Episode 39: Chamiah Dewey - Representation Matters, So I Make Fashion For Little People

0:07 Hello, beautiful humans. Welcome to another episode of Role Models juicy conversations with beautiful humans. I'm Jennifer Norman founder of the human Beauty movement and your host, this podcast thrives on your support. So if you like what you hear, follow us rate US to review us and share this episode with everyone, you know, across your networks. So I love giving the spotlight to those beautiful human Ins who are passionate about inclusivity accessibility and representation today, my guest is the lovely shamaya Dewey, who's joining me from Hampshire England, shamaya is the CEO and founder of shamaya Dewey fashion. The UK's first clothing, brand for people of short, stature under four foot ten. She started the line in 2021 when she was only 22 years old, as a student, at the London College of fashion Nasha. Maya is a woman of advertised, so she tends to get A lot of questions as to why she'd be interested in starting a fashion line for little people.

1:04 So I'm glad she's here to share her story. Welcome, shamaya. All right, thank you so much for having me. It is my honor. So first of all, I like to start from the beginning. Please tell us about yourself and your family. Yeah. So, I'm from England. I've always lived in England in Hampshire. Specifically, I was raised in a home that wasn't necessarily very well or so it meant that I grew up with lots of And so I think and I think that's something that's really helped to push me forward and I have come up against adversity in my childhood so that means that as an adult again I have that resilience and outdrive, I've always known. I want to be a fashion designer. Since I was really, really small. And one of the things I used to do was make my brother watch me do fashion shows when I was younger because I loved it so much, the say, yeah, but otherwise had a pretty generic upbringing for someone in the UK but yeah, it's definitely shaped who I am and where I've gone.

2:00 Now, as I mentioned at the beginning, your brand shamaya, Dewey fashion is England's first ever collection created for people with dwarfism and those under four foot ten. This is so exciting. Can you tell us? What was the inspiration? How did this come to be something that you thought? Gosh, I'm going to start this kind of clothing line and it's going to be with my name on it. And you know, it's something that I really have a passion for. Yeah, it's interesting. Because as I mentioned, I've always wanted to be a fashion designer. That's something that I just didn't. I think tively know that that's what I wanted to do. And I always knew I wanted to design to make people feel good. And in particular women, I wanted to make women feel confident in their bodies and to feel empowered in what they were and have option.

2:43 But I wasn't quite sure how that would look until 2018. When working on a seasonal program that I do with young people, one of the young people in my team, had a conjurer posea, which is the most common form of dwarfism. And I got to spend a month with her kind of day-to-day. Got to see how she I have so got to see some of the challenges she faces and how resilient to those challenges she really was and really hard to understand that the world really isn't built for someone under 4 foot, 10. And out of curiosity, I did a little bit of research about fashion for little people and found that the only stuff on the market at the time was a bit. Frumpy it was quite expensive and it wasn't very trendy and I thought, as a young person that's not what they're looking for.

3:25 Like they want to feel exactly the same as everyone else. He just needs to be smaller or it just needs. To have shorter hems, those kind of things that need some small adaptions. So I think instinctively at that moment in 2018 it was just before I went to University, I know that I wanted to explore that. And then during my university studies, I did do a couple of projects about clothing people with dwarfism and in 2020. I started an Enterprise placement year. So I stayed on at London, College of fashion and to get on this Enterprise placement, we had have a business idea to my business. Idea was clothing for people to do. ISM and I was really fortunate. I got to spend that year, really learning the ins and outs of how to start a business. The things you need to know regarding finances and IP, and negotiating, and all of those skills that really set me up. So during my final year, the clothing brand launched and it's been running since and I graduated in July and the past couple months have been crazy busy but it's an exciting time now is the brand sold online or do you have placement in any stores in England, so it's all online at. Moment placement in stores is definitely a dream and it's definitely something that I want to do in terms of having pop-up shops as well.

4:37 And I love the way that Jim shark. If you know, Jim shark, I love the way they've done it, where they get to go across the world, meet new people, they get to meet their community. And I think for something like, what I do that is so community-driven, wouldn't it be amazing if I could take that to every city and hosted the parts? It's fully accessible and inclusive and is a real Community Driven space. So it's definitely a dream to have some more in persons. Aces, amazing. Now I know that when you're getting into a specific Niche, I mean dwarfism is something that is certainly prevalent, but I think that a lot of people within fashion, would consider it too small to care about unfortunately. And so unfortunately, this is a, a part of the fashion industry that to your point. Hasn't been seen.

5:20 It hasn't been represented and you are the first in your country to be able to launch something like this. Because you did see that there is a need. And so Why not serve it? Why not serve it with dignity? Why not serve it with style and why not serve it. So that people do find, joy and acceptance and something that they feel good about. I can imagine that a lot of people probably had to take a lot of stuff to the tailor shop or just cut things and learn how to work with what was ever on the market and try their best to make it their own. So your experience with the person that was in your program originally, yes. So, having particular, I can't quite remember if we actually ever spoke about anything. I know that she was due to have a prom and I think we would have spoken about prom dresses, more than likely.

6:05 That's obviously a challenge because you have to cut half of the dress off, pretty much, but it was really the research that I did after that, that I found the answers. I was looking for and like you said, lots of them work with local tailors and seamstresses. They have a mom or grandma, who Taylor's things for them takes up the hems or they do a bit of DIY and then we'll cut it roller. It's those kind of things, but that's really common. So it's just not A great option. I think like lots of people know, sending something to the Taylor. It takes a lot of time. It can be quite expensive half the time, it might come back and it's wrong. So then you've just spent maybe one and a half or two times, the price of the Garment and it's actually just been botched and you can't wear it anymore. So I'd like to think that we're cheaper faster better way of wearing clothes that fit really well. Yeah.

6:52 And so in putting together your business plan you must have looked into the prevalence of dwarfism and you know some of the things that That are in terms of trends for this particular Market segment. Can you share some of those with us? Yeah, so the kind of Market size of people would wolf as a is, an interesting one because it's really hard to find solid numbers and the numbers I've been working with for a long time is that there are six hundred and fifty thousand people worldwide who have dwarfism. However, it's actually Dolphins I'm aware this month. So there's lots more information out there, flying around. I saw something recently posted that there's actually I think 1.4 million people with dwarfism, Which is a much larger number but I am now taking a business in a slightly different direction that while we include people with dwarfism. We also include other conditions that are short stature, so that's things like brittle, bone disease, that be cerebral, palsy spinabifida, those kind of conditions that mean that someone doesn't grow to average high and that is thought to be about 2.3 percent of the global population. So that's about 200 million people worldwide, who are short stature.

7:55 So it really is, I could while it is an age, it's pretty large Market. The spending power is huge, it's called the purple pound. So if anyone's a, where the spending power of people have disabilities is called the purple pound and in the UK alone, it's something like 267 billion pounds per year. So it really is it a huge Market when you really get into the nitty-gritty of a impressive impressive. So I saw that you are for fashion template books, for little people, and wheelchair users. And so it seems natural for you to take that next step and, you know, move into those that just need accessible close. Going frankly yeah definitely the fashion template books were inspired by conversations of people and speaking to people about fashion and what their challenges were and what they enjoyed about fashion, that they want to lean more into when they have clothing that fits a recurring story that I had from women especially was that when they were younger, they wanted to be a model or fashion designer, or stylus, something in the fashion world, but they just didn't see a place for it and they'd never seen anyone there like them before doing it. So, the fashion template books there, To show them what clothing can look like on their body so they can test out different designs in there and it's also to inspire them, they can be fashion designers, they can be models, they can do all of those things because there is, we're spreading representation and positive portrayals of them. But yeah, it's been lovely to hear the feedback on those template, that's, you know.

9:18 Nice. Has there been positive feedback on the clothing line as you've launched it. I understand that you've actually done a little bit of Runway showing of your items. Can you tell us about that? Yeah, so we went to and in Fashion Week in September, she was September 17th. And I now say that was my, it was the best day of my life so far. It was so amazing. And I always think if I could just bottle up that feeling of joy that was shared between myself and the models and just spread it to everyone. It was overwhelming, there were lots of Tears, lots of happy tears, but the feedback was great. I think not even coming from a biased point of view. I was told that when our models came out, the crowd cheered louder and they clapped her Da and someone described it as when my models came out, it felt as if they put an energy with them and that energy was just happiness and it just radiated from them. I think the crowd felt that.

10:10 So and afterwards, the crowd, we're coming up to the models asking for pictures and telling them how amazing they did and how lovely they looked. And you can see on the models faces that this is one of the first times that they've really experienced that and feeling like they're the center of attention in there being respected and valued and seen and heard. By the fashion industry was just amazing. It was so lovely to sit back and watch something that I kind of been thinking about for so long as something I brought to life. But when there's a body in the Groves and someone's wearing, it really does bring it to life. And it was so amazing. Well, congratulations for putting that together as your brainchild and then seeing the joy and seeing the inspiration that is being spilled over to everybody. Now that it's become such a public event and it reminds me of the fact that I was listening to Do Oprah Winfrey talk the other day where she was saying that over the years and years and years that she has been doing her show and the thousands and thousands of interviews that she's done. There is one thing that we all as a human race want and it's not power and it's not money, it's not that it's validation. We all want to be seen, we all want to be heard, we all want to be loved, we all want to know that we matter and that is what you are bringing to people.

11:25 And when anybody disability or not, dwarfism or not, when they see somebody Else being celebrated, it touches the heart and it touches the soul. And it really touches the emotions in a way that we all feel like a celebration is happening deservedly. So because people who hadn't been seen hadn't been heard had been overlooked for so long. Are now finally seeing themselves in a place like London Fashion Week, Holly smoke. And you were able to do that. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I know that was completely the feedback, the models gave was it was almost like a childhood dream that they never thought would be able to come into. Russian. So it did feel amazing and I enjoy giving that service and giving people that joy and being able to share it. I also get joy from the happiness that they feel so it was amazing.

12:10 Absolutely. And so one of the other things that I just wanted to give you, you know, the hand clap or is your commitment to sustainability, in fashion. Can you tell us a little bit about that? And why that matters? Yeah, so sustainability something that is really instilled in us at London, College of fashion and it's something that I'm very passionate. What about? I think I'm a intensely empathic person and if I know that there's an injustice somewhere, I just can't turn a blind eye to it. And at University, we learn a lot about the Garment trade and the atrocities that happen in places like China and Bangladesh and Pakistan, these places that kind of fuel fast fashion. So I knew that started my own brand was always going to be in the most ethical way I could do it. So I was really passionate about Manufacturing in the UK because I think we have so much craftsmanship. A why let it go to waste?

13:02 We used to have a booming sewing tradition, and knitting and weaving and it's kind of slipped because everything's going out to Asia because it's cheaper that because they can have sweatshops and slave trade in these awful things. So I did some research did a couple of changes with manufacturers about have found a manufacturer in Newcastle in the UK. That is founded by women and it's run by women who were all paid a living wage. So that's where the clothing is made. So, it means I feel good about about providing them with work and I feel good with the outcome I get and I feel like I hope the customers feel good that when they purchased, for me, it's coming from a loving place that it's all handmade. And it feels very crafted rather than some of you might get from Xin. That's come from a sweatshop in China and just run off the mill. But I'm also very passionate about the Fabrics that we use. Obviously, we all know that a lot of clothing is made out of polyester.

13:53 What people don't realize is that's made from like fossil fuels and Plastics, so that stuff doesn't biodegrade. So It's end of life, which in this day and age is pretty soon after its ball. It goes to landfill and it will sit there for however long it takes for it to degrade. I'm not quite sure probably something stupid like hundred years, but I'm really passionate about using biodegradable Fabrics, at least so bare minimum, it could be made in Cotton, we've got some cotton bamboo Jersey. We've got some tencel, which is made out of wood pulp and that means that when it does eventually go to a landfill after hopefully years and years were it will degrade back into the Earth and it will regenerate back into kind of natural soils. So it's something that I'm really passionate about is the sustainability side but also making growing ethically and appreciating the Garment workers that actually bring it to life because without them, there would be no fashion brands.

14:41 They are the ones that bring it to life. Yeah. And a lot of people don't realize that when they're going to a shine and I'm going to over here Forever 21 or an H&M and you know, there is a reason why that is so cheap and it should not be that cheap if you're using their labor practices, ethical labor practices and the fact that they So cheap is an indicator. It's almost a red flag should go off. That's, you know, there's probably some imbalance in the way that this was made aside from the fact that, of course, when you get to a certain amounts of economies of scale you're growing and you're doing things, you know, in very large place, of course, you know, the cost of each, good of each garment will go down but to a certain degree. So I just want to say that after reviewing what you've got on your website and your pricing, it's really extraordinary for you to be able to do small batch sizes.

15:28 Having just started doing It barely locally within the UK and being committed to the sustainability of the types of fabrics that you're using the quality of the Fabrics. The quality of the craftsmanship. It is not easy, it's not easy to start and be able to afford that at what a lot of people would consider accessible pricing. And now there's a whole loaded conversation about what is accessible pricing, but I know having been in business for a long time and looking at your pricing that it is incredibly Fair. It is incredibly good value. Given all of the things that you're putting into in terms of the mindfulness of the way that you're running your business and you're starting it. So, you're off to a great start. Girl, and I just want to thank you for the amount of representation that you're bringing to individuals who are under 410, who otherwise have had a really hard time being fashionable. Yeah, I really hard time.

16:21 I think as I've retired people and I'm relatively sure I'm five foot two. So I've had my own very - Jordan Yeah, so I'm sure you can relate. I have minor struggles of clothing that as something might be slightly too long, an inch too long or things don't quite fit over my hips. And my waist though, I'd like them to and sleeves might be a bit too long. I have minor struggles. I don't think people quite realize the extent of the struggle that people have when they're under 4 foot turn. It's not just everything's too long. Is that the proportion is completely different and children's clothing, doesn't fit because children's clothing is made for children. It's not made for adults with boo. Seven bombs and thighs and and everything else and tummies, it's not made for that. And I don't clothing is too long but it also is not quite the right proportion.

17:09 So there's a big challenge that I have which is just to get these proportions, right? There's no amount of Googling I can do to find the answers. It really is getting really Hands-On talking to people trying things out. So it's a much longer process, but I think it's a much more valuable item at the end and I think that I saw a Tic Tac that you actually made a model form. I'm one of the first that would actually help to be able to measure out the garments that you're using, right? Yeah. So, we've got a Tailor's dummy in the form of a woman with achondroplasia so that's been like pivotal in helping to develop the garments in a way that fits perfectly that when the customers put it on, it fits like a glove because it's designed literally for their bodies.

17:51 So like I was saying before just having a shorter hair and more shorter sleeve, doesn't quite fix all the issues. They're still gaping at the back when they've got quite Cuff by or they might have bigger size. So even if something shorter, it might still be quite tight. So to be able to develop clothing on a mannequin, that literally is that body type is something that I think even in the fashion industry alone in these to be a bit more commonplace. Because as we all know, if you look at a Tailor's dummy and you look at the proportions of it is nothing like a real woman as such. There's no lumps and bumps or there's just none of that their structures completely wrong. It's a really outdated way of Designing. So to have our shorts, touch mannequin, Is pivotal and it means we can design things much more accurately.

18:33 Wonderful, do you have any of your favorite pieces with you that you can show us or? So I don't look at that all or Ridge but I can describe them for you explain it. So my favorite one which is probably I think the most well recognized one in our occasion while I'm it's called The Willow dress and it's made in a beautiful blue China design lace and there's quite an interesting story behind the laced. So I met Died when I was 18 and when I think I was maybe 21 we went to Scotland, it was just before lockdown. Before we knew really what this whole lockdown was going to be which planned a trip to Scotland, to go and visit some lace meals for a university project that I had.

19:16 So anyway, we've gone up to Scotland. We went to this lace Mill in the Irvine Valley called myb textiles. And it's the last standing lace Mill in Scotland of its kind and they're using like some of the oldest machines thinking their or 1800's and it isn't, this magical place. They took us all the way around and they had some of this leftover blue lace topper and I just loved it. And I kept it for my final year project because I knew I wanted to find you a project on Blue, Willow China because I just love it. I just think it's so nice. I'd love the tradition behind it. I think it's so beautiful. I think it is. One of those kind of quintessentially, British things is to have the blue and white china. So interestingly, the Irvine Valley is where my Scottish half of the families from which is my dad's side. So it's quite nice that that dress has such a deep rooted story.

20:04 The silhouette is quite similar to a Dior dress and Duels like my biggest influence. And I absolutely love his designs and he was probably the person that I was most inspired by as a kid when I watched a documentary about him. So the willow dress is definitely very special to me and it's definitely the most favorite thing I've designed so far and I think from speaking to other people everyone's Blown Away by that dress. So I think that's definitely gonna be the Best my most favorite. How lovely do you have any other fashion influences aside from Christians? Your, I do. I find lots of designers. Very influential. I love this story and their meaning by a lot of what Alexander McQueen did and I do love his Silhouettes as well.

20:46 And the kind of the grungy feel, which is something that his clothing, probably something that I would never really wear, but I'm really inspired by that. I'm always very inspired by the stories behind his collections. I just love that there was so much advocacy behind them and he was really Passionate about the things he believed in. And I'm also very inspired by Stella McCartney and her sustainability views. And I don't know she's vegan or vegetarian, but I'm vegan. So I very much relate to that. But I'd say they're probably my two other biggest Inspirations lovely. I actually had the opportunity to go. See an exhibit of Alexander McQueen's fashion at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art recently where they paired his work along with masterpieces and headdresses and Incredibly Artful shoes. It it was just a stunning statement about his work his legacy and where he got his inspiration. In some cases from Greek goddesses and other cases it was very to your point grungy and very you know God Save the Queen and just really extraordinary extraordinary work that definitely had an impact and influence on a lot of fashion for sure.

21:53 I think his legacy is so interesting and if you watch the documentary on Netflix about him, it's so tragic. And it is so sad, but it's so fascinating at the same time. So I'm always just very inspired by anything that comes out of Alexander McQueen and I loved it. His legacy still going and very much still going strong. So, where do you see yourself and shamaya doing fashion going and five years? So, I think in five years, I imagine the brand being like a One-Stop, shop for short stature people, and I imagine that will be doing much larger Collections, and more frequent collections. As while sticking to our ethical and sustainability values. I do really want to be that place that for anyone under 4 foot 10, whether you're just proportional and you just happen to be very small or whether you have dwarfism or brittle, bone, or cerebral, palsy or down syndrome, all of these conditions that make someone under 4 feet 10.

22:48 I want to be the place that people recognize as the place to go. So I know there's a place called, is it Long Tall, Sally I think for tall people which I think maybe is possibly outdated now. But Find a place that people recognize. Oh, when you're short, you go to Shanghai Drew fashion and I'm really passionate about keeping exclusive to small people because average-height people, we've got loads of options as someone's five foot two. There's lots of Petit rages, I can shop from that cater to some of my high and there are connections for tall people, there are now plus-size collections. There are brands that cater to people who are ethnically diverse and I just think that short stature people are the most ignored group of people in the world. That's my personal belief.

23:30 So I see it really being the One Stop Shop. I see myself doing a lot more public. Speaking about clothing, for short, stature people and accessible design because it's something I'm so passionate about. And I've learned so much about, I want to share that. And I want to teach students because I think students are the way forward is teaching the people in education, really, the accessibility is something that needs to be spoken about, and it's something that needs to be recognized, and that's across things like fashion design, art architecture product. I'm all of these things that affect our day-to-day lives. I think there needs to be a lot more education, so I really do want to speak about that and to be part of that change by just see the brand continuing to grow and to reach more and more people and to impact people in a really positive way. So that's how I see myself in five years. Wonderful.

24:19 Now, you know, at a young age you took that leap of faith in yourself in what your vision was for this, you started this fashion line, do you have any words of advice for those that might be A bit intimidated to begin, or, you know, just really want to make a difference. But don't really know how. Yeah. So, I think I'm definitely one of those people that knew, I wanted to make a difference in the world, and I think that's just part of my personality. That's part of my being that I knew, I wanted to do something that was going to be impactful in a really nice way. That wasn't part of the competitive and vain part of fashion. I think I would encourage people to just get out there and to speak to people because I don't think it will take long before you find a group.

24:59 If people or an issue that's been ignored like myself working with this girl, with achondroplasia, it's something I was never exposed to before, so it was never on my radar. Had I not have met her. I probably wouldn't be where I am now. So it's just a case of, I think meeting people speaking to people and just being very present and mindful of what's going on around you because there are things that could change everywhere. And there are places there's room for all of us to make a difference. And one of the amazing things about the adapter fashion industry is that we're so well. Welcoming and that we're so friendly with all friends of each other. In the UK, all of us, adaptive Brands, we all help each other out with different information or different opportunity. So I think if you're thinking about going into the doctor Fashion World, do it because you'll be welcomed with open arms and I think you have just got to have that resilience like I mentioned before, I think having a background of adversity and growing up with not very much money and I moved out when I was 17.

25:56 So I've been self-sufficient for a long time. I've grown up Aliens. And it's something that is now instilled in me. So when I come up against challenges and hurdles I don't see it as an endpoint, I just see it as just another challenge. So encouraging people to have that resilience and just to go for it, you kind of have to just start if you don't start. Now maybe you never will so just start and I think it's this Steven Bartlett cast our video I'm sure it's him that says just to get 1% better every day and I love that because on the days where you really don't feel like it or things are really tough and you having really bad day, really tired. If you just think, if I just get one percent better today, then I'm on the right track and that could be one of the better could be having a day off. Sometimes that's having a day off, or mom, said, Betty could be chai Wallah.

26:41 I'm going to make my comfort food tonight, and I'm going to have pizza instead of my usual healthy mindful dinner. I think keeping that in mind, when you're trying to start something new, just get one percent better, whether that's just setting up a new email for your new business or having a look at how much websites cost or whatever it might be, I think It's a nice way to start. Well, thank you so much for those words of advice. Shamaya Dewey, I appreciate you coming on to the show. You are a role model and I am so excited to see what my do. We fashion has in store for it. Going into the future Pinky.