that is there to bring you joy. It's a release. It's very cathartic. And so whether or not you feel like somebody else is watching and you're doing a performance, you know, there's certainly that side where you're doing it to entertain. But then on the flip side, there's just something about moving the body.

13:51 And yeah, it might not look the same same way, but adapting is is wonderful. And. And not judging yourself for not necessarily doing it right, always wanting to be better. But yeah, there's that fine line between, you know, criticizing yourself and saying, oh, I didn't do that the way that I wanted to. But yeah, yeah, getting a little bit, you know, better and just feeling that you're always getting joy out of it is, you know, the best thing ever. Oh, that's wonderful. I love that. And so, gosh, now you are an advocate for people who are living with disabilities. And, you know, it's empowering you to be your own advocate because I think that in a lot of your videos you're showing the world what it's like to be you. You're pretty much helping to educate on what life is like in in the world of Sarah Todd.

14:37 Not necessarily asking for help, not necessarily, you know, asking for advice, which I know you probably get plenty of. And not necessarily doing it to be an inspiration, but really just being an advocate and saying this is what life is like. And hey, there are certain things that could be made easier and more accessible for people who have conditions such as mine or others. But yeah, And a lot of people aren't really necessarily aware of it. And so they appreciate having a glimpse into what it's like and saying, oh gosh, you know, if I could be more mindful and if I come across somebody like Sarah Todd or anybody else, then I'll kind of know what to do or not know what to say. It may not be perfect because that person might not be exactly the same mindset that Sarah is, which and you're extremely positive, which is wonderful.

15:18 But I think that people are really, you know, gravitating to your voice and your expression. Did you always know that you wanted to use your voice to help others to create positive change? So pretty shortly after I became disabled, I got into disability advocacy and that all kind of started in 2012. So just two years after, everything happened when I met one of my now best friends who was also diagnosed with transverse myelitis, which we thought I had at the time, right? And we met in person. Our moms had been talking on like a Facebook support group, and then we were both at Johns Hopkins. For medical treatments around the same time. And we met in person and she was 14 and I was 10. But we got along really well and related to each other on so many levels.

16:03 And shortly after that we just decided to write up our stories with our disability journeys and put them in a book together. So we did that and then published it when I was 11 years old. And then we wrote two more books and made a trilogy out of our lives. And those were published when I was 14 and 17 and so writing. The books is kind of what made me realize that I could do a lot with disability advocacy. And it also helped me realize that I love to write, which I didn't know before. I did that. And that's how I got started writing articles for news publications and then speaking. And I did book signings and I spoke on podcasts, I spoke at schools. I did little like mini documentaries. And so that's kind of how all of that advocacy started. And I always was open about my disability on my social media. I made my.

16:54 Social media public When I was in high school, probably like 9th or 10th grade, and I realized people were interested in certain things about my life. So I always talked about it on some level on my social media. But then in March 2020 when COVID hit and I didn't have anything else to do, I had downloaded TikTok and TikTok was really taking off around that time. And there was a trend on there where you would put up both your hands and say put a finger down if and then tell a story that was super specific to you and then at the end put a finger. Down. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I could do this with my AFM story. So I just randomly did that one day and everyone loved it. It got over 1,000,000 views and I was like, wow, so people are interested in this. And that's when I started posting a lot. And that's how my presence grew on TikTok, YouTube and Instagram.

17:40 And it's kind of just taken off from there. I feel like I've gotten more creative with the ideas that I've thought of things to post. I realized that there are things that might not seem super interesting to me, but that other people love to learn about. And so as I'm going through my. Day sometimes I'm like, oh, I'll just film this. I think someone would find it interesting and people do. So that's kind of how that evolved, I guess that's incredible. And so, yeah, it seems like what you're sharing is so relatable as life of a college student, things that, you know, like topics like ableism, discrimination, the importance of accessibility. And so do you feel that like the act of doing your social media has also just helped you in terms of like your catharsis or feeling confident and feeling like, yeah, I can actually be a voice for people who are disabled and maybe make some real change in the future?

18:32 Yeah, I mean, I definitely get great feedback from a lot of people, even like with my books as well. People saying that my books have made a difference for them, which is always nice to hear. And it's cool just learning what people are interested in. Because like I said, there are things that I think might not be that interesting. And then I post them and people are like, Oh my gosh, I loved learning this or I love seeing into your life. And a good example of something of that nature is the other day I just posted a video talking about how one of the employees at my college cafe helped me open my water bottle and my ketchup and everyone loved that. I got like 400,000 views. People like, oh, that's so nice. Like I love that you are able to ask for help. So just things like that are nice to see the feedback on. And yeah, it's nice knowing and making a difference. And I also learn as I'm doing it too, because sometimes I'll post something and then some people leave really thoughtful comments and then.

19:24 And we have like a dialogue about the whole topic. And so I'm learning as I'm doing it too, which I really like. Yeah, sometimes in TikTok it's like I'm here for the comments and I'm just go through and I I love the humor. I love some of the things that people say the way that they support with such humor. It's actually really, really great. And the interesting thing that I've noticed as I was watching some of your videos is that you are learning more about yourself and you are evolving to where before you might have been a little bit shy to ask for help, but now you feel more confident about asking for help. And so it's really nice for people to know that, you know, you're on your own journey as well. And the thing that I have noticed of having a disabled son is that a lot of people were just scared.

20:05 They were intimidated and shy to even approach somebody for fear that they might say the wrong thing, that they might do the wrong thing, they might just mess up and it would be just embarrassing and shameful for everybody involved. But that's not necessarily the case. I always say like air on the side of asking. It's like, hey, oh, what's going on? But not doing it in a way like oh. What's wrong with you? Like, oh, I'm gonna pray for you. It's not that near like know that this is a human being and there is a sense of dignity and empowerment that, you know, everybody wants to feel. And so just having that conversation and saying, hey, need a hand or hey, you know, can I help with that is that you know something completely. OK. The word disabled. A lot of people are like, oh, I don't want to say the word disabled differently.

20:47 Able to something. I hate that. Yeah, it's like, don't pussyfoot around it. Come on. Just like, exactly OK to say disabled and to say disability. I think that most people feel that way. Some people, again, I don't want to make a blank statement, but you know, some people may get offended by it. But for the most part, it's just an easier way to say this is how I am, this is how I know that I'm allowed to park in this spot and. Exactly. All of those things. So you're also the president of the Disability Alliance at your college. So I'm a junior at college now and when I was applying to. Can you tell us more about that? My school, I knew that they had a disability club because I was talking to a current student and she was a part of it and it had a different name at the time. But when I got to college, I got in contact with the president of the current club and shared some of my ideas with her and told her that I wasn't fond of the name of the club. It just kind of sounded a little condescending. It had the words diverse abilities in there, so we were not a fan of the name of the club. So we had some conversations.

21:54 About changing the name and revamping the club a little bit. And so last year, my sophomore year, we did that and changed the name and kind of came up with some new goals for the club. And the president of the club was a senior last year and I was a sophomore, so she made me Co president with her. And then when she graduated last year, I became president this year. And we've done some cool things. We're trying to focus on disability culture and identity. So we felt that that was a big. Need at my school because we're trying to get people to realize that disability is diversity and we're seeing that disabled students want that as well. So that's a big focus of our club. But we also have the focus on educating the campus community. So we've done an event that was a service dog etiquette education event where two students with service dogs talked about their experience and like what to do and not to do around service dogs.

22:48 And every year we do an accessibility scavenger hunt where we go to a building on campus and find. Things about it that are accessible and then things that are inaccessible and then whoever finds like the most creative things when surprised. We on Friday are doing disability trivia, so we'll have some trivia questions written and people can come and get some free food and play trivia to test their disability knowledge. So just do like fun events like that and a variety of different things and we have a good amount of people who come to the events. Our education event had about 40 attendees and it was open to the. Whole campus, so anyone could come, and it's nice seeing that people are interested in learning about disability. I feel like there's a good amount of people here who are showing an interest, which gives me hope. That's amazing.

23:36 Well, congratulations on all those fun activities and for such a great turn out. Thank you. So now I also noticed on your TikTok videos that you are showing the accessible and inaccessible items around your college campus, probably very similar to your scavenger hunt that you had done. I'm just curious because I know that you also did a video on a hotel where the lift was inoperable and then, you know, after several months, they gave you kind of a lame letter back about like, oh, we're so sorry, kind of thing. And. And that was pretty much it. Wah wah. But but yeah, I'm curious, like, have you gotten any surprising responses in terms of being able to call out certain inaccessibilities? Have there been some changes based upon, you know, you're vocalizing that you've noticed something? So usually when I know.

24:24 Something's inaccessible at my college. It's oftentimes a door. Like that's almost always the thing. And I'll have someone help me film a video of it to educate just the broader world on accessibility. And then I'll share that on my TikTok and my Instagram. And then I go to the disability office and let them know that it's broken. And then they submit a work order and physical plan fixes it. And that usually is very quick. It usually just takes a few days. But most of the change at my school hasn't come really from like me posting on. Talk. It's more like I notice things. I'll post them and then I also have to take the extra step to e-mail them and let them know. Yeah, but they are really responsive, which is great. I do just wish that that responsibility didn't fall on students to report things. I suggested to them that it would be nice if fiscal plant go around like once a month and check the elevators and the doors.

25:15 And they said that they didn't have the capacity to do that. But I wish that there was just something where it wasn't. Always students having to report things is broken because it. It's exhausting. Like, I don't feel like doing it all the time, but once it's reported, they do fix it, which is good. HM yeah, I know. That's unfortunately the the realities of life sometimes. That's sad. Yeah. Hopefully with additional attention maybe maybe there will be some other measures that can be taken that are more proactive than. Yeah, I would hope so. I mean, my disability club has talked about maybe making like little signs for the accessible door buttons that say to please press them gently because I feel like they break. A lot when people smack them or hit them with their feet and then we're going to put a QR code that people could scan that will send them resources on how they can report the button is broken. So that's an idea that we had that we're going to see if we can implement on campus.

26:08 I haven't asked the disability office about it yet, but I kind of want to get their input on if that could be done, If we could go around and do that. And if they say yes, then I think we'll go around and put up those signs and that might make a difference, Yeah. And it seems like the newer buildings are a little bit better, you know, they the better quality equipment. And they seem to have the ADA much more in mind. Some of these universities with much older buildings, Oh boy, it's treacherous going up some of this. Hard. Yeah. And some of the elevators are just really old and creaky. And yeah, it's hard. All right, let's shift gears and talk about something fun. Let's talk about clothes. Gosh darn it.

26:48 Let's talk about accessible clothes. Now, I saw some videos where I always give love to Zappos because they are one of my favorite accessible places, as well as Hilfiger. I always give love to Tommy Hilfiger for all the incredible outfits. But do you have some favorites or there's some favorite pieces that you have, some other favorite brands that you have? I agree. I love Zappos. They're my favorite. Tommy Hilfiger is one of my favorites. I've been posting some social media. Zappos talking about their clothing. The dress I'm wearing right now is from Zappos. They just have like really good variety. They have great kids clothes, which is awesome for me because I tend to wear kids clothes because they fit me the best. So I love Zappos and it's nice to see companies thinking about disabled people and being innovative in design. And what really helps me is finding clothing that doesn't have buttons and zippers because I can't do those independently. So finding clothing that maybe just has like a stretchier. Neck so I can like easily put it on and take it off on finding things like elastic waistbands that's easy to pull up and down. I found some great shoes from Zappos that look like they have laces but they're slip on shoes.

27:55 So I get like the style like and the look that I want but the function is there which is amazing. So those are like some of my favorite things to look or and especially to dresses and tank tops that have like adjustable straps is so nice because I'm so small and it's just so hard so. Yeah, I love Zappos. I love Tommy Hilfiger. JC Penney has some stuff too. I just posted some social media ads for them as well. And so, yeah, it's really nice seeing these companies caring about disability and making their items inclusive. Yeah, awesome. Yeah, we've been pretty loyal to this brand called Billy that makes these great shoes that you can like, zip around. And I think that my son has them in like 5 or 6 different colors.

28:38 I've heard of those. I've heard they're great. They're really great for kids that are wearing AFO. Those or those that don't have the ability, to your point, LASA or even, you know, do Velcro. These are just so easy to just zip around the tongue and get on and off with with no trouble at all. Those are fabulous. Yes, I love shoes. Like, shoes are so hard. So finding shoes they're easy to do is amazing. Yeah, for sure. And walking around campus too, you want to make sure that they're comfortable as well. Yes, yes. And my favorite shoes right now are my ones from Zappos that are just like slip ONS, but they look like shoes with laces. Love that. So ingenious. Yeah. So tell me, like, if there is a day that is particularly tough and you're feeling like, who? I'm just curious, Like, I mean, we went through COVID. There must have been some pretty tough days. But you know, is there anything that you do or that you've got a routine that helps to kind of lift you out of that? I mean, it sounds unrealistic, but I'm honestly like hardly ever in a bad mood.

29:34 Like it happens so infrequently. I mean there are sometimes where like it typically happens if I'm like walking to class and I'm just like thinking while I'm walking. Or maybe sometimes where I'm like wishing that whatever I'm wearing, like, fit me better. And because a lot of the time my clothes don't fit me well because my arms have a lot of muscle atrophy. And so I know that if I didn't have a disability, stuff would fit me better and I would look better in certain things. So sometimes I get down about that, but not really in an insecure way, more so just in an annoyed way. So that's something I might get frustrated with. Or if I need help with something. And on the odd chance that someone's not around, that can be annoying, but I usually just have to wait a bit and then someone can. Income help. I don't know. I mean, sometimes I just like, have the thought and I let myself have the thought and then just in kind of like, you know, it's OK Like I'm hardly ever upset about anything.

30:22 And so when I am, I let myself think it and don't like, try to make myself not think those things. That's incredible. And so you've always been just naturally upbeat, happy, high vibe. It's. Not, yeah, like I said, you. Do it sounds unrealistic, but I mean, yeah, I really am like hardly ever upset. And like, if I am, it's usually not disability. Related SO do you have any favorite mottos or quotes that you like to think about during the day? Yes, I actually have one on my desk, and this was my senior quote. It's painted on the Berlin Wall. And so my mom and I took a trip to Germany three years ago and looked at all the art on the remains of the Berlin Wall. And there was this one quote that says many small people who in many small places do many small things that can alter the. Face of the world.

31:13 And I loved that quote. I liked how it was written. I thought that was very unique and it stood out to me. And I feel like, I like how it can be applied to so many different things. It could be applied, um, to what I'm doing, which I like about that, but it can be applied like to the history, like it was on the Berlin Wall, which I thought was very interesting. So I really love that quote. And then another one I really love is something like going through things you never thought you go through will take you places you never thought you'd go to. Or something like that. Just so. True. For my life, I'm doing things that I never would have done if I hadn't become disabled. And I think that's one of the most beautiful things about disability is you really do end up having all these cool experiences. You learn amazing things that you never would have learned if you didn't become part of this community. So those are two of my absolute favorite quotes. I love that.

32:03 And I love that you're able to see disability as a gift. I see it that way, too. I look at, you know, my son has introduced me to a whole world of special needs children and a whole special needs population. And I'm like, it's such a gift to be able to know what it's like and to just feel this unabashed love and kindness that comes from being, you know, part of the community. And I really feel that, like, I feel so grateful for it. I feel really like blessed. And I'm like, wow, He chose me as his Mama. I couldn't be happier to be, you know, the mom of this special boy. What do you think that you're most thankful for? That's such a hard question. I mean, I'm most thankful for my mom because she's like my best friend. I always tell her I'm like, I will never love anyone more than you.

32:45 And she's like, yes, you will, one day you will. And I'm like, no, never is she most thankful for her. And then I guess just right now, in terms of my life, I'm so thankful to be at college because I always knew I would be able to go, but I didn't know how it would really work. And I knew I would figure it out, but I just didn't really know what it would look like. And so I'm really thankful to be at the college that I'm at. But also you're independently and there's sometimes where I'm like walking around campus and I'm just thinking. About how thankful I am that I'm here. So I would say yes, my mom in terms of people and then college right now. Wow, such great things and such a great person to be thankful for. Sarah Todd, thank you for being you and I appreciate you being on the show today.

33:27 Thank you for having me. This has been a fabulous conversation.