Destigmatizing Men's Mental Health with Jonathan Niziol

Jennifer Norman:
Hello beautiful humans. Welcome to the Human Beauty movement podcast, your source for hope, healing, happiness, and humanity. My name is Jennifer Norman. I'm the founder of the human beauty movement and your host. This podcast is here to guide you on your journey of self love, empowerment, soul alignment, and joy. With each episode, I invite beautiful humans from all corners of the globe to join me for open conversations about their life lessons and the important work that they are doing to help heal humankind. Take a moment now to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode. I'm so glad you're here, joining me for today's show.

Jennifer Norman:
On the outside, some people seem to have it all going on the looks, the sex appeal, the glamorous life. But on the inside, it may be a different story, story entirely. Today we're going to talk about how men are finding the courage to reveal their inner battles with mental health issues to live more truthfully. According to the World Health Organization, about 264 million people globally suffer from depression. But men are often less likely to seek help due to societal expectations of masculinity. The perception of the masculine ideal to be strong, stoic, emotionally resilient, has previously hindered men from expressing vulnerability and seeking support.

Jennifer Norman:
But my guest today wants to change all that through his example and advocacy. Jonathan Niziol is an international model and fitness coach. He's here to have an open discussion about his own personal response to setbacks and his message for other men who may be suffering in silence. Be advised, this show comes with a trigger warning. We're going to talk about alcoholism, drug addiction, eating disorder disorders, relationship strain and death. So I encourage listeners to stream with caution. If you or a loved one is experiencing a mental health crisis, you can text 988 for immediate private support 24/7 so now, without further ado, I'd like to welcome Jonathan to the show. Welcome, Jonathan.

Jonathan Niziol:
Thanks, Jennifer. Thank you for having me. It's great to be here. And thank you for such a great intro. Wow.

Jennifer Norman:
Thank you so much for the work that you're doing. I know that your story had begun about 20 years ago. You lost your mom's suddenly, and it was the day before your 21st birthday, right?

Jonathan Niziol:
Yeah, it completely rocked my world. You're never ready for that, ever. And especially at that time, the day before my 21st birthday, it's kind of like I was transitioning from childhood to adolescence, like getting to have a different relationship with my parents, starting to have like a bit more of an adult relationship and yeah, I mean, it's a very tumultuous time anyway. And that just completely shook my world and rocked my world for the next 20 years until what's today, right? Yeah.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. It seemed like it was the start of, first of all, probably very traumatically, this idea of a very deep grief that took over your life.

Jonathan Niziol:
Massive.

Jennifer Norman:
And. Yeah. And then not only that, but you had lost friends along the way and just a lot of things had happened. It seemed to almost be a pile on, as it were, which the universe sometimes gives you, doesn't it?

Jonathan Niziol:
It sure does. I just look at it. It's life, just what I've been through and stuff. But I want to share that with people. Like you said, there's a large stigma around mental health and especially with men and the other things we're going to talk about grief and stuff like that. And just. And I did it for years. For years of, like, just got a man up and I'll just get drunk every day or just do a bunch of drugs and or whatever else, just to not feel my feelings instead of seeking out because I thought, you know what? Therapy's for wimps therapy...so I'm not going to sit there and have somebody judge me. I'm not like, I'm not a woman. Am I going to sit here and, like, go and talk about it and stuff? And then it got to a point after 15 years of it, where I was like, okay, I've got to change. Like, I've been living this life for too long and something drastic has to happen, and now I'm ready for it. And, yeah, it was great. It's been great, and it was. But I wouldn't change the path that I've walked.

Jonathan Niziol:
I wouldn't take anything back. I would not change any of the mental health struggles. I wouldn't change the addiction. I wouldn't change eating disorder. I wouldn't change. I wouldn't change at all any. I feel like I had to go through it all. It's what has made me who I am today. And I'm pretty proud of. Of who I am today.

Jennifer Norman:
Absolutely. Well, let's back up for a second, because I know that when you were young, and obviously it's very difficult to understand how to cope. And to your point, society tells you to just hide it all or to bury it or to find other ways to ease the pain. And so you went into years long addiction, correct?

Jonathan Niziol:
Mm hmm. For sure. For sure. And especially 20 years ago, it wasn't talked about. It was like grief wasn't talked about trauma, wasn't talked about mental health, wasn't talked about, like, I started dealing with symptoms of anxiety and depression, and I'd never heard those words before. I never, like, heard them. And if I did, it was like a punchline in, like, a nineties sitcom or something. And I was like, what's that? That's a funny joke.

Jonathan Niziol:
Like, I don't know, whatever. So I just thought I was going crazy. I just thought, like, I'm losing it. Like, I'm. Nobody's ever felt this way before, and I just had no idea. Then I was diagnosed with severe anxiety and clinical depression and panic disorder and self harm. And it helped me, and it took me a while to realize that education is the biggest thing that can help, and we'll get into that later. But in the short term, I took medication, which helped a bit.

Jonathan Niziol:
But what really helped was getting drunk and getting drunk a lot. I mean, of course it didn't help in the long run. It just exacerbated the symptoms and what I was going through. But in the short term, it seems like all your problems go away and everything's all like, 15-20 beers at a time. Get hammered and it's numbing. Yeah, yeah. You sober up and it all starts again. And then it's even worse, too, because things that I said and got a bar fight and just whatever, you know, putting strains on people's relationships or relationships with people.

Jonathan Niziol:
In my life, my health was deteriorating. Yeah. But it's. Again, I didn't know how to deal with it.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. Now you have siblings, right?

Jonathan Niziol:
I do, yeah.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. I was curious, did this also impact them in a similar way or did they have other ways of expressing their grief?

Jonathan Niziol:
That's an interesting thing. When you lose a parent, people can go in different directions. And I haven't talked to my siblings in 18 years, so that's, I'll leave it at that. Like, that's...people can show their true colors when things happen and, yeah. I haven't spoken with them, so I don't know, from what, I've taken a bit different path, but, yeah.

Jennifer Norman:
And I think that that's a really good point to make at this stage, is that everybody processes their grief differently. And as they say, there's no right or wrong way to grieve. But you do have to go through your own journey. They'll go through their own journeys. And whether or not eventually you guys come back together, I mean, it will ultimately be your choice. But for the time, it's kind of like we need to work on ourselves and heal that which is within, and then the rest of it can take care of itself. So I'm sorry that happened, but it happens quite, quite often in families. There's just a not meeting of the minds, as it were.

Jonathan Niziol:
Yeah, exactly.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. I think that there are so many different ways that people respond to trauma, and your story is going to be very relatable to many. The idea of having a sudden grief and then having it spiral into just not being able to manage it on your own. But the thing that I think that is really compelling about your story is how you coped when it came to your physical appearance. This podcast is the human beauty movement, and it was born out of fact that I was in the beauty industry for decades. And then I realized the superficial aspect is not what life is all about. This approval seeking and this striving to be something and perform and to put on a show or to look a certain way really isn't the be all, end all to happiness. And a lot of people attribute that sort of thing to women mostly.

Jennifer Norman:
But I think that it's so interesting that I was floored to learn that up to 90% of men experience some level of body dissatisfaction. And when grief happens, it can hit hard, it can take a toll on the mind and the body. And so I would love if you can share with our listeners what your journey was in terms of your health, your physique, how you coped with it, and the outcome has been for you, for sure.

Jonathan Niziol:
I think, like you said, it's a much larger thing with men, and especially nowadays with social media and the whole comparison thing, but it always has been. When I was drinking, I was quite overweight, like 265 pounds, about 40% body fat. And I got very lucky because I had a big, very bad case of acute pancreatitis. And that put me in the hospital for just under a month. I had to have five blood transfusions. I almost died twice. I lost 60 pounds like I was on my deathbed. But I say I'm lucky because that's what I needed to be that severe in order to get the message.

Jonathan Niziol:
It was from drinking. It was acute pancreatitis from drinking.

Jennifer Norman:
So that was your rock bottom, huh?

Jonathan Niziol:
Yeah, and I'd have many rock bottoms. I mean, that just put me in the hospital. I wouldn't stop drinking otherwise, but I came out of it with like, I'm never going to drink again. And I haven't drank since 16 and a half, whatever years. And I gained a very much a better appreciation for our bodies. And then I turned it back to fitness. I've always been an athlete. I love playing sports.

Jonathan Niziol:
Always physically active. I have three hockey games this weekend on three different teams. Friday, Saturday, Sunday. It's just I play hockey four times a week. It's what I do. I'm from Canada. I love it. Like, I just came back from the gym.

Jonathan Niziol:
It's just. But I. Being 25 at the time and going through a near death experience, when you know you're 25, you think you're invincible and stuff and laying there, and the doctors told me that the severity of pancreatitis that I got is kind of a medical anomaly because they're like, somebody your age should not get pancreatitis this badly. This is what we see in somebody who's 80 years old. They've been drinking since they were, like, 15-20. And I didn't understand it either, but I think everything happens for a reason. I think my mom had a big part in that, and I needed it to be that severe in order to. So went back to playing sports.

Jonathan Niziol:
So I was playing professional lacrosse, and I had a career ending knee injury. And I thought, I. I'm in shape now. Maybe I'll try something new. I'm a big believer in when one door closes, another one opens. And I thought, okay, I'll try some modeling. Because my mom was a model in the late seventies, early eighties, and I started modeling, got some contracts. It was really interesting because it was like, 16 months after I got out of the hospital.

Jonathan Niziol:
Like, I rebuilt my body, went through all this stuff, and my buddies were like, how did you go from, like, leading our team in penalty minutes and fighting every game to now you're on the cover of, like, these magazines in your underwear? I'm like, I don't know. I just. Whatever, man. Just life. So I did that, and I was doing pretty well in Toronto. And then I got the opportunity to start traveling internationally, and I was working out still, like an athlete, we're all built genetically different. Obviously, I build muscle very easily with my background. So I saw these guys in these magazines and stuff.

Jonathan Niziol:
You know, they look like they're jacked, and you're just like, man, whatever. So I'm in the gym doing my thing, and I get to, like, South Africa, my first stop, and I see these guys, and I was like, oh, I'm like, twice the size of these guys. Like, they're lean and cut, and I'm big and cut. So it was like, that kind of started to plant the seed of body dysmorphia and, like, doubt where I was like, hmm. I'm like, okay, I booked this, this, and this job. But so and so booked this, this, this, and this job. Maybe I need to be more like this guy in order to. And I started doing that kind of thing in my head.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah.

Jonathan Niziol:
And I was sober at the time, but I was definitely using fitness as a crutch.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah.

Jonathan Niziol:
Working out excessively, you know, spending like 6 hours in the gym, like crazy. Like just whatever. I didn't realize at the time that was a distraction. That's a big, that'll be a big reoccurring theorem.

Jennifer Norman:
Addiction trading.

Jonathan Niziol:
Yes, exactly. Exactly. So I got to Miami and I was like, okay, I'm going to completely switch over now. I'm going to just run. I'm going to put down the weights. I'm going to change my body and be more like these other guys. That's also when the eating disorder happened. Started was it was a way for me not to feel my feelings.

Jonathan Niziol:
And I could just go like I'd be on these super strict diets. I say that I was a functioning bulimic because I'd wake up, I'd eat my healthy breakfast, lunch, dinner. I'd take all my vitamins. I've always been really good about taking my vitamins, but it wasn't until, like the end of the night or something when I was just alone with my thoughts and I was like, I can't go back to my place and just sit there with my thoughts. And I go get like a $100 worth of junk food and just like binge and purge. And I did that for a while where I was, like, just comparing myself and that saying, comparisons thief of joy, because I was doing stuff that it didn't. I struggled to eat disorder for about eight years, but I was doing stuff that, like I said, it was making me look more like other people, but it wasn't being true to myself. And I've learned, and I think this is a very important thing, just in life in general and especially modeling.

Jonathan Niziol:
But life in general, be the best version of yourself. There's only one of you out there. There's already this guy, this guy, and this guy that you're competing against. That's great. If you try and make yourself the clone of this guy. Well, there already is that guy. There's one Jonathan Niziol, one Jennifer Norman. There's be the best version of yourself.

Jonathan Niziol:
And when I finally learned that, I got more work and my agency was like, okay, we need you to be like a 42 suit at the most. I was like, honestly, I'm not trying to be a bodybuilder I'm just being athletic. I'm a 40, 44, or 43. That's just the way I'm gonna be. I'm like, okay. And I, like, that was very cool with it, and it helped a lot. But the eating disorder thing was, like I said, it went on for quite a while, and it was a way to escape and also distractions, like you said, just trading one addiction for another.

Jennifer Norman:
I think that it's a myth that models have this high self esteem. They're so self confident. They've got it all put together. Tell us what it's really like to be a model, Jonathan.

Jonathan Niziol:
Man, that's what I thought going into it, too. And I've met some of the most physically beautiful people in the world, in whatever your opinion of beauty is, whatever, who have such self esteem and self confidence issues. Or on this flip side, I've met stunning people, male, female, whatever, just beautiful people who've been on the covers of this. Like, you'd recognize them for sure. But on the inside, they were not good people. And that, to me, like, I don't care what you look like on the outside. If you treat the cameraman, second assistant like they're a piece of whatever, I'm like, no, I ain't got, I don't have time for you. You think you're what? Nothing makes you better than that person.

Jonathan Niziol:
You know, we're all just people. I'd rather go talk to that person than sit here and, like, listen to you talk about yourself. But, yes, it's a massive thing. I mean, it's a, it's a very competitive, extremely competitive industry. And when you don't book a job, this is something I learned the hard way as well. You go on for a casting, great. I've got this casting, and you don't get it. And you think immediately, what's wrong with me? Because this industry is, it's based on this.

Jonathan Niziol:
I didn't get the job. There's obviously something wrong with me. And it's like, well, it could be just the casting director. You know, you walked in with a striped shirt, and they don't like striped shirt. Like, it's just whatever. So that was a hard thing to learn because I didn't start modeling until I was 26, and I thought I had a pretty good understanding of who I was and stuff, but I still went through years of this body dysmorphia and, like, this whole understanding and becoming comfortable with myself. But, yeah, it's, that's what you think the modeling industry is. It's not.

Jonathan Niziol:
It's hard work, too. I mean, we put in long hours, long days. I mean, it's, you know, the behind the scenes stuff of keeping yourself in shape. And I keep myself in shape for life because I want to be healthy. Modeling is a byproduct of it. Whenever I work with clients or talk to people, it's like, take care of yourself for life and whatever. Just figure out modeling is a job title. Same as landscaper, same as lawyer.

Jonathan Niziol:
Like, it doesn't, there's. There's job titles. One doesn't mean more than the other, but, yeah, it's an interesting industry.

Jennifer Norman:
As an aside to our listeners, you've probably seen Jonathan on the cover of a Harlequin romance novel. I think you've been on about 150 covers. Is that correct?

Jonathan Niziol:
Yeah, actually, back there right behind me is that bookshelf right there and then the one below it are filled with Harlequin books. It's interesting, though, too, because I'm on the cover of all these romance novels as the hero. But when I was going through those things and doing the jobs and shooting them, I felt like I was broken inside. I was addicted to drugs. I was mentally, my mental health was. And I'm going and playing the hero, and people around the world are reading these books and being like, oh, man, that's the guy envisioning my face for that character. And I would just go home and just be like, what people see on the outside is not what's on the inside. And I would just.

Jonathan Niziol:
I just felt like I was broken. So it's really interesting the juxtaposition of that, where it's like, like I said, people look at that and like, oh, that guy's got it all together. And, like, when I started talking about this and doing podcasts, a lot of people that I knew at the time with my drug addiction and stuff, I always been very insular where I just, I hit it very well. And like, dude, we had no idea. We thought you had it all. Like, you're the male model, all the chicks, all the girls want. Like, everything's like, it was just like. And I was like, yeah, I feel.

Jonathan Niziol:
I get it. I was just really good at hiding it.

Jennifer Norman:
So, yeah, because you're still struggling with that grief and that, like, God sized hole that's inside of you that you're trying to fill with other things. And it's interesting because, you know, to your point being, being a model is probably one of the worst things that you can do for your self esteem, I think, you know, for knowing how I used to, unfortunately, you know, as an executive, hire and be like, oh, no, that person's nose is not gonna photograph well, or that person's physique is not quite right. And it is so commoditized and it is. It's. It is horrible for the self esteem. It truly is. And a lot of it is just about, you know, the way that you're looking and there's so much competition, and it is overwhelming to the psyche. It is a recipe for eating disorders.

Jennifer Norman:
It's a recipe for mental health issues. And interestingly, I think that a lot of people chase that because they think that it's going to give themselves this feeling of self importance or, you know, the accolades, all of the validation that you might receive from the outside. But that doesn't help if the inside is still suffering.

Jonathan Niziol:
Yes, exactly. Exactly. You're completely right with that. And it's. That's what I thought, too. I mean, I thought that was going to be the way. And, like, and you have to remember, too, is even the top models in the world, you know, the top, whatever, 5% of, like, the supermodels, male female supermodels, they're probably not booking, like, 75% of the castings that they're being put forward for. You know, 75% of the jobs are being put forward for.

Jonathan Niziol:
And then the rest of us. So it's kind of like, it does. It happens to everybody. Like, yeah, you see? But it just. It is very much that kind of industry. And I get it.

Jennifer Norman:
It's very easy with all of the rejections stacking up to say, like, what is wrong with me? What am I doing wrong? I'm never going to be able to do this, you know? And so, yeah, it really is something that is a testament to resiliency. And so let's say, speak about resiliency. Let's speak about the positive side, because certainly after all of this, you did have perhaps another wake up call where you realized, okay, the shredding isn't doing it. I'm still feeling empty inside. The drugs aren't cutting it. So tell us about what happened from then on to the point where you are now, for sure.

Jonathan Niziol:
So I want to also say that I've been modeling for 15 years, and I've had some. I've had a lot of wonderful experiences as well. I don't want to paint this picture of modeling as, like, all this kind of stuff. There's just. It's the reality of, let's like, let's talk about both sides. And I'm glad that you are, we are talking about it that way. But I've had wonderful experiences, met wonderful people, you know, all kinds of stuff.

Jonathan Niziol:
But. So the final breaking point for me was I was addicted to, like, four drugs. And slowly but surely, my kind of the universe was telling me that these things are not the direction for me. The last one was an over the counter muscle relaxer, and it was. It contained. Each pill contained 500 milligrams of what's called methacarbamol, and that's the active muscle relaxer, and 200 milligrams of ibuprofen.

Jonathan Niziol:
And when I do things, I don't just do things a little bit, I do things a lot. When I'm gonna be. When I play lacrosse, I'm gonna be professional lacrosse buyer. When I drink, I'm gonna be an alcoholic. When I, you know, it's...

Jennifer Norman:
You're a man of extremes.

Jonathan Niziol:
Yeah, extremes. Absolutely. It's my best and worst quality, but I've learned how to balance it. So it says in the bottle, don't take more than twelve a day. And I was like, I'm like, that's. That's for other people. So I started taking them and taking them, and I had run out of kind of substances, other substances that I had been doing and stuff. And I was like, okay, I need to do something else.

Jonathan Niziol:
So I got up to the point where I was taking 100 pills every single day. I was taking 50,000 milligrams of methocarbamol and 20,000 milligrams of ibuprofen every single day.

Jennifer Norman:
And this was to be, like a pain reliever or. What was it?

Jonathan Niziol:
Yeah, it would just kind of numb you out. Sometimes I get, like, really loopy and kind of high and be like. Or I just. Just fall asleep for, like, 6 hours, like. And then I'd wake up and I'd dump, like, another handful, like, 30, into my hand, and I would just swallow them down and just be like, you know, it's. It is what it is. So I got to the point where I was, like, I was starting to see the effects of it, and I was. I was just feeling, like, lethargic and just, just really.

Jonathan Niziol:
It was pretty obvious that I was not doing well physically. My health was deteriorating, and I blamed it on everything else. And I've done this before with, like, a lot of addictions, and a lot of addicts will do this where, like, you know, we see our health waning. Or our relationships or our moods or our mental health. And it's everything else except for what's right in front of us. It's like, oh, I didn't need enough carbs that day, or I just need to take a rest day or whatever. I'm like, I'm making up every excuse except for the fact that it's. I'm taking 100 pills every single day.

Jennifer Norman:
Wow.

Jonathan Niziol:
So I finally got to the point where my body couldn't take it anymore. It turns out I had major internal bleeding from intestinal ulcer, which is because I. I thought it was fine even though I was losing weight. I'd go on set and be like, oh, wow. Like, you usually are. Like, a large. Why are you wearing the medium now? I'm like, oh, I'm just cutting weight. You know, I'd come up with some excuse, and I wasn't seeing blood passing in my urine or my stool when I was, you know, purging.

Jonathan Niziol:
I wasn't seeing blood because I was still doing that. And that was the point at which I was like, okay, I had a shoot one morning, and I got up, and I was just. I remember I was brushing my teeth and my knees were buckling because I literally, I couldn't hold my own weight. So I called my agency. I'm like, I can't go to this chute. I'm going straight to the ER. And that's when they told me about the ulcer. And I got out of it, and I said, okay, I can either graduate to the next level of drugs and start taking oxy whatever or hydro whatevers.

Jonathan Niziol:
And I know for a fact my life will be over. Like, just over. Or I can do something else drastic, and I can finally go to therapy. And that's when I decided at 35, I was like, it's gonna take something drastic one way or the other. I can go, you know, whatever path. And I chose to go down that path and finally relented, and I was like, okay. I mean, for years, I told myself, therapy is not for me. It's for, like I said, it's for wimps, it's for this, it's that.

Jonathan Niziol:
And I went and I did cognitive behavioral therapy, where I just sat down with a therapist. And it was every week at first. And I had to learn for the first time at 35 years old, how to be a sober functioning adult. I'd never been that. You know, I'd never. I'd never been that. I didn't know. It just.

Jonathan Niziol:
And all of those boxes of trauma and all that stuff that I had, like, nicely, like, packed away and compartmentalized it all, like, came dumping down because I didn't have any. I didn't have a drug or any kind of distraction to keep me away from it. So I always say, like, I grew up on a farm in Canada, 500 acre cattle farm. And growing up at a farm, it's a lot of work. And, you know, it's not a matter of if you want to do the work, it's. You have to, because these animals, they rely upon you. Yeah. So it'd be -40 degrees in Canada, and my dad's on a business trip, and I'd have to go put hay out for the cows.

Jonathan Niziol:
Did I want to? No. Did I have to? Yes. So I'd just get out. I would do it. Same thing with summertime. Like, my friends are at the cottages and all kind of stuff. It's beautiful, it's sunny. We've got three, like, 60 hours days of doing.

Jonathan Niziol:
Hey, did I want to? No. Did we have to? Yes. So I took that same mentality and the same thing with athletics, and I rolled up my sleeves and I said, I'm taking this thing head on, and it's not going to beat me. And I thought so many times that I was not going to get through it. I'm like, I can't do this. Like, I'm never going to be normal. I'm not my version of normal, whatever that means. I'm never going to get through this.

Jonathan Niziol:
I'm never going to, you know, and I was just. But I hearkened back to that, like, no, push through. Like, do this. This is. This is fundamentally who you are. Go back to that and push through. And I always say, like, I'm just some regular dude, Mandy. I'm just a regular guy.

Jonathan Niziol:
And if I can do it, anybody can do it. Like, anybody can absolutely do it. It's just having that belief in yourself. It's having that persistence. It's being resilient. It is, you know, pushing through and finding the positives in each day. You know, like my little dog that's making noise in the background, she. She's helped me in so many ways because, you know, when I was going through my deepest and darkest, she'd walk by and do something funny.

Jonathan Niziol:
I'd be like, that's funny. And I would try and focus on that because the rest of my day was doom and gloom. So that's kind of a long winded way of saying, but that's what I had to do. I had to finally learn how to be a sober, functioning adult at the age of 35. And, yeah, I've learned to better balance and to not do things to extremes and live a more, much healthier and more functional and well rounded life.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah, I think that you finally learned what it took to ask for help, to seek the support, and to be okay with not having to try to do it all on your own, whether it be with your animal or whether it be with a therapist. It's like you're leaning on something else and not feeling like you have to take it all on yourself and really shoulder it on yourself. And so I think that's a really valuable lesson for a lot of guys. I mean, is there, aside from the seeking out help, what other things do you think that you've learned along the way, that you would want to tell every man who's going through it right now?

Jonathan Niziol:
I would say that it doesn't make you weak. It doesn't like sharing your feelings, talking about your feelings, going through stuff, admitting you're going through stuff, asking for help. It doesn't make you weak. You know, I stand here before you. I can talk about my story. I can talk about things that I've been through. But if somebody were to approach me or somebody I love and it came down to a me or them, I would do. I would absolutely, you know, beat the brakes off them.

Jonathan Niziol:
Like, if I had to protect myself or somebody I love, I could absolutely do that. I could bench 300 pounds, whatever that means, like, and it doesn't change who you are. It doesn't make you weak. It's very important that we take our time and we realize that it's not a. It's not a women thing to do. It's not like, just for. It's not. It's just.

Jonathan Niziol:
It's a human thing that we all deal with. And it's very important to realize that, because, again, for the longest time, I was raised in a time when it was, like, wasn't talked about. And you just got on with life and you just pushed it down and just, you know, whatever you need to do. And you had a couple drinks after work, and then it becomes a couple drinks before work and stuff.

Jennifer Norman:
Yeah. You used a phrase at the top of the cast which was 'man up,' which I find really ironic, because it's like, what does that even mean?

Jonathan Niziol:
Exactly. Exactly. You're absolutely right. And it's like, there's, there's no, it's not a, it's not a gender thing. It's not an anything it's a human thing.

Jonathan Niziol:
It's something that, you know, we look at some of the most successful people, whatever your. Your idea of success is, and some of the things that they've been through. And I would also say, educate yourself. If you know that you're going through something and you talk to somebody and. And you, uh, you start to learn. Like, for me, it was anxiety and depression, and I was told that I have anxiety. Okay, so what does that mean? So I started to try to educate myself on that. Why is my body feeling a certain way? Why is my mind doing a certain.

Jonathan Niziol:
And to really, like, go farther with it, like, podcasts weren't. Weren't a thing, like, 20 years ago. And, you know, it was really hard to find information. And I have slowly learned, and I'm always learning. We can never stop learning that you need the tools and you need to gain the tools. And that comes from talking to people, listening to things, trying things yourself. Yeah. It's all about having the tools and just putting them into practice.

Jonathan Niziol:
And I don't. If I could go back and talk to 21 year old Jonathan, I wouldn't. I wouldn't say don't drink. I wouldn't say don't do drugs. I wouldn't say. I wouldn't say. Say any of that. I would say, it's gonna be hard.

Jonathan Niziol:
It's gonna take a very long time, but you are gonna get through it, because that's the one thing I didn't think for the longest time, is, I'm never gonna get through this, man. Like, I am never gonna get through this. So I would definitely. And like I said, I wouldn't change a thing, because this may be who I am, and I'm proud of the things that I've been through. And I've realized now that vulnerability is not weakness. A lot of men think being vulnerable means you're weak. Vulnerability is power. The first time I talked about this stuff, and I put it online and put it out there, I went to the gym, and my anxiety was through the roof.

Jonathan Niziol:
Cause I was like, everybody's gonna look at me. And they did, but from a good perspective. And the next time I went to hockey, I'm like, I'm gonna walk in the locker room. These guys are thinking. They did look at me differently, but a couple of the guys pulled me aside. They were like, hey, man, that was really cool what you put, like, what you put online. And, like, I'm dealing with some stuff, too. And, like, you know, that's just really cool of you.

Jonathan Niziol:
Like, that's not an easy thing to do. So vulnerability is power. Vulnerability is not weakness or shame. So I think that was. I would say that it's just, yeah, just do your thing.

Jennifer Norman:
And isn't it amazing how heart opening is to have those kinds of real connections where it's like, yeah, I see you. I know, I get it. I feel it. And actually, I'm going through something, too. And it's not like we're trauma bonding, but it's just like, you know, it's that, you know, I love you. It's really just an act and a kindness of love, and it's a gesture on your part of, like, showing yourself for who you really are. And not necessarily, of course, there's always that concern, what are people going to think of me? But once we get past that and we're like, you know, what if we don't think about what people are going to think of you and you just know that the right people are going to get the message, the right people are going to respond in the way that is going to, you know, continue to propagate healing and a better way forward and support the continued support. I can honestly say I know that you're, you're a very big advocate for therapy, as am I.

Jennifer Norman:
I know it is hard to find a very good therapist. Yes, I know that a lot of people with very insurance or whether or not you have insurance, it's hard to find the one that fits you. And I'm actually going through that process right now myself because it's always important to find somebody that can, can coach you no matter where you are in your journey. You know, I think experts always need more experts. You know, people who are always into self improvement will always seek out ways to continue their own self improvement. And so don't give up. You know, it may be a trial and error. Referrals can sometimes help if it's not a conflict of interest.

Jennifer Norman:
But being able to go through the healing journey with the support of a guide or a counselor or a coach or professional is helpful. Having support groups among your peers is also helpful so long as you can see a way forward. Like I said, you know, there is a time and a place to sit in grief and to sit in pain. The hope is that we can lift ourselves out it and heal from that and see ourselves on a continued journey, however it may ebb and however it may flow, but that it's always going to get better. You know, just over the long run. You see yourself thriving, you see yourself happy, you see yourself healthy and you see yourself with growing, blossoming relationships that are really, really strong.

Jonathan Niziol:
No, you're absolutely right. That is so well said. And the thing I would say, too is with regard to therapy, and the first thing I always say is go speak to a medical professional, but we don't all have access to medical professional. It is expensive. It is like, I understand that, you know, if you are fortunate enough to then definitely do, if not confide in somebody, you know, just start talking, just start, you know, find somebody who you think you can believe you can trust and, or like you said, lean on the resources that you have, like this podcast or whomever and. Yeah, yeah, I think it's, I think it's an extremely important thing. And then you're right. Find the right person that works for you because that's, you know, a lot of different therapists are, have different ways of, and we all, you know, we have to kind of mesh and just, you know, has to work and we have to be able to learn.

Jonathan Niziol:
And I went to therapy with the idea of like, I want to gain the tools to then be able to go forward and live my life. I don't want to just have to call my therapist every time that I, you know, I need to make a decision or something happen. And I still go to therapy. I haven't been in a while, but I have a therapist now here in Texas. It's more of just like a check in. I go to the gym six days a week. I mean, I'm taking care of my physical health. It's like, yeah, I'm gonna make a priority and do that and make my mental health a priority as well.

Jennifer Norman:
And one thing I want to part with, because I saw a quote that you had on your social media, which to me was very, very striking. And that is, "Here's the thing, it's okay. It's okay to admit that life isn't great all the time. It's okay to struggle, even when you're the one giving out advice. We're all human, after all, wanting to keep it real and always being authentic. Thought it was important to share." And I think that that is so meaningful because there are going to always be dark days in our lives and there are going to be struggles. And it's kind of like the idea that we're not trying to be happy, positive people 24/7 that is never going to be realistic.

Jennifer Norman:
It's not toxic positivity that we are after. It's about being real. It's about knowing that, you know, there are days where we're going to feel sad, we're going to feel lonely, we're going to feel anxious and anger. And that doesn't mean that you're living with it, and that is your life story. It means that you're going through a phase, and there's always bright days ahead. And so by remaining positive in terms of a trajectory, that is very, very different than trying to be positive and happy all the time. As a matter of fact, that's probably a bit of psychosis unto itself.

Jonathan Niziol:
I heard something. I heard Tom Cruise. No, it was Tom Hanks, one of the big Toms. He was sitting down. There was like a roundtable of actors and stuff. And I just caught this clip and they were like, what's something you wish you would have told your younger self? And he said, "This too shall pass.' He's like, you know, whatever. Whether you're going through the hardest time in your life, whether you're going through, you know, you just booked whatever blockbuster movie he's done.

Jonathan Niziol:
It's like, this too shall pass. Like, my life keeps moving forward and there's always tomorrow and there's always a chance. Like you said, this is not your, how you feel today is not your life story. It's going forward. That's this too shall I?

Jennifer Norman:
This too shall pass. Well, I'm so glad that you passed through my podcast. Jonathan Niziol, everybody. Please take a look. Follow him on social media. I'll put all of his links in the show notes so that you can find him. He could be your best buddy online, especially you guys who might need somebody who's in your corner. Thank you so much for being a beautiful human, Jonathan.

Jonathan Niziol:
Thank you, Jennifer. I appreciate you very much. And thanks for having me me. And, yeah, thanks for doing what you're doing. It's very wonderful and impactful.

Jennifer Norman:
Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Human Beauty Movement podcast. Be sure to follow, rate and review us wherever you stream podcasts. The human beauty movement is a community based platform that cultivates the beauty of humankind. Check out our workshops, find us on social media, and share our inspiration with all the beautiful humans in your life. Learn more@thehumanbeautymovement.com thank you so much for.